Premades are OVER!! (At least, for now)

Kaartinen

Watching for the threads complaining about BG's when a large population realizes that pre-mades isn't why they were getting stomped.

Sharee

Kaartinen wrote: »

Watching for the threads complaining about BG's when a large population realizes that pre-mades isn't why they were getting stomped.

Even if someone got stomped for other reasons than premades (read: he is a bad player), he will have no reason to complain about the new BG's because with the new system, he will win more matches than he did before.

(since now he has a chance to get former premade members as allies, instead of always as enemies)

Commandment

Sharee wrote: »

Kaartinen wrote: »

Watching for the threads complaining about BG's when a large population realizes that pre-mades isn't why they were getting stomped.

Even if someone got stomped for other reasons than premades (read: he is a bad player), he will have no reason to complain about the new BG's because with the new system, he will win more matches than he did before.

(since now he has a chance to get former premade members as allies, instead of always as enemies)

So a culture where people want to be carried by someone better than them.

Sharee

Commandment wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Kaartinen wrote: »

Watching for the threads complaining about BG's when a large population realizes that pre-mades isn't why they were getting stomped.

Even if someone got stomped for other reasons than premades (read: he is a bad player), he will have no reason to complain about the new BG's because with the new system, he will win more matches than he did before.

(since now he has a chance to get former premade members as allies, instead of always as enemies)

So a culture where people want to be carried by someone better than them.

They do not need carrying, they just need the enemy and allied teams to be roughly balanced skillwise.
Take all the elitist asses out(on all sides) leaving the newbies without anyone "carrying" them, and see if they care.

wheem_ESO

Kaartinen wrote: »

Watching for the threads complaining about BG's when a large population realizes that pre-mades isn't why they were getting stomped.

While it's true that some people will blame losses on "premades" that were actually just decent teams of solo players, or play poorly enough that they'll lose to weak premades that they should actually beat, tryharding 4-stacks are a real thing. I actually encountered one earlier this morning, running with two healers and harmony bombing. One of the same healers was consistently premading with some really over-the-top Bombard spam a couple days ago as well. Without a coordinated team - especially if Team3 is basically feeding them and helping build their ult (which was the case this morning) - you don't really stand much chance of winning.

Artemiisia

Commandment wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Kaartinen wrote: »

Watching for the threads complaining about BG's when a large population realizes that pre-mades isn't why they were getting stomped.

Even if someone got stomped for other reasons than premades (read: he is a bad player), he will have no reason to complain about the new BG's because with the new system, he will win more matches than he did before.

(since now he has a chance to get former premade members as allies, instead of always as enemies)

So a culture where people want to be carried by someone better than them.

so you rather have a culture where people bully weaker players? (premades legendary geared players vs new players)

I see it more like this will make it a way more fair culture, where great geared, great skilled in combat players, low geared, weird geared, new players, rookies get tossed into a salad bowl and teams get randomly picked

Commandment

Artemiisia wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Kaartinen wrote: »

Watching for the threads complaining about BG's when a large population realizes that pre-mades isn't why they were getting stomped.

Even if someone got stomped for other reasons than premades (read: he is a bad player), he will have no reason to complain about the new BG's because with the new system, he will win more matches than he did before.

(since now he has a chance to get former premade members as allies, instead of always as enemies)

So a culture where people want to be carried by someone better than them.

so you rather have a culture where people bully weaker players? (premades legendary geared players vs new players)

I see it more like this will make it a way more fair culture, where great geared, great skilled in combat players, low geared, weird geared, new players, rookies get tossed into a salad bowl and teams get randomly picked

Uh, who gets better when fighting chickens?

Same thing will happen, good players will stomp weaklings, weaklings will still cry, but this time. Since you have no choice, you will get funny Tod in your team to pull you down because he reached an MMR he shouldnt have. Now good players will complain about getting stuck with the chickens and will most like make the environment toxic, while the bad players will point the finger at random conspiracy theories and trash talk the good players even though there being carried.

So now that you already removed team play and team building skills from bg's you also want a culture where everyone is equal in skill?

Player Previously stomped in "premades": "WAIT NO MORE PREMADES?!?!!? It must be because he knows how to animation cancel and use game mechanics!!!! ZOS PLEASE REMOVE OTHER MECHANICS SO EVERYONE IS ON MY LEVEL SINCE IM NOT WILLING TO LEARN!!!! PLEASE ZOS PAMPER ME!!!!!" HE HAS A BETTER SET OF GEAR THAN ME!! PLEASE ZOS, PLEASE DUMB DOWN ALL SET ABILITIES TO BE WET NOODLE ATTACKS PLEASSSEEE!! CATER TO MEEE!!!!"

Sharee

Commandment wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Kaartinen wrote: »

Watching for the threads complaining about BG's when a large population realizes that pre-mades isn't why they were getting stomped.

Even if someone got stomped for other reasons than premades (read: he is a bad player), he will have no reason to complain about the new BG's because with the new system, he will win more matches than he did before.

(since now he has a chance to get former premade members as allies, instead of always as enemies)

So a culture where people want to be carried by someone better than them.

so you rather have a culture where people bully weaker players? (premades legendary geared players vs new players)

I see it more like this will make it a way more fair culture, where great geared, great skilled in combat players, low geared, weird geared, new players, rookies get tossed into a salad bowl and teams get randomly picked

Uh, who gets better when fighting chickens?

Other "chicken". Kinda like you did, when you were a newbie.

Orjix

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

i suspect its a temp thing to evaluate the the grouping system, plus it wont hurt to find out just how good you are without anyone to help

no, I know how *** I am. I know I'll go 1/2 kills and 20 deaths, it just makes the game no longer fun. for PvP the hierarchy used to be 1. BG 2. Excel spreadsheets 3. cyrodill now its more like 1. Excel spreadsheets 2. who even cares?

Commandment

Sharee wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Commandment wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Kaartinen wrote: »

Watching for the threads complaining about BG's when a large population realizes that pre-mades isn't why they were getting stomped.

Even if someone got stomped for other reasons than premades (read: he is a bad player), he will have no reason to complain about the new BG's because with the new system, he will win more matches than he did before.

(since now he has a chance to get former premade members as allies, instead of always as enemies)

So a culture where people want to be carried by someone better than them.

so you rather have a culture where people bully weaker players? (premades legendary geared players vs new players)

I see it more like this will make it a way more fair culture, where great geared, great skilled in combat players, low geared, weird geared, new players, rookies get tossed into a salad bowl and teams get randomly picked

Uh, who gets better when fighting chickens?

Other "chicken". Kinda like you did, when you were a newbie.

Nah, I fought people better than me to learn how to PvP, and watch people make plays. Sorry to break your bubble.

giovanny433

mmo game that don't let me play pvp with my friends?
bah... i'm leaving eso for now

Pecoult89

In my view, this update is a big step back for this game. Me and my friends only play BG. I was wondering from some of the players that if you want to go group pvp we have cyrodiil. But cyrodiil is a big difference from BG. In BG, we enjoyed the trouble and fast. Within 15 minutes we could play many kinds of games and now it's gone. I think this change to solo queue is as stupid as if you did solo queue in the dungeoun finder. All the progress we should have thrown away. In fact, after the update we stopped playing ESO. I tried playing solo bg and I don't see there any difference. Likewise, if you get players in the team that don't know what to do, you lose. It's the same as before Update.
There's one solution. Do 1 queue solo and second for group. I do not understand that in testing is not this possibility. 2 different queue.
I have spent a lot of money and time in this game and I hope it was not for nothing, because if the queue soon repair will stop playing the game completely and I will be very angry.

Gregory_Mordyval

Kel wrote: »

Patch notes...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508802/pts-patch-notes-v5-3-0#latest

Battlegrounds
•You can now only queue as a solo player into Battlegrounds.
•Reset the Battleground matchmaking ratings for all players.

No more premade pug stomping.
This is exactly how it should've been from the beginning.

No more easy AP, no more massive advantage...everyone is now on a more even playing field and can't rely on personal pocket healers or group crutches.

Best change I've seen to the game in a LONG time.

Maybe you should consider to start to play Single player games, like Skyrim is my personal recommendation and not MMO games.

In my opinion ZOS killed the team spirit of small scale PVP. Not too many player what have passion for PVP are interested in huge groups of Cyrodiil, IC or being override by those groups. So that is why I welcomed the idea of BG.

Yes I been frustrated by pre-made groups and it was sometimes really painful to even play BG, but as always. There are two types of MMO players, those what are always uncomfortable with something and not doing simple step to change it, so they only cry the rivers and those who are uncomfortable with something, but they challenge themselves and they improve to be better.

Like I said I was frustrated by BG but then I found 3 other guys in guild what had the same experience. We made group, started to play together, reading builds, study mechanics, working as team, testing armor sets etc., had a lots of fun because that's what MMO is about, playing together and then I realised that we are winning with more then 70% pre-mades, what we normally lost.

Imagine how frustrated is now, after you started beating pre-mades, do something about it and finally have fun and not just cry solo and screaming like the entire Tamriel is unfair to you and ZOS kills team BG?

Yeah our group is gone and all team mates play different games since this unfair and dislike decision.

Good Job, ESO became to be not interesting game again for those who dont like PVE or massive group PVP hunt chasing one or two targets.

Idea: Create second Group Queue next to Solo queue dedicated only for BG groups please, it is worth of shot.

Have fun all of you.

TwiceBornStar

I'm glad pre-made groups are history, because now we can all enjoy a fair challenge.

TequilaFire

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I'm glad pre-made groups are history, because now we can all enjoy a fair easy challenge.

It was always fair if you put the effort in.

MurderMostFoul

I mostly solo queue, but I've done enough 4 man premade deathmatches to know what it is all about. The way i see it:

4 man v solos - pug stomp, not fun

4 man v 4 man - AOE spam, ball v ball, ulti-dumping, heal fest, match goes to time limit, with top team score around 250, not fun. (Or there is one team of solos that is clearly weaker and the premades race to kill them, also not fun)

Solos v solos - more dynamic, sometimes lopsided but often close scores between at least two team, players (including myself) die if reasonably pressured, matches end by hitting score limit, or close to it if time expires, more fun.

So I'm happy there is solo queue only. But i would prefer it to allow solos and duos (which don't offer to much of an advantage), so playing with friends isn't totally precluded.

I also wouldn't mind if they added a 4 man only queue. But i believe matchmaking may take way too long for it to be a realistic option.

Sharee

TequilaFire wrote: »

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I'm glad pre-made groups are history, because now we can all enjoy a fair easy challenge.

It was always fair if you put the effort in.

You know, that's like a pro NBA team taking part in a kindergarten basketball tournament, stomping all over the kids, and then explaining to them it was actually fair, they just didn't put the effort in.

DeathBySea

I think this was a mistake. I understand the concerns about OP pre-made groups face rolling everyone, but there has to be a better way of dealing with this (like a ranking system). The value of being able to form a pre-made group is that you are able to play with your friends. This makes the overall experience much more fun (even when losing). The fact that you took a bunch of people whining about not being able to win BGs and decided to remove a key socially interactive activity on ESO is disheartening.

I have been trying to get friends from WOW to come over to ESO and play, because I think this game has a lot more to offer. BGs were one of the things I propped up as a lot of fun and something we could do together while leveling. Now, I would be shocked if they find ESO BGs as appealing as they would have. Overall, I think you guys made a bad call that only appeased a portion of the gaming population and I hope you reconsider sooner, rather than later.

TequilaFire

Sharee wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I'm glad pre-made groups are history, because now we can all enjoy a fair easy challenge.

It was always fair if you put the effort in.

You know, that's like a pro NBA team taking part in a kindergarten basketball tournament, stomping all over the kids, and then explaining to them it was actually fair, they just didn't put the effort in.

Well then they should have a kindergarten mode then.
Oh wait, they have it now, problem is the big boys are still around to do the same thing solo.

Commandment

Sharee wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I'm glad pre-made groups are history, because now we can all enjoy a fair easy challenge.

It was always fair if you put the effort in.

You know, that's like a pro NBA team taking part in a kindergarten basketball tournament, stomping all over the kids, and then explaining to them it was actually fair, they just didn't put the effort in.

Uh, thats level difference your explaining. Try again.

wheem_ESO

TequilaFire wrote: »

TwiceBornStar wrote: »

I'm glad pre-made groups are history, because now we can all enjoy a fair easy challenge.

It was always fair if you put the effort in.

Wrong.

I could have been one of those people that refused to queue if I didn't have a full team of 4; running a dedicated healer, coordinating Ult dumps, maybe some Harmony bombing - the whole 9 yards. But if I wasn't doing so with 8 other players who were also running the same type of teams and trying to sync up queues, it wouldn't have been fair.

Sure, I wouldn't have been on a 2-3 person team getting spawn camped by the tryhards in that circumstance...because I would have been one of the tryhards that was spawn camping other team(s). Being on either side of that is very boring, and I'm glad that it's gone. I'd prefer that there were also an option of playing premade-vs-premade games, but this will do for now.

TequilaFire

No your just glad you can go in and 1vX easier against unorganized players now.
It's all about potato farming.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

I'm still hoping there will be a pvp mode thats just 4+ players, no teams, free for all death match, or other goal oriented mode, but point being... no capes, I mean teams.

MrGhosty

I had three under level 50s that I was only leveling by playing as a duo with my wife in BGs, now they just log in to feed their mount and log off. I don't blame solos who got frustrated facing off against premades, but the solution wasn't to stop people from being able to group. We just needed a ranked and unranked queue, unranked with no group restriction and ranked as solo only. At the same time they should have also introduced a way to people to set up custom matches so that guilds could square off against each other as well (no rewards obviously to avoid farming).

Either way unless this change gets reverted, I'm not planning to play bgs as there is no way to easily communicate with randoms. I don't imagine it will matter either way, but it is frustrating to have something you enjoyed doing taken out of the game (and before anyone says that the mode is still there, it's not. I played duo bgs and that option has been removed)

Pecoult89

Iam very angry for this update. I dont know, why you dont make one solo queue and second premade queue...after update we stop play eso with my friend because we play only premade bg...

wheem_ESO

TequilaFire wrote: »

No your just glad you can go in and 1vX easier against unorganized players now.
It's all about potato farming.

Barring cases of really extreme unbalance/brokenness, 1vX is only possible when the X are bad players who are heavily outclassed by the 1. So it was always possible at low MMR, since you'd sometimes get games full of people that aren't wearing Impen gear, don't heal themselves, etc...but it's just not a thing at high MMR. While having high MMR doesn't necessarily mean that one is a top notch player, it generally does indicate that they're "good enough" to not get 1vX'd.

TequilaFire

wheem_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

No your just glad you can go in and 1vX easier against unorganized players now.
It's all about potato farming.

Barring cases of really extreme unbalance/brokenness, 1vX is only possible when the X are bad players who are heavily outclassed by the 1. So it was always possible at low MMR, since you'd sometimes get games full of people that aren't wearing Impen gear, don't heal themselves, etc...but it's just not a thing at high MMR. While having high MMR doesn't necessarily mean that one is a top notch player, it generally does indicate that they're "good enough" to not get 1vX'd.

Except you don't have to be good to be placed in high MMR, just play a lot.
And I seriously doubt it was the high MMR good players that complained about organized group play.

wheem_ESO

TequilaFire wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

No your just glad you can go in and 1vX easier against unorganized players now.
It's all about potato farming.

Barring cases of really extreme unbalance/brokenness, 1vX is only possible when the X are bad players who are heavily outclassed by the 1. So it was always possible at low MMR, since you'd sometimes get games full of people that aren't wearing Impen gear, don't heal themselves, etc...but it's just not a thing at high MMR. While having high MMR doesn't necessarily mean that one is a top notch player, it generally does indicate that they're "good enough" to not get 1vX'd.

Except you don't have to be good to be placed in high MMR, just play a lot.
And I seriously doubt it was the high MMR good players that complained about organized group play.

As I said, having high MMR doesn't mean that a player is the best of the best, but it does usually indicate that they're good/experienced enough to not get 1vX'd. Given map size, player ability levels, etc...1vX'ing simply isn't a thing in high MMR BGs. At least not on PC-NA, and I seriously doubt it's much different on any other platform or server.

Secondly, there are certainly high MMR players that complained about premades. Some even complained about organized games with 3x premades often being obscenely boring. Because while those games could be fun sometimes, it often devolved into a game of ring around the roses, with occasional fights that would last for a few seconds as 2 teams ult dumped the 1 that got itself in a bad position.

With a bit of re-balancing and being cut down to only 2 teams, I think premade-only games could end up being really fun. In the current state of the game, though, it's rather bleh. Still better than having 1 premade team vs 2 not-full teams of random players, though.

Crucified4sin

So what your telling me is now I will never be able to pvp with friends in other alliances?

Sure I can make more toons,or just play with those in my own alliance in cyro.. but essentially you are taking away our ability to have fun with a huge chunk of friends.

I'm very disappointed that this was even a topic of discussion with zos. Those who solo queue CHOOSE to do so. They can group up just the same as those who premade. Have you been in any town zone chat? Lfbg?

Instead you (generalized) make the decision to play solo, and get stuck with less than adequate players on a bg. Because of that you complain, and ruin the one cross alliance pvp zone in the game.

Shame

(The use of the word you have been used generally, not singularly)

BuddyAces

Crucified4sin wrote: »

So what your telling me is now I will never be able to pvp with friends in other alliances?

Sure I can make more toons,or just play with those in my own alliance in cyro.. but essentially you are taking away our ability to have fun with a huge chunk of friends.

I'm very disappointed that this was even a topic of discussion with zos. Those who solo queue CHOOSE to do so. They can group up just the same as those who premade. Have you been in any town zone chat? Lfbg?

Instead you (generalized) make the decision to play solo, and get stuck with less than adequate players on a bg. Because of that you complain, and ruin the one cross alliance pvp zone in the game.

Shame

(The use of the word you have been used generally, not singularly)

Haha haha now you can't steamroll pugs. See? I can be a jerk too. There should be 2 separate Q's but since zos hasn't done it then apparently there aren't enough premades shown in their data to justify 2 different Q systems.