Preventing Internet gaming disorder (gaming disorder)

Sorc

1mirg wrote: »

1. "Lack of Consensus Among Scholars on the Issue of Video Game 'Addiction' "
2. "Nothing Clinically 'Wrong' With Obsessive Gamers"
3. "Gaming Disorder classification is based on poor research"

All "gaming disorder" is in reality is non-gamers essentially thinking that everyone who plays a video game must have a screw loose or something. I've met a few people that think like this IRL and it's no real surprise that there will be some in the scientific field as well. There is nothing wrong with playing a video game and this whole "tiff" about gaming is just the modern version of "ViDeO gAmEs MaKe YoU ViOlEnT" as was advertised in the 90s and proven wrong a decade or so later. Research is already being conducted on whether it's real or not, as the classification was just based on 1 poor research on the subject matter. The only things that you can argue with in this is whether or not people that have an Addiction problem should play Video Games as they'll give you dopamine as well. Like asking whether a Gambling Addict play Video Games or not is a perfect example of that. So again no, they have nothing to "prevent" or "worry about" outside of the Crown Crates, which as things are going they'll either have to remove them or simply make them in a manner so you cannot buy them with crowns or any form of digital currency that was obtained with irl currency. As the NHS is calling for a ban on loot boxes of all kinds and the governments are now starting to see whether they should or shouldn't ban them as there is currently a few bills in congress that will ban such practices, like this one. So yeah, if I was zenimax i'd prob remove Crown Crates before they face legal issues.

You passed your time looking for links to try to contradict a disorder that does exist and is recognised by the WHO?
Did you even read what you linked or did you just read the titles? and You sent a link from "metro"?

It is fallacious to try to twist facts only to get some recognition.

All posts aren't meant to create a debate and win arguments

Hallothiel

Sorc wrote: »

1mirg wrote: »

1. "Lack of Consensus Among Scholars on the Issue of Video Game 'Addiction' "
2. "Nothing Clinically 'Wrong' With Obsessive Gamers"
3. "Gaming Disorder classification is based on poor research"

All "gaming disorder" is in reality is non-gamers essentially thinking that everyone who plays a video game must have a screw loose or something. I've met a few people that think like this IRL and it's no real surprise that there will be some in the scientific field as well. There is nothing wrong with playing a video game and this whole "tiff" about gaming is just the modern version of "ViDeO gAmEs MaKe YoU ViOlEnT" as was advertised in the 90s and proven wrong a decade or so later. Research is already being conducted on whether it's real or not, as the classification was just based on 1 poor research on the subject matter. The only things that you can argue with in this is whether or not people that have an Addiction problem should play Video Games as they'll give you dopamine as well. Like asking whether a Gambling Addict play Video Games or not is a perfect example of that. So again no, they have nothing to "prevent" or "worry about" outside of the Crown Crates, which as things are going they'll either have to remove them or simply make them in a manner so you cannot buy them with crowns or any form of digital currency that was obtained with irl currency. As the NHS is calling for a ban on loot boxes of all kinds and the governments are now starting to see whether they should or shouldn't ban them as there is currently a few bills in congress that will ban such practices, like this one. So yeah, if I was zenimax i'd prob remove Crown Crates before they face legal issues.

You passed your time looking for links to try to contradict a disorder that does exist and is recognised by the WHO?
Did you even read what you linked or did you just read the titles? and You sent a link from "metro"?

It is fallacious to try to twist facts only to get some recognition.

All posts aren't meant to create a debate and win arguments

It’s not about winning arguments but showing that this ‘disorder’ is not accepted by quite a significant amount of relevant professionals.

Having read the link you provided, I was unimpressed at the rather nebulous terms and vague description of the ‘disorder’, and disappointed that the WHO would put out something so ill-defined.

I am wary of the tendency to want to name & medicalise some behaviours, particularly when involving mental health concerns. This is not to deny their existence - just about the value of such an approach.

January1171

"Gaming disorder is defined in the 11th Revision of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-11) as a pattern of gaming behavior (“digital-gaming” or “video-gaming”) characterized by impaired control over gaming, increasing priority given to gaming over other activities to the extent that gaming takes precedence over other interests and daily activities, and continuation or escalation of gaming despite the occurrence of negative consequences.

For gaming disorder to be diagnosed, the behaviour pattern must be of sufficient severity to result in significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational or other important areas of functioning and would normally have been evident for at least 12 months."

Sounds pretty specific to me

TheFM

Nestor wrote: »

I would rather be addicted to Video Games than to TV...

TV actually rots y our brain, video games stimulate it =D.

Sorc

It’s not about winning arguments but showing that this ‘disorder’ is not accepted by quite a significant amount

Having read the link you provided, I was unimpressed at the rather nebulous terms and vague description of the ‘disorder’, and disappointed that the WHO would put out something so ill-defined.

I am wary of the tendency to want to name & medicalise some behaviours, particularly when involving mental health concerns. This is not to deny their existence - just about the value of such an approach.

Your comment contradicts itself :

"showing that this ‘disorder’ is not accepted by quite a significant amount of relevant professionals" of relevant professionals.

This is not to deny their existence - just about the value of such an approach

The post wasn't meant to impress anyone, it is relating a fact.

1mirg

Sorc wrote: »

You passed your time looking for links to try to contradict a disorder that does exist and is recognised by the WHO?
Did you even read what you linked or did you just read the titles? and You sent a link from "metro"?

It is fallacious to try to twist facts only to get some recognition.

All posts aren't meant to create a debate and win arguments

The only thing I did was state fact and I hate to break it to you, but the classification is still under debate in the medical field to the point where many hospitals and psych wards don't classify someone as such due to the uncertain nature of the classification. If you want to read it yourself on the controversy involved with this classification you can read it yourself here:

Gaming disorder is recognized by the World Health Organization’s ICD-11 manual, a diagnostic manual not in widespread use yet around the world. It is not recognized by the American Psychiatric Association as a mental disorder diagnosis, and therefore is not covered by most people’s health insurance.

In an interview with CNN, Anthony Bean, a licensed psychologist has his doubts about whether gaming behavior should be a primary diagnosis. “”It’s a little bit premature to label this as a diagnosis,” Bean said. “I’m a clinician and a researcher, so I see people who play video games and believe themselves to be on the lines of addicted.” In his experience, they’re actually using gaming “more as a coping mechanism for either anxiety or depression.” Forthcoming research shows that gaming is a secondary diagnosis in coping with a primary diagnosis of anxiety and depression, Bean said: “When anxiety and depression is dealt with, the gaming goes down significantly.”

If you just go by the WHO classifications whenever they classify something, especially when they release a classification that only has an poorly executed research paper backing it up. Then this will become the 1920s where doctors use leaches and maggots instead of needles and gauze.

My post isn't meant to create debate, it's meant to state facts young one

SosRuvaak

its a pass time hobby....gaming which is fun, isnt actually productive in general.
you can get things like carpal tunnel from too much gaming as well.

a keen sense of introspection and an understanding of addiction goes a long way in self mental care. i think you have to have good mental health to be able to have good physical health.

understanding that you are a person who is easily addicted to things is probably the first step to any prevention of disorders like this...beyond that i dont think theres much help other than finding a different hobby, or to envelope yourself in work or study.
Distract yourself in a way thats productive or healthy for your life. Force yourself if you have to, tell yourself youre doing something you hate for the better of yourself. Addiction is something everyone in our society deals with, it becomes harder to avoid the more you let it go.
Maybe it takes someone else to help ᵒʳ ᵈʳᵘᵍˢ

Sorc

@1mirg

My post isn't meant to create debate, it's meant to state facts young one

This is very common in fora you're far from being the first one to do it: to try to mimic someone's phrasing to discredit them and sound smart.
All to try to acquire some satisfaction? --> I'm sure you can find plenty of other ways to get some satisfation

If you just go by the WHO classifications whenever they classify something, especially when they release a classification that only has an poorly executed research paper backing it up. Then this will become the 1920s where doctors use leaches and maggots instead of needles and gauze.

1- classification doesn't mean that the disorder doesn't exist dictionary.
2- your only argument is to question the WHO? we can go far with questioning everything you know.
Maybe the earth is flat eh?

Mancombe_Nosehair

I think it was Baldurs Gate which had the message, "don't forget to eat! We don't want to lose any dedicated players".

Chicharron

Sorc wrote: »

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it.

lol

For ZOS we are only the number X customer, who spends X money on the game, his interest is that you spend as much time as possible in his game and if you can, spend money.

World of Tanks was my first MMO and I became addicted to it, returning from work, barely seeing my wife, just the "Hello" and starting to play, until one day arriving from work I found my computer and a bag with clothes at the door of my house.

When we talked she told me all the problems that the game had caused me.

At that moment I understood that I had a problem.

I don't blame Wargaming for the problems that World of Tanks caused me, it's stupid to blame others for your own problems, I blame myself for being so selfish and not realizing that I hurt people who loved me for my addiction to the game.

Sorc

Chicharron wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it.

lol

For ZOS we are only the number X customer, who spends X money on the game, his interest is that you spend as much time as possible in his game and if you can spend money.

World of Tanks was my first MMO and I became addicted to it, returning from work, barely seeing my wife, just the "Hello" and starting to play, until one day arriving from work I found my computer and a bag with clothes at the door of my house.

When we talked she told me all the problems that the game had caused me.

At that moment I understood that I had a problem.

I don't blame Wargaming for the problems that World of Tanks caused me, it's stupid to blame others for your own problems.

I blame myself for being so selfish and not realizing that I hurt people who loved me for my addiction to the game.

I'm sorry to hear that.

vamp_emily

I'm a recovering gaming addict, not by choice. It has been 42 days ( and 6 hours, 17 min, and 21 sec ) since I played ESO.

How do I feel? I feel good but there is a part of me that wants to snipe the electric company that won't do their job, and the cable guy who won't connect my cable until the electric guy moves a cable.

jm42

I am officially addicted to games, because I spend most of my free time gaming, it is the reason to become "addicted" in my country. let's look closer:
when I come home after work I have about 2-3 free hours before sleep. I dont have any physical strength to go somewhere to hang out and I am really tired of communicating with ppl at work, so I just have meal with my husband and go to my computer to relax in games.
One of my 2 days off a week I spend cleaning my flat and then again playing games all day, because again I want to relax and just do NOTHING, totally chilling with my computer and communicate only with my husband. next day I can go somewhere to see friends or parents, and sometimes I don't.
So pls, leave me and other working class introverts alone with our so-called "addiction"

Sorc

jm42 wrote: »

I am officially addicted to games, because I spend most of my free time gaming, it is the reason to become "addicted" in my country. let's look closer:
when I come home after work I have about 2-3 free hours before sleep. I dont have any physical strength to go somewhere to hang out and I am really tired of communicating with ppl at work, so I just have meal with my husband and go to my computer to relax in games.
One of my 2 days off a week I spend cleaning my flat and then again playing games all day, because again I want to relax and just do NOTHING, totally chilling with my computer and communicate only with my husband. next day I can go somewhere to see friends or parents, and sometimes I don't.
So pls, leave me and other working class introverts alone with our so-called "addiction"

O_o
Did I talk about you?

Mettaricana

daemonios wrote: »

Wrong place to discuss this. An MMO's life and blood (unfortunately) is tied to keeping players online as long as possible and coming back as often as possible. Item/XP/achievement farming, repeatable quests, daily rewards, they are all designed specifically to trigger your fear of missing out and make you come back. I've come to despise repeatable quests of any sort because of that, developers simply shift everything onto the quests themselves to work as a carrot, and so you find yourself and others coming back for the carrot and not for the gameplay. We should WANT to run the dungeons, not view them as a 30min+ chore you need to do for your keys or random dungeon XP. The chore mentality also explains much of the toxicity in PvE. People just want to get them done, and others can either help them or stand in their way.

I skip all dailies and just buy the special motif or trinket etc i have zero tolerance for bull**** quests like travel to x dungeon kill boss turn in quest crap or wait on world boss respawn etc. Not worth my time

RD065

I suppose anything can be addicting but I'm not sure we need ZO$ to step in. They want us to play and there's nothing wrong with that, they're a business. Instead of watching football I play a game. Instead of drinking I play a game. I see nothing wrong with it, it's very relaxing.

Katahdin

Guild Wars I had a message flash across the bottom of the screen that went something like:

"You have been playing for X hours, please log off"

Inaya

Whatever happpened to good old personal responsibility?

1mirg

Sorc wrote: »

1- classification doesn't mean that the disorder doesn't exist dictionary.
2- your only argument is to question the WHO? we can go far with questioning everything you know.
Maybe the earth is flat eh?

I provided you tons of links to quite a few research papers and even a news article to back what i'm saying and your only defense is going by what's written on the WHO and a dictionary?

Sorc wrote: »

@1mirg

My post isn't meant to create debate, it's meant to state facts young one

This is very common in fora you're far from being the first one to do it: to try to mimic someone's phrasing to discredit them and sound smart.
All to try to acquire some satisfaction? --> I'm sure you can find plenty of other ways to get some satisfation

you've literally done nothing to prove i'm wrong and all you have been doing is attack my very person instead of debating the topic at hand. Example:

Sorc wrote: »

You passed your time looking for links to try to contradict a disorder that does exist and is recognised by the WHO?
Did you even read what you linked or did you just read the titles? and You sent a link from "metro"?

It is fallacious to try to twist facts only to get some recognition.

All posts aren't meant to create a debate and win arguments

So yeah, this whole topic and debate here is proven to be a waste of my time. Now if you excuse me @Sorc I have better things to do.

SosRuvaak

Inaya wrote: »

Whatever happpened to good old personal responsibility?

thats the thing, there are people beyond that

Heimpai

Nestor wrote: »

I would rather be addicted to Video Games than to TV...

True, when I watch TV it's with 1 other person.. I tend to play with a lot of people in games

xXMeowMeowXx

Sorc wrote: »

It’s not about winning arguments but showing that this ‘disorder’ is not accepted by quite a significant amount

Having read the link you provided, I was unimpressed at the rather nebulous terms and vague description of the ‘disorder’, and disappointed that the WHO would put out something so ill-defined.

I am wary of the tendency to want to name & medicalise some behaviours, particularly when involving mental health concerns. This is not to deny their existence - just about the value of such an approach.

Your comment contradicts itself :

"showing that this ‘disorder’ is not accepted by quite a significant amount of relevant professionals" of relevant professionals.

This is not to deny their existence - just about the value of such an approach

The post wasn't meant to impress anyone, it is relating a fact.

@Sorc

Then just keep the thread positive and ignore those that have nothing constructive to say.

I think this is a valid topic that should have empathy for anyone going through such a thing.

Addiction exists and the causes are many things but there is still a person, a real person suffering.

Just sayin’

ArchMikem

I can give you the one, and only one cause for this "disorder". Letting your kid play video games at a young age. Gaming computers weren't a thing when I was a child and I got my first original Xbox in Middle School simply for Halo:CE. To compare, the son of my Brother's GF is like, 8 or 9, and he plays freakin Fortnite. They let him voice chat too. That's, to me, insanely bad, but who am I to tell them how to parent?

jm42

ArchMikem wrote: »

To compare, the son of my Brother's GF is like, 8 or 9, and he plays freakin Fortnite. They let him voice chat too. That's, to me, insanely bad, but who am I to tell them how to parent?

maybe they are just glad to have him at home and not to worry what the street will teach him

Inaya

SosRuvaak wrote: »

Inaya wrote: »

Whatever happpened to good old personal responsibility?

thats the thing, there are people beyond that

Doesn't make it a disorder or addiction. Just makes it irresponsible or in the case of younger kids, bad parenting.

ArchMikem

jm42 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

To compare, the son of my Brother's GF is like, 8 or 9, and he plays freakin Fortnite. They let him voice chat too. That's, to me, insanely bad, but who am I to tell them how to parent?

maybe they are just glad to have him at home and not to worry what the street will teach him

The street? In a middle and upper class neighborhood at that age? I spent those years playing in the woods, making adventures, not shooting at people on a screen while exposing myself to online interactions with complete strangers of varying age.

Coppes

Sorc wrote: »

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I’m curious, for those who support this, what would you do if you want if this went through?

The post is about the gaming disorder, you can't be for or against a disorder.

I meant how would they want ZoS to implement the warning.

I can already tell this thread is going to end up like the “Lootboxes are gambling” thread.

NordSwordnBoard

OP thanks for the interesting info. My opinion on industry self regulation fall under this gem:

"I was a recall coordinator. My job was to apply the formula. ... A new car built by my company leaves somewhere travelling at mph. The rear differential locks up. ... The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? ... Take the number of vehicles in the field, A. Multiply it by the probable rate of failure, B. Multiply the result by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A x B x C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE

Chicharron

jm42 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

To compare, the son of my Brother's GF is like, 8 or 9, and he plays freakin Fortnite. They let him voice chat too. That's, to me, insanely bad, but who am I to tell them how to parent?

maybe they are just glad to have him at home and not to worry what the street will teach him

It was my grandfather who raised me, once I asked him why if he had the money he didn't send me to a private school instead of a public one, and he told me this:

You cannot live in a bubble, you have to know the real world, fight, know that you are not always going to win, there is a type of character that only the street can teach you, now, about education and good manners... I take care of.

I will be eternally grateful for that.

BackStabeth

Sorc wrote: »

I don't like doing long posts, this is a forum not a thesis, I'll keep the post short and simple.

Internet gaming disorder or gaming disorder is now identified by the World Health Organization as a health condition.
https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/
Even though the "gamer population" shows a big spectrum going from teens to retired people, the first category is the most vulnerable for obvious reasons.

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

Didn't find any topic about it, yet it is of high importance!

When you read what the WHO has to say about "Gaming Disorder" in the link you provided you realize that they are talking about a very, very small percentage of the total number of people who play video games.

When I worked as a bouncer, or what you might call nightclub security I worked under a old security expert who had been in that type of work for decades, he just hired/fired and ran security and didn't come out of his office often, mostly he just drank a lot. Then one day he was out in the bar preaching to people about drinking too much. He had become a member of AA and over night became an advocate against drinking alcohol of any type. Soon as the owner of the nightclub realized what was going on, he was fired.

Your post kinda reminds of that guy.

I am fairly certain that gaming disorder isn't nearly as invasive or serious as Social Media disorder. People are texting on their phones while driving, rabidly checking their Facebook pages, their tender, their twitter and the list goes on and on and on. Social Media has changed everything from dating, to our definition of what it means to be someone's friend. I guess Facebook and all the other social media platforms should but doing a lot more to ensure people don't spend too much time using them, but then again isn't that the who point? To encourage people to use social media as much as possible?

The Gambling industry should be doing far more to ensure people do not develop a gambling disorder. Considering the families it destroys alone, not to mention all the other negative things associated with it.

Point is, we can put bumpers on everything that people might harm themselves engaging in, protecting them from themselves but we would then be giving up our freedom of choice. It's up to each individual to ensure they do what's right for them. But demanding that any entity who's sole moral responsibility is to make their share holders more money, to do something that negatively affects that, is crazy. Entities who's intent is to make more profit, are not going to do anything that works against that intent. Should companies engaged in the gaming industry behave in a moral fashion as in the movie Ready Player One where they are limited to how many days of the week they can play a game? Perhaps, but considering how many far more serious problems and issues exist in the world, how many of those are disorders or considered to be so, I think our time, effort and energy might be better spent attempting to solve those problems seeing how they are far more serious than what you post here.

I'm not on board. I have been involved in online gaming since Ultima Online was beta, and playing games on computers since the 1970s, console games since the 1970s, pong on Atari when it first came out, in the 1970s, everything from text based ZORK and Adventure to quarter machines to pinball machines even before that. I have never personally seen or known anyone, in all that time, who had what might be called a gaming disorder. I have however known many people with gambling disorders, drinking, drugs, relationship and on and on and on.

I know what's best for me, I don't need someone else dictating my freedoms because they believe they know better what's best for me than I do myself. People make mistakes in life, they either over come those mistakes, live with them or they affect them differently. But nobody should be telling anyone what they should be doing with their time. That sounds suspiciously like politicians who believe they know what's better for people and acting upon it rather than listening to the will of the people instead.