So 30 day No CP will be unlocked again....

x48rph

Varana wrote: »

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

I have enjoyed Alliance Lock NO CP campaign Bahklodaan due to having to actually build skillfully instead of being able to crutch on CP sustain for perma-dodge rolls and sustain etc.

With faction lock being taken away, it really takes the edge of war games from Cyrodiil in having pride in your faction for the campaign.

Real disappointed with that in the patch notes.

It's a roleplaying game, as in: I play a role. I do not play myself.
I can have pride in my faction - whatever that faction is. And when I swap chars, that can change. Because it's that character's pride. I as a person don't belong to an ESO faction. I live in 21st century Europe, not 2nd era Tamriel. It's an effing game.
If I cannot identify with one (or two) of the factions in any way, I don't roll a character from that faction. Problem solved, I can have all the pride I want. Others may be more flexoible, or can better distance themselves from their characters. They can do what they like, as well.
Now, being emotionally involved with one side, swapping chars, and rooting for the opposite five minutes later, is a bit of a stretch, I concede. A cooldown of 1 or 2 hours is a reasonable thing, also to prevent some of that precious abuse everyone is always bringing up. But changing factions and fighting for them with conviction, in itself, is not that exotic.

See, as someone who does RP I can totally respect and understand those role playing aspects of it. Unfortunately, I just can't get behind it cause previous experience has shown it doesn't go that way for most, hence my opposition to it as I remember all the headaches no lock previously caused. Even the rp spy argument fails because of game play mechanics. I can't kill someone or do anything to stop them even once they are found out to be a spy since there's no way to attack your own faction.

KINGOFTHESKULLS

RealPhoenix wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

Thanks ZOS, now we'll have to put up with all the trolling, alliance hopping, scroll selling and other antics again in No CP. So sad. I know , there are are probably plenty of for this and against it but still, not really looking forward to that crap again. Heck I've witness people intentionally give the hammer to another alliance on more than one occasion since that was introduced even with locks. Won't be nothing to it now that they can just hop on another character.

Please, at least put a decent cooldown on it so they people can't just hop back and forth between alliances at will every 10 minutes

You state yourself that faction lock is not actually preventing things like people intentionally giving hammer to another alliance. Faction lock does not prevent these things and never will. The only thing it prevents is people being able to play together with their friends, and actually use the toons they grinded up over the course of years on different factions.

Having faction lock gone wont bring back more trolling, scroll selling or anything. All this stuff was possible with faction lock aswell. The only thing it will bring back is the possibility for players with friends on multiple factions to play together again. And after all, playing together is what MMOs are all about

It did prevent a lot of that s*it , stuff like that did happen a few times and will happen no matter what but not as much as it used to when it was unlocked.

Shmoopy

KINGOFTHESKULLS wrote: »

Gonna bring more PvP for sure but at what cost?

LMAO

TheFM

x48rph wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

Yay, can play again my 8 other chars finally and play with friends left on other factions, thx ZOS

Oh yay, your troll group gets to aggravate everyone now and harass people even more. Woopdidoo.

And there we go. That right there is the real goal of the faction lock brigade. To prevent small scalers from playing which each other so they don't die to them.

Oh yes, that's it cause small scalers can't possibly play together with locks....

The non faction lock brigades real goal is to just farm AP with no care for the actual outcomes. They just like to pile in one faction, zerg everywhere to turn the map a single color and then all go pile in another so they can do it again just so they can farm AP with no concern for the actual outcome of the campaign or the people trying to win it.

Let's not forget them abusing low pop so they get the bonus even when pop locked, oh joy, we get to experience that all over again!

TheFM

Varana wrote: »

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

I have enjoyed Alliance Lock NO CP campaign Bahklodaan due to having to actually build skillfully instead of being able to crutch on CP sustain for perma-dodge rolls and sustain etc.

With faction lock being taken away, it really takes the edge of war games from Cyrodiil in having pride in your faction for the campaign.

Real disappointed with that in the patch notes.

It's a roleplaying game, as in: I play a role. I do not play myself.
I can have pride in my faction - whatever that faction is. And when I swap chars, that can change. Because it's that character's pride. I as a person don't belong to an ESO faction. I live in 21st century Europe, not 2nd era Tamriel. It's an effing game.
If I cannot identify with one (or two) of the factions in any way, I don't roll a character from that faction. Problem solved, I can have all the pride I want. Others may be more flexoible, or can better distance themselves from their characters. They can do what they like, as well.
Now, being emotionally involved with one side, swapping chars, and rooting for the opposite five minutes later, is a bit of a stretch, I concede. A cooldown of 1 or 2 hours is a reasonable thing, also to prevent some of that precious abuse everyone is always bringing up. But changing factions and fighting for them with conviction, in itself, is not that exotic.

One or two hours wouldnt do anything to curve zerg surfing, it needs to be 24 hours. That's how acompromise works

L_Nici

As we have seen in the past the Faction lock did not help at all against Hammer-, Scroll-, Keep-, and Emptrades, since big guilds or hardcoreguilds just took one half into the one and the other into the other alliance and with the next campaign they just swapped.
Faction Locks, especially on the big campaigns like Vivec on Sotha Sil, that are always at least 2-3 bars and in vivecs case poplocked, are completely pointless because it doesn't matter if 10 swap the alliance, since you still have 100 on the other side. Only if the campaign is low populated that alliance swapping turns into a big problem look at Shor for that, because if 10 people swap there, you basically lost half of your alliance.

TheFM

L_Nici wrote: »

As we have seen in the past the Faction lock did not help at all against Hammer-, Scroll-, Keep-, and Emptrades, since big guilds or hardcoreguilds just took one half into the one and the other into the other alliance and with the next campaign they just swapped.
Faction Locks, especially on the big campaigns like Vivec on Sotha Sil, that are always at least 2-3 bars and in vivecs case poplocked, are completely pointless because it doesn't matter if 10 swap the alliance, since you still have 100 on the other side. Only if the campaign is low populated that alliance swapping turns into a big problem look at Shor for that, because if 10 people swap there, you basically lost half of your alliance.

Since faction lock was introduced the abuse to the low pop system has Lol but vanished, the vitriol in chat had dropped significantly, scroll trolling has dropped significantly, zerg surfing has vanished nearly, so tell me again why it's bad?

Rianai

Low pop bonus is still there sometimes, chat is exactly the same, there are players that are trying to prevent their own faction from taking scrolls every single night because they are locked to the overpopulated side and can't fight those pvdoor heros that are ruining pvp, players are stacking more and zergs are bigger than ever.

amir412

x48rph wrote: »

Thanks ZOS, now we'll have to put up with all the trolling, alliance hopping, scroll selling and other antics again in No CP. So sad. I know , there are are probably plenty of for this and against it but still, not really looking forward to that crap again. Heck I've witness people intentionally give the hammer to another alliance on more than one occasion since that was introduced even with locks. Won't be nothing to it now that they can just hop on another character.

Please, at least put a decent cooldown on it so they people can't just hop back and forth between alliances at will every 10 minutes

(snip)

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Yeah they even switched the order of the campaigns for some stupid reason.

Its called "GETTING TO KNOW WHAT THE MAJORITY OF OUR CLIENTS ACTUALLY WANTS"

(edited for baiting)

RighteousBacon

Get over it you roleplayers. Jk...sort of. People should be allowed to play how they want to play. That means playing any alliance in any campaign. On console this campaign is all but dead. Alliance lock made that even worse. This could be good for us console players

x48rph

amir412 wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

Thanks ZOS, now we'll have to put up with all the trolling, alliance hopping, scroll selling and other antics again in No CP. So sad. I know , there are are probably plenty of for this and against it but still, not really looking forward to that crap again. Heck I've witness people intentionally give the hammer to another alliance on more than one occasion since that was introduced even with locks. Won't be nothing to it now that they can just hop on another character.

Please, at least put a decent cooldown on it so they people can't just hop back and forth between alliances at will every 10 minutes

(snip)

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Yeah they even switched the order of the campaigns for some stupid reason.

Its called "GETTING TO KNOW WHAT THE MAJORITY OF OUR CLIENTS ACTUALLY WANTS"

Oh no, someone (snip) called me a snowflake, how dreadful.

It's not getting to know your clients, it's getting to know what the very vocal MINORITY who kept complaining wanted.

(edited for baiting)

x48rph

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Get over it you roleplayers. Jk...sort of. People should be allowed to play how they want to play. That means playing any alliance in any campaign. On console this campaign is all but dead. Alliance lock made that even worse. This could be good for us console players

Ah, see most nights on PCNA it has a decent population and alliance lock didn't really change that much. Doesn't change my stance on the lock but hopefully removing it will at least bring some life back to console for you.

TheFM

Rianai wrote: »

Low pop bonus is still there sometimes, chat is exactly the same, there are players that are trying to prevent their own faction from taking scrolls every single night because they are locked to the overpopulated side and can't fight those pvdoor heros that are ruining pvp, players are stacking more and zergs are bigger than ever.

Operative word being sometimes, it is far less abused now than before. That is an irrefutable fact.

Rianai

A claim you have zero evidence for and that is purely based on your subjective feeling is hardly an irrefutable fact.

Sevn

Rianai wrote: »

A claim you have zero evidence for and that is purely based on your subjective feeling is hardly an irrefutable fact.

EVERYTHING they claim is purely based on their subjective viewpoint which is EXTREMELY narrow.

TheFM

amir412 wrote: »

x48rph wrote: »

Thanks ZOS, now we'll have to put up with all the trolling, alliance hopping, scroll selling and other antics again in No CP. So sad. I know , there are are probably plenty of for this and against it but still, not really looking forward to that crap again. Heck I've witness people intentionally give the hammer to another alliance on more than one occasion since that was introduced even with locks. Won't be nothing to it now that they can just hop on another character.

Please, at least put a decent cooldown on it so they people can't just hop back and forth between alliances at will every 10 minutes

(snip)

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Yeah they even switched the order of the campaigns for some stupid reason.

Its called "GETTING TO KNOW WHAT THE MAJORITY OF OUR CLIENTS ACTUALLY WANTS"

Calling people snowflakes when you can't even coordinate with your friend's which campaign to play each month?

Irony.

RighteousBacon wrote: »

Get over it you roleplayers. Jk...sort of. People should be allowed to play how they want to play. That means playing any alliance in any campaign. On console this campaign is all but dead. Alliance lock made that even worse. This could be good for us console players

Rianai wrote: »

A claim you have zero evidence for and that is purely based on your subjective feeling is hardly an irrefutable fact.

Ok, yeah, its happened maybe once in the last month on no cp pc eu, and happened EVERY DAY before faction lock, (snip).

(edited for baiting)

MincVinyl

So people would rather have a dead faction locked campaign so they can pvdoor in piece, than actually playing pvp (player vs. player) and fighting players. The faction loyalist argument really only works in 30day cp when it is pop locked for the majority of the day.

Id say the biggest problem that causes cyrodil pvp is when the playerbase becomes unbalanced and low. At that point your faction loyalist who only cares about their faction's score will never be happy since all they care about is a number that means nothing. If it means driving pvp out of the game, anything they can do to get that number higher is preferred. I am willing to bet that one night of pvdooring would offset the score that actual "faction flippers" cause alone. Most people who swap factions do not care about the dead alliance war score that means nothing, they just want to actually play the game and pvp.

The hammer trade offs are most likely somebody who is new to pvp or someone who is just terrible and runs into the enemy. I see it everytime in zone chat, where the faction flips out whenever the hammer instantly dies. IMO the hammer should never have been introduced, in a game that can barely handle a 20v20 fight, why would they add in something to draw in every single person on the server. Not to mention that it gives a free map flip during off hours in completely dead campaigns, once again making that faction score worthless. Dont be mad at fake "faction flippers" be mad at zos for adding in something that makes what you care about deeply nearly pointless.

---

Cyrodil is pretty much a shell of what it used to be, and on these dead campaigns there is little to no incentive for actual pvp. When I say pvp i mean actual fighting, not who can pvdoor keeps more. I've seen it in just about every campaign other than the 30day cp.

In lowbie(under 50) there is a clear connection between a higher server population and an even map. (usually it is people like me who have gone in and actively tried to keep the map even so that players will actually log in later in the day to fight, actively stopping pvdoor guilds in off hours that ruin the pvp experience for everyone in the campaign for the sake of their faction's score that doesn't matter)

in nocp 30day usually whoever wins the campaign is whoever has logged in, or stayed on till 3am to pvdoor the map to their faction, which will cause opposing players to not only fall behind in score, but actually take longer to log in. Nobody logs in when they are gated, unless it hits primetime and the map starts moving.

In the cp standard campaign there is pretty much nobody that plays in there for the campaign, they are almost always in there as overflow from the pop locked cp 30day

TheFM

MincVinyl wrote: »

So people would rather have a dead faction locked campaign so they can pvdoor in piece, than actually playing pvp (player vs. player) and fighting players. The faction loyalist argument really only works in 30day cp when it is pop locked for the majority of the day.

Id say the biggest problem that causes cyrodil pvp is when the playerbase becomes unbalanced and low. At that point your faction loyalist who only cares about their faction's score will never be happy since all they care about is a number that means nothing. If it means driving pvp out of the game, anything they can do to get that number higher is preferred. I am willing to bet that one night of pvdooring would offset the score that actual "faction flippers" cause alone. Most people who swap factions do not care about the dead alliance war score that means nothing, they just want to actually play the game and pvp.

The hammer trade offs are most likely somebody who is new to pvp or someone who is just terrible and runs into the enemy. I see it everytime in zone chat, where the faction flips out whenever the hammer instantly dies. IMO the hammer should never have been introduced, in a game that can barely handle a 20v20 fight, why would they add in something to draw in every single person on the server. Not to mention that it gives a free map flip during off hours in completely dead campaigns, once again making that faction score worthless. Dont be mad at fake "faction flippers" be mad at zos for adding in something that makes what you care about deeply nearly pointless.

---

Cyrodil is pretty much a shell of what it used to be, and on these dead campaigns there is little to no incentive for actual pvp. When I say pvp i mean actual fighting, not who can pvdoor keeps more. I've seen it in just about every campaign other than the 30day cp.

In lowbie(under 50) there is a clear connection between a higher server population and an even map. (usually it is people like me who have gone in and actively tried to keep the map even so that players will actually log in later in the day to fight, actively stopping pvdoor guilds in off hours that ruin the pvp experience for everyone in the campaign for the sake of their faction's score that doesn't matter)

in nocp 30day usually whoever wins the campaign is whoever has logged in, or stayed on till 3am to pvdoor the map to their faction, which will cause opposing players to not only fall behind in score, but actually take longer to log in. Nobody logs in when they are gated, unless it hits primetime and the map starts moving.

In the cp standard campaign there is pretty much nobody that plays in there for the campaign, they are almost always in there as overflow from the pop locked cp 30day

Speak for yourself, both campaigns are pop locked six hours of the day on pc EU. Even outside of the event , in fact bahlkodan is more popular tha ever atm

MincVinyl

On PC NA the state of pvp is pretty much:

CP 30day: locked: Pop locked primetime, with unplayable server lag 1-4 sec ability cast delay 3 bar off hours
CP 30day: Dead, usually picking up people who are fed up with server lag, or overflow from^
NoCP 30day: Dead, until primetime when players all log on if the map is not gated
lowbie: Dead the entire day, unless the map is even before primetime on a friday night, then it may reach the high end of 1 bar.

IC: dead 90% of the time, or there is one zerg that will leave after you wipe them once
BG: 30-40 min ques for unfilled teams against the same 10-15 people that all know each other (whichever team gets the healer usually wins)

---

during pvp events of course the pop will inflate, but this also goes the opposite way during non pvp events which seem to be just about every other week now

TheFM

MincVinyl wrote: »

On PC NA the state of pvp is pretty much:

CP 30day: locked: Pop locked primetime, with unplayable server lag 1-4 sec ability cast delay 3 bar off hours
CP 30day: Dead, usually picking up people who are fed up with server lag, or overflow from^
NoCP 30day: Dead, until primetime when players all log on if the map is not gated
lowbie: Dead the entire day, unless the map is even before primetime on a friday night, then it may reach the high end of 1 bar.

IC: dead 90% of the time, or there is one zerg that will leave after you wipe them once
BG: 30-40 min ques for unfilled teams against the same 10-15 people that all know each other (whichever team gets the healer usually wins)

---

during pvp events of course the pop will inflate, but this also goes the opposite way during non pvp events which seem to be just about every other week now

So because pc na is dead, pc EU should suffer, sounds about right....wait.

pieratsos

TheFM wrote: »

MincVinyl wrote: »

On PC NA the state of pvp is pretty much:

CP 30day: locked: Pop locked primetime, with unplayable server lag 1-4 sec ability cast delay 3 bar off hours
CP 30day: Dead, usually picking up people who are fed up with server lag, or overflow from^
NoCP 30day: Dead, until primetime when players all log on if the map is not gated
lowbie: Dead the entire day, unless the map is even before primetime on a friday night, then it may reach the high end of 1 bar.

IC: dead 90% of the time, or there is one zerg that will leave after you wipe them once
BG: 30-40 min ques for unfilled teams against the same 10-15 people that all know each other (whichever team gets the healer usually wins)

---

during pvp events of course the pop will inflate, but this also goes the opposite way during non pvp events which seem to be just about every other week now

So because pc na is dead, pc EU should suffer, sounds about right....wait.

So because some people care about a dumb faction pride in a game, the rest should suffer. Sounds about right..... Wait.

TheFM

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

MincVinyl wrote: »

On PC NA the state of pvp is pretty much:

CP 30day: locked: Pop locked primetime, with unplayable server lag 1-4 sec ability cast delay 3 bar off hours
CP 30day: Dead, usually picking up people who are fed up with server lag, or overflow from^
NoCP 30day: Dead, until primetime when players all log on if the map is not gated
lowbie: Dead the entire day, unless the map is even before primetime on a friday night, then it may reach the high end of 1 bar.

IC: dead 90% of the time, or there is one zerg that will leave after you wipe them once
BG: 30-40 min ques for unfilled teams against the same 10-15 people that all know each other (whichever team gets the healer usually wins)

---

during pvp events of course the pop will inflate, but this also goes the opposite way during non pvp events which seem to be just about every other week now

So because pc na is dead, pc EU should suffer, sounds about right....wait.

So because some people care about a dumb faction pride in a game, the rest should suffer. Sounds about right..... Wait.

Yeah playing a game by the intended way, without abusing low pop and harassing people, is horrible. Might as well get rid of all factions and have a giant free for all since factions, community health, and campaign are so unimportant to you.

ElvenVeil

TheFM wrote: »

Speak for yourself, both campaigns are pop locked six hours of the day on pc EU. Even outside of the event , in fact bahlkodan is more popular tha ever atm

what xd . pvp population is so much lower than it has ever been, what are you talking about. I imagine you are new to the game, because what you say here is just downright false. Population might have picked up a little recently, but overall it is a far cry from what it used to be. 200+ queue was entirely normal in the past

Ryanoxx

Best change this patch... faction lock is bad.

TheFM

ElvenVeil wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Speak for yourself, both campaigns are pop locked six hours of the day on pc EU. Even outside of the event , in fact bahlkodan is more popular tha ever atm

what xd . pvp population is so much lower than it has ever been, what are you talking about. I imagine you are new to the game, because what you say here is just downright false. Population might have picked up a little recently, but overall it is a far cry from what it used to be. 200+ queue was entirely normal in the past

200 queue was never the normal since launch, lol. The population tanked recently because of the dot changes, and even with it tanking both campaigns are full to the brim in pc eu.

BTW, that 200 queue from before, was pre faction lock removal xD.

TheFM

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Best change this patch... faction lock is bad.

Yeah playing on the team you choose is so bad, imagine being able to switch teams mid football game because one of the other teams is winning, or they have one of your friends on the team. xD. Logic.

MincVinyl

@TheFm I am obviously on PCNA, so i can't speak to EU population. The only place I have seen on PCNA that is still actively playing the "faction v faction v faction" is in CP 30day locked. Everywhere else is completely dead 90% of the time. Locking near dead campaigns in no way will help it to gain population.

Even before the dot meta, pvp population was near the same dead state. If I were to point at a patch that really drove the stake in pvp it would be summerset, which lead to the dreaded nerfmire patch.

Even in CP 30day locked I have not seen a 200+ person que in years, maybe the highest i've seen in the past year is 50-100.

Skorro

Yaaaaaay!!!

RealPhoenix

TheFM wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Best change this patch... faction lock is bad.

Yeah playing on the team you choose is so bad, imagine being able to switch teams mid football game because one of the other teams is winning, or they have one of your friends on the team. xD. Logic.

I really dont know why you keep coming up with these comparisons to football or baseball or whatever sports games.

Why would a 30-day alliance war between three factions and hundreds of players be comparable to a sports game, which:
- lasts hours, not days
- involves a couple dozen people, not hundreds
- takes place between two teams of fixed sizes, not three factions of varying size throughout the whole day
- has a completely different ruleset and is way more competitive

If you were trying to compare AvA to anything in the real world (even though I dont think that would get us anywhere) it would probably be historical wars, where it is natural that:
- numbers are uneven
- people switch sides and betray each other
- it lasts several days or even months
- it actually involves a couple of hundred or even more people

D3N7157

Finally me and my friend can faction hop freely again, some of the best fun we've had in the game was stealing enemy faction scroll and brining it back to our own faction just to trigger some pugs i cant wait to do it all over again