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Developers, please don't change Battlegrounds.

Commandment
Commandment
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First, I would like to say, and give props to the developers of ESO.

I don't usually go on forums to say something, but after reading the PTR, I felt like I had to say something.

This game is a growing game, and hooked me away from WoW after all the continuous terrible expansion releases that kept coming out (Especially BFA) when I realized it was a dying game. It was once a game that took skill and practice, and now it's a watered down game for 5 year olds to play with cookie cutter builds, could probably even be a mobile game one day.

This game showed so much originality on how you can create your own unique character with all the unique skills. Love the mix a matching. The Elder scroll feel.

I feel that removing premade's, duo's or even trios from joining BG's will be very detrimental to your game. Please stop catering to the loud minority of people who always complains when they don't get there way. I'm sure many other people of the silent majority would agree with me, that when we play MMO's we do it to play with other people, and enjoy team play. Couple's, friends, and family will be shut out of some of the best content, and that's a terrible notion to set for a MMO. We love your game, and we usually keep to ourselves if something small happens

No one is asking or telling anyone to play BG's solo, it's the INDIVIDUALS choice to go in that way if he/she feels like it. It ISNT hard to make a 4 man team for BG. Being in a 4 man team doesn't insure you will win. At the end of the day, it comes down to the individual player's skills whether they are good or not. Instead of looking at themselves they look for reasons of why they didnt do so good.

I play solo A LOT, and I can assure you, most of the time I'm carrying my team. I've even had encounters where I killed 4 people solo in the BG and got my achievements for it, and I play a melee type DK. If your team decides to run around like chickens in the middle ( Which other solo players do for some reason) be the the out of box thinker, and go for the objectives. If you know you are not part of a team, YOU should be the one that tries to stick with other players. If you are frustrated about what your teammates are doing YOU should try to take charge instead of trash talking YOU should learn to LEAD, instead of crying. Do you always win even though you try your best? No, but you should be trying to enjoy the experience. Heck some people just go in there to just kill other players and ignore the objectives. I've got plenty of whispers saying "YOUR A FILTHY PREMADE TEAM", and I won't lie I treat them with the same respect and troll them.

At the end of the day, PvP all comes down to the INDIVIDUAL to make a difference I

Someone will always cry about something to divert blame from themselves. If its not premades, its there team, if it's not there team, its the lag, if its not the lag its the magical delay thats not there, if its not that its there class design, ect. You can never make these kind of people happy, they will complain and complain until they make you make your game watered down to cater to people who arent willing to learn mechanics and play.


Joining ESO, I was able to meet the most nicest people at the start when entering the game, and it was very easy to make friends who would tag along in BG's. Please I implore people, please be more social with others, this is a MMORPG, not a single player game. If you want to play elder scrolls alone, you can easily just play skyrim with all the mods in the world.

I would like to continue playing with my family and friends in these contents.

Only solution I could think of is making a new BG type for que'd 1v1 duels, or even a 1v1v1 type match, somewhat like an arena type fight for soloist. But again, someone will complain about something even in a 1v1 duel, will probably even complain that its not fair the enemy has better gear along the lines like "PLEASE REMOVE SET ABILITIES!".

Closing statement, Please don't water down your game, please don't ruin it for people who want a change, and won't touch it after you fixed it for them. It took me 2 days just to sign up to type on these forums, please understand the difficulty for players to give you feed back having them to go through the support to get sign up for these forums, and how it deters people from showing there support. Had to even google how to get an invitation for the forums.
  • Gravord
    Gravord
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    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
  • vamp_emily
    vamp_emily
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    I've only grouped in BG one time and that was because a new player wanted to group up with me. It wasn't like I was grouping with an ELITE player.
    ( another game ) and now it's a watered down game for 5 year olds to play with cookie cutter builds, could probably even be a mobile game one day.

    Don't you think removing premades is kind of like "watering" it down? I do.

    I've played many BGs and came across premade groups, I think the worst was when Sorc Pets were a thing and I was fighting against a premade sorc team. However, BGs are never the same. One match would be a premade, and another match would be pugs.

    I get it, I've seen many players fight in BGs and PvP, it seems most players just want the easy road, no challenge at all. I find premades challenging and a pain at times, but removing them is just watering down BGs.


    Edited by vamp_emily on January 31, 2020 7:35PM

    If you want a friend, get a dog.
    AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)

  • Amksed1991
    Amksed1991
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    Agreed.

    Regardless of feelings, this is a freaking MMO and I should have the option to play aspects of the game with friends.
  • Rhaegar75
    Rhaegar75
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    At the end of the day, PvP all comes down to the INDIVIDUAL to make a difference I

    exactly...then don't moan about premades being removed...you can still have a huge impact even if you entre a random group

  • Weesacs
    Weesacs
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    People play solo; people play in groups. They need to cater for both types of players hence why they need two queues. Hopefully they will do that soon 👍
    High Elf Templar
    PS4 - EU - DC
    Over 37,500 Achievements!
  • darthgummibear_ESO
    darthgummibear_ESO
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    Weesacs wrote: »
    People play solo; people play in groups. They need to cater for both types of players hence why they need two queues. Hopefully they will do that soon 👍

    They can't even make the one queue we currently have function properly, and you want them to make another one?
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)
  • Gravord
    Gravord
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
  • Commandment
    Commandment
    ✭✭✭
    Rhaegar75 wrote: »

    At the end of the day, PvP all comes down to the INDIVIDUAL to make a difference I

    exactly...then don't moan about premades being removed...you can still have a huge impact even if you entre a random group

    Unfortunately some of us have friends we like to play with sometimes. It's an unfortunate truth, but the exact same towards you. Don't moan that duo's trios, or even a full group of 4 is playing.

    You know team cooperation? Its a MMO you know?
  • Commandment
    Commandment
    ✭✭✭
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    Unfortunately I'm going to have to disagree with you, you can't mix RNG and competitive together except for in card games. Randomly picked teams are going to always end up with the funny haha team member that does absolutely nothing. You might even end up without a healer.

    The only best option is to keep BG's as is, and create a ranked system which only goes 4v4 ( I guess a extra 4 would be interesting, more strategy involved). Now you might tell me "But COMMANDMENT the badman who hurt me are still here!" Well a ranked arena typed system would give premades more incentives to make a name for themselves in ranked matches heavily reducing the chances of running into a 4man team in normal BG. Am I saying they will be completely gone? No, but it sets a place where everyone else, even people who like to duo can go to just have some fun.

    My suggestion to give premades more incentives to go into ranked, is a reward system. You would get arena currency to buy things like transmogs, furniture, and sets only attainable from ranked matches at a certain mmr rating. So the higher you go, the more cool s*** you can get. Will these things make you more powerful? Probably not, but you get bragging rights. "Look at my arena trophy furniture bebe!"

    This leaves, regular casual battlegrounds for people who want to test group dynamics, and even a place for people to meet someone, or a group to create there own arena 4man group.
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    I think the reason they are changing it is because code written for matchmaking with MMR system simply doesn’t work, and by the looks of it they don’t have employees or smarts to figure out how to write it so it would work.

    So turning off group Queue and making it solo solves that issue, because then it is individual mmr used.

    Another way of solving the problem would be reverting to original BGs when Morrowind came out. Which was with no MMR. Queues had no issues then, only people were crying louder.

    Actually when BGs were released on PC there were huge issues with queues for few weeks.
  • Gravord
    Gravord
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    I think the reason they are changing it is because code written for matchmaking with MMR system simply doesn’t work, and by the looks of it they don’t have employees or smarts to figure out how to write it so it would work.

    So turning off group Queue and making it solo solves that issue, because then it is individual mmr used.

    Another way of solving the problem would be reverting to original BGs when Morrowind came out. Which was with no MMR. Queues had no issues then, only people were crying louder.

    Actually when BGs were released on PC there were huge issues with queues for few weeks.

    Thats a fail group finder though, not mmr.
  • MrGhosty
    MrGhosty
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    In a perfect world we would have a solo ranked queue, a "any size group" queue, and have a monthly/bi monthly tourney queue for 4 mans and solos.

    If this change sticks past it's "experimental" phase, I'll be bummed and likely play less BGs. I'm not afraid of running solo, I just don't enjoy it. I have enjoyed running as a duo much more because no matter the other two on our team, my wife and I can setup a working strategy and that is more fun in my book.

    If they remove the ability for premade groups to join BGs, I hope they will at least make it possible to queue up private matches so that guilds can play against other guilds or just internally (no rewards of course, that would be abused like woah).
    "It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom."
  • Rampeal
    Rampeal
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    There is no winning, only the lesser of evils

    If you keep BGs the same you will have problems.

    If you add a 4v4 team and a 4v4 random you will have problems. Because as soon as these teams that are used to stomping randoms comes across a Elite team they will just head back to Randoms or Cry on forums.

    My personal opinion it should be like this.

    Cydrodil: Teams
    BGs: Random

    And as far as the OP complaint that teams have nothing to do with winning BGs is complete BS. Let's see how long those High Dps Glass cannons last without their Voice chat coordinated pocket heals. Not long I think.
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.
  • Gravord
    Gravord
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    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.

    But dont you see the issue in it? By turning it into such pugfest crucial force driving players to get better - fear of getting stomped a little bit to hard - will be gone. It will create lazy, complacent enviroment. Blaming those evil nasty premades will be gone, replaced by "i had worse randoms on my side". And as evil nasty premades might be, many players respond to them in correct way - getting better, improving their chars/builds/sets and self organizing into groups themselves. All that taken away will turn game into pure shitshow with quality of the fights and players participating in them, gone. Competition, gone.
    ESO is already way too casual in many regards, i really do not wish bgs degrade to please few lazy ppl who cant be arsed to make teams if they so much fear "premades". Term itself too loosely thrown around this forum, overstretched to the limits where any totally random pugs not splitting like morons and actually supporting each other in a match are considered to be a premade instantly by clueless solo runners ruining score of their own team.
  • Rampeal
    Rampeal
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    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.

    But dont you see the issue in it? By turning it into such pugfest crucial force driving players to get better - fear of getting stomped a little bit to hard - will be gone. It will create lazy, complacent enviroment. Blaming those evil nasty premades will be gone, replaced by "i had worse randoms on my side". And as evil nasty premades might be, many players respond to them in correct way - getting better, improving their chars/builds/sets and self organizing into groups themselves. All that taken away will turn game into pure shitshow with quality of the fights and players participating in them, gone. Competition, gone.
    ESO is already way too casual in many regards, i really do not wish bgs degrade to please few lazy ppl who cant be arsed to make teams if they so much fear "premades". Term itself too loosely thrown around this forum, overstretched to the limits where any totally random pugs not splitting like morons and actually supporting each other in a match are considered to be a premade instantly by clueless solo runners ruining score of their own team.

    See I am the opposite. Can't count how many times I have seen premades get carried by one or two players while the other two just sit back pocket heal, CC, and support. Especially in TDM.

    I just think that many of the premades know that with out their teammates they are not as skilled as they claim to be and will actually have to put in the effort to increase their individual skill.

    The whole "Having a premade rofl stomp you 4 vs 1 just means you need to L2P and git gud" argument just doesn't hold no merit whatsoever.
  • Gravord
    Gravord
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.

    But dont you see the issue in it? By turning it into such pugfest crucial force driving players to get better - fear of getting stomped a little bit to hard - will be gone. It will create lazy, complacent enviroment. Blaming those evil nasty premades will be gone, replaced by "i had worse randoms on my side". And as evil nasty premades might be, many players respond to them in correct way - getting better, improving their chars/builds/sets and self organizing into groups themselves. All that taken away will turn game into pure shitshow with quality of the fights and players participating in them, gone. Competition, gone.
    ESO is already way too casual in many regards, i really do not wish bgs degrade to please few lazy ppl who cant be arsed to make teams if they so much fear "premades". Term itself too loosely thrown around this forum, overstretched to the limits where any totally random pugs not splitting like morons and actually supporting each other in a match are considered to be a premade instantly by clueless solo runners ruining score of their own team.

    See I am the opposite. Can't count how many times I have seen premades get carried by one or two players while the other two just sit back pocket heal, CC, and support. Especially in TDM.

    I just think that many of the premades know that with out their teammates they are not as skilled as they claim to be and will actually have to put in the effort to increase their individual skill.

    The whole "Having a premade rofl stomp you 4 vs 1 just means you need to L2P and git gud" argument just doesn't hold no merit whatsoever.

    Thats not how any of this works. Person healing team is doing his part. If one or two ppl "carry" then its not a real premade and you shouldnt struggle against them in the first place.

    "Not as skilled without their team mates" is classic bs used by everyone running same all around boring spec that include some dmg, some self heals and some self sustain. Maybe not everyone want run same build and want to specialize? And that works best in team. Swapping to same build as everyone else is not increasing skills, is making pvp worse.

    And the argument is not 4vs1 you so git gud. Argument is, make your own team and beat them. Bg is a 4 man content, for a reason. You want perform better in it, you need 4 ppl working for the team success.
    Edited by Gravord on February 3, 2020 3:52PM
  • luizpaulom17
    luizpaulom17
    ✭✭✭
    First, I would like to say, and give props to the developers of ESO.

    I don't usually go on forums to say something, but after reading the PTR, I felt like I had to say something.

    This game is a growing game, and hooked me away from WoW after all the continuous terrible expansion releases that kept coming out (Especially BFA) when I realized it was a dying game. It was once a game that took skill and practice, and now it's a watered down game for 5 year olds to play with cookie cutter builds, could probably even be a mobile game one day.

    This game showed so much originality on how you can create your own unique character with all the unique skills. Love the mix a matching. The Elder scroll feel.

    I feel that removing premade's, duo's or even trios from joining BG's will be very detrimental to your game. Please stop catering to the loud minority of people who always complains when they don't get there way. I'm sure many other people of the silent majority would agree with me, that when we play MMO's we do it to play with other people, and enjoy team play. Couple's, friends, and family will be shut out of some of the best content, and that's a terrible notion to set for a MMO. We love your game, and we usually keep to ourselves if something small happens

    No one is asking or telling anyone to play BG's solo, it's the INDIVIDUALS choice to go in that way if he/she feels like it. It ISNT hard to make a 4 man team for BG. Being in a 4 man team doesn't insure you will win. At the end of the day, it comes down to the individual player's skills whether they are good or not. Instead of looking at themselves they look for reasons of why they didnt do so good.

    I play solo A LOT, and I can assure you, most of the time I'm carrying my team. I've even had encounters where I killed 4 people solo in the BG and got my achievements for it, and I play a melee type DK. If your team decides to run around like chickens in the middle ( Which other solo players do for some reason) be the the out of box thinker, and go for the objectives. If you know you are not part of a team, YOU should be the one that tries to stick with other players. If you are frustrated about what your teammates are doing YOU should try to take charge instead of trash talking YOU should learn to LEAD, instead of crying. Do you always win even though you try your best? No, but you should be trying to enjoy the experience. Heck some people just go in there to just kill other players and ignore the objectives. I've got plenty of whispers saying "YOUR A FILTHY PREMADE TEAM", and I won't lie I treat them with the same respect and troll them.

    At the end of the day, PvP all comes down to the INDIVIDUAL to make a difference I

    Someone will always cry about something to divert blame from themselves. If its not premades, its there team, if it's not there team, its the lag, if its not the lag its the magical delay thats not there, if its not that its there class design, ect. You can never make these kind of people happy, they will complain and complain until they make you make your game watered down to cater to people who arent willing to learn mechanics and play.


    Joining ESO, I was able to meet the most nicest people at the start when entering the game, and it was very easy to make friends who would tag along in BG's. Please I implore people, please be more social with others, this is a MMORPG, not a single player game. If you want to play elder scrolls alone, you can easily just play skyrim with all the mods in the world.

    I would like to continue playing with my family and friends in these contents.

    Only solution I could think of is making a new BG type for que'd 1v1 duels, or even a 1v1v1 type match, somewhat like an arena type fight for soloist. But again, someone will complain about something even in a 1v1 duel, will probably even complain that its not fair the enemy has better gear along the lines like "PLEASE REMOVE SET ABILITIES!".

    Closing statement, Please don't water down your game, please don't ruin it for people who want a change, and won't touch it after you fixed it for them. It took me 2 days just to sign up to type on these forums, please understand the difficulty for players to give you feed back having them to go through the support to get sign up for these forums, and how it deters people from showing there support. Had to even google how to get an invitation for the forums.

    I Will be laughing at U while I play some cool Ranked arenas on wow! Meanwhile, keep playing broken Bgs which U wont be able to play with your friends on the next patch! Peace out!
    Edited by luizpaulom17 on February 3, 2020 4:20PM
  • Rampeal
    Rampeal
    ✭✭✭✭
    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.

    But dont you see the issue in it? By turning it into such pugfest crucial force driving players to get better - fear of getting stomped a little bit to hard - will be gone. It will create lazy, complacent enviroment. Blaming those evil nasty premades will be gone, replaced by "i had worse randoms on my side". And as evil nasty premades might be, many players respond to them in correct way - getting better, improving their chars/builds/sets and self organizing into groups themselves. All that taken away will turn game into pure shitshow with quality of the fights and players participating in them, gone. Competition, gone.
    ESO is already way too casual in many regards, i really do not wish bgs degrade to please few lazy ppl who cant be arsed to make teams if they so much fear "premades". Term itself too loosely thrown around this forum, overstretched to the limits where any totally random pugs not splitting like morons and actually supporting each other in a match are considered to be a premade instantly by clueless solo runners ruining score of their own team.

    See I am the opposite. Can't count how many times I have seen premades get carried by one or two players while the other two just sit back pocket heal, CC, and support. Especially in TDM.

    I just think that many of the premades know that with out their teammates they are not as skilled as they claim to be and will actually have to put in the effort to increase their individual skill.

    The whole "Having a premade rofl stomp you 4 vs 1 just means you need to L2P and git gud" argument just doesn't hold no merit whatsoever.

    Thats not how any of this works. Person healing team is doing his part. If one or two ppl "carry" then its not a real premade and you shouldnt struggle against them in the first place.

    "Not as skilled without their team mates" is classic bs used by everyone running same all around boring spec that include some dmg, some self heals and some self sustain. Maybe not everyone want run same build and want to specialize? And that works best in team. Swapping to same build as everyone else is not increasing skills, is making pvp worse.

    And the argument is not 4vs1 you so git gud. Argument is, make your own team and beat them. Bg is a 4 man content, for a reason. You want perform better in it, you need 4 ppl working for the team success.

    I could sit here and debate back and fourth all day, but don't think I will. BGs was made for Random solo queues. Plain and simple.

    And no I should not have to make a team to enter a RANDOM BG queue. That's the reason the team finder exists not for Premades to abuse and boost off of randoms teams.

    You want to do Premade go to Cyrodil or Imperial city.

  • Gravord
    Gravord
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.

    But dont you see the issue in it? By turning it into such pugfest crucial force driving players to get better - fear of getting stomped a little bit to hard - will be gone. It will create lazy, complacent enviroment. Blaming those evil nasty premades will be gone, replaced by "i had worse randoms on my side". And as evil nasty premades might be, many players respond to them in correct way - getting better, improving their chars/builds/sets and self organizing into groups themselves. All that taken away will turn game into pure shitshow with quality of the fights and players participating in them, gone. Competition, gone.
    ESO is already way too casual in many regards, i really do not wish bgs degrade to please few lazy ppl who cant be arsed to make teams if they so much fear "premades". Term itself too loosely thrown around this forum, overstretched to the limits where any totally random pugs not splitting like morons and actually supporting each other in a match are considered to be a premade instantly by clueless solo runners ruining score of their own team.

    See I am the opposite. Can't count how many times I have seen premades get carried by one or two players while the other two just sit back pocket heal, CC, and support. Especially in TDM.

    I just think that many of the premades know that with out their teammates they are not as skilled as they claim to be and will actually have to put in the effort to increase their individual skill.

    The whole "Having a premade rofl stomp you 4 vs 1 just means you need to L2P and git gud" argument just doesn't hold no merit whatsoever.

    Thats not how any of this works. Person healing team is doing his part. If one or two ppl "carry" then its not a real premade and you shouldnt struggle against them in the first place.

    "Not as skilled without their team mates" is classic bs used by everyone running same all around boring spec that include some dmg, some self heals and some self sustain. Maybe not everyone want run same build and want to specialize? And that works best in team. Swapping to same build as everyone else is not increasing skills, is making pvp worse.

    And the argument is not 4vs1 you so git gud. Argument is, make your own team and beat them. Bg is a 4 man content, for a reason. You want perform better in it, you need 4 ppl working for the team success.

    I could sit here and debate back and fourth all day, but don't think I will. BGs was made for Random solo queues. Plain and simple.

    And no I should not have to make a team to enter a RANDOM BG queue. That's the reason the team finder exists not for Premades to abuse and boost off of randoms teams.

    You want to do Premade go to Cyrodil or Imperial city.

    You want go solo go to Cyrodiil or Imperial city. Same failed logic can be applied. Bg are group content, like it or not. I dont mind adding solo q only hovewer, but not as ONLY option for bgs at all, thats ridiculous solution.

    Im sure you are going to dlc dungs for speed no death hm runs with random q too :wink:
  • Commandment
    Commandment
    ✭✭✭
    First, I would like to say, and give props to the developers of ESO.

    I don't usually go on forums to say something, but after reading the PTR, I felt like I had to say something.

    This game is a growing game, and hooked me away from WoW after all the continuous terrible expansion releases that kept coming out (Especially BFA) when I realized it was a dying game. It was once a game that took skill and practice, and now it's a watered down game for 5 year olds to play with cookie cutter builds, could probably even be a mobile game one day.

    This game showed so much originality on how you can create your own unique character with all the unique skills. Love the mix a matching. The Elder scroll feel.

    I feel that removing premade's, duo's or even trios from joining BG's will be very detrimental to your game. Please stop catering to the loud minority of people who always complains when they don't get there way. I'm sure many other people of the silent majority would agree with me, that when we play MMO's we do it to play with other people, and enjoy team play. Couple's, friends, and family will be shut out of some of the best content, and that's a terrible notion to set for a MMO. We love your game, and we usually keep to ourselves if something small happens

    No one is asking or telling anyone to play BG's solo, it's the INDIVIDUALS choice to go in that way if he/she feels like it. It ISNT hard to make a 4 man team for BG. Being in a 4 man team doesn't insure you will win. At the end of the day, it comes down to the individual player's skills whether they are good or not. Instead of looking at themselves they look for reasons of why they didnt do so good.

    I play solo A LOT, and I can assure you, most of the time I'm carrying my team. I've even had encounters where I killed 4 people solo in the BG and got my achievements for it, and I play a melee type DK. If your team decides to run around like chickens in the middle ( Which other solo players do for some reason) be the the out of box thinker, and go for the objectives. If you know you are not part of a team, YOU should be the one that tries to stick with other players. If you are frustrated about what your teammates are doing YOU should try to take charge instead of trash talking YOU should learn to LEAD, instead of crying. Do you always win even though you try your best? No, but you should be trying to enjoy the experience. Heck some people just go in there to just kill other players and ignore the objectives. I've got plenty of whispers saying "YOUR A FILTHY PREMADE TEAM", and I won't lie I treat them with the same respect and troll them.

    At the end of the day, PvP all comes down to the INDIVIDUAL to make a difference I

    Someone will always cry about something to divert blame from themselves. If its not premades, its there team, if it's not there team, its the lag, if its not the lag its the magical delay thats not there, if its not that its there class design, ect. You can never make these kind of people happy, they will complain and complain until they make you make your game watered down to cater to people who arent willing to learn mechanics and play.


    Joining ESO, I was able to meet the most nicest people at the start when entering the game, and it was very easy to make friends who would tag along in BG's. Please I implore people, please be more social with others, this is a MMORPG, not a single player game. If you want to play elder scrolls alone, you can easily just play skyrim with all the mods in the world.

    I would like to continue playing with my family and friends in these contents.

    Only solution I could think of is making a new BG type for que'd 1v1 duels, or even a 1v1v1 type match, somewhat like an arena type fight for soloist. But again, someone will complain about something even in a 1v1 duel, will probably even complain that its not fair the enemy has better gear along the lines like "PLEASE REMOVE SET ABILITIES!".

    Closing statement, Please don't water down your game, please don't ruin it for people who want a change, and won't touch it after you fixed it for them. It took me 2 days just to sign up to type on these forums, please understand the difficulty for players to give you feed back having them to go through the support to get sign up for these forums, and how it deters people from showing there support. Had to even google how to get an invitation for the forums.

    I Will be laughing at U while I play some cool Ranked arenas on wow! Meanwhile, keep playing broken Bgs which U wont be able to play with your friends on the next patch! Peace out!

    If you find pole dancing, and a world where a healer can solo any dps, have fun! But hey! Why are you on ESO forum if wow is so good? Lol
  • Commandment
    Commandment
    ✭✭✭
    Rampeal wrote: »
    There is no winning, only the lesser of evils

    If you keep BGs the same you will have problems.

    If you add a 4v4 team and a 4v4 random you will have problems. Because as soon as these teams that are used to stomping randoms comes across a Elite team they will just head back to Randoms or Cry on forums.

    My personal opinion it should be like this.

    Cydrodil: Teams
    BGs: Random

    And as far as the OP complaint that teams have nothing to do with winning BGs is complete BS. Let's see how long those High Dps Glass cannons last without their Voice chat coordinated pocket heals. Not long I think.

    You know a person can easily take down a healer in this game, if one person targets the healer, it would force him to heal himself rather than his team. Again if your strategy in battle is to get aggroed by the dps, your already doing it wrong.

    Second, if the enemy team had this "random pug healer" and he's competent it would still be the same outcome. Because your still targeting the people whose getting heals.
  • Commandment
    Commandment
    ✭✭✭
    xWarbrain wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.

    People are acting like this change is suddenly making it so its no longer "group content". 4 people is still a group whether you know the other 3 or not.

    I have friends I can play BGs with. But its boring to steamroll everyone else when the other teams are clearly not 4-man premade teams. Also, I hate my friends and I'm better than them, and I want the leaderboard to prove as a solo player that I can outplay them In BGs. Because I'm awesome. And I never liked them. :D

    One could say its the premades who are the crybabies because they're refusing to put the effort into getting better and need their friends to carry them. Burn.

    I can't wait for this change.

    Lol okay, so i made the your key arguments be put in bold.

    If you were so good and amazing, "I dont need no team" Then just solo as is lol. You clearly state your so good at outplays you don't need those "friends" that you apparently hate.

    Sorry my dude but being a narcissist, and having over confidence doesnt mean your good. From my experiences with working in many teams in rl. It's always the talker with the most useless set of skills that have the "I DID EVERYTHING" attitude. Burn

    I'm 100% sure these are the people I do funny animations at when i murder them in the BG's and they come whispering hate messages telling me im a premade, when im solo. Lol

  • LordLomax
    LordLomax
    ✭✭✭✭
    I can’t wait for the pre mades to be taken out of the bg and queue with randoms , makes it much more fun . Iv joined a team with only 60 and leaders have 200 and playing catch up is great challenge 😀 alternatively. Premades play only with premades . I think should go further duelling should be only at the arena not at wayshrines or undaunted places 🤬
  • Commandment
    Commandment
    ✭✭✭
    LordLomax wrote: »
    I can’t wait for the pre mades to be taken out of the bg and queue with randoms , makes it much more fun . Iv joined a team with only 60 and leaders have 200 and playing catch up is great challenge 😀 alternatively. Premades play only with premades . I think should go further duelling should be only at the arena not at wayshrines or undaunted places 🤬

    Better yet, we should just remove all pvp in cyrodiil, and replace it with something called "Warmode" Not everyone else wants there feeling to be hurt. You can opt out of PvP and play PVE and fight castles on your own so you can be the solo hero.

    As for the dueling, forget the only at arenas, just remove it! It's a display of privilege! Remove it! It will hurt someones feelings!! 🤬🤬🤬
  • Rampeal
    Rampeal
    ✭✭✭✭
    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.

    But dont you see the issue in it? By turning it into such pugfest crucial force driving players to get better - fear of getting stomped a little bit to hard - will be gone. It will create lazy, complacent enviroment. Blaming those evil nasty premades will be gone, replaced by "i had worse randoms on my side". And as evil nasty premades might be, many players respond to them in correct way - getting better, improving their chars/builds/sets and self organizing into groups themselves. All that taken away will turn game into pure shitshow with quality of the fights and players participating in them, gone. Competition, gone.
    ESO is already way too casual in many regards, i really do not wish bgs degrade to please few lazy ppl who cant be arsed to make teams if they so much fear "premades". Term itself too loosely thrown around this forum, overstretched to the limits where any totally random pugs not splitting like morons and actually supporting each other in a match are considered to be a premade instantly by clueless solo runners ruining score of their own team.

    See I am the opposite. Can't count how many times I have seen premades get carried by one or two players while the other two just sit back pocket heal, CC, and support. Especially in TDM.

    I just think that many of the premades know that with out their teammates they are not as skilled as they claim to be and will actually have to put in the effort to increase their individual skill.

    The whole "Having a premade rofl stomp you 4 vs 1 just means you need to L2P and git gud" argument just doesn't hold no merit whatsoever.

    Thats not how any of this works. Person healing team is doing his part. If one or two ppl "carry" then its not a real premade and you shouldnt struggle against them in the first place.

    "Not as skilled without their team mates" is classic bs used by everyone running same all around boring spec that include some dmg, some self heals and some self sustain. Maybe not everyone want run same build and want to specialize? And that works best in team. Swapping to same build as everyone else is not increasing skills, is making pvp worse.

    And the argument is not 4vs1 you so git gud. Argument is, make your own team and beat them. Bg is a 4 man content, for a reason. You want perform better in it, you need 4 ppl working for the team success.

    I could sit here and debate back and fourth all day, but don't think I will. BGs was made for Random solo queues. Plain and simple.

    And no I should not have to make a team to enter a RANDOM BG queue. That's the reason the team finder exists not for Premades to abuse and boost off of randoms teams.

    You want to do Premade go to Cyrodil or Imperial city.

    You want go solo go to Cyrodiil or Imperial city. Same failed logic can be applied. Bg are group content, like it or not. I dont mind adding solo q only hovewer, but not as ONLY option for bgs at all, thats ridiculous solution.

    Im sure you are going to dlc dungs for speed no death hm runs with random q too :wink:
    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    Rampeal wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    wheem_ESO wrote: »
    Gravord wrote: »
    stelegrega wrote: »
    @Commandment while you are absolutely correct on many points, I don’t think they are changing it because people who aren’t good enough are crying.

    Its exactly the reason. Catering to crybabies who refuse to put effort into getting better and organizing own teams. Easier to demand everything dumped down to their level than improve themselves after all.
    I've explained this to people quite a few times over the last several years, but here we go again: It isn't that I don't want to put "effort" into forming a premade team, or that I'm some kind of hermit that never speaks to another player, or whatever other accusations the "I group queue >= 90% of the time I'm in BGs" crowd wants to make.

    Instead, the actual issue is that I want matches to be as competitive as possible. If I form up some super-tryhard premade, I know that we're going to frequently end up stomping on groups of random, solo-queued players, who may not even have a full group of 4, and I find that to be very boring. On the other hand, it's also incredibly boring to solo queue into a game against premade groups that are focus-firing and ult-dumping with a dedicated healer, while my team consists of me, a Stamblade on a Cyrodiil ganker build, and a Stamina Dra...wait nevermind, that dude just left when he saw the premade, and we didn't have a 4th.

    The best option, in my opinion, is to have the current BG system be limited exclusively to solo queued players, then add something that's more akin to WoW's arena system. In this hypothetical new "mode," you would need to queue with a full group, and be put up against one enemy team, with a visible team rating and ladder system. That would require a bit more effort on ZOS' part, but if done well could bring more people into the game.

    The second best option, which wouldn't require nearly as much work, would be to split the current iteration of Battlegrounds into two separate queues; one for solo-only, and one for groups. I personally think the group queued portion would probably be a ghost town most of the time, but it would at least allow for the organization of 4v4v4 games of all premades, as has happened in the past (and some people may still do now?)

    And as ive explained, turning it into pugfest wont make it competitive. Team that get healer have 95% win chance if 2 other teams have no healer. In what world is that competitive? Team getting more braindead pugs who will be around team only in spawn for first 5s and then never to be seen again will inevitably loose.
    You want competitive? 4vs4 deathmatch is whats needed for that. No third team flanking, no three teams dodging fight to not get surrounded, but 4vs4, hardcore fight, 2 rounds won end bg, exactly as SWTOR have, it would work perfect in ESO.
    Turning it into a "pugfest" is certainly more competitive than the current system, even if an opposing team has a healer and yours doesn't. Being simultaneously triple/quad ult-dumped is a very real thing against coordinated premade groups, and is vastly less common when going against randoms. And since everyone will be queueing in solo, there's a chance that you'll get on the same team with the healer at some point - not so when he/she is tryhard premading.

    So even if individual matches are terribly lopsided, it's less likely that all of the ones you play over any given session will be. There was a stretch of time in the past where my Magicka Warden was essentially guaranteed to go up against at least 1 full premade, and never even have a full team of 4 randoms throughout the entire match.

    Perfect balance and competition isn't achievable, but having the option of a purely-solo queue is a step in the right direction. I think premade-vs-premade should exist as well, but I'd still consider this an overall improvement.

    But dont you see the issue in it? By turning it into such pugfest crucial force driving players to get better - fear of getting stomped a little bit to hard - will be gone. It will create lazy, complacent enviroment. Blaming those evil nasty premades will be gone, replaced by "i had worse randoms on my side". And as evil nasty premades might be, many players respond to them in correct way - getting better, improving their chars/builds/sets and self organizing into groups themselves. All that taken away will turn game into pure shitshow with quality of the fights and players participating in them, gone. Competition, gone.
    ESO is already way too casual in many regards, i really do not wish bgs degrade to please few lazy ppl who cant be arsed to make teams if they so much fear "premades". Term itself too loosely thrown around this forum, overstretched to the limits where any totally random pugs not splitting like morons and actually supporting each other in a match are considered to be a premade instantly by clueless solo runners ruining score of their own team.

    See I am the opposite. Can't count how many times I have seen premades get carried by one or two players while the other two just sit back pocket heal, CC, and support. Especially in TDM.

    I just think that many of the premades know that with out their teammates they are not as skilled as they claim to be and will actually have to put in the effort to increase their individual skill.

    The whole "Having a premade rofl stomp you 4 vs 1 just means you need to L2P and git gud" argument just doesn't hold no merit whatsoever.

    Thats not how any of this works. Person healing team is doing his part. If one or two ppl "carry" then its not a real premade and you shouldnt struggle against them in the first place.

    "Not as skilled without their team mates" is classic bs used by everyone running same all around boring spec that include some dmg, some self heals and some self sustain. Maybe not everyone want run same build and want to specialize? And that works best in team. Swapping to same build as everyone else is not increasing skills, is making pvp worse.

    And the argument is not 4vs1 you so git gud. Argument is, make your own team and beat them. Bg is a 4 man content, for a reason. You want perform better in it, you need 4 ppl working for the team success.

    I could sit here and debate back and fourth all day, but don't think I will. BGs was made for Random solo queues. Plain and simple.

    And no I should not have to make a team to enter a RANDOM BG queue. That's the reason the team finder exists not for Premades to abuse and boost off of randoms teams.

    You want to do Premade go to Cyrodil or Imperial city.

    You want go solo go to Cyrodiil or Imperial city. Same failed logic can be applied. Bg are group content, like it or not. I dont mind adding solo q only hovewer, but not as ONLY option for bgs at all, thats ridiculous solution.

    Im sure you are going to dlc dungs for speed no death hm runs with random q too :wink:

    Last I checked you the only reason to run a DLC dungeon no death, hard mode, speedrun is to get the achievements. And yes you do need a premade for that. However to complete a Vet Dungeon does not require a Premade.

    BG Achivement can be completed 100% with random or premade groups and are completely solo friendly. You sir are arguing Apples and Oranges. Nice try though 😎

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