Are some people just difficult to heal for?

BackLotBasher

Full disclosure: I'm not a vet player, and I'm not sure if I use what could be described as an "endgame setup". My toon is around 290, Templar healer high elf, and I use a mix of Magnus and Seducer gear. Nothing flashy. I like jumping into the daily dungeon (regular, not veteran) with randoms, and usually it goes pretty well. I mostly use a healing front bar with BoL, rapid regen, purifying ritual, healing springs. Sometimes toss down shards.

Anyway, yesterday I went into the WG Tower, and one of the DPS players kept taking TONS of damage. I mean, it was bad enough that I was having to fire off 3 or 4 BoL casts just to keep him on his feet, while the rest of the group was only taking chip damage. He starts squawking at me in the chat (you suck as a healer, bro - that kind of stuff). Considering that he was the only one dying a lot, is it safe to assume he was doing something to put himself in bad situations?

One thing I noticed was that his health bar sometimes grayed out, as if he was too far away and thus out of reach of heals, and tended to charge in alone and by the time the group caught up, he was half dead. I tend to stay back on the perimeter a bit, and wondered if maybe my positioning was wrong, that I should have gotten in close to the group and used that rune to buff everyone.

As far as gear, I do have a full set of Sanctuary armor, and noticed it's tailored to healing. Should I use it instead? Right now I have the other stuff because I can craft it for Training.

Ashtaris

Don’t blame yourself. There are a lot of DPS peeps out there that have no clue they shouldn’t be standing in that giant red circle and then wonder WTF happened when they suddenly died. As a healer, you can only do so much. Usually I try to do pro-active heals when I know someone is in a situation they shouldn’t be in, but even so I can’t have perfect timing always. They deserve to die

BackLotBasher

Ashtaris wrote: »

Don’t blame yourself. There are a lot of DPS peeps out there that have no clue they shouldn’t be standing in that giant red circle and then wonder WTF happened when they suddenly died. As a healer, you can only do so much. Usually I try to do pro-active heals when I know someone is in a situation they shouldn’t be in, but even so I can’t have perfect timing always. They deserve to die

That's what it seemed like to me. The tank in the group sent a message and said the heals were good, but this other goof...I wondered if he was even wearing armor at all.

Luede

if he eats to much dmg in normal dungeons its up to him, there are always ways to prevent dmg.

Alienoutlaw

in a normal dungeon most dps wont need healing, sounds like this person had issues outside of your ability to prop them up, wouldnt worry about it

redgreensunset

Your set up isn't the best (personally I'd switch Magnus out for Julianos but that's me and even then crafted gear alone isn't good for end game healing). That said, WGT even on vet isn't endgame by any means and you shouldn't have any issues healing people except perhaps with the Pinion Pest if someone grabs the pinion. But that can9be healed through anyway.

Sounds more like you had a DD that didn't know how to position themselves and generally had zero clue how to be a proper DD, such as " get the *** out of stupid, stupid". Lesson one of being DD, dead DDs deal no damage. Seems like this person have yet to learn that and considering their proclivity for blaiming others they probably never will.

As for gear. Unless this put you off WGT completely a good next step in build would be Spell Power Cure mixed with Julianos. I run that on my healer in training, an Argonian magplar, and she's doing fine. Really it's, more me who is a healer in training than her. It won't do for vet trials, but it'll hold up in most other cases and it's fairly easy to put together.

Ashtaris

BackLotBasher wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

Don’t blame yourself. There are a lot of DPS peeps out there that have no clue they shouldn’t be standing in that giant red circle and then wonder WTF happened when they suddenly died. As a healer, you can only do so much. Usually I try to do pro-active heals when I know someone is in a situation they shouldn’t be in, but even so I can’t have perfect timing always. They deserve to die

That's what it seemed like to me. The tank in the group sent a message and said the heals were good, but this other goof...I wondered if he was even wearing armor at all.

Do you remember what his health bar read duing the fight? Perhaps he ran out of his food buff. Going down to 11 or 12K health during a WGT fight could hurt even in normal.

BackLotBasher

Ashtaris wrote: »

BackLotBasher wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

Don’t blame yourself. There are a lot of DPS peeps out there that have no clue they shouldn’t be standing in that giant red circle and then wonder WTF happened when they suddenly died. As a healer, you can only do so much. Usually I try to do pro-active heals when I know someone is in a situation they shouldn’t be in, but even so I can’t have perfect timing always. They deserve to die

That's what it seemed like to me. The tank in the group sent a message and said the heals were good, but this other goof...I wondered if he was even wearing armor at all.

Do you remember what his health bar read duing the fight? Perhaps he ran out of his food buff. Going down to 11 or 12K health during a WGT fight could hurt even in normal.

No, I couldn't see any numbers on the health bar. Is it something I have to turn on in my settings?

BackLotBasher

redgreensunset wrote: »

Your set up isn't the best (personally I'd switch Magnus out for Julianos but that's me and even then crafted gear alone isn't good for end game healing).

Thanks, I'll try swapping some of those in. I find choosing sets and combos overwhelming at times, trying to decide which one to use 5 of, that sort of thing.

Alienoutlaw

Types of Dps players in ESO

1) low-mid level cookie cutter build from youtube steams in asumming their gear will make them immortal
2) high level dummy humpers who steam in thinking 80k on a standing target will make them immortal and die every 30s to mechanics
3) players who understand group play and are aware of tank and healer positioning
4) players with self heals that take pressure off the healer but still stay in range just in case and thank them for their hard work

Ashtaris

BackLotBasher wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

BackLotBasher wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

Don’t blame yourself. There are a lot of DPS peeps out there that have no clue they shouldn’t be standing in that giant red circle and then wonder WTF happened when they suddenly died. As a healer, you can only do so much. Usually I try to do pro-active heals when I know someone is in a situation they shouldn’t be in, but even so I can’t have perfect timing always. They deserve to die

That's what it seemed like to me. The tank in the group sent a message and said the heals were good, but this other goof...I wondered if he was even wearing armor at all.

Do you remember what his health bar read duing the fight? Perhaps he ran out of his food buff. Going down to 11 or 12K health during a WGT fight could hurt even in normal.

No, I couldn't see any numbers on the health bar. Is it something I have to turn on in my settings?

I’m not sure if the base game has it, but there are various UI add-ons that will show group health bar numbers so you can tell if someone in the group is low on their health. Another thing I do before the group even starts a dungeon is put a message out in group chat “Food and Weapon check”, just to remind everyone, including myself to take food and check weapon charges/armor.

BackLotBasher

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Types of Dps players in ESO

1) low-mid level cookie cutter build from youtube steams in asumming their gear will make them immortal
2) high level dummy humpers who steam in thinking 80k on a standing target will make them immortal and die every 30s to mechanics
3) players who understand group play and are aware of tank and healer positioning
4) players with self heals that take pressure off the healer but still stay in range just in case and thank them for their hard work

A lot of wisdom here. I played ESO for a long time thinking it was just a game with mindless spamming of skills. But as I started to look into the nuances of each class, it became apparent that there was a lot of skill involved in managing two bars of skills and being aware of the other players. I probably don't have the skills to run veteran endgame content, but I sure respect people who can pull this off.

ApostateHobo

Guy sounds like that fake tank I had that called me a pelican lol some people are just super squishy and pay zero attention to their surroundings, so they stand in stupid then blame the healer when they die.

Alienoutlaw

BackLotBasher wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Types of Dps players in ESO

1) low-mid level cookie cutter build from youtube steams in asumming their gear will make them immortal
2) high level dummy humpers who steam in thinking 80k on a standing target will make them immortal and die every 30s to mechanics
3) players who understand group play and are aware of tank and healer positioning
4) players with self heals that take pressure off the healer but still stay in range just in case and thank them for their hard work

A lot of wisdom here. I played ESO for a long time thinking it was just a game with mindless spamming of skills. But as I started to look into the nuances of each class, it became apparent that there was a lot of skill involved in managing two bars of skills and being aware of the other players. I probably don't have the skills to run veteran endgame content, but I sure respect people who can pull this off.

veteran content is just more complex mechanics and harder hitting enemies/Boss's, it takes just as much skill for a low level player to complete "Normal" content, if you have group awareness and knowledge of the mechanics ALL content is passable it may take longer but still passable

BackLotBasher

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

veteran content is just more complex mechanics and harder hitting enemies/Boss's, it takes just as much skill for a low level player to complete "Normal" content, if you have group awareness and knowledge of the mechanics ALL content is passable it may take longer but still passable

If I ever manage to grind my way to 810 and have some respectable gear, I hope to try more of the harder dungeons and maybe catch on with a group that doesn't get too wound up by occasional missteps.

Alienoutlaw

BackLotBasher wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

veteran content is just more complex mechanics and harder hitting enemies/Boss's, it takes just as much skill for a low level player to complete "Normal" content, if you have group awareness and knowledge of the mechanics ALL content is passable it may take longer but still passable

If I ever manage to grind my way to 810 and have some respectable gear, I hope to try more of the harder dungeons and maybe catch on with a group that doesn't get too wound up by occasional missteps.

810cp is kinda no better than a 600cp to be honest, cp does not equal skill, i've run sub 300s through some very challenging vet content without to much issue, find a group thats willing to teach you'll be fine

IndorilArwynLlethran

Tank dies - healer's fault. Healer dies - tank's fault. DD dies - kick that noob.

redgreensunset

BackLotBasher wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

veteran content is just more complex mechanics and harder hitting enemies/Boss's, it takes just as much skill for a low level player to complete "Normal" content, if you have group awareness and knowledge of the mechanics ALL content is passable it may take longer but still passable

If I ever manage to grind my way to 810 and have some respectable gear, I hope to try more of the harder dungeons and maybe catch on with a group that doesn't get too wound up by occasional missteps.

You don't need 810cp to do vet. For vet dungeons 300 is just fine. Heck even with your current set up you should be able to do base game and probably older dlc dungeons (such as WGT) on vet hm without too much difficulty as long as people know and respect the mechanics.
You may have heard this one before but find yourself a nice guild. There are plenty out there who run dungeons, yes even vet hm, for fun rather than grind/farm and don't mind missteps or the occassional wipe.

AcadianPaladin

Yes, seeing your groups health numbers is helpful. If I see a tank with 19k, I plan that they are a fake tank. If is see a dps with 11-12k, I suggest they eat some food.

BackLotBasher

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Yes, seeing your groups health numbers is helpful. If I see a tank with 19k, I plan that they are a fake tank. If is see a dps with 11-12k, I suggest they eat some food.

Is there a way for me to tell what my own dps is?

Alienoutlaw

BackLotBasher wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Yes, seeing your groups health numbers is helpful. If I see a tank with 19k, I plan that they are a fake tank. If is see a dps with 11-12k, I suggest they eat some food.

Is there a way for me to tell what my own dps is?

on PC addon called Combat Metrics, on console beat a dummy

akdave0

Sanctuary and any of these sets will bump your healz up. My main healer is a HE Templar.
Jovulds Guidance buff bonus always good.
Mothers sorrow high crit value for healz is great.
Kragenacs good for potato players who need res a lot.
Destruction mastery great for hybrid dps/healer builds, gets you over 40k Magicka and allows bar swap to help deal with attacks on you and support to finish fights faster.
Julianos great match with healing sets for boosting Magicka.
Crafty Afiq again good magic boosting set.
Worms rainment fair set in my mind, if running sanctuary it kinda muddies the waters.

Other than that, be sure to have shards and orbs in your toolkit. Orbs takes pressure off you when things get heavy. Shards help dps regen mag/stam hopefully allowing them to beat down whatever faster with higher resources. Hasty prayer over boL because you get a speed buff for the same heal return. I recently dropped healing springs for channeled focus for the resistance bonuses and mag recovery. This works well on boss fights for potato players who won’t fight from range.

An example rotation: boss fight:
I will run up next to tank drop
Extended ritual
Channeled focus
Roll to the back of stack
Orb
Combat prayer
Hasty prayer
Heavy attack
Shards
Adjust to dynamic mechanics
Repeat

Aelorin

By the way you describe things I can tell that it was not your fault. You did your best. You even tried to figure out if you were doing something wrong.

Why does his health go down so fast?
- Not using shields himself
- Standing in red
- Charging forward taking all aggro
- Not using food (low health)
- Bad distribution of stats (glass canon build)

I stronly suggest to get an addon to check for the health of your group members, so you can ask to eat some food before battle.

code65536

If you're on PC, you might want to try out this addon: LGM

It has a bunch of features, but my favorite is the group death recap. Whenever someone dies, you can look and see the timeline of events that led to their death. How much damage they took (and from what source), how much healing they took, and whether or not they shielded or blocked.

It's great for answering the question, "What killed you?" You can then see exactly why someone in your group died. Whether it's because the tank didn't have aggro or whether they stood in stupid or whether it was a lack of healing.

And I find it very useful in any sort of group content, even dungeon PUGs. Someone dies, I can see at a glance exactly what killed them, and if necessary, I can offer advice and tips on how to avoid it next time.

BeamsForDemacia

@Alienoutlaw if i thank the heal for his hard work i hope he also appreciates the hard work to kill the bosses

Grianasteri

BackLotBasher wrote: »

Full disclosure: I'm not a vet player, and I'm not sure if I use what could be described as an "endgame setup". My toon is around 290, Templar healer high elf, and I use a mix of Magnus and Seducer gear. Nothing flashy. I like jumping into the daily dungeon (regular, not veteran) with randoms, and usually it goes pretty well. I mostly use a healing front bar with BoL, rapid regen, purifying ritual, healing springs. Sometimes toss down shards.

Anyway, yesterday I went into the WG Tower, and one of the DPS players kept taking TONS of damage. I mean, it was bad enough that I was having to fire off 3 or 4 BoL casts just to keep him on his feet, while the rest of the group was only taking chip damage. He starts squawking at me in the chat (you suck as a healer, bro - that kind of stuff). Considering that he was the only one dying a lot, is it safe to assume he was doing something to put himself in bad situations?

One thing I noticed was that his health bar sometimes grayed out, as if he was too far away and thus out of reach of heals, and tended to charge in alone and by the time the group caught up, he was half dead. I tend to stay back on the perimeter a bit, and wondered if maybe my positioning was wrong, that I should have gotten in close to the group and used that rune to buff everyone.

As far as gear, I do have a full set of Sanctuary armor, and noticed it's tailored to healing. Should I use it instead? Right now I have the other stuff because I can craft it for Training.

In short, yes, some people are far far more difficult to heal and keep alive, than others. That is actually natural to an extent, everyone has different levels of experience, skill and play style and we need to understand this.

I take it as a challenge to keep these people alive, I particularly enjoy healing through insane amounts of damage, it feels great to be the healer who stops a group wiping and keeps folk alive to defeat that boss.

Now as a healer, you have to get used to being the source of blame when things go wrong. Learn to analyse what has gone wrong yourself, and ignore the haters, you already seem to be doing this so are ahead of the game! It is not possible to heal people through stupid, if they stand in red or dont block big hits or a tank isnt absorbing the damage they should be, then its not a healers fault or responsibility to work miracles. But unthinking and/or ignorant folk will still blame you!

I always try to provide constructive criticism. For instance I was healing a group that kept wiping, and I was being blamed for this. But the fact is that the tank was not maintaining taunt on the boss, and therefore the group was taking huge 100k hits, which are impossible to heal through. Trying to highlight this constructively in chat, prompted a torrent of abuse, so much abuse that the tank was whispering me after the dungeon with even more abuse. You cant win with these people, just ignore them.

As for sets, remember that the bulk of your healing and gameplay performance is down to you & the skills you use, not your sets. But that said I think you can absolutely improve on what you are wearing...

Keeping things simple, you mentioned Sanctuary which is a healing set and is good for newer healers getting started, its an easy, short farm to get on the body and it works in trial groups, so by all means go for that if you like (replace Magnus, keep Seducer). However my preference & advice for you would be not to bother, and instead to go get a set of Spell Power Cure, which is ideal for dungeons (then upgrade to Olorime trial set when ready/able). You could also consider Kagranec set which is craftable and great for new healers. You could also just chuck a set of Julianos on, that again would be preferable to Magnus. If you are really struggling for magica sustain and are running out etc, then instead of Magnus I would suggest Bright Throats Boast, which is an overland set easily obtainable (and would then upgrade to False God when ready/able). What you may want to think about is heading towards a more end game/meta healing set up, with the likes of Olorime and something like False God paired instead of your existing set up. Thankfully there are actually plenty of healing options, other options include Jorvulds, Worms raiment, Infallible aether, Cold Harbour...

Hope that all makes sense. Happy gaming and happy healing!
.

thadjarvis

Healing frustrated or new players in dungeons can be a thankless job but there are a few things I did when starting out that made it much smoother and salvageable.

The run could be suffering from a few things:

1) DD's are running around kiting enemies (and themselves) away from supports. It's a natural reaction but also not helpful. Slotting smart no-look heals helps heeps. I've learned up to some of the hardest content Ward (Ward Ally for beginners) and Radiant Regen is all that is required to keep people alive. I suggest trying those.

2) DPS is so low it either doesn't meet a wipe mechanic threshold or makes the encounter too difficult for the group's mechanic handling ability. Either stack and slot 2-3 AOE heals or use method 1 for non-stacking group. Then focus everything else on damage: skills, sets, whatever you have.

4) The tank can't stay alive without a healer outside of a few DLC hm's: they are likely either a "fake tank" or in too difficult of content. Keeping a HoT or two on them and blood altar down. Burst healing can help but many mechanics pulls the DD's away from tank and they need you more.

5) The tank cannot maintain taunt or perform other basic functions. Volunteer to tank. Have Inner Fire skill opened, use light armor and/or Ward Ally shields and put your AOE HoT's on the ground. Remarkably teammates will usually get the idea that stacking is good because most players will respect that you're not going to both tank and chase them down. If this seems scary that's ok; craft and keep a set of light Fortified Brass and/or wear Lord Warden and you'll be fine.

6) People dying from one-shots not due to lack of taunt: there's nothing you can do during the encounter. Best option is to copy/paste the mechanics from ESO planet or refer to a Xynode All About Mechanics text or video.


IMO "Healers" are not healers; they are support. We can allocate our resources, sets, skills, etc. to healing, damage, buffing, or even tanking (vDLC typically no for tanking)...whatever the group needs.

Eg
First time I ever tanked was in a nWGT run on my healer at 200ish CP. We had three lvl 45-50 and they were totally new to DLCs. After volunteering to tank it took some time, but we all had fun.

azjuwelz

BackLotBasher wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

BackLotBasher wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

Don’t blame yourself. There are a lot of DPS peeps out there that have no clue they shouldn’t be standing in that giant red circle and then wonder WTF happened when they suddenly died. As a healer, you can only do so much. Usually I try to do pro-active heals when I know someone is in a situation they shouldn’t be in, but even so I can’t have perfect timing always. They deserve to die

That's what it seemed like to me. The tank in the group sent a message and said the heals were good, but this other goof...I wondered if he was even wearing armor at all.

Do you remember what his health bar read duing the fight? Perhaps he ran out of his food buff. Going down to 11 or 12K health during a WGT fight could hurt even in normal.

No, I couldn't see any numbers on the health bar. Is it something I have to turn on in my settings?

If you're on console, there is a toggle to turn on actual numbers on health bars (and percentages) under Options. The fact the dps name was grayed out meant they were probably out of range of your heals.

BaiterOfZergs

From playing multiple mmos and healing dungeons I can tell you some players simply don’t know how to be healed and they’ll think they’re immortal because a healer is in the group. This leads to them playing recklessly. Not keeping up buffs, bad positioning, no shield/heal being used and in some games they don’t protect the healer.

FrancisCrawford

Some good comments here.

• It makes perfect sense to heal using two generic strong magicka sets -- Julianos, Mother's Sorrow, and Seducer are the three obvious ones to choose among.
• Worm Cult is a mediocre replacement for one of those sets if the damage dealers are both stamina-based, but quite strong if they're both magicka-based.
• Actually, healers should wear a Major Courage set if they have it. Since you've been doing White-Gold Tower, Spell Power Cure should be accessible to you. (The other such set, Olorime, comes from a trial.)
• That said -- if you run SPC, you need to have HoTs (Heals Over Time) up constantly. I prefer Radiating Regeneration, and thus forgo the Rapid Regeneration morph. Ritual of Retribution, while good, is restricted to a circle not everybody will necessarily stand in.
• As per a recent thread, I love using the Earthgore monster set. But if you don't have, it surely won't be on sale at The Golden again for many months.
• If somebody runs out of range of your heals, there's little you can do.
• I favor Honor the Dead over the Breath of Life morph.
• The Sanctuary set rarely is worth using. That said, my one big success with it was healing an inexperienced pinion holder in vWGT.

MashmalloMan

Most of the dungeons can be self-healed through depending on your class. As a stam sorc that always uses Crit Surge in pug dungeons, I never blame the healer if I die. I guarantee it's my fault so the fact that they blamed you tells me it wasn't your fault to begin with, they're simply looking for someone to blame. They also have probably never played a healer before so they don't understand that heals aren't 100% available all the time unless your positioned properly, it shouldn't be the healers job to run after a DD that can't stay in proper line of sight. All I expect from healers are Synergies at this point.