Solo only battlegrounds! Day of Glory! Ty Zenimax team for doing first step in this direction!

JusticeSouldier

Battlegrounds

You can now only queue as a solo player into Battlegrounds.
Reset the Battleground matchmaking ratings for all players.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

This is a big change to Battlegrounds matchmaking which we are executing partially in response to player feedback and partially as an experiment. We recognize the change will prevent players from being able to reliably team up with friends in Battlegrounds, but it should also improve both the speed of matchmaking and the competitiveness of PvP matches. As part of the change, we are resetting the matchmaking rating (MMR) of all players, so going forward, the system more properly evaluates individuals based on their performance in the solo queue. We’ll be closely monitoring both player feedback and the impact of these changes on the system.

We were waiting 3 years for this!
@ZOS_GinaBruno Love everyone who is responsible for this desision! Big big big thanks!

Add later please also separate queue for premade groups.
These are 2 different combat styles. First step done and it's extremly nice news.
it would also be a thing we all waited for to progress at 4-players teams vs competitive opponents.

Olupajmibanan

Group queue can't be implemented because solo players are restricted (even if they weren't they would not log for this) from this and thus 3 premade could not log at all. That leaves you with pairs and full 4-premades. You think that it is fair that two pairs go against full 4 premade?

Proposed solution to this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509038/a-solution-to-bg-problem-perhaps#latest

JusticeSouldier

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Group queue can't be implemented because solo players are restricted (even if they weren't they would not log for this) from this and thus 3 premade could not log at all. That leaves you with pairs and full 4-premades. You think that it is fair that two pairs go against full 4 premade?

Proposed solution to this here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509038/a-solution-to-bg-problem-perhaps#latest

It's not solution.
I dont want to fight vs duo choosing queue as solo.
Duo vs 4 mans is choice. Same as trio. Also solo players, when premade queue will be added i guess should have an option to join premade queue to fill duo or trio groups.
Will they do that, not matter!
Own choice matter!

Any freaking duo in solo queue!

JusticeSouldier

https://youtu.be/QhSROXv6k9U

mikeb16_ESO77

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Battlegrounds

You can now only queue as a solo player into Battlegrounds.
Reset the Battleground matchmaking ratings for all players.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

This is a big change to Battlegrounds matchmaking which we are executing partially in response to player feedback and partially as an experiment. We recognize the change will prevent players from being able to reliably team up with friends in Battlegrounds, but it should also improve both the speed of matchmaking and the competitiveness of PvP matches. As part of the change, we are resetting the matchmaking rating (MMR) of all players, so going forward, the system more properly evaluates individuals based on their performance in the solo queue. We’ll be closely monitoring both player feedback and the impact of these changes on the system.

We were waiting 3 years for this!
@ZOS_GinaBruno Love everyone who is responsible for this desision! Big big big thanks!

Add later please also separate queue for premade groups.
These are 2 different combat styles. First step done and it's extremly nice news.
it would also be a thing we all waited for to progress at 4-players teams vs competitive opponents.

If we would have had a much larger pool of BG players it would be optimal to have seperate queues for solos, duos and full premades but we dont. With this change you lose alot of players and you will have alot fewer to compete against so a larger skill gap between players in the same BG and will thus fail in creating what you are after, a fair and competative match.

As I wrote in another thread, A singel que thats sorts solos and duos in one match and trios + 1 solo with premades is a compromise, since we are to few, that levels the playing field without losing further players.

And as a side note a 3 team match will never be truly competative, this is why you never see it in sports. It can be really fun though.

JusticeSouldier

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Battlegrounds

You can now only queue as a solo player into Battlegrounds.
Reset the Battleground matchmaking ratings for all players.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

This is a big change to Battlegrounds matchmaking which we are executing partially in response to player feedback and partially as an experiment. We recognize the change will prevent players from being able to reliably team up with friends in Battlegrounds, but it should also improve both the speed of matchmaking and the competitiveness of PvP matches. As part of the change, we are resetting the matchmaking rating (MMR) of all players, so going forward, the system more properly evaluates individuals based on their performance in the solo queue. We’ll be closely monitoring both player feedback and the impact of these changes on the system.

We were waiting 3 years for this!
@ZOS_GinaBruno Love everyone who is responsible for this desision! Big big big thanks!

Add later please also separate queue for premade groups.
These are 2 different combat styles. First step done and it's extremly nice news.
it would also be a thing we all waited for to progress at 4-players teams vs competitive opponents.

If we would have had a much larger pool of BG players it would be optimal to have seperate queues for solos, duos and full premades but we dont. With this change you lose alot of players and you will have alot fewer to compete against so a larger skill gap between players in the same BG and will thus fail in creating what you are after, a fair and competative match.

As I wrote in another thread, A singel que thats sorts solos and duos in one match and trios + 1 solo with premades is a compromise, since we are to few, that levels the playing field without losing further players.

And as a side note a 3 team match will never be truly competative, this is why you never see it in sports. It can be really fun though.

As they wrote, it's somehow experiment.
Imho, I'm 100% sure players base will now rize like a mushrums after rain.
Because envinronment will now be competitive.

Premade players base will grow when they will add premade queue.
Step by step.

I'm excited!

jecks33

this is a great change, i can finally go back to bgs

mikeb16_ESO77

jecks33 wrote: »

this is a great change, i can finally go back to bgs

Its never a good change if you exculde a large portion of a an already small playerbase. A change is needed but this is not it. Besides how do you justify the inability to play with a friend in an mmo?

"Welcome to our mmo, enjoy fast paced pvp combat in our battlegrounds only you cant play with friends."

Mariusghost84

This is absolutely amazing and i cant wait for this to go live! Today is a great day

TheFM

Im all for seperate queues, but what is with this all or nothing approach withzos? Same principle with the campaigns, why not one locked and one unlocked for both cp and no cp, why must it be forced for one party always?

JusticeSouldier

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

this is a great change, i can finally go back to bgs

Its never a good change if you exculde a large portion of a an already small playerbase. A change is needed but this is not it. Besides how do you justify the inability to play with a friend in an mmo?

"Welcome to our mmo, enjoy fast paced pvp combat in our battlegrounds only you cant play with friends."

Anyone excluded here. just finally we have competitive playground.
With a space for future improvements.
Tell u dude, when it will come into live, battlegrounds will be 5-10x times more populated

Qbiken

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

this is a great change, i can finally go back to bgs

Its never a good change if you exculde a large portion of a an already small playerbase. A change is needed but this is not it. Besides how do you justify the inability to play with a friend in an mmo?

"Welcome to our mmo, enjoy fast paced pvp combat in our battlegrounds only you cant play with friends."

Anyone excluded here. just finally we have competitive playground.
With a space for future improvements.
Tell u dude, when it will come into live, battlegrounds will be 5-10x times more populated

In what way are BG´s more competitive with this change? They aren´t even competitive to begin with since we don´t have a propper ranking system. With everyone being on solo que you´re basically relying on RNG hoping to get good teammates, and that´s not really competitve if you ask me....

iCaliban

This entire post reeks of low mmr players who get smashed in bgs and blame it on premades.

Right now, during primetime NA a 4 man group waits over 40 minutes for a BG at high mmr. No one is that much of a masochist. There are legitimately no regular premade groups anymore. This is a "fix" for a problem that does not exist

mav1234

This is one of the worst changes I've seen to a system in an MMO. Two queues would make sense... a single queue is going to drive a lot of more casual duos out of the game.

ChunkyCat

As usual, and with good business sense, ZoS is catering the the casual player.

And how many of those were completely driven away during BGs heyday of premades?

Probably a lot more than will leave for not being able to duo with their favorite butt buddy.

JusticeSouldier

Qbiken wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

this is a great change, i can finally go back to bgs

Its never a good change if you exculde a large portion of a an already small playerbase. A change is needed but this is not it. Besides how do you justify the inability to play with a friend in an mmo?

"Welcome to our mmo, enjoy fast paced pvp combat in our battlegrounds only you cant play with friends."

Anyone excluded here. just finally we have competitive playground.
With a space for future improvements.
Tell u dude, when it will come into live, battlegrounds will be 5-10x times more populated

In what way are BG´s more competitive with this change? They aren´t even competitive to begin with since we don´t have a propper ranking system. With everyone being on solo que you´re basically relying on RNG hoping to get good teammates, and that´s not really competitve if you ask me....

In an extremly stright.
Everyone in all 3 teams is random, so anyone can't predict if u will have healer in your group or not same as another 2 teams.
And no voice coordination possible, which is i guess 50% empower to the group.
MMR now will matter much more than before.
Also, no more 40 minuts of waiting... All fine.

Premade queue should be also, and i'm sure they will add it later.
But as a first step - removing premade vs random queue is damn good and fair change.

JusticeSouldier

iCaliban wrote: »

This entire post reeks of low mmr players who get smashed in bgs and blame it on premades.

Right now, during primetime NA a 4 man group waits over 40 minutes for a BG at high mmr. No one is that much of a masochist. There are legitimately no regular premade groups anymore. This is a "fix" for a problem that does not exist

Your logic has an issue.
System puts premades vs randoms, who's mmr is higher than mmr of players inside premade.
So it's a problem of mostly high mmr players to fight vs premades as randoms.
No?;)

JusticeSouldier

mav1234 wrote: »

This is one of the worst changes I've seen to a system in an MMO. Two queues would make sense... a single queue is going to drive a lot of more casual duos out of the game.

first step.second one will be 2nd queue.

mav1234

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

This is one of the worst changes I've seen to a system in an MMO. Two queues would make sense... a single queue is going to drive a lot of more casual duos out of the game.

first step.second one will be 2nd queue.

Where's the timeline for when I can group with my friends again? Why test them separately? When and where did ZOS say that this was a first step with the second being group queuing?

What we have is a note that this is experimental and will be monitored. An experiment is something that, if it works in whatever desired way ZOS wants, could be permanent. Something that is temporary, on the other hand, is typically not meant to be permanent. The choice of language here was intentional. Gina is not dumb - they are considering this as a permanent solution and they want to gather data on it.

An example of language intended to suggest this was temporary, and that a second queue may be incoming (but without a guarantee) would be:
"We are making this temporary change to evaluate how many players would use a solo queue as we examine implementing separate solo and group queues. We are aware that this prohibits friends from playing together during this trial period, but we feel this data is valuable as we look to expand existing options for Battleground PvP. This temporary data gathering period is expected to run through this DLC cycle but will change for the release of the Chapter in Q2." This tells those of us impacted negatively exactly what the plan is, why they are doing it, how long it will last, etc. That is completely absent, because this could be a permanent change with no additional group queue options.

JusticeSouldier

mav1234 wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

This is one of the worst changes I've seen to a system in an MMO. Two queues would make sense... a single queue is going to drive a lot of more casual duos out of the game.

first step.second one will be 2nd queue.

Where's the timeline for when I can group with my friends again? Why test them separately? When and where did ZOS say that this was a first step with the second being group queuing?

What we have is a note that this is experimental and will be monitored. An experiment is something that, if it works in whatever desired way ZOS wants, could be permanent. Something that is temporary, on the other hand, is typically not meant to be permanent. The choice of language here was intentional. Gina is not dumb - they are considering this as a permanent solution and they want to gather data on it.

An example of language intended to suggest this was temporary, and that a second queue may be incoming (but without a guarantee) would be:
"We are making this temporary change to evaluate how many players would use a solo queue as we examine implementing separate solo and group queues. We are aware that this prohibits friends from playing together during this trial period, but we feel this data is valuable as we look to expand existing options for Battleground PvP. This temporary data gathering period is expected to run through this DLC cycle but will change for the release of the Chapter in Q2." This tells those of us impacted negatively exactly what the plan is, why they are doing it, how long it will last, etc. That is completely absent, because this could be a permanent change with no additional group queue options.

Dude, i'm glad such people like u will be restricted to stomp randoms in bgs now as a grouped ones.
If u don't care about competitiveness because u "want to play with friends", I don't care about your wishes, which as usual in bgs = exploiting of hole in this system, which allows to queue premades vs randoms without any choice.

And, I don't care about timeline, because Age of premade vs randoms prolongs about 3 years already.
Enouch.

mav1234

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Dude, i'm glad such people like u will be restricted to stomp randoms in bgs now as a grouped ones.
If u don't care about competitiveness because u "want to play with friends", I don't care about your wishes, which as usual in bgs = exploiting of hole in this system, which allows to queue premades vs randoms without any choice.

And, I don't care about timeline, because Age of premade vs randoms prolongs about 3 years already.
Enouch.

hate to break it to you but if me or my buddy stomped you it is because you are bad. My friends have no monster sets and as of sunday just passed CP160. Lol. I've not played pvp all 2019 and none of us are doing anything close to optimal anything. None of us care about stomping randoms in a BG, and believe me, none of them are capable of it right now. Perhaps some day when they learn the game... ofc, with this change going live, they'll likely quit. They have almost nothing invested in the game, unlike me, who loves it.

I care about competitiveness. That is why I do not support a single queue as a sole solution. To me, a bunch of randoms in a BG isn't competitive. Hell, the top "competitive" BG players on streams ignore objectives and just deathmatch. That also matches my experience in many bgs when I am solo. Not to mention the general imbalance of classes and builds (e.g. super tanky healers). I'd rather have a competitive ranked queue for actual competition with some restrictions, that's ACTUALLY competition.

iCaliban

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

This entire post reeks of low mmr players who get smashed in bgs and blame it on premades.

Right now, during primetime NA a 4 man group waits over 40 minutes for a BG at high mmr. No one is that much of a masochist. There are legitimately no regular premade groups anymore. This is a "fix" for a problem that does not exist

Your logic has an issue.
System puts premades vs randoms, who's mmr is higher than mmr of players inside premade.
So it's a problem of mostly high mmr players to fight vs premades as randoms.
No?;)

And I have no problem fighting premades. Its mostly low mmr players who dont know the difference who complain about premades. And I guess mursie the bot

mursie

iCaliban wrote: »

This entire post reeks of low mmr players who get smashed in bgs and blame it on premades.

Right now, during primetime NA a 4 man group waits over 40 minutes for a BG at high mmr. No one is that much of a masochist. There are legitimately no regular premade groups anymore. This is a "fix" for a problem that does not exist

interesting - if there are no premades then solo que isn't an issue, since everyone is solo queing already as premades don't exist. per your logic of course.

mav1234

iCaliban wrote: »

And I have no problem fighting premades. Its mostly low mmr players who dont know the difference who complain about premades. And I guess mursie the bot

to be fair, Mursie is just one of many streamers cheering this change. most also say there should be a group queue (including Mursie). but Alcast, Fengrush, Inklings have all cheered the change. I think that while premades may or may not be as big a problem as sometimes stated (I don't have the experience), having the queue as it is, and having a separate solo-only queue, would make everyone happier IMO. let people queue up for a random if they don't care if they play premades, duos, etc... if they only want that solo-only experience, let them queue up for solo-only.

mursie wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

This entire post reeks of low mmr players who get smashed in bgs and blame it on premades.

Right now, during primetime NA a 4 man group waits over 40 minutes for a BG at high mmr. No one is that much of a masochist. There are legitimately no regular premade groups anymore. This is a "fix" for a problem that does not exist

interesting - if there are no premades then solo que isn't an issue, since everyone is solo queing already as premades don't exist. per your logic of course.

big thing is I think that most people saying "premades don't exist" aren't counting duos in that. there are definitely a lot of duos out, at many mmrs, with highly variable levels of skill (such as my friends without monster helms that started 2 weeks ago XD)

iCaliban

mursie wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

This entire post reeks of low mmr players who get smashed in bgs and blame it on premades.

Right now, during primetime NA a 4 man group waits over 40 minutes for a BG at high mmr. No one is that much of a masochist. There are legitimately no regular premade groups anymore. This is a "fix" for a problem that does not exist

interesting - if there are no premades then solo que isn't an issue, since everyone is solo queing already as premades don't exist. per your logic of course.

I run organised 4v4v4s every weekend in guild. I dont give a damn about bg queues. I just want to be able to set up games in guild.

Ive been beating the drum for a lobby system for over a year

kaithuzar

ChunkyCat wrote: »

As usual, and with good business sense, ZoS is catering the the casual player.

And how many of those were completely driven away during BGs heyday of premades?

Probably a lot more than will leave for not being able to duo with their favorite butt buddy.

I question the “good business sense” part of the argument, because if they did “competitive play correctly”, they open up the opportunity to dip into other marks such as FPS players, Moba players, & potentially e-sports league, but from what we’ve seen there is no appetite for investment in these markets weather due to a lack of coding skills or whatever.

mursie

iCaliban wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

This entire post reeks of low mmr players who get smashed in bgs and blame it on premades.

Right now, during primetime NA a 4 man group waits over 40 minutes for a BG at high mmr. No one is that much of a masochist. There are legitimately no regular premade groups anymore. This is a "fix" for a problem that does not exist

interesting - if there are no premades then solo que isn't an issue, since everyone is solo queing already as premades don't exist. per your logic of course.

I run organised 4v4v4s every weekend in guild. I dont give a damn about bg queues. I just want to be able to set up games in guild.

Ive been beating the drum for a lobby system for over a year

sounds good - i have no issue with that. i wish you the best of luck in this endeavor and do champion it. as someone who recently broadcasted a four hour 6v6 tournament with 10 organized teams... i understand and enjoy organized group pvp.

getting your request would be great. pvp needs to flourish and having solo players be able to que confidently into fair and balanced solo que matches will help growth the pvp player base.

but - a group v group system is also needed. it is the highest level of pvp. where metas are actually formed.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

With an Official Thread being posted on this subject, we're going to go ahead and close this thread down. Feel free to move this discussion over to this official thread to post your feedback so it can all be found in one place for easier tracking. While posting on the new thread be sure to keep the Forum Rules in mind to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding!