A solution to BG problem, perhaps

Olupajmibanan

Why not making the queue solo/duo. Being able to queue with 1 friend does not cause any significant balance distortions - finder alone can be restricted to create this type of matches: 2+2/1+1+1+1 and allow only 1 pair at a time on each team. Not even saying that MMR altering coeficient for being grouped still exists.

It's not a true solution and there definitely needs to be solo/duo queue and group queue as well, but if it's technicaly impossible to do that atm (I guess this is the reason for such stupid decision) this should be a rational compromise to achieve the goal but still not pi**ing off half of the BG population.

Olupajmibanan

Not even saying that the most popular PvP game (based on number of streams) of last 10 years is a game of 5v5 and has two queues - Solo/Duo and Group (they call it flex). That being said, if the most popular and actually the most competitive game atm with the most tournaments allows pairs to be matched against solos, it is not a big deal at all.

Thannazzar

Would happily endorse a queue solo or queue grouped (2-4 players) but solo should be solo.

Olupajmibanan

Thannazzar wrote: »

Would happily endorse a queue solo or queue grouped (2-4 players) but solo should be solo.

By your logic we should have three separate queues: solos only, duos only, full premades only. And group queue only you ask for is impossible in group of 3 because solo players would be restricted from this queue. You see? It's not even half as simple as that. That's why we should find compromises, ideal status is unachievable.

Qbiken

Thannazzar wrote: »

Would happily endorse a queue solo or queue grouped (2-4 players) but solo should be solo.

A duo is not a premade in my book. Half of your team is still not under "your control". In my opinion a premade is at least 3 players queuing together.

I definitely think ZOS should reconsider letting players queue as a duo next patch.

Olupajmibanan

The biggest problem is that even split queue can't be implemented. When you have solo-only queue and than 2-4 queue a number of problems would occur. Solo players are restricted from group queue, thus group of 3 would never have the last one to fill the team restricting these groups entirely. Even if solo players weren't restricted, there will be very small few of them who would log in group queue instead of solo queue creating extremely long queue times for groups of 3. You will be left with pairs and full 4-premades. I do think that this the exactly same situation like with solo players, it is not fair that two pairs go against full 4-premade. Solution is two queues: solo/duo queue and full-4 premade queue. The full 4-premade could be very interesting and extremely competitive showing some true potential of objective based PvP while leaving solo/duo for casual PvPing not restricting you to play with a friend/partner.

JusticeSouldier

Qbiken wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

Would happily endorse a queue solo or queue grouped (2-4 players) but solo should be solo.

A duo is not a premade in my book. Half of your team is still not under "your control". In my opinion a premade is at least 3 players queuing together.

I definitely think ZOS should reconsider letting players queue as a duo next patch.

it's your subjective opinion.
But in reality 2 experienced players who coordinate their actions, ruin competition in such type of combat.
Duo is premade same as trio or 4mans.
and, 2 duo fill the full team.

TO fill up group with trio or duo solo players also should have opportunity to join premade queue.
With own choice!

Olupajmibanan

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

Would happily endorse a queue solo or queue grouped (2-4 players) but solo should be solo.

A duo is not a premade in my book. Half of your team is still not under "your control". In my opinion a premade is at least 3 players queuing together.

I definitely think ZOS should reconsider letting players queue as a duo next patch.

it's your subjective opinion.
But in reality 2 experienced players who coordinate their actions, ruin competition in such type of combat.
Duo is premade same as trio or 4mans.
and, 2 duo fill the full team.

TO fill up group with trio or duo solo players also should have opportunity to join premade queue.
With own choice!

And where do you find the fourth to fill up the team when 3-premade queues up, in order to BG to start up? Solo players would be in their solo queue anyways.

Also my proposal was to restrict two pairs being on the same team.

JusticeSouldier

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

thus group of 3 would never have the last one to fill the team restricting these groups entirely

it doesnt matter. its not hard for 3 players to fing 4th. or to figth 3v4. not a giant gap.
Also i know many players who will join premade queue as solo players.
Like for challenge. I will join also sometimes. So please, stop writing trash.
It's not solution.
U completly ignored how boring and huge was problem of this trash in battlegroiunds during 3 years.
Any freaking duo in solo queue.

mikeb16_ESO77

I agree premades can be a problem but id rather get stomped every other match then not being able to play with my wife and I think alot of BG players feels the same wether its with a partner, friend or guildmate. There have been a large amout of clever suggestions on how to solve the matching problem. For example with the following matching.

1. Solos and duos
2. Trios+1 solo and full premade

Edit this is a single que

As a solo player meeting duos is fine and playing solo with a trio you just need to adapt to them. A good trio will stomp an average full premades so adjust MMR accordingly. Sure trio and full premade matching will take longer but you dont screw over people who want to play with someone.

Whilst the current solution will be easier to balance you will most likely lose even more of the already scarce BG population. And a laggy cyrodiil is no substitute for BGs.

Olupajmibanan

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

thus group of 3 would never have the last one to fill the team restricting these groups entirely

it dopesnt matter. its not hard for 3 players to fing 4th.
Also i know many players who will jopin premade queue as solo players.
Like for challenge. So please, stop writing trash.
It's not solution.
U completly ignored how boring and huge was problem of this trash in battlegroiunds during 3 years.
Any freaking duo in solo queue.

As I have told you in another thread. With this attitude, nobody is going to take you seriously. We expect rational proposals and counterarguments, not some whining-crying kid comments, so please refrain from using these.

Olupajmibanan

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

I agree premades can be a problem but id rather get stomped every other match then not being able to play with my wife and I think alot of BG players feels the same wether its with a partner, friend or guildmate. There have been a large amout of clever suggestions on how to solve the matching problem. For example with the following matching.

1. Solos and duos
2. Trios+1 solo and full premades.

As a solo player meeting duos is fine and playing solo with a trio you just need to adapt to them. A good trio will stomp an average full premades so adjust MMR accordingly. Sure trio and full premade que will take longer but you dont screw over people who want to play with someone.

Whilst the current solution will be easier to balance you will most likely lose even more of the already scarce BG population. And a laggy cyrodiil is no substitute for BGs.

This. And to prevent balance issues, restrict two pairs on the same team.

And putting pairs against full 4-premade is actually a balance problem. Even two competent pairs will have extremely hard times against full 4-premade which is completely unfair.

JusticeSouldier

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

thus group of 3 would never have the last one to fill the team restricting these groups entirely

it dopesnt matter. its not hard for 3 players to fing 4th.
Also i know many players who will jopin premade queue as solo players.
Like for challenge. So please, stop writing trash.
It's not solution.
U completly ignored how boring and huge was problem of this trash in battlegroiunds during 3 years.
Any freaking duo in solo queue.

As I have told you in another thread. With this attitude, nobody is going to take you seriously. We expect rational proposals and counterarguments, not some whining-crying kid comments, so please refrain from using these.

Any freaking duo premade groups in solo queue! It ruins competition! Your "solution" is not solution!

Olupajmibanan

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

thus group of 3 would never have the last one to fill the team restricting these groups entirely

it dopesnt matter. its not hard for 3 players to fing 4th.
Also i know many players who will jopin premade queue as solo players.
Like for challenge. So please, stop writing trash.
It's not solution.
U completly ignored how boring and huge was problem of this trash in battlegroiunds during 3 years.
Any freaking duo in solo queue.

As I have told you in another thread. With this attitude, nobody is going to take you seriously. We expect rational proposals and counterarguments, not some whining-crying kid comments, so please refrain from using these.

Any freaking duo premade groups in solo queue! It ruins competition! Your "solution" is not solution!

You have been warned.

This is not a problem of competition, it would have no effect on this. The most popular PvP-only game of last 10 years having a ranked solo/duo queue with no option as solo-only surely thought about balance.

Or do you really think they design their game like this "*** balance, let these extremely super overpowered pairs stomp those innocent cute solo players"? That's what you are implying.

Qbiken

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

Would happily endorse a queue solo or queue grouped (2-4 players) but solo should be solo.

A duo is not a premade in my book. Half of your team is still not under "your control". In my opinion a premade is at least 3 players queuing together.

I definitely think ZOS should reconsider letting players queue as a duo next patch.

it's your subjective opinion.
But in reality 2 experienced players who coordinate their actions, ruin competition in such type of combat.
Duo is premade same as trio or 4mans.
and, 2 duo fill the full team.

TO fill up group with trio or duo solo players also should have opportunity to join premade queue.
With own choice!

I know you play on PC/EU and I must say that I´m a bit surprised seeing someone from there complaining about premades vs non-premades. A few things I´ve noticed regarding PC/EU:

* The amount of actuall full 4 man premades are easily counted on one hand, and those groups all belong in the high MMR ranks which means that they´ll never face random "pugs" and are more than likely to face other premades.

* When it comes to 3-man premades, those are a bit more common, but again, those 3-man groups will show up more in the higher MMR ranks and be paired up against similar groups. Again, I can almost list all the groups/players that plays either 4 man or 3 man because they´re so few of them.

* The "premade vs non-premade" is an issue for the higher MMR ranks mostly, since they rarely exists in the low mmr bracket.

Duo is premade same as trio or 4mans.

When it comes to the impact the different groups have in a BG that´s not true at all. While a coordinated duo can have a big impact, a coordinated 3- or 4 man has a significantly bigger impact than a duo. The difference is night and day. A good coordinated duo can still lose the game if the rest of their team fails the objective.

Zulera301

y'all've had your fun wrecking everyone else's Ish in BGs for years now. The remaining 90% of us scrubs that queue solo are going to have a much better time doing so though.

Olupajmibanan

Qbiken wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

Would happily endorse a queue solo or queue grouped (2-4 players) but solo should be solo.

A duo is not a premade in my book. Half of your team is still not under "your control". In my opinion a premade is at least 3 players queuing together.

I definitely think ZOS should reconsider letting players queue as a duo next patch.

it's your subjective opinion.
But in reality 2 experienced players who coordinate their actions, ruin competition in such type of combat.
Duo is premade same as trio or 4mans.
and, 2 duo fill the full team.

TO fill up group with trio or duo solo players also should have opportunity to join premade queue.
With own choice!

A good coordinated duo can still lose the game if the rest of their team fails the objective.

To add, even cooridnated duo will get stomped by 4 competent solos. I know this from experience from other PvP-only games, when MMR altering coeficient for being grouped takes place the pair usualy has a very hard time because the solo players against are on higher MMR bracket with more experience. And individual experience has much higher weight than the advantage of being grouped with a friend/partner.

mikeb16_ESO77

Zulera301 wrote: »

y'all've had your fun wrecking everyone else's Ish in BGs for years now. The remaining 90% of us scrubs that queue solo are going to have a much better time doing so though.

Its not just full premades who are against this any one who primarily plays with another person is. And you would probably be surprised how many duos that play BGs most not super coordinated. Im sure Its more than 10% of the players.

Its not fun meeting a full premades but this is worse.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

With an Official Thread being posted on this subject, we're going to go ahead and close this thread down. Feel free to move this discussion over to this official thread to post your feedback so it can all be found in one place for easier tracking. While posting on the new thread be sure to keep the Forum Rules in mind to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding!