Preventing Internet gaming disorder (gaming disorder)

Sorc

I don't like doing long posts, this is a forum not a thesis, I'll keep the post short and simple.

Internet gaming disorder or gaming disorder is now identified by the World Health Organization as a health condition.
https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/
Even though the "gamer population" shows a big spectrum going from teens to retired people, the first category is the most vulnerable for obvious reasons.

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

Didn't find any topic about it, yet it is of high importance!

Nestor

I would rather be addicted to Video Games than to TV...

daemonios

Wrong place to discuss this. An MMO's life and blood (unfortunately) is tied to keeping players online as long as possible and coming back as often as possible. Item/XP/achievement farming, repeatable quests, daily rewards, they are all designed specifically to trigger your fear of missing out and make you come back. I've come to despise repeatable quests of any sort because of that, developers simply shift everything onto the quests themselves to work as a carrot, and so you find yourself and others coming back for the carrot and not for the gameplay. We should WANT to run the dungeons, not view them as a 30min+ chore you need to do for your keys or random dungeon XP. The chore mentality also explains much of the toxicity in PvE. People just want to get them done, and others can either help them or stand in their way.

StormeReigns

Sorc wrote: »

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

Moderation. Everything is better in moderation. Also, depending on the state, as well country. There are laws in place to prevent this. Especially more so if the company at hand doesn't have, nor hold a licensed and registered physician that clients can seek help from publicly.

Look at Nevada for example. Casinos galore in Reno and Vegas. Each casino has multiple departments actually trained in identifying gambling addiction, and know where pamphlets are that offer help, free to paid. But state laws and county/city statues prevent from said employers to act on it. Could be due to the personal threat of being embarrassed, or dont want someone "being nosy" in theor own personal business. If someone did act upon it to address it, lawsuit often follows due to casinos not providing a physician that can diagnose and treat it.

Not to include that asking a company to take on a liability by addressing a situation that may or maynot have have real world consequences, oftentimes leads to worse plausibilities to take place. Especially when said company isnt equipped for it.

Sorc

daemonios wrote: »

Wrong place to discuss this. An MMO's life and blood (unfortunately) is tied to keeping players online as long as possible and coming back as often as possible. Item/XP/achievement farming, repeatable quests, daily rewards, they are all designed specifically to trigger your fear of missing out and make you come back. I've come to despise repeatable quests of any sort because of that, developers simply shift everything onto the quests themselves to work as a carrot, and so you find yourself and others coming back for the carrot and not for the gameplay. We should WANT to run the dungeons, not view them as a 30min+ chore you need to do for your keys or random dungeon XP. The chore mentality also explains much of the toxicity in PvE. People just want to get them done, and others can either help them or stand in their way.

Or maybe the best place...
You resumed basically the issues, the FOMO and how the game keeps you "hooked".

ZOS could be ahead of the curve and try to at least inform the players in order to prevent it.

Sorc

SkerKro wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

Moderation. Everything is better in moderation. Also, depending on the state, as well country. There are laws in place to prevent this. Especially more so if the company at hand doesn't have, nor hold a licensed and registered physician that clients can seek help from publicly.

Look at Nevada for example. Casinos galore in Reno and Vegas. Each casino has multiple departments actually trained in identifying gambling addiction, and know where pamphlets are that offer help, free to paid. But state laws and county/city statues prevent from said employers to act on it. Could be due to the personal threat of being embarrassed, or dont want someone "being nosy" in theor own personal business. If someone did act upon it to address it, lawsuit often follows due to casinos not providing a physician that can diagnose and treat it.

SkerKro wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

There are laws in place to prevent this. Especially more so if the company at hand doesn't have, nor hold a licensed and registered physician that clients can seek help from publicly.

Which law are you talking about? there are no laws for gaming addiction... not yet!

Asardes

Older people addicted to political talk shows on TV are way worse. I'd rather have them play a MMO than listen to some *** repeating the same sheer lies for hours on end and then vote for robber politicians afterwards. Not referring to a specific country, it's a general observation.

Sorc

@Asardes @SkerKro

Do we need to subtitute an addiction with another? what about not having any addiction at all?

StormeReigns

Sorc wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

Moderation. Everything is better in moderation. Also, depending on the state, as well country. There are laws in place to prevent this. Especially more so if the company at hand doesn't have, nor hold a licensed and registered physician that clients can seek help from publicly.

Look at Nevada for example. Casinos galore in Reno and Vegas. Each casino has multiple departments actually trained in identifying gambling addiction, and know where pamphlets are that offer help, free to paid. But state laws and county/city statues prevent from said employers to act on it. Could be due to the personal threat of being embarrassed, or dont want someone "being nosy" in theor own personal business. If someone did act upon it to address it, lawsuit often follows due to casinos not providing a physician that can diagnose and treat it.

SkerKro wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

There are laws in place to prevent this. Especially more so if the company at hand doesn't have, nor hold a licensed and registered physician that clients can seek help from publicly.

Which law are you talking about? there are no laws for gaming addiction... not yet!

There are statues in place Nevada that prevent local and national companies to approach and make person(s) aware of said problems without first providing a signed (by said additc) and approved on sight medical diagnosis of said behavior first and evidence of said behavior is in fact a problem.

Casinos, with all their money, are not equipped to proactively have gamblers sign a random medical waiver, let alone want to keep on staff multiple medical examiners to diagnose a condition.

You are asking ZoS to do the same. To proactively have their entire player base to be subjected to a medical screening and diagnosis if they want to or not. ZoS isn't a medical company, nor are they equipped to house them to treat thousands or more players that may or maynot show any signs of a disorder.

Friends and Family are the ones who need to be made aware of these things to act upon it. They are the ones who need to know the signs more than a gaming company.

Coppes

This thread acts as if people actually listen to warnings.

StormeReigns

It's not that I am against the idea. It needs to be done realistically.

This is why interventions are things. This is why we lay more trust on family and friends.

If ZoS, in your approach stated I may show signs of IGD, I would seek legal help before medical. Due to, I did not sign nor agree to have ZoS diagnosis me with out my consent.

Coppes

SkerKro wrote: »

It's not that I am against the idea. It needs to be done realistically.

This is why interventions are things. This is why we lay more trust on family and friends.

If ZoS, in your approach stated I may show signs of IGD, I would seek legal help before medical. Due to, I did not sign nor agree to have ZoS diagnosis me with out my consent.

Isn’t that why the TOS is there?

Sorc

SkerKro wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

Moderation. Everything is better in moderation. Also, depending on the state, as well country. There are laws in place to prevent this. Especially more so if the company at hand doesn't have, nor hold a licensed and registered physician that clients can seek help from publicly.

Look at Nevada for example. Casinos galore in Reno and Vegas. Each casino has multiple departments actually trained in identifying gambling addiction, and know where pamphlets are that offer help, free to paid. But state laws and county/city statues prevent from said employers to act on it. Could be due to the personal threat of being embarrassed, or dont want someone "being nosy" in theor own personal business. If someone did act upon it to address it, lawsuit often follows due to casinos not providing a physician that can diagnose and treat it.

SkerKro wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

There are laws in place to prevent this. Especially more so if the company at hand doesn't have, nor hold a licensed and registered physician that clients can seek help from publicly.

Which law are you talking about? there are no laws for gaming addiction... not yet!

There are statues in place Nevada that prevent local and national companies to approach and make person(s) aware of said problems without first providing a signed (by said additc) and approved on sight medical diagnosis of said behavior first and evidence of said behavior is in fact a problem.

Casinos, with all their money, are not equipped to proactively have gamblers sign a random medical waiver, let alone want to keep on staff multiple medical examiners to diagnose a condition.

You are asking ZoS to do the same. To proactively have their entire player base to be subjected to a medical screening and diagnosis if they want to or not. ZoS isn't a medical company, nor are they equipped to house them to treat thousands or more players that may or maynot show any signs of a disorder.

Friends and Family are the ones who need to be made aware of these things to act upon it. They are the ones who need to know the signs more than a gaming company.

In which part of my post did you see me asking for a medical screening?

And about laws, again, there are no laws for game addiction. None!

What I'm saying is pretty simple: there is a recognized pathology that needs prevention!

Sorc

SkerKro wrote: »

It's not that I am against the idea. It needs to be done realistically.

This is why interventions are things. This is why we lay more trust on family and friends.

If ZoS, in your approach stated I may show signs of IGD, I would seek legal help before medical. Due to, I did not sign nor agree to have ZoS diagnosis me with out my consent.

Did I give any solution to talk about what is realistic or not?

It's up to ZOS to find one along with professionals. Not up to me!

Sorc

Spaceroamer wrote: »

This thread acts as if people actually listen to warnings.

No, it is simply a thread to expose an issue. Nothing more!

AlienSlof

SkerKro wrote: »

Moderation. Everything is better in moderation.

So much this. Moderation is the key to a healthy life.

Addicts will be addicts whatever their fix is. Such is human nature, like violence.

SidraWillowsky

Sorc wrote: »

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

This is an MMO though, so it's not- these games are designed to be as addictive as possible, so it's not part of the strategy to say "hey, this game is designed to keep you hooked and wanting to play and that's how we bring the money in buuuuuuut... moderation!". They don't want moderation. It's like asking an alcohol company to put warnings on bottles about the potential for addiction (not gonna happen unless it's mandated by law).

Not saying that I don't think this should happen or that I disagree with you, just that it's not in the spirit of MMOs to encourage moderation.

Reverb

It’s actually not in a game studio’s best interest to prevent it. It may be in humanity’s best interest, and the morality police could argue that’s their ethical obligation to society, but it’s to no advantage to Zeni, or any other game studio, to prevent gaming addiction.

Just as with nicotine, alcohol, pain pills, credit card spending, and all other manner of addiction and overindulgence, it is the individual’s responsibility to know the risks, behave responsibly, and seek out help if needed.

Never ask a for-profit corporation to take more responsibility for your well being than you are willing to do for yourself.

Sorc

Reverb wrote: »

It’s actually not in a game studio’s best interest to prevent it. It may be in humanity’s best interest, and the morality police could argue that’s their ethical obligation to society, but it’s to no advantage to Zeni, or any other game studio, to prevent gaming addiction.

Just as with nicotine, alcohol, pain pills, credit card spending, and all other manner of addiction and overindulgence, it is the individual’s responsibility to know the risks, behave responsibly, and seek out help if needed.

Never ask a for-profit corporation to take more responsibility for your well being than you are willing to do for yourself.

Am I naive? no!

Reverb

Sorc wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

It’s actually not in a game studio’s best interest to prevent it. It may be in humanity’s best interest, and the morality police could argue that’s their ethical obligation to society, but it’s to no advantage to Zeni, or any other game studio, to prevent gaming addiction.

Just as with nicotine, alcohol, pain pills, credit card spending, and all other manner of addiction and overindulgence, it is the individual’s responsibility to know the risks, behave responsibly, and seek out help if needed.

Never ask a for-profit corporation to take more responsibility for your well being than you are willing to do for yourself.

Am I naive? no!

Did I say you were? No!

Sorc

Reverb wrote: »

Sorc wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

It’s actually not in a game studio’s best interest to prevent it. It may be in humanity’s best interest, and the morality police could argue that’s their ethical obligation to society, but it’s to no advantage to Zeni, or any other game studio, to prevent gaming addiction.

Just as with nicotine, alcohol, pain pills, credit card spending, and all other manner of addiction and overindulgence, it is the individual’s responsibility to know the risks, behave responsibly, and seek out help if needed.

Never ask a for-profit corporation to take more responsibility for your well being than you are willing to do for yourself.

Am I naive? no!

Did I say you were? No!

I didn't mean it as a passive/aggressive answer, I meant that I agreed with what you said about not expecting much from a corporation concerning its greed for profit.

MEBengalsFan2001

Sorc wrote: »

I don't like doing long posts, this is a forum not a thesis, I'll keep the post short and simple.

Internet gaming disorder or gaming disorder is now identified by the World Health Organization as a health condition.
https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/
Even though the "gamer population" shows a big spectrum going from teens to retired people, the first category is the most vulnerable for obvious reasons.

It would be in ZOS's best interest to try to prevent it - at least by informing the clients - the gamer's health should be a priority!

Didn't find any topic about it, yet it is of high importance!

They need to focus on the the real problem facing people and that is the addiction. Certain people are more prone to addictive type of behavior; this includes gambling, gaming, drinking, etc... these individuals are preyed upon by companies that generate revenue off these addictive behavior. It helps drive up revenue/sales. At the same time, these same companies typically will post adds or other material about how to get help if you are prone to having addictive behavior.

It is a two edged sword for MMOs because as someone else pointed out they want you online, they profit more from player playing more and buying items, etc... The thing is though, they also need to ensure that their player base does not form this addictive behavior to ensure that they live outside of the game and have jobs, etc.. to pay for the game and any item in the game the player wants.

If you know you are more likely prone to having an addictive type of behavior, I recommend picking up something healthier like exercising, a sport, etc.. these at least can allow the person to stay physically healthy.

Sorc

@MEBengalsFan2001

It is a two edged sword for MMOs because as someone else pointed out they want you online, they profit more from player playing more and buying items, etc... The thing is though, they also need to ensure that their player base does not form this addictive behavior to ensure that they live outside of the game and have jobs, etc.. to pay for the game and any item in the game the player wants.

If you know you are more likely prone to having an addictive type of behavior, I recommend picking up something healthier like exercising, a sport, etc.. these at least can allow the person to stay physically healthy.

The money they get isn't only from people buying things online but mainly from the data they get from every single player, the way you play, when you're angry, when you're bored, your habits...
Those data are far more precious and they are used for marketing

Slimebrow

Unfortunately this isn't the company who would support these things, you don't have to look for into ZOS to realize that.
On the upside GW2 are rasing awareness with people with mental health disorder: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-friend-ships-2020/
Check it for yourself.

xXMeowMeowXx

Sorc wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Wrong place to discuss this. An MMO's life and blood (unfortunately) is tied to keeping players online as long as possible and coming back as often as possible. Item/XP/achievement farming, repeatable quests, daily rewards, they are all designed specifically to trigger your fear of missing out and make you come back. I've come to despise repeatable quests of any sort because of that, developers simply shift everything onto the quests themselves to work as a carrot, and so you find yourself and others coming back for the carrot and not for the gameplay. We should WANT to run the dungeons, not view them as a 30min+ chore you need to do for your keys or random dungeon XP. The chore mentality also explains much of the toxicity in PvE. People just want to get them done, and others can either help them or stand in their way.

Or maybe the best place...
You resumed basically the issues, the FOMO and how the game keeps you "hooked".

ZOS could be ahead of the curve and try to at least inform the players in order to prevent it.

They do with nonsensical nerfs....jk and not really

Still....OP has an interesting point and I agree that it is an important topic to be discussed.

Who knows it may help some peeps on here.

Sorc

Flubbles wrote: »

Unfortunately this isn't the company who would support these things, you don't have to look for into ZOS to realize that.
On the upside GW2 are rasing awareness with people with mental health disorder: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-friend-ships-2020/
Check it for yourself.

They're talking about mental diseases not about the specific discorder generated by...gaming.

And just because I have put a thread about an issue, doesn't mean that I'm personally concerned.

I'm pointing out something that is in the public's interest.

Coppes

I’m curious, for those who support this, what would you do if you want if this went through?

Sorc

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I’m curious, for those who support this, what would you do if you want if this went through?

The post is about the gaming disorder, you can't be for or against a disorder.

1mirg

1. "Lack of Consensus Among Scholars on the Issue of Video Game 'Addiction' "
2. "Nothing Clinically 'Wrong' With Obsessive Gamers"
3. "Gaming Disorder classification is based on poor research"

All "gaming disorder" is in reality is non-gamers essentially thinking that everyone who plays a video game must have a screw loose or something. I've met a few people that think like this IRL and it's no real surprise that there will be some in the scientific field as well. There is nothing wrong with playing a video game and this whole "tiff" about gaming is just the modern version of "ViDeO gAmEs MaKe YoU ViOlEnT" as was advertised in the 90s and proven wrong a decade or so later. Research is already being conducted on whether it's real or not, as the classification was just based on 1 poor research on the subject matter. The only things that you can argue with in this is whether or not people that have an Addiction problem should play Video Games as they'll give you dopamine as well. Like asking whether a Gambling Addict play Video Games or not is a perfect example of that. So again no, they have nothing to "prevent" or "worry about" outside of the Crown Crates, which as things are going they'll either have to remove them or simply make them in a manner so you cannot buy them with crowns or any form of digital currency that was obtained with irl currency. As the NHS is calling for a ban on loot boxes of all kinds and the governments are now starting to see whether they should or shouldn't ban them as there is currently a few bills in congress that will ban such practices, like this one. So yeah, if I was zenimax i'd prob remove Crown Crates before they face legal issues.

IndianaJames7

As long as you put RL first, I don’t see the issue with spending as much time as you want gaming... if you are playing video games in place of your actual responsibilities, that is when it is a problem.

January1171

1mirg wrote: »

1. "Lack of Consensus Among Scholars on the Issue of Video Game 'Addiction' "
2. "Nothing Clinically 'Wrong' With Obsessive Gamers"
3. "Gaming Disorder classification is based on poor research"

All "gaming disorder" is in reality is non-gamers essentially thinking that everyone who plays a video game must have a screw loose or something. I've met a few people that think like this IRL and it's no real surprise that there will be some in the scientific field as well. There is nothing wrong with playing a video game and this whole "tiff" about gaming is just the modern version of "ViDeO gAmEs MaKe YoU ViOlEnT" as was advertised in the 90s and proven wrong a decade or so later. Research is already being conducted on whether it's real or not, as the classification was just based on 1 poor research on the subject matter. The only things that you can argue with in this is whether or not people that have an Addiction problem should play Video Games as they'll give you dopamine as well. Like asking whether a Gambling Addict play Video Games or not is a perfect example of that. So again no, they have nothing to "prevent" or "worry about" outside of the Crown Crates, which as things are going they'll either have to remove them or simply make them in a manner so you cannot buy them with crowns or any form of digital currency that was obtained with irl currency. As the NHS is calling for a ban on loot boxes of all kinds and the governments are now starting to see whether they should or shouldn't ban them as there is currently a few bills in congress that will ban such practices, like this one. So yeah, if I was zenimax i'd prob remove Crown Crates before they face legal issues.

That's not what the classification is. "Gaming disorder" is not people who play games a lot, it's when people play games to the point where it's detrimental to the rest of their life (and that pattern is in place for at least 12 months). I.e. Playing games to the point where they don't show up for work and get fired.