how do you think pvp would play if healing was gutted to near useless?

Wing

say battle spirit was changed to gut nearly all forms healing / shields / health regen / blocking etc by like 90%

but increased the amount of flat hp for being in pvp up from the ~5k bonus up to a ~20k bonus



how do you think cyro / pvp would play out if people actually did constantly die?

would it be more fun
less fun
how would it effect group play
what about solo
sieges
BG's
etc.


personally I would be willing to try it for a hot sec just to see what would happen.

in fact as I say this I wish there was a live week long campaign that tested changes like this, that they could change battle spirit effects on a weekly bases and get community feedback, just go balls to the walls with some radical changes and see how it plays for a week.

WildRaptorX

A lot less fun.
There would be less survivable situations and you will spend most of your time respawning at keeps and running backwards and forwards

Wing

Keylun wrote: »

A lot less fun.
There would be less survivable situations and you will spend most of your time respawning at keeps and running backwards and forwards

mmm something might need to be adjusted about horse simulator true.

however do you think people would be willing to just throw themselves to their death if death were such a threat? for instance with survivability the way it is we are in a cyro state of just bouncing around in front of each other not caring, I doubt that would continue if death were a certain result of that.

MajBludd

I'm sure we will find out soon with all the nerf healing threads.

kollege14a5

Less fun. If you have a Problem with survivability at the moment then try out no cp.

Sanguinor2

Any class that relies mainly on healing for defense will be dead, stam will have a massive Advantage with way more dodgerolls, there will be a lot more fights from range if you cant recover from being shot from 41m, outnumbered fights will be About as impossible as it gets since you will never be able to recover from any Damage you get, nearly every dot will make any healing useless. Encourages more stacking to have more healers healing People, no one without a purge bot would be able to do anything against sieges, no one will be able to enter a decently defended breach since you will just die to sieges without healing.

oxygen_thief

use dots and hide till your opponent death

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Everyone would make tank builds and zerg even more than now

Iskiab

I think you’d love it... if you’re a sorc.

VaranisArano

Iskiab wrote: »

I think you’d love it... if you’re a sorc.

That's one way to make damage shield great again.

DocFrost72

Everyone would play rolling dodge builds at max range, no one would push into a siege without a camp. It'd be long stalemates and people would prioritize not dying over everything else.

Ragnarock41

I believe classes who rely on self healing would be really, really bad and abilities such as cloak, shimmering shield etc that give you free defense would end up really, really overpowered.

The idea of an ESO PvP where people actually die and fights eventually end, is really appealing however completely killing off-healing would be such a ZOS way of handling the problem with current meta.

KillsAllElves

2 years ago there was a thread similar to this one on the forums here.

One comment stood out from the rest of other comments- if i remember correctly, Alot of forum users have played call of duty and other games where there are no class healing abilities and no body was crying for self healing they just played the game... I have to agree with this.
If cyrodiil did not allow for self healing, i think pvp would be alot funner the way it is now.

Kadoin

Considering the problem is damage reduction, healing, and the players themselves not wanting to die using wet noodle builds or cookie-cutter builds they think are OP that everyone knows how to counter, then the only thing that would happen is that:

1. you weaken the one vs the many more

2. Everyone becomes tankier (not everyone is a tank that you think they are, in fact I tank 50+ @ 13K resist without shields all the time because of roll and block, not healing like the forums keep claiming. Healing useful, but ain't nothing gonna save you when you get hit by damage equal to your HP, so you are better off reducing it everytime and then bothering with healing. All that would happen is I increase the sources of healing and/or slot an hp pot instead of using no pots like I do now ) When they nerf healing I will also get major protection from BRP DW that I have held off using because I feel its too cheesy

3. The game favors stam even more (all my mag chars gonna get dumped in the trash for sure)

4. The game favors builds that don't actively invest in healing even more (proc set builds, builds that use HP% heals, etc. making tanks an even more viable option than they already are except restricted to certain classes that already rule the game: DK, Warden.).

5. Zerging will increase because the game will favor either people that do a lot of damage at once, or that take damage and wait - kind of like now, except the players that don't know no better will be at an even greater disadvantage because there will be little to no counter to all the damage that, in my opinion, is too high

That's right, I said what no one wants to admit: the damage is too high, and with all the buggy CC from things like vamp drain and volcanic rune, ain't no one gonna be enjoying PvP without 30K resist when healings nerfed. Then what will be nerfed next? Blocking? Rolling?

If ZOS wants to really fix the problem, they need to address class and racial balance again. You can't have a few classes (and virtually all of stam) do an insane amount of damage at once with a "combo," that people claim is difficult when its not, and then not expect there to be a response from players to build extremely tanky and high hp heals. It's just not logical.

After all, the playa gonna do what they gotta to either win or "enjoy" the game. As long as that's the case, imaging nerfing healing will actually solve anything is beyond a joke; it's just plain stupid.

TLDR: wont solve anything

Gilvoth

how do you think pvp would play if healing was gutted to near useless?

pvp would play Normaly like it does in all the other MMO's.
there would be the normal loss of health just like we see in every mmo on the market.
eso is the only mmo i have ever played that we see people instantly heal from .01% health in a fight to 100% full health in what looks like 1 click. it is an unfair advantage given to healers and heal builds that should not exist in pvp.

Kadoin

Gilvoth wrote: »

how do you think pvp would play if healing was gutted to near useless?

pvp would play Normaly like it does in all the other MMO's.
there would be the normal loss of health just like we see in every mmo on the market.
eso is the only mmo i have ever played that we see people instantly heal from .01% health in a fight to 100% full health in what looks like 1 click. it is an unfair advantage given to healers and heal builds that should not exist in pvp.

You're a funny one. Healers have an unfair advantage?

The problem is that in ESO PvP, everybody is a healer!

ThePhantomThorn

Dot Gank

katorga

Kadoin wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

how do you think pvp would play if healing was gutted to near useless?

pvp would play Normaly like it does in all the other MMO's.
there would be the normal loss of health just like we see in every mmo on the market.
eso is the only mmo i have ever played that we see people instantly heal from .01% health in a fight to 100% full health in what looks like 1 click. it is an unfair advantage given to healers and heal builds that should not exist in pvp.

You're a funny one. Healers have an unfair advantage?

The problem is that in ESO PvP, everybody is a healer!

This guy gets it. Every MMO PVP had healers with massive healing capability, unlike what the original poster said, but it was always a dedicated healer class, or it required you to give up damage to spec into healing. In this game a full damage pvp build has massive healing.

On the other hand, this is probably the third cycle of "healing is too strong" whines. It is always the result of previous calls to nerf something. All those nerf defile threads from a few years ago look mistaken now.

CompM4s

Smallscale and solo players would be zerged even more

usmguy1234

Wing wrote: »

say battle spirit was changed to gut nearly all forms healing / shields / health regen / blocking etc by like 90%

but increased the amount of flat hp for being in pvp up from the ~5k bonus up to a ~20k bonus



how do you think cyro / pvp would play out if people actually did constantly die?

would it be more fun
less fun
how would it effect group play
what about solo
sieges
BG's
etc.


personally I would be willing to try it for a hot sec just to see what would happen.

in fact as I say this I wish there was a live week long campaign that tested changes like this, that they could change battle spirit effects on a weekly bases and get community feedback, just go balls to the walls with some radical changes and see how it plays for a week.

Imo I think if zos just got rid of aoe heals and made people focus on self healing a lot of the pvp issues would go away. That could be written in to battle spirit so it doesn't effect pve. Though that might make dedicated healers in pvp mad. Somehow they need to make aoe heals less brainless. Maybe something like adding a synergy to really strong heals to where you have to activate the synergy in order to recieve the heal from a teammate.

Iskiab

KillsAllElves wrote: »

2 years ago there was a thread similar to this one on the forums here.

One comment stood out from the rest of other comments- if i remember correctly, Alot of forum users have played call of duty and other games where there are no class healing abilities and no body was crying for self healing they just played the game... I have to agree with this.
If cyrodiil did not allow for self healing, i think pvp would be alot funner the way it is now.

Begs the question: why play MMO pvp? If a game emulates another but does everything worse and is lag ridden, why wouldn’t someone just play call of duty?

Cathexis

Keylun wrote: »

A lot less fun.
There would be less survivable situations and you will spend most of your time respawning at keeps and running backwards and forwards

Yes well this was why we had the old camps.

So you could plan assaults with your backpack with 30 full size military equiped camps. So you could teleport to the fights faster. Imo should introduce portals and bring it back, would be cool.

Zer0_CooL

There's a poll function in the thread creator window

Goregrinder

Everyone would die within seconds.

BaiterOfZergs

1.6

fred4

As someone who is used to CP, that's basically how no CP feels to me. A little bit.

I main a magblade. If you leave me with cloak, that will basically mean I have to cloak away for longer to recover. It won't be any fun at all. Getting enough healing on magblade is already a challenge these days. Can't say that I'm interested in your idea.

High health and low healing is basically what happens with some tank builds. Play becomes more strategic. You screw up with your resources or positioning and you can end up doomed for a mistake you made 30s ago. I'm not a fan of that. I like fast, reactive gameplay.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

As someone who is used to CP, that's basically how no CP feels to me. A little bit.

I main a magblade. If you leave me with cloak, that will basically mean I have to cloak away for longer to recover. It won't be any fun at all. Getting enough healing on magblade is already a challenge these days. Can't say that I'm interested in your idea.

High health and low healing is basically what happens with some tank builds. Play becomes more strategic. You screw up with your resources or positioning and you can end up doomed for a mistake you made 30s ago. I'm not a fan of that. I like fast, reactive gameplay.

I’ll second it won’t be fun.

I think people underestimate how much you can optimize damage for huge burst in this game.

I play in homicide and I can tell you, when solo players who 1vX say we’re bad and only light attack and don’t know how to burst they’re saying that because that’s all we do to take THEM down. We’re building ults to spend them on threats to the group, which gives them a weird impression of how group pvp works.

Right now in the game it is completely possible to kill groups of 20+ players in one GCD. Nerf healing that’s all the game will be, roaming bands one shotting people.

Kagukan

It would be horrible. A little too much tankiness right now but nerfing healing into the ground is not a good idea.

Davadin

Wing wrote: »

say battle spirit was changed to gut nearly all forms healing / shields / health regen / blocking etc by like 90%

but increased the amount of flat hp for being in pvp up from the ~5k bonus up to a ~20k bonus



how do you think cyro / pvp would play out if people actually did constantly die?

would it be more fun
less fun
how would it effect group play
what about solo
sieges
BG's
etc.


personally I would be willing to try it for a hot sec just to see what would happen.

in fact as I say this I wish there was a live week long campaign that tested changes like this, that they could change battle spirit effects on a weekly bases and get community feedback, just go balls to the walls with some radical changes and see how it plays for a week.

forum warriors will rejoice.


90% of population would quit within the month.

Metemsycosis

"Continual fear and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

katorga

Regardless, I fully expect them to nerf all forms of healing 47-62% next PTS.