Templars should not benefit from being Vampires

Ratzkifal

OP has a point. No divine or Tribune or even Meridia would lend a vampire their magic.

However, there is also simple Restoration, which doesn't rely on divine miracles, so it's not exclusive to them. Aedric spear and some of the healing spells would probably go away if we were being realistic to that degree but I don't think we need to go that far. Renaming the skills to be more generic and less tied towards the divine would probably already be enough.

Aedric Spear would then probably be "Sunlight Spear" or something.

x48rph

StarOfElyon wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

You can't block an entire class from a skill line like that.

There should be even more drawbacks if you want to be a vampire. Vampire's Bane sits there as a reminder of what the class is supposed to be about.

You could rename that to anything else. Indeed, the other morph is called Reflective Light which has nothing to do with vampires at all. The base skill is called Sun Fire and both it and the morphs revolve around sun/radiant heat but since the strain of vampirism in ESO isn't affected by the sun, it's a non-issue.

If you don't want your templar to be a vamp, don't be one. Mine isn't.

Templars are based on Clerics.

"The cleric is a healer, usually a priest and a holy warrior, originally modeled on or inspired by the Military Orders... Most clerics have powers to heal wounds, protect their allies and sometimes resurrect the dead, as well as summon, manipulate and banish undead." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleric_(character_class)

It's no mere coincidence that Vampire's Bane is named the way it is. Templars should not be vampires. That's why I say, there should be additional drawbacks to playing a Templar as a Vampire.

Doesn't stop a templar from becoming infected with vampirism. There are more than a few "good" vampires in the game as well.
Also, this is ESO, not D&D. Templars are not 'clerics' , they are templars defined by eso as follows "These travelling knights call upon the powers of light and the burning sun to deal massive damage to their enemies while restoring magicka and stamina to their allies" No where in there does it call them clerics or members of any holy order at all

StarOfElyon

eco_TR wrote: »

But I want to joint the dark side not fair

That's why I also made a Necromancer who will become a Vampire. Necros are like Templars gone to the dark side.

SydneyGrey wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Templars are based on Clerics.

But some clerics are evil .....
In real life as well as in the game.

True. But I'm not saying that Templars can't be Vampires. I'm saying, they should pay an additional price for it. They should lose the potency of their power as a Templar since they've abandoned their cause. Like, if a real priests gets his power from God, if he goes down a dark path then God will no longer lend him power. He'd have to seek other sources of power. You get what I mean?

StarOfElyon

Ratzkifal wrote: »

OP has a point. No divine or Tribune or even Meridia would lend a vampire their magic.

However, there is also simple Restoration, which doesn't rely on divine miracles, so it's not exclusive to them. Aedric spear and some of the healing spells would probably go away if we were being realistic to that degree but I don't think we need to go that far. Renaming the skills to be more generic and less tied towards the divine would probably already be enough.

Aedric Spear would then probably be "Sunlight Spear" or something.

Exactly. Though I'd hate to lose that connection to the Divines. The "Holy Warrior" and enemy of darkness is a power fantasy. And that was pretty clear to me from the beginning pointing to the Templar. I mean, even the name evokes the Templar Knights who were a religious order.

Anhedonie

Check out the lore. You obviously have no clue what are you talking about.

Reverb

A Dark Templar would be very powerful.

Skwor

These posts to screw classes over for personal and trivial opinions are starting to get out of hand.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Weird. I never lost the ability to use certain spells I had learned before in any other TES game, when I became a vampire.

What was that about lore?

preevious

I understand your point, yes. Lore is important to me as well.

But seriously, if you think a template vampire is a no-no, just don't play one. Don't hold everyone to your ideals, please. That's ugly.

heaven13

StarOfElyon wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

You can't block an entire class from a skill line like that.

There should be even more drawbacks if you want to be a vampire. Vampire's Bane sits there as a reminder of what the class is supposed to be about.

You could rename that to anything else. Indeed, the other morph is called Reflective Light which has nothing to do with vampires at all. The base skill is called Sun Fire and both it and the morphs revolve around sun/radiant heat but since the strain of vampirism in ESO isn't affected by the sun, it's a non-issue.

If you don't want your templar to be a vamp, don't be one. Mine isn't.

Templars are based on Clerics.

"The cleric is a healer, usually a priest and a holy warrior, originally modeled on or inspired by the Military Orders... Most clerics have powers to heal wounds, protect their allies and sometimes resurrect the dead, as well as summon, manipulate and banish undead." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleric_(character_class)

It's no mere coincidence that Vampire's Bane is named the way it is. Templars should not be vampires. That's why I say, there should be additional drawbacks to playing a Templar as a Vampire.

I thought your argument was based on IN-GAME lore, not some offsite wikipedia article on what the class may or may not be based on.

If you read further in the article you linked, you will see:

A common feature of clerics across many games is that they may not equip pointed weapons such as swords or daggers, and must use blunt weapons such as maces, war-hammers, shields or wand instead. They are also often limited in what types of armor they can wear, though usually not as restricted as mages.

As such, I can only conclude that you believe we should restrict weapons as well. And wait! If clerics can't use pointy things and templars are based on clerics, that means that the entire aedric spear line needs to be completely reimagined!!!

[removed quote]

[edited for removed content]

Konstant_Tel_Necris

Arch-Curate Vyrthur was templar, he even use blazing shield to get rid of Serana grip.

ArchMikem

YAAAAAS ive been feeling this forever.

Aelorin

Even a templar can fall and succumb to the dark side. I would find it hard to roleplay such a character. On the other side, a lot of people just go vamp for the passives.

idk

SydneyGrey wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Templars are based on Clerics.

But some clerics are evil .....
In real life as well as in the game.

This is a good point and a valid RPG point. The templar can go to the dark side.

Nyteshade

This all implies that the Templar had a choice in becoming a vampire. Perhaps he or she was turned against their will and now the story line for the RP folks is the inner conflict and struggle of being both.

THere, problem solved. Gonna go play my Vamplar.

StarOfElyon

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

Arch-Curate Vyrthur was templar, he even use blazing shield to get rid of Serana grip.

I remember him vaguely.

heaven13

Nyteshade wrote: »

This all implies that the Templar had a choice in becoming a vampire. Perhaps he or she was turned against their will and now the story line for the RP folks is the inner conflict and struggle of being both.

THere, problem solved. Gonna go play my Vamplar.

This is exactly what roleplay is.

StarOfElyon

heaven13 wrote: »

Nyteshade wrote: »

This all implies that the Templar had a choice in becoming a vampire. Perhaps he or she was turned against their will and now the story line for the RP folks is the inner conflict and struggle of being both.

THere, problem solved. Gonna go play my Vamplar.

This is exactly what roleplay is.

The changes to the way vampiric powers increase will make such a role play interesting then.

Nerouyn

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Templars should not benefit from being Vampires. There should be additional, major drawbacks to being a vampire as a Templar. This is for lore and power fantasy reasons. I still value ESO as a RPG. And I play both PVP and PVE.

The Aedra are neither all knowing nor all powerful. So the idea that one of their followers could become a vampire and continue to draw power from them isn't lore breaking.

And despite the manner in which the skill trees are named, we don't know that Templars draw power from the Aedra. They might claim to do so and present in that fashion for political / religious reasons.

In truth they might just be performing restoration school magic which would accord with what we've seen in the single player games.

Vampires suffer no penalty for performing restoration or any other kind of magic.

BaiterOfZergs

If there’s any argument to be had, Templar’s should do more damage to vamps like dks do. Think for role play reasons a Templar can be a vamp because simply being a vamp doesn’t take away your powers.

Deathlord92

Anyone can be corrupted even a templar idea of a dark paladin actually cool

NyassaV

If Templar wasn't OP right now then I'd say no.

Skwor

NyassaV wrote: »

If Templar wasn't OP right now then I'd say no.

Saying does not make it true.

L2P, seriously there is nothing OP about a Templar, they can finally compete with other classes, this people call OP and it is lame.

phermitgb

heaven13 wrote: »

Vampires and werewolves can't be part of the Fighter's Guild. Necromancers can't be in Fighter's Guild or a member of the Psijic Order. Dragonknights can't be vampires. Once you complete the main quest and get your soul back, you can no longer use wayshrines.

Sound silly yet?

Actually, no. I mean, silly for an MMO, where "everyone" should have access to everything everyone else has, but from a single player RPG standpoint, it doesn't sound silly at all. I've played lots of games that lock out various skill line choices based on a class choice (or something similar) or an in-game story choice. Hell, even ESO locks out vamp/werewolf lines if you choose the other one...

So no. It doesn't sound "silly" to me. Yes, I do see the ESO forum community going batcrap crazy if they did it, and yah, I'd even probably find it a little frustrating to implement it now after the fact, but, like every single other change they've made in the game, the core gameplay experience is still fun for me, so I'd adjust/adapt and keep playing.

That's not to say that it's a GOOD idea - I'm just saying, it doesn't sound completely unreasonable to me.

jircris11

Rp is limited by your mind, example my khajiit is a werewolf/vamp hunter and she is a werewolf. Her line of thinking is "sometimes one must become the monster she hunts"

xxthir13enxx

Hmm...add an Anti-Paladin to the next Chapter and I’ll consider buy’n it!

Same skills as Templar...just dark animations instead of light...achieved via Templar becoming vampire...

Strange how this actually sounds fun to play to me...as opposed to the Templar I’m supposed to be playing now...but just can’t get into...lol

jircris11

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Hmm...add an Anti-Paladin to the next Chapter and I’ll consider buy’n it!

Same skills as Templar...just dark animations instead of light...achieved via Templar becoming vampire...

Strange how this actually sounds fun to play to me...as opposed to the Templar I’m supposed to be playing now...but just can’t get into...lol

Sooo a night blade in a sense lol (heavy armor, blood magic ect

xaraan

This doesn't make much sense. Templars aren't clerics or priests like we are playing dungeons and dragons. And even if so, you can worship evil gods/be evil priests. You can a be good vampire. Etc. Most of these reasonings that come up for RPG reasons are just closed minded.

Thevampirenight

This isn't d&d and magic is shaped by those who created the magic. Anyone can do it even a vampire. They have moved away from standard D&d tropes. Not every vampire is evil even vampires can still drown though we don't have drowning damage in game. I remember Skyrim and the Restoration Perk that made you more powerful but also weaker. Could do a lot of stuff with it.. All magical abilties are powered by the same source, Templars abilties and Vampires abilities included.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Magic
This raw energy, often referred to as magicka, flows from Aetherius into Mundus by way of the sun and stars, and from it the Mundus was created.[2][3] Magicka comprises every spirit, it is the energy of all living things and can be harnessed in a variety of ways. Despite thousands of years of study, there is an enormous amount of speculation about how magic is generated, how it might be used by Aedra and Daedra, and how it might flow between living things.

Templar abilties end up becoming standardized into the various schools of magic in the future.
Templar can be classified as Destruction and Restoration magic. Because of what it does. Sunlight and Spear abilties destruction.
Healing abilities Restoration.

Despite what people might believe. Templars abilties don't come from Stendarr but more inspired by him. All that power really comes from Aetherius and Stendarr can't keep anyone from using it maybe the vampire uses it to heal the sick or smite evil even yes even vampires can do that too. For Templars to not be able to use their powers just because they are vampire is lore breaking remember this isn't D&D.

Also Fighters Guild isn't Dawnguard is a neutral mercenary group that goes around doing stuff for people. During this time period though. See All Colars does her thing to change it and the other guy might be more holy the though Stendarr type. But fact is the Fighters Guild is more a group focused on combat and getting hired to clear out a goblin den or protect this location. Even protecting skeevers from lions that is what the fighters guild does. Sometimes they go out and slay bandits or vampires but because they got hired to do this not because they are anti abomination can sometimes even see vampiric members of the fighters guild as npcs.

They are not the Vigilants of Stendarr nor are they the Dawnguard. To prevent vampires and lycanthropes from using their abilties would be lore breaking because they are not a holy group. They are a neutral one that goes where the coin is and they are also their to regulate the hiring mercenaries as well and one of the biggest merc groups out there. The Fighters guild abilties are more specialized training likely introduced by Sees All Colars in order to deal with the Anchor threat and the stuff that comes from the Anchors. Otherwise they would train folks in the many weapons like swords, spears, axes, greatswords axes, maces and other weaponry.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fighters_Guild
The Fighters Guild, present across most of Tamriel, provides a common and, more importantly, public place of training, study, and employment for those of a martial persuasion. The guild is a professional organization chartered by the Emperor to regulate the hiring and training of mercenaries, protect commerce, capture or drive away beasts, and similar security duties.[1] Guild halls can take on a contract from any citizen, provided it does not conflict with the laws or customs of the region.[

j3crow

Thevampirenight wrote: »

This isn't d&d and magic is shaped by those who created the magic. Anyone can do it even a vampire. They have moved away from standard D&d tropes. Not every vampire is evil even vampires can still drown though we don't have drowning damage in game. I remember Skyrim and the Restoration Perk that made you more powerful but also weaker. Could do a lot of stuff with it.. All magical abilties are powered by the same source, Templars abilties and Vampires abilities included.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Magic
This raw energy, often referred to as magicka, flows from Aetherius into Mundus by way of the sun and stars, and from it the Mundus was created.[2][3] Magicka comprises every spirit, it is the energy of all living things and can be harnessed in a variety of ways. Despite thousands of years of study, there is an enormous amount of speculation about how magic is generated, how it might be used by Aedra and Daedra, and how it might flow between living things.

Templar abilties end up becoming standardized into the various schools of magic in the future.
Templar can be classified as Destruction and Restoration magic. Because of what it does. Sunlight and Spear abilties destruction.
Healing abilities Restoration.

Despite what people might believe. Templars abilties don't come from Stendarr but more inspired by him. All that power really comes from Aetherius and Stendarr can't keep anyone from using it maybe the vampire uses it to heal the sick or smite evil even yes even vampires can do that too. For Templars to not be able to use their powers just because they are vampire is lore breaking remember this isn't D&D.

Also Fighters Guild isn't Dawnguard is a neutral mercenary group that goes around doing stuff for people. During this time period though. See All Colars does her thing to change it and the other guy might be more holy the though Stendarr type. But fact is the Fighters Guild is more a group focused on combat and getting hired to clear out a goblin den or protect this location. Even protecting skeevers from lions that is what the fighters guild does. Sometimes they go out and slay bandits or vampires but because they got hired to do this not because they are anti abomination can sometimes even see vampiric members of the fighters guild as npcs.

They are not the Vigilants of Stendarr nor are they the Dawnguard. To prevent vampires and lycanthropes from using their abilties would be lore breaking because they are not a holy group. They are a neutral one that goes where the coin is and they are also their to regulate the hiring mercenaries as well and one of the biggest merc groups out there. The Fighters guild abilties are more specialized training likely introduced by Sees All Colars in order to deal with the Anchor threat and the stuff that comes from the Anchors. Otherwise they would train folks in the many weapons like swords, spears, axes, greatswords axes, maces and other weaponry.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fighters_Guild
The Fighters Guild, present across most of Tamriel, provides a common and, more importantly, public place of training, study, and employment for those of a martial persuasion. The guild is a professional organization chartered by the Emperor to regulate the hiring and training of mercenaries, protect commerce, capture or drive away beasts, and similar security duties.[1] Guild halls can take on a contract from any citizen, provided it does not conflict with the laws or customs of the region.[

You make excellent points. In other threads there has been discussion about a skill line for mortals, to counter Vampires and WWs, that would be exclusive to mortals for the reasons you cited.

There should be some kind of third choice other than Vampire or WW, that would be exclusive counter-play just as those two skill lines are exclusive and preclude one another.