Dungeon certificate, and advanced tutorial

Kombinator

I don't know how, but i see so many people with high champion level, and skill of a newbie. I mean these guys reached over 300 champion level without ever doing dungeons, or bought their accounts. Regardless it would be nice to put some quest, that forces you at least once on an account through an advanced tutorial.

Stuff like standing out from the red circles, and how to deal proper dps using skills+light attack, and a test, that you understood. When i see a DD dealing 6k. dps with over 200 champion level it's kinda pathetic. I can do 4k. in my tank gear, and skillset to single target, if no self defense required.

FierceSam

While I would never ‘force’ anyone to do anything in the game (principally because as a tactic it doesn’t work), I do wish ZOS would produce some in-game tutorials. There are many areas in the game that have steep learning curves and a good set of tutorials would help make them easier.

I did my first dungeon when I was CP 460 and obviously I was rubbish. And I stood in the red facing the boss because that’s what I had had to do in every single fight I’d ever had, from the first mob all the way to killing Molag Bal.

A tutorial would have helped. Crappy attitude from fellow players would not.

I’m not sure the “no standing in red” is a great example given the number of fights where stacking the entire group in red is actually the most effective strategy.

phermitgb

I'd love to see a brand new dungeon that goes through all the fundamental tactics we find in dungeons. Single boss, bosses with adds. Bosses with interrupts and blockables - bosses with red zones and red rings and anti-magic zones - all of which is tuned to very low dps, with high spikes, but no so high that they'll one-shot anyone with more than 15k health.

Basically, a trainer dungeon that has enough outgoing damage that you know when you've done something wrong, but won't kill you outright, giving you long enough to figure out each new mechanic.

to cover all the basic boss mechanics, we'd probably have to have at least 3 stages of each boss, each covering one new mechanic - we build a dungeon with 4 major bosses, that way we can get at least 12 of the most fundamental tactics, maybe even a couple of important ones more than once

It'd be light on trash - just enough trash to introduce you to the add mobs and what their tactics are like so that when you face them in a boss fight you'll already be familiar with the add swarms.

Along for the ride would be an NPC, shouting out the fundamental counter to each new mechanic - BLOCK HIS BIG ATTACK! Don't get caught in the ring of fire! INTERRUPT HIM NOW! You know, kind of like the basic combat tutorial, but...bigger stakes, and timing tuned to account for closer to an actual fight, and with multiple people.

It would not only be a nice introduction to combat in general, but a nice introduction to dungeons - throw in something like the level-up rewards, like a mid-range monster helm (not top tier, but not trash) and some set gear good for a leveling up character, and we'd have ourselves at least a better introduction to dungeoning.

maxjam

I've almost got 700cp, I enjoy solo questing, crafting and occasionally messing around in Cyrodiil - I have never done a group dungeon mainly because I'd probably get called 'kinda pathetic' by people like the OP.

I'm getting to old to take things to seriously or put up with people that demand (near) flawless runs through dungeons so I really can't be bothered.

I've done some of them solo but others are either to hard for my skill level or have mechanics that require more than 1 person. I'd guess I'd like to complete them all, if for nothing else than to get the achievements but everytime I read posts like this it just makes me more wary.

Kombinator

FierceSam wrote: »

A tutorial would have helped. Crappy attitude from fellow players would not.

I’m not sure the “no standing in red” is a great example given the number of fights where stacking the entire group in red is actually the most effective strategy.

By "forcing" i mean, that you could not queue for dungeons until you have done the tutorial quest. Instead of the group finder there would be a button to start it. For existing players it would check how many dungeon finished achievements are done, and if the number is great enough, then you can skip it.

Even on world you should learn certain basics. Such as using skills in right order, and basic tutorial should tell you the basic attacks between skills style. As for the red circles. Like in 99% of the cases, if you see a red circle, or line in a boss fight, then you want to avoid it. Or it will hurt you real bad.

The point is, that there should be an advanced tutorial to introduce how to deal GOOD damage, and pay attention to multiple stuff. For tank teaching, to turn the boss away from group, using taunt, de importance of health shields, and different buffs/debuffs, that helps survival, when to block, and when to run/dodge. Healers would given a try to separate attention in doing damage, and keeping everyone alive.

FierceSam

phermitgb wrote: »

I'd love to see a brand new dungeon that goes through all the fundamental tactics we find in dungeons. Single boss, bosses with adds. Bosses with interrupts and blockables - bosses with red zones and red rings and anti-magic zones - all of which is tuned to very low dps, with high spikes, but no so high that they'll one-shot anyone with more than 15k health.

Basically, a trainer dungeon that has enough outgoing damage that you know when you've done something wrong, but won't kill you outright, giving you long enough to figure out each new mechanic.

It’s a great idea, the key thing is it needs to be a teaching experience, which means coherent learning points and valid evaluation and feedback for the player. Otherwise you might as well just carry on and shove everyone into FG1, Spindle 1 or BC1. And that is going to be a hard job to develop.

Nothing can compare with the individual teaching you get on a good guild training run.

maxjam wrote: »

I've almost got 700cp, I enjoy solo questing, crafting and occasionally messing around in Cyrodiil - I have never done a group dungeon mainly because I'd probably get called 'kinda pathetic' by people like the OP.

I'm getting to old to take things to seriously or put up with people that demand (near) flawless runs through dungeons so I really can't be bothered.

I've done some of them solo but others are either to hard for my skill level or have mechanics that require more than 1 person. I'd guess I'd like to complete them all, if for nothing else than to get the achievements but everytime I read posts like this it just makes me more wary.

I totally get where you are coming from (basically me at CP 460). But there are many, many guilds out there who can provide a cool environment in which to get into dungeons and, despite the impression you’ll get reading the forums, relatively few miserable players in dungeons (especially in normal ones). Use the Guild Finder to find a guild that sounds like it’s you and have a go. If you can already solo some you’ll find tons of players happy to join you.

Good luck and have fun

pilsbury65

I’m sitting at CP 975 and mostly Solo quest. I pop in and out of Cyrodiil. Now I know I am not a brilliant player when it come to dungeons and PVP. I have run a few dungeons solo and amazed myself that I got through them.
Now to make it compulsory to take a test to see if you are good enough, well that is a Nono from me
A couple of training dungeons on the other hand would be a good idea.

One thing that frustrates me about these posts is that I think people do not consider everyone’s circumstances.
I am a grandmother and will be 70 later this year. My reactions are not as fast as when I was twenty. I play this game as it takes me away from reality. Have played it since launch on the Xbox.
Anyway all I’m trying to say is not every player can be brilliant. Some of us just play for fun.

Cheers
Kath

Geekgirl

You'd have absolute fits if you ever ended up in a PUG with my husband and me, OP.

I DPS, he heals/tanks. Usually he does both at once and he absolutely LIVES for pushing the envelope.

He LOVES it when I stand in the fire/in front of the big attacks so that he can push his healing and see if he can get me through it. We often try to duo group bosses just to work on this.

I don't think we're "poor" players, quite often we make it through stuff others get boggled by but that's mostly because we *don't* typically play the way folk say we "should" or need to. And as such, we expect to be able to do much more than you'd think, and as such we try more than/do things that others just scratch their heads over. I run a lot of "pet armor", he's a healy tank in mostly light armor and with a resto staff, neither of us have the meta gear or meta builds...

That said, I don't pull this garbage while in a group he's not in, and we don't *deliberately* try to wipe/ruin others experiences. But we do love to push that envelope, and quite often it's the "Veteran" players (CP 500+) who freak out and bail on us, while the newer players tend to stick it out and go with the flow.

I find, a lot of times, that the high CP players take things WAAAAY too seriously and forget that this is a game...

Anyway, you red circle standing, off-gear wearing, non-meta build freaks -- come find the hubs and I in game. We'll do stupid stuff with you.

dan958

maxjam wrote: »

I've almost got 700cp, I enjoy solo questing, crafting and occasionally messing around in Cyrodiil - I have never done a group dungeon mainly because I'd probably get called 'kinda pathetic' by people like the OP.

I'm getting to old to take things to seriously or put up with people that demand (near) flawless runs through dungeons so I really can't be bothered.

I've done some of them solo but others are either to hard for my skill level or have mechanics that require more than 1 person. I'd guess I'd like to complete them all, if for nothing else than to get the achievements but everytime I read posts like this it just makes me more wary.

I agree. I do not have much experience with dungeons, but I would hate for people to judge my lack of dungeon knowledge based on my CP level (in 600s). I try and read up on dungeons as I am playing a random one so that I try and know the mechanics of the bosses, but sometimes I'll screw up, and thats okay. If people don't want to deal with a 'noob', they should run with their own group.

I'm not against extra tutorials being added to the game though, anything to help players is great.

RD065

54 here and disabled. And I have arthritis in my hands. I play for fun and I can say I'm just an average player. I don't do many dungeons because people yell at me :-) Instead of helping they just yell at me.

Kombinator

pilsbury65 wrote: »

I’m sitting at CP 975 and mostly Solo quest. I pop in and out of Cyrodiil. Now I know I am not a brilliant player when it come to dungeons and PVP. I have run a few dungeons solo and amazed myself that I got through them.
Now to make it compulsory to take a test to see if you are good enough, well that is a Nono from me
A couple of training dungeons on the other hand would be a good idea.

One thing that frustrates me about these posts is that I think people do not consider everyone’s circumstances.
I am a grandmother and will be 70 later this year. My reactions are not as fast as when I was twenty. I play this game as it takes me away from reality. Have played it since launch on the Xbox.
Anyway all I’m trying to say is not every player can be brilliant. Some of us just play for fun.

Cheers
Kath

No one expects to run a marathon with one leg, but if you apply for it, then don't blame them for your lack of preparations.

Problem is, that the big guys can carry you on the low dungeons. Giving you the illusion, that you are doing good. If you were not able to go random without at least once doing a tutorial, that tells you stuff, then you wouldn't have this illusion.

And if you don't want it, then you are still free to do all the solo content regardless. No one will shame you for it. It's your game, and your choice.

Kombinator

dan958 wrote: »

maxjam wrote: »

I've almost got 700cp, I enjoy solo questing, crafting and occasionally messing around in Cyrodiil - I have never done a group dungeon mainly because I'd probably get called 'kinda pathetic' by people like the OP.

I'm getting to old to take things to seriously or put up with people that demand (near) flawless runs through dungeons so I really can't be bothered.

I've done some of them solo but others are either to hard for my skill level or have mechanics that require more than 1 person. I'd guess I'd like to complete them all, if for nothing else than to get the achievements but everytime I read posts like this it just makes me more wary.

I agree. I do not have much experience with dungeons, but I would hate for people to judge my lack of dungeon knowledge based on my CP level (in 600s). I try and read up on dungeons as I am playing a random one so that I try and know the mechanics of the bosses, but sometimes I'll screw up, and thats okay. If people don't want to deal with a 'noob', they should run with their own group.

I'm not against extra tutorials being added to the game though, anything to help players is great.

There is a difference between knowing boss mechanics, and being good at your role in general. If you can't deal 10k. damage in full epic gear as DD, then you do something seriously wrong. Regardless, if it's a Banished Cells 1, or a Frost Vault.

But now that i think about it a separated level system could work too. Dungeon level would define which dungeon you can queue to, or be thrown as random. It would give no stats, or skill, but simply show how experienced you are in dungeons. Also each dungeon would have an upper limit. So if say Banished Cells goes up to lvl10, then doing it again would give no more dungeon XP.

Still a minimal tutorial about doing GOOD dps should be added. I see people using 1 skill, then replenish with heavy attack. Ignoring other skills, that could help, and not using light attack between skills. Or healer standing around doing nothing, because no heal required at the moment. Dude switch staff, and help the damage!

gatekeeper13

You cant expect people to be prepared for anything if you havent given them a clue on anything. Someone may be cp 500 and do 10k dps. How can this guy know how to do more dps when there is no explanation anywhere about how the game works. Someone may do 10k dps and not know its inadequate. ZOS built a messy champion system without giving inexperienced players a clue on how to invest their points.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Kombinator wrote: »

I don't know how, but i see so many people with high champion level, and skill of a newbie. I mean these guys reached over 300 champion level without ever doing dungeons, or bought their accounts.

Sir, I am about to go ******** for accusing me of such things just cuz you are incapable of properly playing your character and instead blame every1 else and we should be punished by the mentality of "if im bad then make the game bad for everyone so I feel good".
And in case you wonder, It takes you 4 hours to grind from lvl 1 to cp 810, 8 hours if you are a lonely and slow roleplayer.
Good Day.

Kombinator

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

You cant expect people to be prepared for anything if you havent given them a clue on anything. Someone may be cp 500 and do 10k dps. How can this guy know how to do more dps when there is no explanation anywhere about how the game works. Someone may do 10k dps and not know its inadequate. ZOS built a messy champion system without giving inexperienced players a clue on how to invest their points.

That's my post for. To give them a clue before allowing them to the dungeons. To teach them, what light attacks for, what heavy attacks for, what type of armor you should aim for, and at least one example of rotation.

As for champion points. Once you learned the mechanics it should be common sense to figure out at least a sub-optimal build, that is not total BS.

Example:

First let's start the basics. What is your role?
answers: DD
tank
healer.

(choosing DD)
DD stands for damage dealer. In this role your job is to deal GOOD damage while standing out from nasty stuff. Is this your role?
answers: yes
no

And so on.

redgreensunset

No. OP just stop pugging if getting into dungeons with people of very diverse skill levels bother you that much.

Kombinator

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

I don't know how, but i see so many people with high champion level, and skill of a newbie. I mean these guys reached over 300 champion level without ever doing dungeons, or bought their accounts.

Sir, I am about to go ******** for accusing me of such things just cuz you are incapable of properly playing your character and instead blame every1 else and we should be punished by the mentality of "if im bad then make the game bad for everyone so I feel good".
And in case you wonder, It takes you 4 hours to grind from lvl 1 to cp 810, 8 hours if you are a lonely and slow roleplayer.
Good Day.

Thx cap. now go and show me a youtube video about getting 810cp. in 4 hours, because i'm serously curious about it. I mean without spending on crow scrolls, and ambrosia.

I know, that i'm not perfect, but at least 1/3 of the dungeons we move like *** snails. People who have 0 idea about how to combine skills, how to use light attacks, wearing medium armor with stamina skills, and light armor with magicka skills. You can ignore all these *** on world, but you in vet. dungeons it seriously hurts the team. So swallow your pride of grinding, and start reading some guides.

My idea would solve this issue by forcing you to take on an advanced tutorial, that teaches these. That erase your illusion of power, and makes you realise, that your grinded levels are not skill.

Kombinator

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. OP just stop pugging if getting into dungeons with people of very diverse skill levels bother you that much.

So you saying, that teaching players is bad.

Agenericname

Kombinator wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. OP just stop pugging if getting into dungeons with people of very diverse skill levels bother you that much.

So you saying, that teaching players is bad.

Not at all. Forcing players, all players, to do something because a handful are bad, new, unskilled, etc. is though. There are better ways to teach.

I can't remember the last time I saw a dungeon where the group failed to clear it because the dps was too low. With a few exceptions there aren't many true dps checks in the dungeons. There are some, but not nearly the majority.

Browiseth

Agenericname wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. OP just stop pugging if getting into dungeons with people of very diverse skill levels bother you that much.

So you saying, that teaching players is bad.

Not at all. Forcing players, all players, to do something because a handful are bad, new, unskilled, etc. is though. There are better ways to teach.

I can't remember the last time I saw a dungeon where the group failed to clear it because the dps was too low. With a few exceptions there aren't many true dps checks in the dungeons. There are some, but not nearly the majority.

but i dont think OP is suggesting 'forcing' any player to do anything. OP is suggesting if a player wants to do dungeons they need to 'qualify' for it in some way

forcing would employ there is no choice for you to continue playing the video game elder scrolls online tamriel twelve without getting an A+ on your eso exam

in all fairness OP does use the word 'force' in their post but i think that's more a poor choice of words

AlnilamE

phermitgb wrote: »

I'd love to see a brand new dungeon that goes through all the fundamental tactics we find in dungeons. Single boss, bosses with adds. Bosses with interrupts and blockables - bosses with red zones and red rings and anti-magic zones - all of which is tuned to very low dps, with high spikes, but no so high that they'll one-shot anyone with more than 15k health.

Basically, a trainer dungeon that has enough outgoing damage that you know when you've done something wrong, but won't kill you outright, giving you long enough to figure out each new mechanic.

to cover all the basic boss mechanics, we'd probably have to have at least 3 stages of each boss, each covering one new mechanic - we build a dungeon with 4 major bosses, that way we can get at least 12 of the most fundamental tactics, maybe even a couple of important ones more than once

It'd be light on trash - just enough trash to introduce you to the add mobs and what their tactics are like so that when you face them in a boss fight you'll already be familiar with the add swarms.

Along for the ride would be an NPC, shouting out the fundamental counter to each new mechanic - BLOCK HIS BIG ATTACK! Don't get caught in the ring of fire! INTERRUPT HIM NOW! You know, kind of like the basic combat tutorial, but...bigger stakes, and timing tuned to account for closer to an actual fight, and with multiple people.

It would not only be a nice introduction to combat in general, but a nice introduction to dungeons - throw in something like the level-up rewards, like a mid-range monster helm (not top tier, but not trash) and some set gear good for a leveling up character, and we'd have ourselves at least a better introduction to dungeoning.

Um, that's what the base game dungeons in the first zones do. Fungal Grotto, Spindleclutch, Banished Cells. They all have simple mechanics and are forgiving. Then as you work your way up the zones, you get more involved mechanics.

Also, if you leave the Combat Cues on, it will actually show on the screen "old LMB + RMB" to interrupt, and block and so on.

KMarble

Kombinator wrote: »

I don't know how, but i see so many people with high champion level, and skill of a newbie. I mean these guys reached over 300 champion level without ever doing dungeons, or bought their accounts.

That's a bold accusation to make.

Everything we do in game gives us XP - the other day I leveled up a PvP skill by stealing from NPCs, for example. As I was leveling up my main, I dreaded how fast it was gaining levels because many people thing that big number = good player (or at least a player capable of doing harder content).

Kombinator wrote: »

But now that i think about it a separated level system could work too. Dungeon level would define which dungeon you can queue to, or be thrown as random. It would give no stats, or skill, but simply show how experienced you are in dungeons. Also each dungeon would have an upper limit. So if say Banished Cells goes up to lvl10, then doing it again would give no more dungeon XP.

Still a minimal tutorial about doing GOOD dps should be added. I see people using 1 skill, then replenish with heavy attack. Ignoring other skills, that could help, and not using light attack between skills. Or healer standing around doing nothing, because no heal required at the moment. Dude switch staff, and help the damage!

I'd love a separate "level" for dungeons. My first experiences in dungeons were awful, not because I was kicked out of group, or called names or anything like that.

Because I started doing dungeons at what is considered high CP, people assumed I'd done them before. I was always running after my group, not knowing what to do and completely clueless at how to behave.
The worse experience I had was the person who, when trying to calm me, said they would carry me through a dungeon. I don't want to be carried, I want to do my part.

Odovacar

Everyone plays the game in their own way. Do you honestly think ZOS would ever even for a millisecond consider this, lol?Also, why do you care OP? Anyone halfway decent usually plays with their buddies from guilds. Perma-puging is always a route for major frustration.

Agenericname

Browiseth wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. OP just stop pugging if getting into dungeons with people of very diverse skill levels bother you that much.

So you saying, that teaching players is bad.

Not at all. Forcing players, all players, to do something because a handful are bad, new, unskilled, etc. is though. There are better ways to teach.

I can't remember the last time I saw a dungeon where the group failed to clear it because the dps was too low. With a few exceptions there aren't many true dps checks in the dungeons. There are some, but not nearly the majority.

but i dont think OP is suggesting 'forcing' any player to do anything. OP is suggesting if a player wants to do dungeons they need to 'qualify' for it in some way

forcing would employ there is no choice for you to continue playing the video game elder scrolls online tamriel twelve without getting an A+ on your eso exam

in all fairness OP does use the word 'force' in their post but i think that's more a poor choice of words

It is gating content, or more specifically gating the use of an ingame function/tool, behind the test.

Qualify is tricky. Since very few of the dungeons have an actual DPS checks, what metric are we using? Some people are never going to be happy no matter how high the DPS. Some would insist on 30k since its reasonably easy to achieve, but not specifically required to complete the content. The truth is, most of those dungeons can be completed in a reasonable amount of time with obscenely low DPS, not as obscenely low as 4 digit, but much lower than the average.

Asking for a test that forced weaving light attacks would alienate a few players. There are quite a few that play without that. ZOS has acknowledged that they here to stay for the most part by adding it to some of the load screens and designing sets around it, but mandating that they be used in order to use a basic function in group content, I highly doubt that we would see that.

I'm all for helping people, but this isn't the way. I start by asking ZOS to pay more attention to these threads and less to streamer to get a good feel for how the game actually is the next time they pick up the nerf hammer.

NordSwordnBoard

I wish Wrothgar was free like IC. Maelstrom is scaled to 300-400 Cp IIRC, and is a decent test of mechanics, sustain and class knowledge. I know people who beat normal but couldn't pull over 12k dps on a dummy. I know people who beat vDoM with me who couldn't beat nMA. No test is going to fully qualify people, but I feel like Maelstrom Arena is a big stepping stone to evolving your character and your skill.

When people used to wait outside the dungeon door to form a group, sometimes you would get a quiz to see if you knew what you were doing. Or joining a zone callout for xyz role, at least answering if you know the content - at most linking achievements etc.

The finder gets some people carries and creates motley crews that wouldn't form otherwise to be successful. For all the multiple fails or kicks, that one time a person has a great experience because of you, kind of makes it worth it. I think a big part of the problem is rewards - the quest for max transmute per day gets people into hard modes or dungeons they can't handle. The hard mode gulf between FG1 and the newest DLC is huge, but the finder sees them as equal somehow. That's not a player issue - I think a separate que for DLC may serve us all better than training modules.

MEBengalsFan2001

As I stated in another post CP does equate to skill or knowledge of stuff. CP is simply progression of level. A player that runs around doing open world quest on many characters may have more CP than a player who may have played all of the dungeons and beaten them easily. There is also a difference between each player reaction time, role played, etc...

Reading this and reading other post about dungeons not needing healers or tanks clearly shows me that there is a gap in the community between experienced dungeon crawl players and those that focus mainly on open world content. I do a little bit of both but I do prefer grinding through dungeons. I'm not exactly 810 CP but I'm also not all that new to the game with having under 200 CP.

In fact I've been playing ESO since it launched on PS4. I remember the zones with levels. I remember the old Sorc pet builds, etc.. This game has greatly changed over the years. I remember my very first dungeon run in the old days when I hit level 15 or so. I also remember going back to that dungeon on my current main templar after 1T and not having an issue soloing it.

This game has many various features from crafting, creating a unique home, overland content, questing/story line, dungeons, trials, etc... With so much content there are so many types of players. The OP request won't resolve any issues.

I was in a Vet DLC dungeon (Falkreath Hold) and the player who Q'd as a tank was 810 Magika DPS (not tank) and stated this is an epic failure because we have a 475 CP healer. How about an epic failure because we don't have a tank because someone decided they were going to try to fake tank a Vet dungeon. I know the dungeon well enough to know that I didn't have time to deal with players who think a 475 CP isn't going to cut it through Falkreath Hold even though the issue had more to do with a lack of a tank.

Going back to my original point CP does not equate to skill or knowledge. It is just a number that shows how long we have played to gain that experience, nothing more or less.

Kombinator

Agenericname wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. OP just stop pugging if getting into dungeons with people of very diverse skill levels bother you that much.

So you saying, that teaching players is bad.

Not at all. Forcing players, all players, to do something because a handful are bad, new, unskilled, etc. is though. There are better ways to teach.

I can't remember the last time I saw a dungeon where the group failed to clear it because the dps was too low. With a few exceptions there aren't many true dps checks in the dungeons. There are some, but not nearly the majority.

but i dont think OP is suggesting 'forcing' any player to do anything. OP is suggesting if a player wants to do dungeons they need to 'qualify' for it in some way

forcing would employ there is no choice for you to continue playing the video game elder scrolls online tamriel twelve without getting an A+ on your eso exam

in all fairness OP does use the word 'force' in their post but i think that's more a poor choice of words

It is gating content, or more specifically gating the use of an ingame function/tool, behind the test.

Qualify is tricky. Since very few of the dungeons have an actual DPS checks, what metric are we using? Some people are never going to be happy no matter how high the DPS. Some would insist on 30k since its reasonably easy to achieve, but not specifically required to complete the content. The truth is, most of those dungeons can be completed in a reasonable amount of time with obscenely low DPS, not as obscenely low as 4 digit, but much lower than the average.

Asking for a test that forced weaving light attacks would alienate a few players. There are quite a few that play without that. ZOS has acknowledged that they here to stay for the most part by adding it to some of the load screens and designing sets around it, but mandating that they be used in order to use a basic function in group content, I highly doubt that we would see that.

I'm all for helping people, but this isn't the way. I start by asking ZOS to pay more attention to these threads and less to streamer to get a good feel for how the game actually is the next time they pick up the nerf hammer.

In my test you would given specified gear, and skillbar. Meaning, that ONLY your personal skill would matter. Nothing more, and nothing less. An NPC would be there to explain stuff, but you couldn't do it, if you have no idea how the game works, and just smash one button. No matter how much CP, level, or gear you got otherwise.

The primary problem in many case is that people has no understanding on how the game works. They fail to use all their skills, because in world content they don't have to. Why should you place debuffs, dots, buffs, if you can just 2 hit an enemy with your biggest casting skill? And has no idea what light attacks for once they got some spammable skills. I would lie if i say, that i knew this last early. It worth a LOT to the dps, and not exactly obvious.

Kombinator

Odovacar wrote: »

Everyone plays the game in their own way. Do you honestly think ZOS would ever even for a millisecond consider this, lol?Also, why do you care OP? Anyone halfway decent usually plays with their buddies from guilds. Perma-puging is always a route for major frustration.

By that logic we should remove dungeon finder alltogether. Also remove battlegrounds alltogether, because you can just make PVP guilds clash on Cyrodiil. Also remove quest markers, because you should read the details. We should also remove zone-chat, and guild finder, because you can just run around yelling in cities. Remove all the guild traders, because you can yell for trading stuff. Heck why even tutorial exist? Just let them figure out! Let's reduce the game as much as possible, because begging for help is SKILL!

wolfie1.0.

Kombinator wrote: »

I don't know how, but i see so many people with high champion level, and skill of a newbie. I mean these guys reached over 300 champion level without ever doing dungeons, or bought their accounts. Regardless it would be nice to put some quest, that forces you at least once on an account through an advanced tutorial.

Stuff like standing out from the red circles, and how to deal proper dps using skills+light attack, and a test, that you understood. When i see a DD dealing 6k. dps with over 200 champion level it's kinda pathetic. I can do 4k. in my tank gear, and skillset to single target, if no self defense required.

Never assume that CP equals skill or anything else but experience gained. There are many many ways to earn CP in ESO and quite a bit of it is NOT combat related.

Also everyone that you see currently into game should have bought their account. If you didn't I would be curious as to how you are playing. IT IS a requirement to play the game afterall...

Jimmy_The_Fixer

A few expansions ago, World of Warcraft made you complete a role-based solo scenario before you were allowed to use the dungeon finder. You could always still do the dungeons with a group you made yourself, but you needed to complete the scenario before queuing into random. They were actually pretty good, the dps scenario was a mix of single target and AoE with priority targets and some enemies that were only vulnerable during burst windows.

Could be a good solution to the problems people are having with the groupfinder.

thadjarvis

Kombinator wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. OP just stop pugging if getting into dungeons with people of very diverse skill levels bother you that much.

So you saying, that teaching players is bad.

The game does not have training programs. Right or wrong ZoS relies on the community to teach new players how to play ESO more effectively (if that's what a player wants; some just RP). It is an MMO. Resting training within the community strengthens it as there's more incentive to join communities which ties players to the game. Again some may disagree, but right now that is how it is.

So, the training program is potentially you. Whenever I PUG, I am expecting to help out. That could mean off healing as tank/dd, tanking a bit while tank is dead, doing higher damage as a healer, explaining mechanics, and if I'm not in a rush at the end I may offer if any want build advice or a guild to join (if they were nice and communicative).

Recommendation:

• Don't PUG if you don't like playing with players that know how to play from a techincal standpoint
• Do PUG if you if you're fine carrying folks
• Definitely PUG if you want to (and have the patience) to help others