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Does this bother anyone else?
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Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Even though, or maybe because of, me not being a native speaker those small things bother me. Especially when a product or service should look professional on all levels. But I guess EOS doesn't care for that.
I'm not a native speaker either, and I know exactly what you mean. Every time I see someone say "could/should/would of" instead of "have" or the other popular mistakes like effect/affect, their/there/they're and your/you're, and I can be pretty certain it comes from a native speaker I can't help but die a little inside. Maybe it is because I have a bit of an obsession with grammar and spelling myself (I always edit my comments when I notice I've made a typo) but I really wonder how it is possible that so many native english speakers have such immense trouble with their own language. It's just really weird to me
Or the good ol' classic than/then.
"learnt" gets me every time1 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Written English makes very little sense, not least because just as spelling was being fixed English was shifting from old English to modern English, dropping most word flexion (keeping only the plural and the possessive) and undergoing phonetic changes. Also at that time Latin was used extensively in monastic/academic circles, and French in court. Modern spelling often reflects how words used to sound, but don't any more. For instance, "gaol" and "jail" now sound and mean exactly the same, but the "gaol" spelling is closer to how the word was pronounced when it was borrowed from the French. Long story short, I think English spelling is bad for natives because it has to be memorised almost word for word. As a native Portuguese speaker, I find that spelling is much closer to how a word sounds. Spanish is even closer, you can basically tell how any word is pronounced from how it's spelled.CassandraGemini wrote: »I really wonder how it is possible that so many native English speakers have such immense trouble with their own language. It's just really weird to me
As an aside, in my experience the French are the worst writers of their own native language. Far worse than English speakers. Word endings are essentially randomly determined on a case by case basis from one of the dozens of spellings that all sound the same, but even discounting that spelling in French websites is atrocious.
So I'm *not* the only one who learned Shakespearean English before proper Englisheklhaftb16_ESO wrote: »non-native speakers are learning the spoken and the written form at the same time (and some even learn solely by reading; for example, I learned my English mostly by playing Ultima
)
Looking back I don't even see how I could have understood half the dialogue in Ultima V, because I certainly didn't play with a dictionary in hand. Also, I'd say 99% of attempts in games or movies to fake medieval English make a blunder two words in. Hats off to the guys at Origin who wrote and proofread their extensive walls of text without mistaking a thy for a thee. 3 -
CassandraGemini✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Written English makes very little sense, not least because just as spelling was being fixed English was shifting from old English to modern English, dropping most word flexion (keeping only the plural and the possessive) and undergoing phonetic changes. Also at that time Latin was used extensively in monastic/academic circles, and French in court. Modern spelling often reflects how words used to sound, but don't any more. For instance, "gaol" and "jail" now sound and mean exactly the same, but the "gaol" spelling is closer to how the word was pronounced when it was borrowed from the French. Long story short, I think English spelling is bad for natives because it has to be memorised almost word for word. As a native Portuguese speaker, I find that spelling is much closer to how a word sounds. Spanish is even closer, you can basically tell how any word is pronounced from how it's spelled.CassandraGemini wrote: »I really wonder how it is possible that so many native English speakers have such immense trouble with their own language. It's just really weird to me
As an aside, in my experience the French are the worst writers of their own native language. Far worse than English speakers. Word endings are essentially randomly determined on a case by case basis from one of the dozens of spellings that all sound the same, but even discounting that spelling in French websites is atrocious.
You're absolutely right that english spelling and pronunciation of a word are often two very different things and that, therefore, a lot of words need to be actively memorised, because you're not really able to just go by sound. I guess what I just don't understand is, why this seems to make such a difference for native speakers. If we, as non-natives, can learn the language correctly, why can't the natives do it just as well? That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me and I have to admit that, in my mind, it kind of translates into a "just don't care" attitude.
Which is probably fine, I guess, if it doesn't spell any problems for people (pun intended). I just can't help but imagine what my boss and co-workers would think, if everything I write at work on a daily basis was riddled with spelling and grammar mistakes. Nothing good, that's for sure. I know I would frown if I saw a presentation, for example, that had more than very few spelling/grammar errors where you could see that they're more than just typos. Maybe we just value these things higher here, I don't know.
Edited for bad quoting.Edited by CassandraGemini on February 7, 2020 5:57PMThis poor little Bosmer stealth passive had passionate friends and a big loving family!1 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Is the person who made the banner a native English speaker, or is that just something everyone is assuming because this branch of the company is based in the USA? For all we know, it could be someone who is not a native speaker, living and working in the USA.
Either way, I am not particularly bothered by it. Forgetting the "I before E except after C" rule is a common slip-up even among the best of writers, and can happen even when you are watching for it. It is also not easily noticed (in my opinion) unless you are looking for it, or especially sensitive to language and writing. Everyone makes mistakes, even those working for large companies.
Edited by ArchangelIsraphel on February 7, 2020 6:29PMLegends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die1 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess no one got the updated memo:
"I before E, especially in RECIEVE."
One of my personal pet peeves is when people mix up "then" and "than."
Also, if you "could care less," it means that do you care, at least somewhat, since it's possible for you to care less than you do.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum full of requests for nerfs, complaints about nerfs, and RIP messages about the servers.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!3 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ah, it's the 'i' before 'e' except after 'c' rule they teach you in grade school.CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
Aigym_Hlervu✭✭✭✭✭I think the primary function of any language is mental with the communicative one being secondary. I'm not sure most of you here understand German, though I hope you'll find this 2 minutes video clear enough without any interpretation (you will though, because English is simply very deformed German, haha
):
Nevertheless, I think Russian is the most interesting and worthy language to study. I have translated all the further examples literally to make you feel it. Three letters: "Э, а я?!" ([ae, a: ya?!]) means "Hey, and what about me?!". Five consecutive letters: "Где ёж?" ([gde yozh]) means "Where is the hedgehog?". "Pie" is a singular noun there, but "half a pie" is a plural one ("Where is my pie?", but "Where are my half a pie?"). You ask a Russian: "Would you like a cup of tea?", he answers to you: "Yes maybe no" or "Yes no maybe". He's not kidding - that answer means "No". An uncertain form of "No". And a long list of those absolutely sentient phrases: "Make the fire more silent", "Drive silently" (i.e. carefully), "The Old New Year", "Liquid armchair" (diarrhea) and so on. "You're very smart" is not always a compliment, "You're smart very" is a mockery and "You're too smart" is a threat. Grammar tenses: "I am walking yesterday/tomorrow in the street" is an absolutely correct phrase in spite of it's variant. "Koza" and "Kozyol" are female and male goats. But "Osa" and "Osyol" are a wasp and a donkey respectively. Both "goat" and "donkey" are also used as rude words with the first word meaning a man of lousy behaviour and the latter - simply a dumb one. Russian items are not simply somewhere - they often do something: a plate stands on the table, but lies on the floor. Vice versa a boot lies on the table, but stands on the floor.
So, whatever language we speak, first it defines our mental structure, our way of thinking. If we want to understand each other better, we need to learn other languages, so we could either speak and think the same way.
- I understand the semantics of the question, but I absolutely ignore it's point.
- Could you give an example of it?
- Yes, I could. Edited by Aigym_Hlervu on February 8, 2020 2:36AM3 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭From a German perspective, and living in the United States for 25+ years, I still find it weird when words with ei make 'EE' sound and ie make 'I' and 'ay' sounds. ie is 'EE' and ei is 'I'!!!Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.1 -
Loulong✭✭✭It appears to be corrected in the newest launcher.
So some people can now breathe a sigh of relief while it doesn't seem to matter to others.
I did find this thread rather interesting, so thanks to everyone who commented! (And thanks for not turning it into a big ugly mess, like some other recent threads!)4 -
CassandraGemini✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »I think the primary function of any language is mental with the communicative one being secondary. I'm not sure most of you here understand German, though I hope you'll find this 2 minutes video clear enough without any interpretation (you will though, because English is simply very deformed German, haha): Nice, thank you, made me feel right at home. This is not just a problem that foreign learners have, though, many, many Germans have trouble with their own language as well - which I don't understand either, but then I come from a multilingual family, so maybe that made things easier for me. "D' Bus" is something I practically hear every day (I live in the "Ruhrgebiet", in case you're German, too ) from people who are definitely German themselves, so yeah. More often than not, when I hear Germans trying to speak English, I can't help but go as well.
Me, personally, I almost prefer English over German in my everyday life, because everything is so short and to the point. For example in English you can just say: "frown", when in German we have to describe it as: "Die Stirn in Falten legen". Same thing with "shrug", which translates to: "Mit den Schultern zucken".
Obviously that makes German a great language to describe things at length, since it is very expressive and it can also sound beautiful in poetry, but English is just so much more practical (and don't get me wrong, I find the Shakespearean English to be absolutely beautiful as well, but of course we don't really see or hear that anymore in contemporary works - for the most part anyway).This poor little Bosmer stealth passive had passionate friends and a big loving family!3 -
LMar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I reported it in-game the second day the announcement came out :P"If a stick of fish is a fish stick, it will stick like other fish sticks stick"
"Taller races now sit in chairs correctly"2 -
Edited by thissocalledflower on February 9, 2020 8:55AMAfter careful consideration (and oh! so much deliberation) we have concluded that you circumstance sounds too much like a l2p issue for it to be just a mere coincidence.2 -
Ermiq✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, in the world we live in people don't understand the difference between "couldn't care less" and "could care less". So, I'm not surprised by this type of misspelling.
By the way, as a non-English speaker, I myself write "recieve" very often, because to me it seems like it corresponds to the way the word is pronounced. Maybe now I'll finally start to write it correctly.
However, advertisement presents a company to some extent, and when you see such things in official ads and offerings, it's a shame.One of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the whole world or just me.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
Sick&tired of being kicked off from your house when you complete a dungeon? ComingBackHome addon is what you need!
Me is russian little bad in english :b4 -
Grandesdar✭✭✭But you can still read it anyawys, rgiht? That's the beuaty of English.Main: The Charismatic StamDK DD
Side: A Handsome Warden Healer
Side: (upcoming) Stam Necro DD
CP: 680
EU PSN: Style35131 -
Aigym_Hlervu✭✭✭✭✭CassandraGemini wrote: »Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »I think the primary function of any language is mental with the communicative one being secondary. I'm not sure most of you here understand German, though I hope you'll find this 2 minutes video clear enough without any interpretation (you will though, because English is simply very deformed German, haha): Nice, thank you, made me feel right at home. This is not just a problem that foreign learners have, though, many, many Germans have trouble with their own language as well - which I don't understand either, but then I come from a multilingual family, so maybe that made things easier for me. "D' Bus" is something I practically hear every day (I live in the "Ruhrgebiet", in case you're German, too ) from people who are definitely German themselves, so yeah. More often than not, when I hear Germans trying to speak English, I can't help but go as well.
Me, personally, I almost prefer English over German in my everyday life, because everything is so short and to the point. For example in English you can just say: "frown", when in German we have to describe it as: "Die Stirn in Falten legen". Same thing with "shrug", which translates to: "Mit den Schultern zucken".
Obviously that makes German a great language to describe things at length, since it is very expressive and it can also sound beautiful in poetry, but English is just so much more practical (and don't get me wrong, I find the Shakespearean English to be absolutely beautiful as well, but of course we don't really see or hear that anymore in contemporary works - for the most part anyway).
You're welcome, Cassandra
. Nice to meet someone who understands that typically German feature here. Translation and interpretation are one of my trades, also hobbies I use to translate different poems and songs - I see how the classical poems are translated into different languages and sometimes it's enough to raise my hair.. Shakespear, Goethe, Alexander Pushkin, Percy Shelley, Lord Byron.. Pushkin's poetry translated into English is the most weird - it's most popular translations are made just the same way newspaper articles are written.. Percy Shelley's is another example of it - I've spent too much time to pick up right German words and expressions to keep it's original spirit of "Ozymandias". But the Robert Plant's "Kashmir" is the poem I like the most - too short and unexpressive words of that Led Zeppelin English lyrics translated properly make a real masterpiece of Plant's work exactly being a non-English version. So yes, German is a great language, but my experience shows that it is only a form of mental expression. Lucky are those who speak several languages for they are able to shape their thoughts better.Well, in the world we live in people don't understand the difference between "couldn't care less" and "could care less".
This reminded me of the pot: "The pot is cooling down for too long" or is it "The pot is not cooling down for too long" ? Edited by Aigym_Hlervu on February 8, 2020 5:51PM2 -
Aigym_Hlervu✭✭✭✭✭Grandesdar wrote: »But you can still read it anyawys, rgiht? That's the beuaty of English.
That's not only English feature which shows us this language's beauty, trust me on that. You just have to keep the first and the last letters at their places and you will still be able to easily read it. It's a mental, not a language specific feature. Edited by Aigym_Hlervu on February 8, 2020 6:32PM4 -
Brandathorbel✭✭✭✭✭The one that bothers me that so many people do is spelling losing as loosing. Or using loose for lose. Alcast website it littered with it.2
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The one that bothers me that so many people do is spelling losing as loosing. Or using loose for lose. Alcast website it littered with it.
Is bothers me when people get it and is mixed up. 1 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The one that bothers me that so many people do is spelling losing as loosing. Or using loose for lose. Alcast website it littered with it.
I'm fairly certain that it's not his native language. No matter what his native language is, he speaks mine far better than I do his.
It bothers me less than the DOT meta and the abrupt shift back, but I did notice it.1 -
Grandesdar✭✭✭The one that bothers me that so many people do is spelling losing as loosing. Or using loose for lose. Alcast website it littered with it.
There are so many wrong things with Alcast's website, that extra o should be the least of his worries tbh.Main: The Charismatic StamDK DD
Side: A Handsome Warden Healer
Side: (upcoming) Stam Necro DD
CP: 680
EU PSN: Style35133 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Even though, or maybe because of, me not being a native speaker those small things bother me. Especially when a product or service should look professional on all levels. But I guess EOS doesn't care for that.
I'm not a native speaker either, and I know exactly what you mean. Every time I see someone say "could/should/would of" instead of "have" or the other popular mistakes like effect/affect, their/there/they're and your/you're, and I can be pretty certain it comes from a native speaker I can't help but die a little inside. Maybe it is because I have a bit of an obsession with grammar and spelling myself (I always edit my comments when I notice I've made a typo) but I really wonder how it is possible that so many native english speakers have such immense trouble with their own language. It's just really weird to me
Or the good ol' classic than/then.
"learnt" gets me every time
Learnt is absolutely valid in England - you know, where people speak English (because it's England...see how that works?). Same applies for other non-American English-speaking countries (Canada, Australia, et al). Indeed, one - who is not American - might say Americans spell the past-tense form of "learn" incorrectly.
In any case, spell-check would have helped here.2 -
Kahlis✭✭
Lies!barney2525 wrote: »
https://washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/28/the-i-before-e-except-after-c-rule-is-a-giant-lie/Edited by Kahlis on February 8, 2020 7:09PM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21uhFCljlU
