PTS Update 25 - Feedback Thread for Icereach

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for Icereach. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Did you enjoy this new dungeon?
• How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?
• Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
• Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?
• What level and build was the character you used?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Aliyavana

For lore purposes, it would be nice if the player arrow appeared in the map where icereach is physically supposed to be. Right now it just shows up at Jehanna where you enter the dungeon so it's hard to pinpoint the location

code65536

Group composition:

• DK tank
• Warden healer
• Stamcro DD
• Magblade DD

We completed Veteran Hard Mode. Did not attempt normal or non-HM.

Boss-specific feedback:

Kjarg the Tuskscraper:
It's not clear what caused the giant to burn--whether it's something that we have control over, or if it's something that just happens and that we can then take advantage of. This is one of those "hit it until it dies, but we're not really sure what just happened" fights, which doesn't feel very satisfying.

Vearogh the Shambler:
When we entered this boss room, we were in a conversation about something unrelated to the dungeon. And it wasn't until the boss was at about half health that I had realized that this was even a boss. We just hit it until it died. It was so unremarkable that it didn't even feel like a boss fight.

Final Boss:
If I had to describe this fight, it would be "Cloudrest +3, in dungeon form". We didn't like the boss fight very much. It felt chaotic, and the entire fight was just us reacting to things. It didn't feel like we had control over the fight and were instead just clinging onto a rollercoaster ride. The entire thing was "kill things while dancing around mechanics, rinse and repeat too many times until things died". In contrast, for example, MGF HM (after the revamp to Ghastly midway through its PTS) was a fight that, once you understood and had a good strategy for, turned from a chaotic mess into a clean elegant dance, and that feels satisfying. Icereach HM feels like the opposite of that.

The final phase was also a bit of a letdown, since it felt like nothing happened. Mother Ciannait appeared, we executed, and a little over 10s later, she was dead.

Similar to the other dungeon, we spent only a little over an hour on the final boss before we killed it on HM. As I wrote in the other feedback thread, if we are to use the time to clear HM for the very first time as a proxy for difficulty, then this HM is easier than last year's dungeons (except maybe Malatar).

https://youtu.be/jca3ga6IHyU

dowinterfor6

Preface: I've stopped playing on live servers as the combat changes/PVE content have made me lose interest.

Group Composition
- DK Tank (~17% of healing received from others)
- Magplar DD
- Magplar DD
- Magblade DD

Did you enjoy this new dungeon?
- Not really, wasn't too much of a challenge, fights weren't memorable and the last boss seemed to just be all the bosses thrown in a blender

How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?
- Seemed to be on par with vMK HM on PTS release. Slightly gimmicky and wasn't too hard once mechanics were figured out

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
- Veteran Hard Mode only

Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?
- N/A

What level and build was the character you used?
- Template DK tank (Chudan/Plague/Warrior Poet)
- Tried Chokethorn/Claw/Alkosh but was getting one shot

Do you have any other general feedback?
- My group usually does all the PTS dungeons on first release without healers, this was no exception, and progression was much faster than the others
- In terms of raw difficulty, most of the fights were lackluster and we just burned through them while ignoring mechanics.
- Last boss felt gimmicky as it seemed very smooth as soon as we knew all the mechanics
- My complaint about the last boss is that the stagger from the witch's heavy attack is extremely unfun to deal with, especially when the stagger leads into a 2h/giant heavy attack while I'm stuck in the stagger animation
- I believe HM is do-able without comms, as there weren't a lot of group mechanics (unlike i.e. vLoM HM), and this doesn't feel like good design
- Block animation is also extremely buggy

code65536

I ran Icereach HM again, this time as a tank, and my biggest concern on the final boss HM is with the stranglers. The initial spawn wave is easy enough to anticipate, since it always happens when that witch activates, but searching for and taunting them takes time, and by the time I've taunted them, they've gotten some spits out, with each spit taking out over half a DD's health and giving them a nasty DoT. If the witch is not subdued quickly enough, then there will be a second wave whose spawn is not telegraphed. So I don't know that there are new stranglers up that need to be taunted until a couple of seconds after they spawn, giving them even more opportunity to spit on and potentially kill the other players.

One suggestion would be to have the stranglers do reduced damage for the first X seconds of their spawn. For example, strangler could enrage after 5 seconds and do their 10K spits, but before that point, their spits could be made to do less.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

Group composition:
- Stam DK Tank
- Stam NB DD
- Mag DK DD
- Templar Healer / DD

Dungeon completed on Vet, HM's attempted once for fun.

Did you enjoy this new dungeon?
By time we got to the end of the dungeon I was thinking this dungeon was designed for the player base which argues that DLC dungeons are too difficult to do. Overall I found the dungeon rather bland, boring, and not engaging, but it was quick in and quick out.

How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?
This dungeon is certainly a bit harder than most non-DLC dungeons, but not as difficult compared to anything post-Imperial City.

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
I did not try normal so I don't know how the difficulties compare.

Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?
Maybe the last boss because the others were quickly and easily forgotten.

What level and build was the character you used?
810 CP, Stam DK Tank
Ebon / Alkosh (Lightening Staff)

Do you have any other general feedback?
I'm going to gush about Unhallowed Grave in the other thread eventually, but the two dungeons are so far removed from each other that's it's pretty entertaining they're both dropping at the same time. There's very, very little mechanics in the boss fights, nothing seems threatening, and really nothing seems cool -- whereas Unhallowed Grave was a fantastic ride visually and mentally all the way through. I felt engaged and excited in Unhallowed Grave. I was bored and indifferent in Icereach.

GrumpyKlam

DISCLAIMER: English is not my first language

Did you enjoy this new dungeon?

The dungeon is okay at best. The pacing is great (trash/bosses) but the bosses are very generic (and forgettable) with little mechanics. We just ignored everything and burned all the bosses on vet until the last boss on HM where we had to learn how to handle the mechanics.

The last boss on hard mode is interesting (much better than Unhallowed HM) but doesn't give much of a challenge.

How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?

This is not a difficult dungeon. We rushed through all the bosses without noticing any "real" mechanics happening. We made it to the last boss within 15-20 mins on our first run (blind). The last boss on HM took us 30-40 mins since we had to figure some stuff out because we didn't learn the basic mechanics during the other boss fights. Overall it took us about 1h to fully clear the dungeon on HM (blind).

During one of the pulls, we noticed that the fire was breaking the strangler shield. After the HM clear, we saw there was an achievement based on that. We barely notice the stranglers during the boss fight that teaches you that specific mechanic.

Overall, the dungeon feels like a non-dlc dungeon on difficulty, except for the last boss. If you have experience with Lord Warden HM and CR+3, you will have a little challenge but once you understand how to do it, it is very easy.

One thing I would like to point out is the strangler damage. The tank already has to taunt a lot of stuff and can miss the strangler spawn. You might wanna consider lowering the damage on spawn for the stranglers and increase it over time (like the poison dot in BRP). The way it is right now, it hurts the dps quite a bit on spawn.

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?

Vet HM (1 tank / 1 heal / 2 dps) + Normal (1 dps / 1 heal)

Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?

The last boss on HM. It offers a small challenge (we had to learn what the mechanics we ignored were doing). The execute (when the witch goes to the middle) could provide some extra challenge because the way it is right now, its only a dps race with nothing really happening. Maybe make all the side witches spawn their minions at once when the execute starts.

The other bosses are just sponges doing nothing that you can stack and burn.

What level and build was the character you used?

CP 810
DK tank
Templar heal
Magplar (Perfected False God / Mother's Sorrow / Grothdarr)
Stamplar

Do you have any other general feedback?

- The first boss (Giant) might need a slight nerf in health. He has more health than other dungeons (dlc) final bosses, even on HM (?!). Nothing really happens during that fight, it feels like it is unnecessarily long.
- Make learning the mechanics throughout the dungeon more necessary because you can completely ignore them until the last boss HM.
- Have the strangler damage ramp up during the last boss hm (like the poison dot in brp).

Overall, Unhallowed Grave is the better dungeon but Icereach has the better last boss hm.

LtSnowballin

@ZOS_GinaBruno This is us trifecta'ing the dungeon the day after the launch of the PTS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXKVJ_jRyD4

It was my 5th time in the dungeon as a whole, my 4th time doing HM. Surely something can be done to maybe make the dungeon a tad harder?

Alienoutlaw

Group make up:
1 tank 3 dps
Stam Nightblade x 2
Mag Sorc
Mag DK
Difficulty:
Vet (tried HM will go back)

Did you enjoy this new dungeon?

Visually the dungeon is very nice was a pleasure to move through and had some interesting ideas as we progressed further in

How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?

the first couple of attempts we felt rather rushed almost like we was on rails being taken through at a pace that confused the mechanics,
Kjarg the Tuskscraper:

Felt very clunky, no clear idea or telegraph for mechanics, we was expecting some new things so over thought alot of the things that happened until we ignored everything and just hit the boss.
Last Boss:
we tried hard mode from the very start but gave up and tried the normal Vet, i really enjoyed this fight, once the mechanics were figured out, again like the rest of the dungeon some are not that obvious or confusing but nothing that cant be over looked with a good burn

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
only Vet will revisit for HM

Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?
last boss by far felt that some time had gone into its design but this still lacked any coherence

What level and build was the character you used?
all were 810 carbon copies of our live server characters
My Mag sorc was
5 false gods
5 Necro
2 slimecraw

Do you have any other general feedback?
i dont feel this dungeon will pose that much of a challenge on normal in fact the only un-daunting thing about it was the 1st boss's health at 11 million. the pace of the dungeon feels rushed most of the fights are just a burn and any mechanic that was intended is lost in the confusion of the constant kiting needed for EVERY fight. the add's actually hit harder and proved to be the only real challenge at first. mechanics need to be better implemented and better telegraphed
in conclusion a good start
7/10

GrumpyKlam

Feedback #2 (Patch 5.3.2)

Vet hard mode

Kjarg the Tuskscraper:
- We can still stack and burn him without too much problem if tank doesn't turn him around on dps.
- He still has too much health for a dummy parse fight (11ish millions on vet) --> reducing to 8 millions might feel smoother

Sister Skelga:
- After Sister Skelga, we encountered a weird one way black wall in a door way ( )

Overall, this dungeon is still very easy.

@ZOS_Finn it would be nice if you could write a small thing about the dev team vision of the new dungeons. Were you trying to make easier DLC dungeons? How you come up with some of the ideas, etc.

FlawlessXD

Did you enjoy this new dungeon?
It had some engaging elements but overall it was a let down. I definitely felt that this was uninspired when compared with Unhallowed Grave, what happened guys?

How did the difficulty compare to existing dungeons on Normal and Veteran versions?
The hard mode is a cluster f**k (code aptly related it back to Cloudrest HM earlier in the thread) but it's still pretty easy when compared with other hard modes.

Did you complete Normal or Veteran (or both)?
I completed hard mode once in this dungeon as a tank with the rest of my group consisting of dps.

Which was your favorite boss in this dungeon, and why?
The coven was my favorite part of the dungeon because it was challenging. My group wasn't able to nuke anything down (like the previous bosses) and we had to follow the mechanics.

What level and build was the character you used?
I ran a DK Tank (max cp) outfitted with Earthgore / Ebon Armory / Perfect Olorimes.

Do you have any other general feedback?
I have some boss specific feedback (from a tanking perspective):

Kjarg the Tuskscraper:
I'm still unsure what enrages or cleanses the enrage on the giant but other than that, not that challenging.

Sister Skelga
We were able to ignore the mechanics a few times which certainly didn't help us on the coven fight.

Vearogh the Shambler
We were able to ignore the mechanics completely and I'm not sure what this boss does.

Icereach Coven
As a tank, I opted to kite the giant(s) around the center of the room because I'm still unsure what enrages or cleanses the enrage on the giant. I also tried the miscellaneous achievement where you have to use one of the giant's attack to knock the boss(es) down, it went swimmingly till I took an enraged heavy to the face.

The elemental witches themselves were alright but my main concerns as a tank were the stranglers and the giants. The stranglers would often spawn far away and would kill a dps or two by the time it was thawed. Other than that, the fight was pretty easy once we managed the mechanics properly.

Lastly, Mother Ciannait is a currently a non factor in execute. Maybe up her health and increase the pulsing damage over time.

ESO_Nightingale

The monster helmet of this dungeon is pretty unremarkable. And it dragged iceheart down with it. So its now even more universally hated.

Contraptions

Disclaimer: I have not done this dungeon on the PTS, and probably won't on live since most of my friends have quit, and most of my PVE guilds aren't really active now.

Based on the feedback here, this dungeon and UHG seems to be a lot easier than previous DLC dungeons and may be a shift away from the insane difficulty of the past 8 DLC dungeons, especially on veteran. Maybe this is part of a larger shift in design to make content more accessible to larger groups of players outside the top end, like with the nerfs to vHOF. Good. I think this will be healthier for the game overall.

I don't have the numbers, but I'm willing to bet the newer dungeons will see a lot more play if they really are easier. @ZOS_Finn I hope there are more plans to adjust the older DLC dungeons like you guys did last year after the release of FV and DOM.

Taleof2Cities

Contraptions wrote: »

Disclaimer: I have not done this dungeon on the PTS, and probably won't on live since most of my friends have quit, and most of my PVE guilds aren't really active now.

Huh?


You're still under protest from a combat or game change that happened a long time ago??

The PTS forums isn't really the place for patronizing comments ... we're here to give active testing feedback on a game we enjoy playing.

Trancestor

Another department at ZOS has given up on the game...
With all the success the game gets and it's huge potential how does this developer team manage to make every update so lackluster in almost every aspect and in most cases makes the game worse?