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Preventing Internet gaming disorder (gaming disorder)
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BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭Spaceroamer wrote: »I’m curious, for those who support this, what would you do if you want if this went through?
The post is about the gaming disorder, you can't be for or against a disorder.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
A group of psychologists get together from time to time and decide what is a disorder or not. Hyper Activity used to be a disorder, it no longer is now they call it something totally different. It's a blanket description now so that an entire class of drugs can then be prescribed. However, we now know that ADHD or Hyperactivity or attention deficit syndrome or whatever you might want to call it is really natures way of ensuring people move away from each other when populations become too dense. One of the best examples of this is cane toads in Australia, a gene flips in the next generation, the same in humans we have all these names for, that causes the toads to run miles and miles away from each other. So we know, for a fact, that what is called a syndrome really isn't.
It's still called a disorder, even though it is not, so yes you can argue against a disorder. You are wrong. A disorder as we are talking about here is only something that a certain group of people agree upon as being a disorder, and it's not unanimous opinion either. It's an opinion only. Pay attention, in the future it may morph into a different definition as almost all disorders do. It might end up being electronic disorder, or fall under social media disorder or any of a number of other disorders that are claimed by people who hold their degrees as proof they have the right to decide what is or is not a disorder.4 -
ArcVelarian✭✭✭✭✭I don't like doing long posts, this is a forum not a thesis, I'll keep the post short and simple.
Internet gaming disorder or gaming disorder is now identified by the World Health Organization as a health condition.
https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/
Even though the "gamer population" shows a big spectrum going from teens to retired people, the first category is the most vulnerable for obvious reasons.
It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!
Didn't find any topic about it, yet it is of high importance!
I'd rather have an addiction that allows me to interact with other people in a constructive fashion. That's just my two septims.Murphy's Law of PvP : If it can be abused and or exploited, it will be abused and or exploited.2 -
BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭
Which law are you talking about? there are no laws for gaming addiction... not yet!
There are also no laws for sugar addiction, not yet...
Or fast food addiction, or being overweight, maybe spoons need to come with a warning label and the manufactures of spoons need to be more conscious of the damage they do. At least 2.8 million people each year die as a result of being overweight or obese. Maybe those companies that manufacture food need to be more sensitive to the number of people whom they kill each year.
I would never advocate giving up any freedom, even how much time I am allowed to engage in gaming. No government entity or politician knows better what's best for me than I do myself. I don't know where or when it was when people started thinking other people need to tell them what to do so that they are mentally, emotionally or physically healthy, but it's absolutely crazy!
Anyway, there is nothing ZoS can do about this perceived problem with gaming disorder. If they prevented people from playing after so many hours, those people would just play another game. No law is going to stop people from playing games, that's absolutely crazy talk.
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BisDasBlutGefriert✭✭✭✭✭@Sorc, you're heart is definitely in the right place. But in my opinion, I feel that there isn't enough long term, and credible sources for more information on the subject to say certain industries should/shouldn't start making gaming addiction awareness more public.
Both sides can definitely have a convincing argument one way or the other. And in a case like this, both sides can be correct also, with the lack of said information.
I'm just a "filthy casual" so take it as you will.~There’s a positive in every negative. Sometimes the positive is harder to find than other times, but there is ALWAYS one there~0 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't like doing long posts, this is a forum not a thesis, I'll keep the post short and simple.
Internet gaming disorder or gaming disorder is now identified by the World Health Organization as a health condition.
https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/
Even though the "gamer population" shows a big spectrum going from teens to retired people, the first category is the most vulnerable for obvious reasons.
It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!
Didn't find any topic about it, yet it is of high importance!
When it comes to such things it falls upon the person/parents or care providers not the company.IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer1 -
IndianaJames7✭✭✭✭✭NordSwordnBoard wrote: »OP thanks for the interesting info. My opinion on industry self regulation fall under this gem:
"I was a recall coordinator. My job was to apply the formula. ... A new car built by my company leaves somewhere travelling at mph. The rear differential locks up. ... The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? ... Take the number of vehicles in the field, A. Multiply it by the probable rate of failure, B. Multiply the result by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A x B x C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."
Ahhh the pinto case xD1 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't like doing long posts, this is a forum not a thesis, I'll keep the post short and simple.
Internet gaming disorder or gaming disorder is now identified by the World Health Organization as a health condition.
https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/
Even though the "gamer population" shows a big spectrum going from teens to retired people, the first category is the most vulnerable for obvious reasons.
It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!
Didn't find any topic about it, yet it is of high importance!
When it comes to such things it falls upon the person/parents or care providers not the company.
No, it falls on both. Insisting it falls only on customers is how scams are born.2 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seems like every once a while someone is taking a college class and has to make a post about this.1 -
Guild Wars had a message telling you how long you had been online and that you should consider taking a break. ....3
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SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭- "Lack of Consensus Among Scholars on the Issue of Video Game 'Addiction' "
- "Nothing Clinically 'Wrong' With Obsessive Gamers"
- "Gaming Disorder classification is based on poor research"
All "gaming disorder" is in reality is non-gamers essentially thinking that everyone who plays a video game must have a screw loose or something. I've met a few people that think like this IRL and it's no real surprise that there will be some in the scientific field as well. There is nothing wrong with playing a video game and this whole "tiff" about gaming is just the modern version of "ViDeO gAmEs MaKe YoU ViOlEnT" as was advertised in the 90s and proven wrong a decade or so later. Research is already being conducted on whether it's real or not, as the classification was just based on 1 poor research on the subject matter. The only things that you can argue with in this is whether or not people that have an Addiction problem should play Video Games as they'll give you dopamine as well. Like asking whether a Gambling Addict play Video Games or not is a perfect example of that. So again no, they have nothing to "prevent" or "worry about" outside of the Crown Crates, which as things are going they'll either have to remove them or simply make them in a manner so you cannot buy them with crowns or any form of digital currency that was obtained with irl currency. As the NHS is calling for a ban on loot boxes of all kinds and the governments are now starting to see whether they should or shouldn't ban them as there is currently a few bills in congress that will ban such practices, like this one. So yeah, if I was zenimax i'd prob remove Crown Crates before they face legal issues.
It's not that, though.
I am an addict- alcohol is/was my weapon of choice (six years alcohol-free next month, though I can no longer declare myself fully-sober due to things I'm about to explain).
I have no issues with loot boxes. I don't spend much actual money in-game (ok seriously though, I NEEDED that Z'en motif...), and I've not done enough gambling otherwise to make a determination on my potential to become addicted. I don't think I would. Anyway, my point is that I'm addicted to the game in other ways-
MMOs are designed to be addictive. I know that, and I was warned by my husband when I went into this. I went ahead with it anyway (bc I love TES) and man... it about ruined my life about a year ago (I mean, I don't blame ESO; this is me and the result of very conscious decisions I made knowing full well the potential for addiction). I played ESO instead of working, instead of spending time with my husband, and instead of running... as a result, I came very close to getting put on a pip at work, had serious marital issues, and became fully out of shape for the first time in over 15 years. All three situations were painful to dig myself out of, and I'm still working to regain trust with some people.
This isn't meant to be a sob story... I'm just trying to point out that people seem to be conflating "gambling disorder" with "gaming disorder". To me, gaming disorder = addiction = you cannot stop doing something even when faced with dire consequences.0 -
BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »
- "Lack of Consensus Among Scholars on the Issue of Video Game 'Addiction' "
- "Nothing Clinically 'Wrong' With Obsessive Gamers"
- "Gaming Disorder classification is based on poor research"
All "gaming disorder" is in reality is non-gamers essentially thinking that everyone who plays a video game must have a screw loose or something. I've met a few people that think like this IRL and it's no real surprise that there will be some in the scientific field as well. There is nothing wrong with playing a video game and this whole "tiff" about gaming is just the modern version of "ViDeO gAmEs MaKe YoU ViOlEnT" as was advertised in the 90s and proven wrong a decade or so later. Research is already being conducted on whether it's real or not, as the classification was just based on 1 poor research on the subject matter. The only things that you can argue with in this is whether or not people that have an Addiction problem should play Video Games as they'll give you dopamine as well. Like asking whether a Gambling Addict play Video Games or not is a perfect example of that. So again no, they have nothing to "prevent" or "worry about" outside of the Crown Crates, which as things are going they'll either have to remove them or simply make them in a manner so you cannot buy them with crowns or any form of digital currency that was obtained with irl currency. As the NHS is calling for a ban on loot boxes of all kinds and the governments are now starting to see whether they should or shouldn't ban them as there is currently a few bills in congress that will ban such practices, like this one. So yeah, if I was zenimax i'd prob remove Crown Crates before they face legal issues.
It's not that, though.
I am an addict- alcohol is/was my weapon of choice (six years alcohol-free next month, though I can no longer declare myself fully-sober due to things I'm about to explain).
I have no issues with loot boxes. I don't spend much actual money in-game (ok seriously though, I NEEDED that Z'en motif...), and I've not done enough gambling otherwise to make a determination on my potential to become addicted. I don't think I would. Anyway, my point is that I'm addicted to the game in other ways-
MMOs are designed to be addictive. I know that, and I was warned by my husband when I went into this. I went ahead with it anyway (bc I love TES) and man... it about ruined my life about a year ago (I mean, I don't blame ESO; this is me and the result of very conscious decisions I made knowing full well the potential for addiction). I played ESO instead of working, instead of spending time with my husband, and instead of running... as a result, I came very close to getting put on a pip at work, had serious marital issues, and became fully out of shape for the first time in over 15 years. All three situations were painful to dig myself out of, and I'm still working to regain trust with some people.
This isn't meant to be a sob story... I'm just trying to point out that people seem to be conflating "gambling disorder" with "gaming disorder". To me, gaming disorder = addiction = you cannot stop doing something even when faced with dire consequences.
Alcoholism is a sickness, if you are an alcoholic that means you have a genetic predisposition to be so, before you ever take your first drink you are an alcoholic if the right genes are turned on. Gaming is very different, it can be an addiction but you are not genetically predisposed to have a gaming addiction. You might have an addictive personality, you may more easily become addicted to certain things but alcoholism and gaming addiction are very different things. You also cannot say that you are no longer sober because you have a gaming addiction. I know what 12 step programs claim you must think or how you must see things but it simply is not the case. Addiction is very different from alcoholism, however both are addressed by AA, the belief is that if you give into addiction that you will give in to alcoholism. I imagine you did not need to go through the 12 steps to reduce the amount of time you invested in gaming.
The other thing is that with Alcoholism, you have to discontinue it totally, did you discontinue gaming totally? Two very different things.
You said that your husband warned you but you went ahead and do it anyway. You said you knew what you were doing, you knew it was affecting your work, you knew it was affecting the time you otherwise would spend with your husband, you knew you were not running/exercising but you still played the game.
If ZoS had a timer that warned you, or a warning when you logged in, or any other warning none would have been as clear as not working, not exercising, not spending time with your husband. In no way could ZoS do a better job of letting you know that you were spending too much time playing ESO than what was going on in your life already.
If you took an EEG of a human brain while that person was gambling, or playing a game, or doing any other activity that a person might be addicted to like checking their social media or texting or reading news etc, you would find that while other parts of the brain might show activity the part of the brain that relates to addiction would be active in each of the scans. So in this example, gambling addiction and gaming addiction can be considered the same. If you are talking about loot boxes being addictive as being different from gaming addiction in a literal sense, well okay they are different but they affect the same part of the brain that has to do with addiction.
My point is that no matter what ZoS does, no matter what any Government does, a person who is addicted is addicted. That person is not going to stop unless they decide themselves to do so.1 -
IndianaJames7✭✭✭✭✭BackStabeth wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »
- "Lack of Consensus Among Scholars on the Issue of Video Game 'Addiction' "
- "Nothing Clinically 'Wrong' With Obsessive Gamers"
- "Gaming Disorder classification is based on poor research"
All "gaming disorder" is in reality is non-gamers essentially thinking that everyone who plays a video game must have a screw loose or something. I've met a few people that think like this IRL and it's no real surprise that there will be some in the scientific field as well. There is nothing wrong with playing a video game and this whole "tiff" about gaming is just the modern version of "ViDeO gAmEs MaKe YoU ViOlEnT" as was advertised in the 90s and proven wrong a decade or so later. Research is already being conducted on whether it's real or not, as the classification was just based on 1 poor research on the subject matter. The only things that you can argue with in this is whether or not people that have an Addiction problem should play Video Games as they'll give you dopamine as well. Like asking whether a Gambling Addict play Video Games or not is a perfect example of that. So again no, they have nothing to "prevent" or "worry about" outside of the Crown Crates, which as things are going they'll either have to remove them or simply make them in a manner so you cannot buy them with crowns or any form of digital currency that was obtained with irl currency. As the NHS is calling for a ban on loot boxes of all kinds and the governments are now starting to see whether they should or shouldn't ban them as there is currently a few bills in congress that will ban such practices, like this one. So yeah, if I was zenimax i'd prob remove Crown Crates before they face legal issues.
It's not that, though.
I am an addict- alcohol is/was my weapon of choice (six years alcohol-free next month, though I can no longer declare myself fully-sober due to things I'm about to explain).
I have no issues with loot boxes. I don't spend much actual money in-game (ok seriously though, I NEEDED that Z'en motif...), and I've not done enough gambling otherwise to make a determination on my potential to become addicted. I don't think I would. Anyway, my point is that I'm addicted to the game in other ways-
MMOs are designed to be addictive. I know that, and I was warned by my husband when I went into this. I went ahead with it anyway (bc I love TES) and man... it about ruined my life about a year ago (I mean, I don't blame ESO; this is me and the result of very conscious decisions I made knowing full well the potential for addiction). I played ESO instead of working, instead of spending time with my husband, and instead of running... as a result, I came very close to getting put on a pip at work, had serious marital issues, and became fully out of shape for the first time in over 15 years. All three situations were painful to dig myself out of, and I'm still working to regain trust with some people.
This isn't meant to be a sob story... I'm just trying to point out that people seem to be conflating "gambling disorder" with "gaming disorder". To me, gaming disorder = addiction = you cannot stop doing something even when faced with dire consequences.
Alcoholism is a sickness, if you are an alcoholic that means you have a genetic predisposition to be so, before you ever take your first drink you are an alcoholic if the right genes are turned on. Gaming is very different, it can be an addiction but you are not genetically predisposed to have a gaming addiction. You might have an addictive personality, you may more easily become addicted to certain things but alcoholism and gaming addiction are very different things. You also cannot say that you are no longer sober because you have a gaming addiction. I know what 12 step programs claim you must think or how you must see things but it simply is not the case. Addiction is very different from alcoholism, however both are addressed by AA, the belief is that if you give into addiction that you will give in to alcoholism. I imagine you did not need to go through the 12 steps to reduce the amount of time you invested in gaming.
The other thing is that with Alcoholism, you have to discontinue it totally, did you discontinue gaming totally? Two very different things.
You said that your husband warned you but you went ahead and do it anyway. You said you knew what you were doing, you knew it was affecting your work, you knew it was affecting the time you otherwise would spend with your husband, you knew you were not running/exercising but you still played the game.
If ZoS had a timer that warned you, or a warning when you logged in, or any other warning none would have been as clear as not working, not exercising, not spending time with your husband. In no way could ZoS do a better job of letting you know that you were spending too much time playing ESO than what was going on in your life already.
If you took an EEG of a human brain while that person was gambling, or playing a game, or doing any other activity that a person might be addicted to like checking their social media or texting or reading news etc, you would find that while other parts of the brain might show activity the part of the brain that relates to addiction would be active in each of the scans. So in this example, gambling addiction and gaming addiction can be considered the same. If you are talking about loot boxes being addictive as being different from gaming addiction in a literal sense, well okay they are different but they affect the same part of the brain that has to do with addiction.
My point is that no matter what ZoS does, no matter what any Government does, a person who is addicted is addicted. That person is not going to stop unless they decide themselves to do so.
I don’t think that’s how alcoholism works... I’ve got a few people on one side of my family that are/were severe alcoholics. I get my drinking superpowers from them... but while I have inherited these genes... I have not in any way struggled with addiction. I think a lot of it has to do with your own mental state and situation that leads you to destructive behaviours in the first place.0 -
ZOS_GregoryVmodGreetings all,
After reviewing the thread, it would seem that it has run its course and is now going down hill. So to help avoid any potential Flaming and Baiting, or any other troubles, we have decided to close it down.
Thank you all for your understanding,
-Greg-Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on February 7, 2020 3:45AMThe Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkEThis discussion has been closed.