Premades are OVER!! (At least, for now)

JWillCHS

wheem_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

No your just glad you can go in and 1vX easier against unorganized players now.
It's all about potato farming.

Barring cases of really extreme unbalance/brokenness, 1vX is only possible when the X are bad players who are heavily outclassed by the 1. So it was always possible at low MMR, since you'd sometimes get games full of people that aren't wearing Impen gear, don't heal themselves, etc...but it's just not a thing at high MMR. While having high MMR doesn't necessarily mean that one is a top notch player, it generally does indicate that they're "good enough" to not get 1vX'd.

Except you don't have to be good to be placed in high MMR, just play a lot.
And I seriously doubt it was the high MMR good players that complained about organized group play.

As I said, having high MMR doesn't mean that a player is the best of the best, but it does usually indicate that they're good/experienced enough to not get 1vX'd. Given map size, player ability levels, etc...1vX'ing simply isn't a thing in high MMR BGs. At least not on PC-NA, and I seriously doubt it's much different on any other platform or server.

Secondly, there are certainly high MMR players that complained about premades. Some even complained about organized games with 3x premades often being obscenely boring. Because while those games could be fun sometimes, it often devolved into a game of ring around the roses, with occasional fights that would last for a few seconds as 2 teams ult dumped the 1 that got itself in a bad position.

With a bit of re-balancing and being cut down to only 2 teams, I think premade-only games could end up being really fun. In the current state of the game, though, it's rather bleh. Still better than having 1 premade team vs 2 not-full teams of random players, though.

So I am one of the players who was interested in seeing this experiment similar to how we were able to try CP Battlegrounds.

While I REALLY like how unpredictable and dynamic the fights are; the skill level just tanked. And considering how useless the MMR system is in ESO, will players ever see that high skill level of play in Battlegrounds again?

Last night in a Crazy King match I was on that map with the spinning blades in the center. I hit the button on the second level, and a significant amount of players died below. This isn't a new trick but perhaps we have more new players joining in.

We really need to see if the MMR system puts decent and skill players together near the end of this patch cycle more frequently. Even before the change solo players were becoming more wise to group play regardless of the group composition.

I know everyone thinks 1vX is cool. You have the YouTube build videos and carefully chosen clips that make everyone look like an expert. Battlegrounds don't offer that situation too often until now. If you at least played against a skilled premade in the past, won with a group of randoms people, and had more kills than deaths; your skill level will definitely shine more often than not this patch cycle(even when you lose).

I'm still missing a level of skill that some more experience players have in regards to decision making. That's something I've been working on. But man, I've had multiple 1v2 and 1v3 encounters where the pressure I was applying just overwhelmed my opponents.

I predominantly solo queued prior to the change. Occassionally I have been placed in matches today where I've found reliable teammates, but players so far have been less reliable. Less reliable at group/overlapping heals(often times none at all), supporting pressure, finishing kills(unless they're a magsorc lol), etc.

Besides the playing-with-friends argument, the solo community in BGs before are more knowledgeable and skilled than today's batch of players. But that can all change over time.

I only started PvPing because of Battlegrounds when Morrowind released. I think it's a great place to learn mechanics.

Good players are even better players this patch. And people are still being successful at playing tanks, and healers. However your chances of having a high skill match are less likely. But I am not trying to minimize anyone's efforts in BGs because I know people are still trying hard regardless of their skill level.

Sophieous

You've turned bgs into an rng fest. Every team gets 1-2 good players and the team with the less worse players wins.

The competent players try to win by whoever kills the most newbies. Not by outplaying equally good players. This is not what bgs were like. You've completely ruined the point of them. And you've lowered the standard to the ground.

If you only cater for that kind of a player base that's fine. But there are other people who want the old bgs back.

So either revert ur failed experiment, or make one solo and one group queue or at least duo queue so people can play how they want.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

wheem_ESO

JWillCHS wrote: »

While I REALLY like how unpredictable and dynamic the fights are; the skill level just tanked. And considering how useless the MMR system is in ESO, will players ever see that high skill level of play in Battlegrounds again?

Sophieous wrote: »

You've turned bgs into an rng fest. Every team gets 1-2 good players and the team with the less worse players wins.

The competent players try to win by whoever kills the most newbies. Not by outplaying equally good players. This is not what bgs were like. You've completely ruined the point of them. And you've lowered the standard to the ground.

If you only cater for that kind of a player base that's fine. But there are other people who want the old bgs back.

So either revert ur failed experiment, or make one solo and one group queue or at least duo queue so people can play how they want.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

What's driving both of your experiences is the MMR reset, not the exclusion of group queues. The sorts of games that you're experiencing now were always possible, though usually only after a very long wait in the queue, or when playing a new'ish character. If you've ever seen some of those screenshots of people getting 40+ killing blows with 0 deaths, that's how they did it - wrecking people that they outclassed in a low MMR game.

No one really knows how long it'll take for the MMR to even out to something resembling what it was before, but for now it's oftentimes a big dice roll. Sometimes you'll end up in games with mostly decent-or-better players, and sometimes it's just....yea, wow.

Sophieous

wheem_ESO wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

While I REALLY like how unpredictable and dynamic the fights are; the skill level just tanked. And considering how useless the MMR system is in ESO, will players ever see that high skill level of play in Battlegrounds again?

Sophieous wrote: »

You've turned bgs into an rng fest. Every team gets 1-2 good players and the team with the less worse players wins.

The competent players try to win by whoever kills the most newbies. Not by outplaying equally good players. This is not what bgs were like. You've completely ruined the point of them. And you've lowered the standard to the ground.

If you only cater for that kind of a player base that's fine. But there are other people who want the old bgs back.

So either revert ur failed experiment, or make one solo and one group queue or at least duo queue so people can play how they want.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

What's driving both of your experiences is the MMR reset, not the exclusion of group queues. The sorts of games that you're experiencing now were always possible, though usually only after a very long wait in the queue, or when playing a new'ish character. If you've ever seen some of those screenshots of people getting 40+ killing blows with 0 deaths, that's how they did it - wrecking people that they outclassed in a low MMR game.

No one really knows how long it'll take for the MMR to even out to something resembling what it was before, but for now it's oftentimes a big dice roll. Sometimes you'll end up in games with mostly decent-or-better players, and sometimes it's just....yea, wow.

I don't really care about the mmr reset, it was meant to happen. And after a week + of it resetting i dont see it evening out.

It's the same old people that used to play bgs, with some low cp players thrown in.

What bother's me is the inability to play with my friends, and having only the options to either go cyro, which is literally unplayable in its current state, plus the combat thats in shambles as of late, or solo queue and pray to the rng god i have a decent team thats a bit less bad than the others, or go pve.

That is not how eso was like. It seems so funny, but this is the worst it's ever been.

Gregory_Mordyval

Sophieous wrote: »

That is not how eso was like. It seems so funny, but this is the worst it's ever been.

So true, so true. Amen!

Current play style in BG has nothing to do with fair play or PVP you are just praying to get good team mates. This game should bring player together to team. Our BG team vanished after game patch and all team mates are playing different games.

I can't count how many times I've read: I'll come back to ESO, only if the team BG returns to game. It is so frustrated to play BG after this changes and the only effect what this mad idea has is pvp players leaving game and playing other games.

Commandment

Gregory_Mordyval wrote: »

Sophieous wrote: »

That is not how eso was like. It seems so funny, but this is the worst it's ever been.

So true, so true. Amen!

Current play style in BG has nothing to do with fair play or PVP you are just praying to get good team mates. This game should bring player together to team. Our BG team vanished after game patch and all team mates are playing different games.

I can't count how many times I've read: I'll come back to ESO, only if the team BG returns to game. It is so frustrated to play BG after this changes and the only effect what this mad idea has is pvp players leaving game and playing other games.

I can second this, made a lot of my friends stop playing. It just points at the worst future outcomes the devs will lead ESO too. WOW is dead, now ESO is headed down the same path. Maybe MMO devs are seeing who can kill there game the fastest.

Long live the king ~ Scar - Lion King

james_738pub18_ESO

Gregory_Mordyval wrote: »

Sophieous wrote: »

That is not how eso was like. It seems so funny, but this is the worst it's ever been.

So true, so true. Amen!

Current play style in BG has nothing to do with fair play or PVP you are just praying to get good team mates. This game should bring player together to team. Our BG team vanished after game patch and all team mates are playing different games.

I can't count how many times I've read: I'll come back to ESO, only if the team BG returns to game. It is so frustrated to play BG after this changes and the only effect what this mad idea has is pvp players leaving game and playing other games.

I know 6 people who have quit ESO because of this rediculous change and am considering it myself. Taking away the ability to play with friends in an MMO... People weren't getting stomped because of premades, they were getting stomped because they suck. The change hasn't made a difference at all, bad players lose, good players win.

iALEXi

Sophieous wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

JWillCHS wrote: »

While I REALLY like how unpredictable and dynamic the fights are; the skill level just tanked. And considering how useless the MMR system is in ESO, will players ever see that high skill level of play in Battlegrounds again?

Sophieous wrote: »

You've turned bgs into an rng fest. Every team gets 1-2 good players and the team with the less worse players wins.

The competent players try to win by whoever kills the most newbies. Not by outplaying equally good players. This is not what bgs were like. You've completely ruined the point of them. And you've lowered the standard to the ground.

If you only cater for that kind of a player base that's fine. But there are other people who want the old bgs back.

So either revert ur failed experiment, or make one solo and one group queue or at least duo queue so people can play how they want.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

What's driving both of your experiences is the MMR reset, not the exclusion of group queues. The sorts of games that you're experiencing now were always possible, though usually only after a very long wait in the queue, or when playing a new'ish character. If you've ever seen some of those screenshots of people getting 40+ killing blows with 0 deaths, that's how they did it - wrecking people that they outclassed in a low MMR game.

No one really knows how long it'll take for the MMR to even out to something resembling what it was before, but for now it's oftentimes a big dice roll. Sometimes you'll end up in games with mostly decent-or-better players, and sometimes it's just....yea, wow.

I don't really care about the mmr reset, it was meant to happen. And after a week + of it resetting i dont see it evening out.

It's the same old people that used to play bgs, with some low cp players thrown in.

What bother's me is the inability to play with my friends, and having only the options to either go cyro, which is literally unplayable in its current state, plus the combat thats in shambles as of late, or solo queue and pray to the rng god i have a decent team thats a bit less bad than the others, or go pve.

That is not how eso was like. It seems so funny, but this is the worst it's ever been.

100% agree

Yes, this might have been an okay change for casuals who play solo and just want to get daily etc.
For any PvPer with friends or guild mates.... no, worst change
Cyrodiil during primetime is unplayable, we did BGs together to escape the lag.
Too bad that is now impossible and a lot of people in my guild have quit, because you can not enjoy PvP with friends/guildies anymore.

People will always complain, even before. I got called premade ***** and whatever multiple times, while just running solo, but with good players. Probably people will still find a way to complain about premades and cheating, even though premades are removed now.

Iskiab

Premades from what I saw weren’t about complimenting specs, they were just a way for people to exclude getting new players on their teams.

You can absolutely 1vX in BGs too. Not against good players but there aren’t that many, a lot of my games are full of new players and I have to 1vX because people aren’t playing objectives.

All getting rid of premades has done is encouraged people to play who otherwise wouldn’t because of ‘premades’, and now they just have to learn what they’re doing. It makes a lot of games a steamroll.

Commandment

Iskiab wrote: »

Premades from what I saw weren’t about complimenting specs, they were just a way for people to exclude getting new players on their teams.

You can absolutely 1vX in BGs too. Not against good players but there aren’t that many, a lot of my games are full of new players and I have to 1vX because people aren’t playing objectives.

All getting rid of premades has done is encouraged people to play who otherwise wouldn’t because of ‘premades’, and now they just have to learn what they’re doing. It makes a lot of games a steamroll.

Now those new players are getting stomped by that one group of fully experienced players. Same out come sorry.

Only difference is, you don't always see a premade, just a target to put your blame in. "THEY WON, THEY MUST BE A PREMADE!!!"

Iskiab

Commandment wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Premades from what I saw weren’t about complimenting specs, they were just a way for people to exclude getting new players on their teams.

You can absolutely 1vX in BGs too. Not against good players but there aren’t that many, a lot of my games are full of new players and I have to 1vX because people aren’t playing objectives.

All getting rid of premades has done is encouraged people to play who otherwise wouldn’t because of ‘premades’, and now they just have to learn what they’re doing. It makes a lot of games a steamroll.

Now those new players are getting stomped by that one group of fully experienced players. Same out come sorry.

Only difference is, you don't always see a premade, just a target to put your blame in. "THEY WON, THEY MUST BE A PREMADE!!!"

Yea, that’s about right. The difference now is the players who didn’t do BGs before never learned how to play with a team, where before they saw a premade now they’re realizing it was a L2P issue on their part.