In general let's give build diversity to monster set to also proc with heavy attack

phoenixkungfu

I tried of playing meta builds. I was playing a meta pet less sorcerer build the other day. I must admit it's by far the most effective. However after 5 years of sorcerer its boring. Which is why I love heavyattack builds. It's just style points in my opinion to see cool animations. So it would be great build diversity to have better options with monster helmets set that proc with light attack to also proc with damage done with heavy attack. This change would create great favor to the gameplay. Set like kena and new Kjalnar’s Nightmare. Would be amazing with this change

idk

We already have several monster sets that can work off heavy attacks and suite both stamina and magicka builds.

Maw of the Infernal
Zaan
Spawn of Mephala

Zos is happy to have helped. However, that does not mean every set that procs off LAs should also work with HAs just as not every set that works off HAs also works with LAs.

relentless_turnip

Light attacks generally synergies better with the majority of combat.
Any experienced player is weaving anyway and item proc's occurring during paced combat feel better to me personally.

Heavy attacks kind of kill that fast flowing combat that is so enjoyable about ESO.
There is nothing wrong with a set proccing off of both, but I'd rather it was LA rather than a HA.

phoenixkungfu

idk wrote: »

We already have several monster sets that can work off heavy attacks and suite both stamina and magicka builds.

Maw of the Infernal
Zaan
Spawn of Mephala

Zos is happy to have helped. However, that does not mean every set that procs off LAs should also work with HAs just as not every set that works off HAs also works with LAs.

This is true but these set are overall not guarantee burst sets like Kjalnar’s Nightmare or kena is. It would be nice for build diversity if proc conditions was heavy attack damage done.

phoenixkungfu

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Light attacks generally synergies better with the majority of combat.
Any experienced player is weaving anyway and item proc's occurring during paced combat feel better to me personally.

Heavy attacks kind of kill that fast flowing combat that is so enjoyable about ESO.
There is nothing wrong with a set proccing off of both, but I'd rather it was LA rather than a HA.

Build diversity is a major issue in gameplay in my opinion. Heavy attack proc conditions synergy would honestly make unpopular monster sets competitive with other sets. Reliable proc conditions is a major issue way some monster sets are not use. Honestly a heavy attack magic nightblade with Kjalnar’s Nightmare could be more effective then just a light attack. Options to have heavy attack damage done and light attack would create more build diversity.

Woodenplank

My favourite build used to be a stamina Dragonknight that used Molten Armaments (40% Heavy attack damage buff) wove heavy attacks between applying dots.
Truly it wasn't the most riveting build, with no spamable. But I liked it because no one class could make it work (without 40% buff), and it actually used heavy attacks for once, and you could use sets like Mephala's.

Nowadays everyone really just uses spamable+dots+LA weaving and the same 2-3 monster sets.
It's not that off-meta builds don't work. There's just no incentive to use them, when the meta item sets are better and generally easy to obtain.

We got a good discussion on build variety and item sets going on in this thread, if you wanna hop over and give some suggestions.
(Idea is to introduce class-specific sets to encourage item variety and give each class a unique contribution to Trial groups, etc.)

phoenixkungfu

Woodenplank wrote: »

My favourite build used to be a stamina Dragonknight that used Molten Armaments (40% Heavy attack damage buff) wove heavy attacks between applying dots.
Truly it wasn't the most riveting build, with no spamable. But I liked it because no one class could make it work (without 40% buff), and it actually used heavy attacks for once, and you could use sets like Mephala's.

Nowadays everyone really just uses spamable+dots+LA weaving and the same 2-3 monster sets.
It's not that off-meta builds don't work. There's just no incentive to use them, when the meta item sets are better and generally easy to obtain.

We got a good discussion on build variety and item sets going on in this thread, if you wanna hop over and give some suggestions.
(Idea is to introduce class-specific sets to encourage item variety and give each class a unique contribution to Trial groups, etc.)

The facts is you can play meta but honestly I dont like to play meta. In my example of sorcerer I can play to my class strength. Which is mainly range and mobility. However I like the cool factor of heavy attack overload. It's fun to see and feel a different playstyle. Honestly this is the main reason why I keep playing 1 class for 4 year. Build diversity is important. Hopefully the developers will understand this and make some changes. In favor of build diversity.

relentless_turnip

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Light attacks generally synergies better with the majority of combat.
Any experienced player is weaving anyway and item proc's occurring during paced combat feel better to me personally.

Heavy attacks kind of kill that fast flowing combat that is so enjoyable about ESO.
There is nothing wrong with a set proccing off of both, but I'd rather it was LA rather than a HA.

Build diversity is a major issue in gameplay in my opinion. Heavy attack proc conditions synergy would honestly make unpopular monster sets competitive with other sets. Reliable proc conditions is a major issue way some monster sets are not use. Honestly a heavy attack magic nightblade with Kjalnar’s Nightmare could be more effective then just a light attack. Options to have heavy attack damage done and light attack would create more build diversity.

I don't think adding a heavy attack promotes build diversity... You can make a heavy attack build on a MagDK with molten arnaments, knight slayer and zaan's that would be viable.

It just isn't fun

In all honesty I feel heavy attacks are what you like, but I don't feel they are very popular if we looked at the greater majority.
I don't think it would do any harm to add them to sets as a proc... I just don't think anyone would be that psyched by it to be honest.

phoenixkungfu

relentless_turnip wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Light attacks generally synergies better with the majority of combat.
Any experienced player is weaving anyway and item proc's occurring during paced combat feel better to me personally.

Heavy attacks kind of kill that fast flowing combat that is so enjoyable about ESO.
There is nothing wrong with a set proccing off of both, but I'd rather it was LA rather than a HA.

Build diversity is a major issue in gameplay in my opinion. Heavy attack proc conditions synergy would honestly make unpopular monster sets competitive with other sets. Reliable proc conditions is a major issue way some monster sets are not use. Honestly a heavy attack magic nightblade with Kjalnar’s Nightmare could be more effective then just a light attack. Options to have heavy attack damage done and light attack would create more build diversity.

I don't think adding a heavy attack promotes build diversity... You can make a heavy attack build on a MagDK with molten arnaments, knight slayer and zaan's that would be viable.

It just isn't fun

In all honesty I feel heavy attacks are what you like, but I don't feel they are very popular if we looked at the greater majority.
I don't think it would do any harm to add them to sets as a proc... I just don't think anyone would be that psyched by it to be honest.

Smh they remove heavy attack bonus from molten. Honestly build diversity with monster helmets set would greatly increase time to kill. Maybe lightning staffs or healing would become meta over fire staff based on utility of offense against dodge roll builds. Or stam builds could time a burst with a heavy attack. The possibility are limited with just light attack proc conditions. Which limits the build diversity.

relentless_turnip

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Light attacks generally synergies better with the majority of combat.
Any experienced player is weaving anyway and item proc's occurring during paced combat feel better to me personally.

Heavy attacks kind of kill that fast flowing combat that is so enjoyable about ESO.
There is nothing wrong with a set proccing off of both, but I'd rather it was LA rather than a HA.

Build diversity is a major issue in gameplay in my opinion. Heavy attack proc conditions synergy would honestly make unpopular monster sets competitive with other sets. Reliable proc conditions is a major issue way some monster sets are not use. Honestly a heavy attack magic nightblade with Kjalnar’s Nightmare could be more effective then just a light attack. Options to have heavy attack damage done and light attack would create more build diversity.

I don't think adding a heavy attack promotes build diversity... You can make a heavy attack build on a MagDK with molten arnaments, knight slayer and zaan's that would be viable.

It just isn't fun

In all honesty I feel heavy attacks are what you like, but I don't feel they are very popular if we looked at the greater majority.
I don't think it would do any harm to add them to sets as a proc... I just don't think anyone would be that psyched by it to be honest.

Smh they remove heavy attack bonus from molten. Honestly build diversity with monster helmets set would greatly increase time to kill. Maybe lightning staffs or healing would become meta over fire staff based on utility of offense against dodge roll builds. Or stam builds could time a burst with a heavy attack. The possibility are limited with just light attack proc conditions. Which limits the build diversity.

How does a big slow charged attack help with time to kill? unless coupling it with delayed burst, but you'd still be better off to do LA-Skill... it would do more damage. Emphasising holding one button gameplay will not improve someone's opportunity to kill, unless you are utilising with off balance to stun... otherwise it is a redundant comment

Flame staff's are only the meta to a single target, read the destro passives... it is why so many use it in pvp, but a frost staff is effective too if you want a more defensive set up. Lightning will always be the choice for aoe damage.

I main a MagDK you still get a 40% increase to your heavy attacks with molten arnaments...
Stam builds already utilise heavy/medium attack if they're using dizzy as their spammable.
I appreciate you like heavy attacks, but I'm not confident you know what you're talking about...

MellowMagic

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 50 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Edit: 50 not 40 percent boost*

phoenixkungfu

MellowMagic wrote: »

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 40 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Smh once again they nerf armaments. It no longer gives a heavy attack bonus. I dont agree with this because it nerf build diversity.

MellowMagic

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 40 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Smh once again they nerf armaments. It no longer gives a heavy attack bonus. I dont agree with this because it nerf build diversity.

When did they nerf it I cant seem to see that on the pts patch notes last week and it currently empowers heavy attacks on live.

phoenixkungfu

MellowMagic wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 40 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Smh once again they nerf armaments. It no longer gives a heavy attack bonus. I dont agree with this because it nerf build diversity.

When did they nerf it I cant seem to see that on the pts patch notes last week and it currently empowers heavy attacks on live.

Maybe like 3 patches ago or so.

phoenixkungfu

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 40 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Smh once again they nerf armaments. It no longer gives a heavy attack bonus. I dont agree with this because it nerf build diversity.

When did they nerf it I cant seem to see that on the pts patch notes last week and it currently empowers heavy attacks on live.

Maybe like 3 patches ago or so.

I will double check just to make sure

MellowMagic

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 40 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Smh once again they nerf armaments. It no longer gives a heavy attack bonus. I dont agree with this because it nerf build diversity.

When did they nerf it I cant seem to see that on the pts patch notes last week and it currently empowers heavy attacks on live.

Maybe like 3 patches ago or so.

I just went on my magdk. It still gives 50 percent damage increase to heavy attacks...

phoenixkungfu

MellowMagic wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 40 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Smh once again they nerf armaments. It no longer gives a heavy attack bonus. I dont agree with this because it nerf build diversity.

When did they nerf it I cant seem to see that on the pts patch notes last week and it currently empowers heavy attacks on live.

Maybe like 3 patches ago or so.

I just went on my magdk. It still gives 50 percent damage increase to heavy attacks...

Well dam I stand corrected on that. I guess they revert that back. That's good news. I'm checking my dk now as well

phoenixkungfu

Wow that great 50% increase on heavy attack. Nice that fantastic. I'm happy to see that on a dk... I'm so glad they revert the change on this...nice.

relentless_turnip

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 40 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Smh once again they nerf armaments. It no longer gives a heavy attack bonus. I dont agree with this because it nerf build diversity.

What are you on about? it isn't in the newest patch notes and if you log in the game you'll see it still has 40% increase to heavy attack on molten arnaments... it is on my back bar at the moment

phoenixkungfu

relentless_turnip wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 40 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Smh once again they nerf armaments. It no longer gives a heavy attack bonus. I dont agree with this because it nerf build diversity.

What are you on about? it isn't in the newest patch notes and if you log in the game you'll see it still has 40% increase to heavy attack on molten arnaments... it is on my back bar at the moment

Yeah, I miss the change back. I'm going to dk some this peak my interest.

MellowMagic

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 40 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Smh once again they nerf armaments. It no longer gives a heavy attack bonus. I dont agree with this because it nerf build diversity.

What are you on about? it isn't in the newest patch notes and if you log in the game you'll see it still has 40% increase to heavy attack on molten arnaments... it is on my back bar at the moment

Yeah, I miss the change back. I'm going to some this peak my interest.

I was curious to see how good or bad that set up I listed earlier would be. Sunderflame + sergeant mail + mephala.

Here is the result on a 6m dummy. Its around 55k on a trial dummy but i was too lazy to do a full parse.





Edit: Trial Parse




I did record the 6m parse if youre interested in what the rotation looked like.

phoenixkungfu

S

MellowMagic wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

MellowMagic wrote: »

You can run sunderflame on a stamdk maybe pair it with sergeants mail and mephala and use molten armaments for that 40 percent boost. Could be fun if you really love heavy attacks, but you're not going to be doing competitive dps.

Smh once again they nerf armaments. It no longer gives a heavy attack bonus. I dont agree with this because it nerf build diversity.

What are you on about? it isn't in the newest patch notes and if you log in the game you'll see it still has 40% increase to heavy attack on molten arnaments... it is on my back bar at the moment

Yeah, I miss the change back. I'm going to some this peak my interest.

I was curious to see how good or bad that set up I listed earlier would be. Sunderflame + sergeant mail + mephala.

Here is the result on a 6m dummy. Its around 55k on a trial dummy but i was too lazy to do a full parse.





Edit: Trial Parse




I did record the 6m parse if youre interested in what the rotation looked like.

Nice

Shantu

I too wish there was more diversity in regard to the options for heavy attack builds. I run a Sorc, 2 Templars, 2 NB's, a DK, and a Warden. I have all set up with meta gear and have invested countless hours perfecting rotations on target dummies. But you know which build I enjoy playing the most? It's a non-meta version of a HA MagSorc pet build. I really enjoy the play style. Skills executed are based more on conditional context than a matter of fast twitch rotation. At least to me, it just feels like a more relaxed and fun way to play. Though you can't match damage from a build with meta gear and a good rotation, with the right setup that boosts HA's, you can do decent damage (I've done 45k on a 6 mil). It would be nice to see more gear and skill sets that proc HA's to allow for a little more diversity and give these builds a bit more damage punch.

llBlack_Heartll

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Wow that great 50% increase on heavy attack. Nice that fantastic. I'm happy to see that on a dk... I'm so glad they revert the change on this...nice.

It’s was nerfed from each tick of a heavy attack (lightning staffs) to just the final hit.

phoenixkungfu

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Wow that great 50% increase on heavy attack. Nice that fantastic. I'm happy to see that on a dk... I'm so glad they revert the change on this...nice.

It’s was nerfed from each tick of a heavy attack (lightning staffs) to just the final hit.

I played Dk and it had some juice but let's be honest the nerf made build diversity of dk go from magic base dot playstyle to another burst meta. Aka major stam buff. This is a direct violation of the build diversity constitution under the be competitive act. revert the nerfs to damage done with a heavy attack, give dk build diversity. LET FREEDOM RING

relentless_turnip

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Wow that great 50% increase on heavy attack. Nice that fantastic. I'm happy to see that on a dk... I'm so glad they revert the change on this...nice.

It’s was nerfed from each tick of a heavy attack (lightning staffs) to just the final hit.

I played Dk and it had some juice but let's be honest the nerf made build diversity of dk go from magic base dot playstyle to another burst meta. Aka major stam buff. This is a direct violation of the build diversity constitution under the be competitive act. revert the nerfs to damage done with a heavy attack, give dk build diversity. LET FREEDOM RING

I'm pretty certain you create these posts from a mental institution... I'm surprised you internet privileges haven't been revoked by the orderly

Xvorg

Skorya procs on lit and healing channels

I effectively used a HA DK build with knight slayer, torugs, skoria and oblivion dmg glyphs before the nerf to oblivion dmg and before the nerf to shock reach. Contrary to what some people could say, it was fun to play it, at least in light armor (high risk and high reward).

Currently it is not even possible to try that. There's no wings, no healing ward, no ranged stun...

phoenixkungfu

Xvorg wrote: »

Skorya procs on lit and healing channels

I effectively used a HA DK build with knight slayer, torugs, skoria and oblivion dmg glyphs before the nerf to oblivion dmg and before the nerf to shock reach. Contrary to what some people could say, it was fun to play it, at least in light armor (high risk and high reward).

Currently it is not even possible to try that. There's no wings, no healing ward, no ranged stun...

Sorry to hear that..I think it would be a cool change if they changed lightning DESTRUCTION reach to set off balance. That would probably make your build work again. Idk just brain storming