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Developers, please don't change Battlegrounds.

  • luizpaulom17
    luizpaulom17
    ✭✭✭
    First, I would like to say, and give props to the developers of ESO.

    I don't usually go on forums to say something, but after reading the PTR, I felt like I had to say something.

    This game is a growing game, and hooked me away from WoW after all the continuous terrible expansion releases that kept coming out (Especially BFA) when I realized it was a dying game. It was once a game that took skill and practice, and now it's a watered down game for 5 year olds to play with cookie cutter builds, could probably even be a mobile game one day.

    This game showed so much originality on how you can create your own unique character with all the unique skills. Love the mix a matching. The Elder scroll feel.

    I feel that removing premade's, duo's or even trios from joining BG's will be very detrimental to your game. Please stop catering to the loud minority of people who always complains when they don't get there way. I'm sure many other people of the silent majority would agree with me, that when we play MMO's we do it to play with other people, and enjoy team play. Couple's, friends, and family will be shut out of some of the best content, and that's a terrible notion to set for a MMO. We love your game, and we usually keep to ourselves if something small happens

    No one is asking or telling anyone to play BG's solo, it's the INDIVIDUALS choice to go in that way if he/she feels like it. It ISNT hard to make a 4 man team for BG. Being in a 4 man team doesn't insure you will win. At the end of the day, it comes down to the individual player's skills whether they are good or not. Instead of looking at themselves they look for reasons of why they didnt do so good.

    I play solo A LOT, and I can assure you, most of the time I'm carrying my team. I've even had encounters where I killed 4 people solo in the BG and got my achievements for it, and I play a melee type DK. If your team decides to run around like chickens in the middle ( Which other solo players do for some reason) be the the out of box thinker, and go for the objectives. If you know you are not part of a team, YOU should be the one that tries to stick with other players. If you are frustrated about what your teammates are doing YOU should try to take charge instead of trash talking YOU should learn to LEAD, instead of crying. Do you always win even though you try your best? No, but you should be trying to enjoy the experience. Heck some people just go in there to just kill other players and ignore the objectives. I've got plenty of whispers saying "YOUR A FILTHY PREMADE TEAM", and I won't lie I treat them with the same respect and troll them.

    At the end of the day, PvP all comes down to the INDIVIDUAL to make a difference I

    Someone will always cry about something to divert blame from themselves. If its not premades, its there team, if it's not there team, its the lag, if its not the lag its the magical delay thats not there, if its not that its there class design, ect. You can never make these kind of people happy, they will complain and complain until they make you make your game watered down to cater to people who arent willing to learn mechanics and play.


    Joining ESO, I was able to meet the most nicest people at the start when entering the game, and it was very easy to make friends who would tag along in BG's. Please I implore people, please be more social with others, this is a MMORPG, not a single player game. If you want to play elder scrolls alone, you can easily just play skyrim with all the mods in the world.

    I would like to continue playing with my family and friends in these contents.

    Only solution I could think of is making a new BG type for que'd 1v1 duels, or even a 1v1v1 type match, somewhat like an arena type fight for soloist. But again, someone will complain about something even in a 1v1 duel, will probably even complain that its not fair the enemy has better gear along the lines like "PLEASE REMOVE SET ABILITIES!".

    Closing statement, Please don't water down your game, please don't ruin it for people who want a change, and won't touch it after you fixed it for them. It took me 2 days just to sign up to type on these forums, please understand the difficulty for players to give you feed back having them to go through the support to get sign up for these forums, and how it deters people from showing there support. Had to even google how to get an invitation for the forums.

    I Will be laughing at U while I play some cool Ranked arenas on wow! Meanwhile, keep playing broken Bgs which U wont be able to play with your friends on the next patch! Peace out!

    If you find pole dancing, and a world where a healer can solo any dps, have fun! But hey! Why are you on ESO forum if wow is so good? Lol

    I find it very amusing all the crying around this fórum. Also, what to make sure honest gamers dont end up falling in the same scam I went thought last year. But worry not, I only play at night thats why Im not playing right now
  • Commandment
    Commandment
    ✭✭✭
    First, I would like to say, and give props to the developers of ESO.

    I don't usually go on forums to say something, but after reading the PTR, I felt like I had to say something.

    This game is a growing game, and hooked me away from WoW after all the continuous terrible expansion releases that kept coming out (Especially BFA) when I realized it was a dying game. It was once a game that took skill and practice, and now it's a watered down game for 5 year olds to play with cookie cutter builds, could probably even be a mobile game one day.

    This game showed so much originality on how you can create your own unique character with all the unique skills. Love the mix a matching. The Elder scroll feel.

    I feel that removing premade's, duo's or even trios from joining BG's will be very detrimental to your game. Please stop catering to the loud minority of people who always complains when they don't get there way. I'm sure many other people of the silent majority would agree with me, that when we play MMO's we do it to play with other people, and enjoy team play. Couple's, friends, and family will be shut out of some of the best content, and that's a terrible notion to set for a MMO. We love your game, and we usually keep to ourselves if something small happens

    No one is asking or telling anyone to play BG's solo, it's the INDIVIDUALS choice to go in that way if he/she feels like it. It ISNT hard to make a 4 man team for BG. Being in a 4 man team doesn't insure you will win. At the end of the day, it comes down to the individual player's skills whether they are good or not. Instead of looking at themselves they look for reasons of why they didnt do so good.

    I play solo A LOT, and I can assure you, most of the time I'm carrying my team. I've even had encounters where I killed 4 people solo in the BG and got my achievements for it, and I play a melee type DK. If your team decides to run around like chickens in the middle ( Which other solo players do for some reason) be the the out of box thinker, and go for the objectives. If you know you are not part of a team, YOU should be the one that tries to stick with other players. If you are frustrated about what your teammates are doing YOU should try to take charge instead of trash talking YOU should learn to LEAD, instead of crying. Do you always win even though you try your best? No, but you should be trying to enjoy the experience. Heck some people just go in there to just kill other players and ignore the objectives. I've got plenty of whispers saying "YOUR A FILTHY PREMADE TEAM", and I won't lie I treat them with the same respect and troll them.

    At the end of the day, PvP all comes down to the INDIVIDUAL to make a difference I

    Someone will always cry about something to divert blame from themselves. If its not premades, its there team, if it's not there team, its the lag, if its not the lag its the magical delay thats not there, if its not that its there class design, ect. You can never make these kind of people happy, they will complain and complain until they make you make your game watered down to cater to people who arent willing to learn mechanics and play.


    Joining ESO, I was able to meet the most nicest people at the start when entering the game, and it was very easy to make friends who would tag along in BG's. Please I implore people, please be more social with others, this is a MMORPG, not a single player game. If you want to play elder scrolls alone, you can easily just play skyrim with all the mods in the world.

    I would like to continue playing with my family and friends in these contents.

    Only solution I could think of is making a new BG type for que'd 1v1 duels, or even a 1v1v1 type match, somewhat like an arena type fight for soloist. But again, someone will complain about something even in a 1v1 duel, will probably even complain that its not fair the enemy has better gear along the lines like "PLEASE REMOVE SET ABILITIES!".

    Closing statement, Please don't water down your game, please don't ruin it for people who want a change, and won't touch it after you fixed it for them. It took me 2 days just to sign up to type on these forums, please understand the difficulty for players to give you feed back having them to go through the support to get sign up for these forums, and how it deters people from showing there support. Had to even google how to get an invitation for the forums.

    I Will be laughing at U while I play some cool Ranked arenas on wow! Meanwhile, keep playing broken Bgs which U wont be able to play with your friends on the next patch! Peace out!

    If you find pole dancing, and a world where a healer can solo any dps, have fun! But hey! Why are you on ESO forum if wow is so good? Lol

    I find it very amusing all the crying around this fórum. Also, what to make sure honest gamers dont end up falling in the same scam I went thought last year. But worry not, I only play at night thats why Im not playing right now

    Thats strange, last time I check the WoW forums, it was full of complaints about class imbalance. I guess it's quiet down there now because its finally a dead game.
  • Commandment
    Commandment
    ✭✭✭
    xWarbrain wrote: »
    If you were so good and amazing, "I dont need no team" Then just solo as is lol. You clearly state your so good at outplays you don't need those "friends" that you apparently hate.

    You're missing the point. The main point, and most importantly, is that we all understand that I'm better than my friends, that I hate them all and that I never liked them (they'd say the same). Now that we all agree and are on the same page...

    The less important point in my comment is that you say people who want this change are "crybabies". The people who don't need 3 other people to carry them through a BG are the "crybabies". The ones who have put the time in to not suck at BGs are the "crybabies". That's your argument.

    To clarify, your argument is that making BGs solo-queue only is catering to "crybabies" who don't need to go into BGs with a premade for a chance at winning. My argument is that I DO have 3 other people I can play with, but as a non-crybaby I can see that it will be more fair for everyone all around if we're all on the same playing field and all queue separately. That way, MMR will actually track how well you do on average without the same 3 people carrying you every time you enter a BG. Maybe you'll have a healer this game, maybe not. You won't be guaranteed a healer every time like you were in your premade, because your healer friend is on the other team this time. Who's crying? The people who can cope with playing with 3 people they don't know, or the people that miss their friends that they'll apparently never see or talk to again if the evil devs go through with this change?

    My whole point to my OP, was that a good solo player can make a big difference in there team PERIOD. It's not the premades or the magical badman thats out there. Sometimes theres not even a premade in the match, and people will call out other teams for being in premades just because they can't accept they lost. My example when i soloed a 4man team literally, and received angry hate whispers saying that I'm only good because I was in a premade.

    Again being in a premade team doesnt mean, or guarantee you will win. You can be in a pug with 3 competent other people and still win against a premade. Happened many times. But hey, if you are so confident about your team that carried you to success, please tell me your on the top 20 leader board.

    There are many factors to a BG that come into play. Do the enemy has a healer? Do you have a healer? Is the healer competent? Are you playing around the healer? Are you protecting your healer? Are you doing your best not to go rambo in the middle of a team? ect.

    Then again anyone can make up any sob story to try to make a point.


  • Gravord
    Gravord
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.

    But dont you see the issue in it? By turning it into such pugfest crucial force driving players to get better - fear of getting stomped a little bit to hard - will be gone. It will create lazy, complacent enviroment. Blaming those evil nasty premades will be gone, replaced by "i had worse randoms on my side". And as evil nasty premades might be, many players respond to them in correct way - getting better, improving their chars/builds/sets and self organizing into groups themselves. All that taken away will turn game into pure shitshow with quality of the fights and players participating in them, gone. Competition, gone.
    ESO is already way too casual in many regards, i really do not wish bgs degrade to please few lazy ppl who cant be arsed to make teams if they so much fear "premades". Term itself too loosely thrown around this forum, overstretched to the limits where any totally random pugs not splitting like morons and actually supporting each other in a match are considered to be a premade instantly by clueless solo runners ruining score of their own team.

    See I am the opposite. Can't count how many times I have seen premades get carried by one or two players while the other two just sit back pocket heal, CC, and support. Especially in TDM.

    I just think that many of the premades know that with out their teammates they are not as skilled as they claim to be and will actually have to put in the effort to increase their individual skill.

    The whole "Having a premade rofl stomp you 4 vs 1 just means you need to L2P and git gud" argument just doesn't hold no merit whatsoever.

    Thats not how any of this works. Person healing team is doing his part. If one or two ppl "carry" then its not a real premade and you shouldnt struggle against them in the first place.

    "Not as skilled without their team mates" is classic bs used by everyone running same all around boring spec that include some dmg, some self heals and some self sustain. Maybe not everyone want run same build and want to specialize? And that works best in team. Swapping to same build as everyone else is not increasing skills, is making pvp worse.

    And the argument is not 4vs1 you so git gud. Argument is, make your own team and beat them. Bg is a 4 man content, for a reason. You want perform better in it, you need 4 ppl working for the team success.

    I could sit here and debate back and fourth all day, but don't think I will. BGs was made for Random solo queues. Plain and simple.

    And no I should not have to make a team to enter a RANDOM BG queue. That's the reason the team finder exists not for Premades to abuse and boost off of randoms teams.

    You want to do Premade go to Cyrodil or Imperial city.

    You want go solo go to Cyrodiil or Imperial city. Same failed logic can be applied. Bg are group content, like it or not. I dont mind adding solo q only hovewer, but not as ONLY option for bgs at all, thats ridiculous solution.

    Im sure you are going to dlc dungs for speed no death hm runs with random q too :wink:
    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.

    But dont you see the issue in it? By turning it into such pugfest crucial force driving players to get better - fear of getting stomped a little bit to hard - will be gone. It will create lazy, complacent enviroment. Blaming those evil nasty premades will be gone, replaced by "i had worse randoms on my side". And as evil nasty premades might be, many players respond to them in correct way - getting better, improving their chars/builds/sets and self organizing into groups themselves. All that taken away will turn game into pure shitshow with quality of the fights and players participating in them, gone. Competition, gone.
    ESO is already way too casual in many regards, i really do not wish bgs degrade to please few lazy ppl who cant be arsed to make teams if they so much fear "premades". Term itself too loosely thrown around this forum, overstretched to the limits where any totally random pugs not splitting like morons and actually supporting each other in a match are considered to be a premade instantly by clueless solo runners ruining score of their own team.

    See I am the opposite. Can't count how many times I have seen premades get carried by one or two players while the other two just sit back pocket heal, CC, and support. Especially in TDM.

    I just think that many of the premades know that with out their teammates they are not as skilled as they claim to be and will actually have to put in the effort to increase their individual skill.

    The whole "Having a premade rofl stomp you 4 vs 1 just means you need to L2P and git gud" argument just doesn't hold no merit whatsoever.

    Thats not how any of this works. Person healing team is doing his part. If one or two ppl "carry" then its not a real premade and you shouldnt struggle against them in the first place.

    "Not as skilled without their team mates" is classic bs used by everyone running same all around boring spec that include some dmg, some self heals and some self sustain. Maybe not everyone want run same build and want to specialize? And that works best in team. Swapping to same build as everyone else is not increasing skills, is making pvp worse.

    And the argument is not 4vs1 you so git gud. Argument is, make your own team and beat them. Bg is a 4 man content, for a reason. You want perform better in it, you need 4 ppl working for the team success.

    I could sit here and debate back and fourth all day, but don't think I will. BGs was made for Random solo queues. Plain and simple.

    And no I should not have to make a team to enter a RANDOM BG queue. That's the reason the team finder exists not for Premades to abuse and boost off of randoms teams.

    You want to do Premade go to Cyrodil or Imperial city.

    You want go solo go to Cyrodiil or Imperial city. Same failed logic can be applied. Bg are group content, like it or not. I dont mind adding solo q only hovewer, but not as ONLY option for bgs at all, thats ridiculous solution.

    Im sure you are going to dlc dungs for speed no death hm runs with random q too :wink:

    Last I checked you the only reason to run a DLC dungeon no death, hard mode, speedrun is to get the achievements. And yes you do need a premade for that. However to complete a Vet Dungeon does not require a Premade.

    BG Achivement can be completed 100% with random or premade groups and are completely solo friendly. You sir are arguing Apples and Oranges. Nice try though 😎

    Soo, you are saying that organized team will perform on higher standard than random pug? Well well well. Cant you just agree that making it into pugfest alone will downgrade quality of fights? Or will remain stubborn?
    Its exactly same in bg, sure, you can complete bg with full pug, sure, you will win some even, but that will forever be pug level. Only players organizing into teams raise the skill cap to higher degree. when they face other organized teams and have to adapt their tactics and builds to provide better results for the team.
    4 pugs will just run their usual all around build, those who stick together win, those who stick together and get lucky to get healer win even more often, thats all pugfest will ever provide.
  • ZOS_GregoryV
    Greetings all,

    After reviewing the thread we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and remain within the guidelines of the rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

    Thank you for your understanding,
    -Greg-
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
  • deathlikebean
    deathlikebean
    ✭✭✭
    Unpopular opinion (said by others, but trying to show that this is something important to us) -

    Two separate queues: one for solo players (solo queue) and one for premade groups (up to four people) and your matched against equal compositions.

    One thing we enjoy running in our guild is a Battleground group, we know going into this that we will die and win some and lose others. We don't complain and file reports. And by removing the group BG queue, you're taking a whole aspect of the guild away and it's unfortunate because this is a multiplayer game.

    As time goes on, the aspects of this game should grow and expand, not regress. Add a solo queue to fix this issue please :confused:
    Edited by deathlikebean on February 4, 2020 5:38PM
    -Guild Leader of Senche Adventure Academy
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gravord wrote: »
    Well well well. Cant you just agree that making it into pugfest alone will downgrade quality of fights?
    I will disagree with that. Tryhard premade vs randoms frequently leads to fights whose quality level is absolutely bottom-of-the-barrel. There's simply no competition when an "optimized" team of 4 ult-dumpers with a dedicated healer is going up against understaffed groups of random solo queued players, who may not even have much off-healing.

    This whole idea that running into premades makes everyone else group up into comparable teams and thus leads to amazingly good fights is just a fantasy. I've played "premade police" before, and oftentimes we wouldn't even get the team that we group queued to face off against. Instead, they'd be stomping on two groups of randoms in one game, while we unfortunately ended up doing the same thing in another (after a long wait in the queue, of course).

    Then there were the games where we'd have 12 people forming 3 different full premade groups, only accepting the queue if we all got it at the same time. Those games were good fun if they weren't too organized/tryhard-ish, but if everyone actually did their best to win the fights were terrible. You'd spend the majority of the 15 minute game playing ring-around-the-roses, only engaging if one team got caught in a bad position. The final scores were always really low, even if you managed to score some kills through environmental damage.

    I'd love to see ESO have something akin to WoW's Arena system, where two organized teams would face off against each other, with no "third wheel" interfering/killstealing. With a bit of balancing, I think such a system could provide some good, competitive fights. Barring that, solo-only Battlegrounds is the way to go (though, as I said before, I think having a separate premade-only queue would also be just fine...though probably a ghost town unless you organize something with a full 12 people).
  • Gravord
    Gravord
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    Well well well. Cant you just agree that making it into pugfest alone will downgrade quality of fights?
    I will disagree with that. Tryhard premade vs randoms frequently leads to fights whose quality level is absolutely bottom-of-the-barrel. There's simply no competition when an "optimized" team of 4 ult-dumpers with a dedicated healer is going up against understaffed groups of random solo queued players, who may not even have much off-healing.

    This whole idea that running into premades makes everyone else group up into comparable teams and thus leads to amazingly good fights is just a fantasy. I've played "premade police" before, and oftentimes we wouldn't even get the team that we group queued to face off against. Instead, they'd be stomping on two groups of randoms in one game, while we unfortunately ended up doing the same thing in another (after a long wait in the queue, of course).

    Then there were the games where we'd have 12 people forming 3 different full premade groups, only accepting the queue if we all got it at the same time. Those games were good fun if they weren't too organized/tryhard-ish, but if everyone actually did their best to win the fights were terrible. You'd spend the majority of the 15 minute game playing ring-around-the-roses, only engaging if one team got caught in a bad position. The final scores were always really low, even if you managed to score some kills through environmental damage.

    I'd love to see ESO have something akin to WoW's Arena system, where two organized teams would face off against each other, with no "third wheel" interfering/killstealing. With a bit of balancing, I think such a system could provide some good, competitive fights. Barring that, solo-only Battlegrounds is the way to go (though, as I said before, I think having a separate premade-only queue would also be just fine...though probably a ghost town unless you organize something with a full 12 people).

    If you seen my other post youd know that many things you propose ive proposed too.
    4v4 deathmatch SWTOR style that full teams get into as prority over any other kind of games is crucial part of it. That gives them hardest fights vs other full premades while keeping 1-4 q relatively free with only rare occurance of full premades.

    Thats my full post about it:

    3 types of q for Battlegrounds:
    1. Solo q only, fast matches
    2. Any group size q, slightly slower matches, teams of 2-3-4 take priority and solo players filling up the gaps to complete full 4 man setup
    3. Premade vs premade in 4vs4 arena, deathmatch only. Slowest pop rate but highest competition level. Could be additionally implemented with option of guild vs guild challenge as many other games have.

    Solo player you can q for nr 1 or 2 or both to speed up your q.
    Group of 2-3 can choose only option 2.
    Full premade option 2 and 3.

    Simple, effective, not penalizing ppl putting effort to organize themselves in a frikin multiplayer game yet giving solo q fair playing field.
  • JWillCHS
    JWillCHS
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    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.

    But dont you see the issue in it? By turning it into such pugfest crucial force driving players to get better - fear of getting stomped a little bit to hard - will be gone. It will create lazy, complacent enviroment. Blaming those evil nasty premades will be gone, replaced by "i had worse randoms on my side". And as evil nasty premades might be, many players respond to them in correct way - getting better, improving their chars/builds/sets and self organizing into groups themselves. All that taken away will turn game into pure shitshow with quality of the fights and players participating in them, gone. Competition, gone.
    ESO is already way too casual in many regards, i really do not wish bgs degrade to please few lazy ppl who cant be arsed to make teams if they so much fear "premades". Term itself too loosely thrown around this forum, overstretched to the limits where any totally random pugs not splitting like morons and actually supporting each other in a match are considered to be a premade instantly by clueless solo runners ruining score of their own team.

    See I am the opposite. Can't count how many times I have seen premades get carried by one or two players while the other two just sit back pocket heal, CC, and support. Especially in TDM.

    I just think that many of the premades know that with out their teammates they are not as skilled as they claim to be and will actually have to put in the effort to increase their individual skill.

    The whole "Having a premade rofl stomp you 4 vs 1 just means you need to L2P and git gud" argument just doesn't hold no merit whatsoever.

    Thats not how any of this works. Person healing team is doing his part. If one or two ppl "carry" then its not a real premade and you shouldnt struggle against them in the first place.

    "Not as skilled without their team mates" is classic bs used by everyone running same all around boring spec that include some dmg, some self heals and some self sustain. Maybe not everyone want run same build and want to specialize? And that works best in team. Swapping to same build as everyone else is not increasing skills, is making pvp worse.

    And the argument is not 4vs1 you so git gud. Argument is, make your own team and beat them. Bg is a 4 man content, for a reason. You want perform better in it, you need 4 ppl working for the team success.

    I think on both sides of the argument people are making assumptions.

    You can still specialize in a playstyle but you won't synergize with every group. I do it all the time.

    I do think premades can make BGs more competitive too. But the MMR system is so broken, and the difficulty regarding your match ups are inconsistent. Over the weekend I entered a match through a solo queue with Vandstyle placed on my team. But everyone else was just fodder; in fact under level 50. How and why?

    There are even matches I join as a premade and the opponents are no where near comparable to my group as a whole or by individual skill. How and why?

    In any other game when a league is fresh in the first couple of weeks you have matches all over the place. But as players lose and win the game should determine the appropriate match ups. Especially when you get deep into the season. And ESO is far from that type of matchmaking.

    You should only be matched with players who have similar ranks. But of course the MMR system is only based on time played which makes no sense what's so ever. The matches are literally like rolling dice.

    I wondering if ZoS has fixed how players are rated. But I'm highly interested in this experiment because I currently do not like how MMR works in ESO.

    Teams with PUGs who beat really good premade groups probably have players who would most likely be rated higher than most participants in BGs. But ESO doesn't know how to rate them right now.

    And with a good MMR system people can learn the game at a reasonable pace. You're not being thrown to the wolves if you're not a wolf yourself. Out of all the PvP in ESO I think BGs should have this approach whether you have premades or not.

    And it just doesn't. . .


    Edit: and for all the wolves they should get rare rewards for being that good!
    Edited by JWillCHS on February 4, 2020 8:04PM
  • dRudE
    dRudE
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    Clearly the most sensible option is to have a solo que and also the que we currently have.

    If people want to que solo, they can, knowing the que might take longer but they won’t face premades.

    The premades can still have their fun too in their que which in all fairness shouldn’t take any longer since I’ve seen a lot of people crying not to make the change.

    Job done, problem solved with least trouble, nobody can complain and everybody wins, the end.

    Now can people stop pretending they don’t want the solo que because they enjoy roflstomping pugs in their premades :D
  • Commandment
    Commandment
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    Unpopular opinion (said by others, but trying to show that this is something important to us) -

    Two separate queues: one for solo players (solo queue) and one for premade groups (up to four people) and your matched against equal compositions.

    One thing we enjoy running in our guild is a Battleground group, we know going into this that we will die and win some and lose others. We don't complain and file reports. And by removing the group BG queue, you're taking a whole aspect of the guild away and it's unfortunate because this is a multiplayer game.

    As time goes on, the aspects of this game should grow and expand, not regress. Add a solo queue to fix this issue please :confused:

    Doesn't work, and contradicts itself. Up to 4, meaning you can be in a duo, and get 2 pugs? That is not a premade by definition. You have a trio, and where do you get the solo player? If the solo player can only que from the solo que?
    Your going to send him to a random 3 man, and again its still not a premade my definition. If that soloist gets crushed with the 3 man team, he will still cry about the other team being a premade.

  • Commandment
    Commandment
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    mursie wrote: »
    i feel quite certain that 99% of the people that want to play with their groups...would no longer want to play with their groups if all they played against were other like-minded premade group players.

    I say 99% because 1% of the group players would actually be stomping the *** out of the rest of the groups...and they would most certainly love it.

    I'm also quite certain that after about 1 week of premade only que's... premades would completely disappear since 99% of them would be *** getting curb-stomped by the 1%. and wouldn't you know - facing actual competitive talent qued up as a premade against your premade and curb stomping you... just isn't very fun. who would have guessed.

    What? So an amazing team will rise to the top reaching number 1 and causing everyone else to quit? Thats cRaZy!!! Who would have thought a good group of players can't make dreams come true?!?!!?

    99% of battles with 3 teams lose odds??? Thats amazing statistics!!
  • Gravord
    Gravord
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    mursie wrote: »
    i feel quite certain that 99% of the people that want to play with their groups...would no longer want to play with their groups if all they played against were other like-minded premade group players.

    I say 99% because 1% of the group players would actually be stomping the *** out of the rest of the groups...and they would most certainly love it.

    I'm also quite certain that after about 1 week of premade only que's... premades would completely disappear since 99% of them would be *** getting curb-stomped by the 1%. and wouldn't you know - facing actual competitive talent qued up as a premade against your premade and curb stomping you... just isn't very fun. who would have guessed.

    What? So an amazing team will rise to the top reaching number 1 and causing everyone else to quit? Thats cRaZy!!! Who would have thought a good group of players can't make dreams come true?!?!!?

    99% of battles with 3 teams lose odds??? Thats amazing statistics!!

    Can you imagine how all sports would colapse if his storytelling was actually true? Or e-sports on that matter.
    Suprisingly, they arent quitting but trying get better for the next game or season... odd isnt it?
  • Commandment
    Commandment
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    Gravord wrote: »
    mursie wrote: »
    i feel quite certain that 99% of the people that want to play with their groups...would no longer want to play with their groups if all they played against were other like-minded premade group players.

    I say 99% because 1% of the group players would actually be stomping the *** out of the rest of the groups...and they would most certainly love it.

    I'm also quite certain that after about 1 week of premade only que's... premades would completely disappear since 99% of them would be *** getting curb-stomped by the 1%. and wouldn't you know - facing actual competitive talent qued up as a premade against your premade and curb stomping you... just isn't very fun. who would have guessed.

    What? So an amazing team will rise to the top reaching number 1 and causing everyone else to quit? Thats cRaZy!!! Who would have thought a good group of players can't make dreams come true?!?!!?

    99% of battles with 3 teams lose odds??? Thats amazing statistics!!

    Can you imagine how all sports would colapse if his storytelling was actually true? Or e-sports on that matter.
    Suprisingly, they arent quitting but trying get better for the next game or season... odd isnt it?

    Exactly, it's like watching a sport full of soyboys, who cry every time someone nicks them. wait...
    *Looks at soccer*
    Nvm
  • Zer0oo
    Zer0oo
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    mursie wrote: »
    i feel quite certain that 99% of the people that want to play with their groups...would no longer want to play with their groups if all they played against were other like-minded premade group players.

    I say 99% because 1% of the group players would actually be stomping the *** out of the rest of the groups...and they would most certainly love it.

    I'm also quite certain that after about 1 week of premade only que's... premades would completely disappear since 99% of them would be *** getting curb-stomped by the 1%. and wouldn't you know - facing actual competitive talent qued up as a premade against your premade and curb stomping you... just isn't very fun. who would have guessed.

    Actual most premade groups actually do not want to run over pugs, but the system is quite bad to actually match grp vs grps.
    Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus
    - Update 23
  • deathlikebean
    deathlikebean
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    :|
    Edited by deathlikebean on February 5, 2020 6:01PM
    -Guild Leader of Senche Adventure Academy
  • deathlikebean
    deathlikebean
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    Unpopular opinion (said by others, but trying to show that this is something important to us) -

    Two separate queues: one for solo players (solo queue) and one for premade groups (up to four people) and your matched against equal compositions.

    One thing we enjoy running in our guild is a Battleground group, we know going into this that we will die and win some and lose others. We don't complain and file reports. And by removing the group BG queue, you're taking a whole aspect of the guild away and it's unfortunate because this is a multiplayer game.

    As time goes on, the aspects of this game should grow and expand, not regress. Add a solo queue to fix this issue please :confused:

    Doesn't work, and contradicts itself. Up to 4, meaning you can be in a duo, and get 2 pugs? That is not a premade by definition. You have a trio, and where do you get the solo player? If the solo player can only que from the solo que?
    Your going to send him to a random 3 man, and again its still not a premade my definition. If that soloist gets crushed with the 3 man team, he will still cry about the other team being a premade.


    Solo (4 solo players per group)
    Duo (2 duos per group 2+2=4)
    Trio ( 3 teams of 3) which I've seen happen
    Full 4 person

    And that's not even to say that this has to be the strict format for Battle Ground groups. What about two groups instead of three? Or not thinking about the number queue restriction altogether and try to improve as a player, perhaps? Work on a build, try different skills, see what works and what doesn't?? That's what I've done. I straight up got #rekt in bgs when I first started playing them.

    So I guess we're going to cater to players that don't want to put in the time to grow and improve but rather tone down the PvP content. One thing I love about this game is the depth and challenge in all aspects of ESO and that's what has kept me engaged for over 5 years now. And once these cry hard players are board and moved on to something else, we'll be left with the watered down content.
    -Guild Leader of Senche Adventure Academy
  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
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    The problem with separating ques is that not many players even bg now a days. At high mmr you fight the same 20-25 people weekly. A lot of them are all in the same guild and know each other (adastra). With how matchmaking works currently spreading out the "premades" will just lead to those players not able to match up against each other and instead be matched against the closest pugs on the list >>>nerf premade threads.
    In my opinion, to improve at something especially in fighting games you must compete with better players. Think of dark souls for example, the whole concept is to get your ass handed to you and find something to improve on each time. If your feelings get hurt from losing a few times and do nothing to improve yourself/group I have no sympathy for you. If there is a higher skilled player and he makes all of the right choices in combat, I believe that player should win against lesser players who specifically run builds to avoid making high level choices in short time periods.

    (example of this that everyone will understand is when sloads got introduced. Technically you could do more damage by running a wd set, but sloads was 90% as effective and guaranteed just for you existing in the fight. This is the root reason people complain when procs and dots become the meta, simply skill plays no part and the tools are simple to use with little counterplay available)

    When game devs tend to cater to these type of players, the game as a whole loses complexity. As the skill cap for the game decreases high mmr players feel weak because some idiot couldn't or wouldn't even try to understand what is going on. Pugs start being granted guaranteed damage/healing/tankiness like it is their birthright. Basic mechanics in the game are broken down, eventually being simplified to a former shell of what they used to be. The only determining factor to how stop a game from breaking down falls on the devs to have the balls to tell people they are wrong and just need to improve. In todays gaming market though, it would be a death sentence if zos took to this attitude.
  • Commandment
    Commandment
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    Unpopular opinion (said by others, but trying to show that this is something important to us) -

    Two separate queues: one for solo players (solo queue) and one for premade groups (up to four people) and your matched against equal compositions.

    One thing we enjoy running in our guild is a Battleground group, we know going into this that we will die and win some and lose others. We don't complain and file reports. And by removing the group BG queue, you're taking a whole aspect of the guild away and it's unfortunate because this is a multiplayer game.

    As time goes on, the aspects of this game should grow and expand, not regress. Add a solo queue to fix this issue please :confused:

    Doesn't work, and contradicts itself. Up to 4, meaning you can be in a duo, and get 2 pugs? That is not a premade by definition. You have a trio, and where do you get the solo player? If the solo player can only que from the solo que?
    Your going to send him to a random 3 man, and again its still not a premade my definition. If that soloist gets crushed with the 3 man team, he will still cry about the other team being a premade.


    Solo (4 solo players per group)
    Duo (2 duos per group 2+2=4)
    Trio ( 3 teams of 3) which I've seen happen
    Full 4 person

    And that's not even to say that this has to be the strict format for Battle Ground groups. What about two groups instead of three? Or not thinking about the number queue restriction altogether and try to improve as a player, perhaps? Work on a build, try different skills, see what works and what doesn't?? That's what I've done. I straight up got #rekt in bgs when I first started playing them.

    So I guess we're going to cater to players that don't want to put in the time to grow and improve but rather tone down the PvP content. One thing I love about this game is the depth and challenge in all aspects of ESO and that's what has kept me engaged for over 5 years now. And once these cry hard players are board and moved on to something else, we'll be left with the watered down content.

    Exactly, you proved my point, but at the same time your missing the point of conflict to your idea.

    Solo (4 players per group) Same thing will happen currently, 2 teams will have chickens sometimes only 1 of them, and the semi good group with a healer will crush them causing them to cry about other "reasons".

    Duo (2v2) Again that is not a premade by definition, and then you will set them up against a real premade?

    Trio (3 teams of 3) So now you want 3 ques? There's no such thing as a 3v3v3. You're pretty much asking for another ranking system. Now you have just splitted up the pvp community from 1 to 1/2 to 1/3rd giving everyone a even longer que time as there isnt going to be as much trios than duos or premades.. ESO has always been played by defualt 4v4v4

    Full 4 person- Obvious premade.


    So to your first statement, no, 4v4v4's is what makes ESO unique from swtor, wow, and ff. As i noted somewhere in my OP there are people in there just to mess around as you have stated, bringing in weird builds hoping for the best. You should have no complaints for a loss if you tested chicken build number 2 and run around to see if you can 1 shot someone instead of doing objectives. Would it be nice to have a 4v4 map? Possibly, but now you will have the better team completely destroy the trash team which was the reason for the extra 4. To even out the balance.

    You will never improve if you fight someone on your level, that is a fact. You promote people to go into solo BG's doing nothing but run around testing builds, you will still hurt the "try hard" soloist who have the "I'M NUMBER ONE" dream. Now you're going to have another complaint on your hands. "PeOpLe ArE TroLLing Me, I kEeP gEtTing StUK wit Da BuILd testeR, My OtHeR tEamatE iS Not 160 cP, hE is Cp 29"
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    I almost always solo queue and do well. I think the main thing for successful solo queuing is adapting to your team mates.

    I imagine I’m still facing off against premades and if we have a good team we’re winning, it all depends on the quality of solo players you get that day.

    Sometime last week I had a day where I went 6 wins - 1 2nd place and 0 losses solo queued in mid MMR, the next day I went 4 2nd place and 4 last places. It all depends on who gets stuck with the NBs and how adaptable the people you’re playing with are. Some people just can’t adapt and lack awareness so get frustrated.
    Edited by Iskiab on February 6, 2020 4:02AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Gravord
    Gravord
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    Would it be nice to have a 4v4 map? Possibly, but now you will have the better team completely destroy the trash team which was the reason for the extra 4. To even out the balance./quote]


    By the comments in various bg topics clearly that 3 team system doesnt balance out anything if one premade always dominates it so badly... Unless ppl exagerate.
    Edited by Gravord on February 6, 2020 1:54PM
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    People do exaggerate. They’ve never played 2 team BG games except for WoW, and are just looking to inflict it’s poor mechanics somewhere else.

    It’s a little off topic, but two team battlegrounds would lead to a lot of 500-0 games or worse games that ended with people staying at their spawn or just exiting the game.
    Edited by Iskiab on February 6, 2020 12:44PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Gravord
    Gravord
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    People do exaggerate. They’ve never played 2 team BG games except for WoW, and are just looking to inflict it’s poor mechanics somewhere else.

    It’s a little off topic, but two team battlegrounds would lead to a lot of 500-0 games or worse games that ended with people staying at their spawn or just exiting the game.

    Yes, they would.
    Thats why in my proposal two team bg happen only in situation where we have 2 premades of 4 ppl each.
    2 premades go against each other and if one is clearly worse and gets stomped 500:0, they realise what and how much they have to improve to change that outcome in the future.
    And with SWTOR style design, there is no need of boring spawn camp not fun for anyone - you have 2 rounds to win, 4 kills to be made, you kill 4 enemy players, you win the round. They get 30s preparation and you go round 2, if you won again, its done. If they win, you fight final round 3 to determine winner of whole bg. Simple, clean system, no spawncamping.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Gravord wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    People do exaggerate. They’ve never played 2 team BG games except for WoW, and are just looking to inflict it’s poor mechanics somewhere else.

    It’s a little off topic, but two team battlegrounds would lead to a lot of 500-0 games or worse games that ended with people staying at their spawn or just exiting the game.

    Yes, they would.
    Thats why in my proposal two team bg happen only in situation where we have 2 premades of 4 ppl each.
    2 premades go against each other and if one is clearly worse and gets stomped 500:0, they realise what and how much they have to improve to change that outcome in the future.
    And with SWTOR style design, there is no need of boring spawn camp not fun for anyone - you have 2 rounds to win, 4 kills to be made, you kill 4 enemy players, you win the round. They get 30s preparation and you go round 2, if you won again, its done. If they win, you fight final round 3 to determine winner of whole bg. Simple, clean system, no spawncamping.

    That would be pretty good actually. So something like after X deaths the match is over. IDK if the game has the BG population for it, but more people might play too because people love numbers to show performance.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Gravord
    Gravord
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    People do exaggerate. They’ve never played 2 team BG games except for WoW, and are just looking to inflict it’s poor mechanics somewhere else.

    It’s a little off topic, but two team battlegrounds would lead to a lot of 500-0 games or worse games that ended with people staying at their spawn or just exiting the game.

    Yes, they would.
    Thats why in my proposal two team bg happen only in situation where we have 2 premades of 4 ppl each.
    2 premades go against each other and if one is clearly worse and gets stomped 500:0, they realise what and how much they have to improve to change that outcome in the future.
    And with SWTOR style design, there is no need of boring spawn camp not fun for anyone - you have 2 rounds to win, 4 kills to be made, you kill 4 enemy players, you win the round. They get 30s preparation and you go round 2, if you won again, its done. If they win, you fight final round 3 to determine winner of whole bg. Simple, clean system, no spawncamping.

    That would be pretty good actually. So something like after X deaths the match is over. IDK if the game has the BG population for it, but more people might play too because people love numbers to show performance.

    1 life per char precisely. As SWTOR doesnt have battle resses in . But it could be adjusted for 4 lifes per team and allow resses. Or keep it 1 person 1 life per round. Im fine with either.
    Just still hoping some dev reaction and not going live with this silly idea of removing grouping entirely...
    BGs are neglected, we barely get new maps, no new game modes since launch, scarce rewards. With a bit of dev effort it could go up by a lot.
  • ketsparrowhawk
    ketsparrowhawk
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    I'll be very surprised if solo-only queues last more than one single patch. Seems like a testing / info-gathering attempt to me.
  • Gravord
    Gravord
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    I'll be very surprised if solo-only queues last more than one single patch. Seems like a testing / info-gathering attempt to me.

    Its going to be detrimental no matter how short it last. Players who like to group up are already looking for other games as ZOS doesnt bother to adress their concerns.
  • PhoenixGrey
    PhoenixGrey
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    Gravord wrote: »
    I'll be very surprised if solo-only queues last more than one single patch. Seems like a testing / info-gathering attempt to me.

    Its going to be detrimental no matter how short it last. Players who like to group up are already looking for other games as ZOS doesnt bother to adress their concerns.

    If a premade queue was introduced it would become useless in a week. With the kind of healing in this game I dont see anyone dying.

    Only a custom lobby system would work if ppl want to intentionally play against the same 11 players for whatever reason
    Edited by PhoenixGrey on February 7, 2020 5:59PM
    DC Sorc: Fading Phoenix
    AD Warden: Grey Phoenix
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