Nerf Wardens

kaithuzar

@Gilliamtherogue @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler ,

Seriously guys.
You can't step into a BG, let alone a high MMR BG without running into 6 of them in a single 4v4v4...

Shimmering is the most OP skill in the game & has been for some time. My particular gripe is with Stamina Wardens, but mostly with shimmering. It takes almost 50% of the class archetypes out of the game; with regards to winning against them. The minor heroism allows them to slot bloodspawn & throw dawnbreakers about as often as my spammable connects, all the while taking little if any damage & having good heals & sustain to boot.

Classes need to be either difficult or easy. Builds should be one if not the primary method for determining if a class is easy or difficult to play. Warden is one of those classes that stand out with no matter how bad the player is, put them on a Warden & they will shine. Sure I can re-roll & ride the meta wave, but I would rather stop playing altogether. Please fix this game. Either make everyone a face roll class, or none. We want things to be "skill based", but as long as Warden has shimmering it's not going to be.

Oh & also add the ability to see what class someone is in the BG rankings just like how you can in the Cyrodiil rankings.

Ariades_swe

Oh here it goes again.

InaMoonlight

Rofl ... are you serious? OP... No, but nice if you know how to play them and know how to use their fairly demanding benefits, yes. Like almost any class...

Leave wardens alone, we suffered a bit, only superseded by the poor NB's... C'mon...

OG_Kaveman

Nerf sorc.

kaithuzar

InaMoonlight wrote: »

Rofl ... are you serious? OP... No, but nice if you know how to play them and know how to use their fairly demanding benefits, yes. Like almost any class...

Leave wardens alone, we suffered a bit, only superseded by the poor NB's... C'mon...

Dead serious..
Get it?
Because I died to a Warden....

idk

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Oh here it goes again.

They tagged Gilliam twice so this will happen for sure. But we all know this is a nerf sorc thread in disguise.

kaithuzar

idk wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Oh here it goes again.

They tagged Gilliam twice so this will happen for sure. But we all know this is a nerf sorc thread in disguise.

Haven’t had problems with sorcs except for targeting issues when they crutch on twilight.

I’ve seen sorcs w/o pets but I’ve yet to see a Warden w/o netch!

notvenousdrake

Enough moaning for nerfs smh

WildRaptorX

No

Masshypnosis

They are too strong, remove major fracture + breach. Instead give this debuff to templar toppling charge. That would balance the game...

Heimpai

Bad players are still bad at warden, stick with your team instead of getting mowed down by aoe while you try to 1vX

Trancestor

My warden has 16% flat dmg done just from slotting already very good skills, and 16% more dmg done from hitting 2 of those skills (minor vuln and major fract) that is wopping 32% more dmg done than some other classes. That is balanced? Lmao. That and the already really strong Stamden kit with insane burst, being one of the tankiest classes, having major mending and a free to spam purge...but yeah lets not cry about nerfs because even valid talking points are considered "crying for nerfs" now.
Instead of nerfing tho i'd probably prefer if every other class was as strong.

Shanehere

Wardens have access to many buffs, but only so much bar space. Their offensive window is lowered compared to most other classes because of how many buffs they need on their bars. Wardens are most vulnerable during the time that they are recasting their buffs, a decent player recognizes that when they see shalks and dizzy wind ups it's time to be defensive for the few seconds that warden has to completely burst you down (which can be difficult in this tank meta) before they need to completely stop their offensive pressure in order to reapply all of their buffs, which is a good couple of seconds. By now, if you are semi-competent, you have completely healed up by that burst attempt and YOU are applying pressure while he is giving you none. Passive damage in bleeds and DoTs are a strong counter to warden.

Their burst is very strong but also incredibly predictable. Most decent players know how to avoid shalks. The dizzy change in my opinion helped it a little bit because you can mix up your off-balance stuns to time it with your shalks or an onslaught and make it less predictable. Pre-dizzy change everyone knew that if shalks were triggered and you got hit with a dizzy it meant an immediate DB or onslaught to the face and that was GG, so you just had to roll through them so they missed. The timing still needs to be good, and most players know by now how to strafe out of the way or to CC the warden when they see that giant green circle around their feet.

In other words, their bursts are very one-trick and visually indicative of something to avoid. Their ridiculous buffs strengthen this burst, so if it lands, it kills you. Missing a shalk hit or a dizzy, onslaughting someone without a shalks ready for that extra damage in case they don't die could cost losing that kill from dodgeroll spam or stealth, getting you out of range of them and having to start your burst up all over again. The heroism from shimmering, if the warden uses it, grants them more attempts at their big burst. Many wardens rely on the DB stun to get their shalks to hit, so shimmering gives them more chances.

If they nerf warden buffs too much, which they will likely do if they decide the screams from the forums are loud enough for action, it will likely get to the point where the one burst combo they rely on to get any kills can no longer kill people, and they will turn into a purely support class.

The buffs are supposed to be good for them because of this.

I think it's also important to note I'm speaking about these scenarios of being a Warden vs a competent player. It's well known Wardens are absolute noob destroyers when people don't know what they're doing against them, which is why most people think they are so OP, so when they look at the class abilities it's easy to point blame. When you learn that their fights are basically a dance in positioning and timing, those buffs at the end of the day don't mean *** if they can't hit you.

I think I would rather ZOS buff classes they deem underperforming to bring them to levels of other classes rather then nerfing classes that are complained about as too powerful. The stigma behind nerf threads like these is that players who enjoy classes are afraid of their classes getting hit to the point where they have to find a completely different playstyle for it.

Bashev

I said it already but sadly the ppl want their strong builds. OP prepare for L2P noob and so on...

Moonsorrow

Could all just like wait until ZOS is done with their audit so all classes are through with it and THEN adjust things accordingly and not just more of the back and forth changes every couple months that people not like at all?

That would be great. Like seriously. Pretty please?

kaithuzar

To everyone saying:
“We don’t want nerfs, we want other classes to be buffed to the same level!”

I’ve been agreeing with you for 5+ years! I’m done with it now! Obviously this is too hard for them, therefore I’m on the nerf band wagon regarding the most OP class.

chrightt

Let’s get real. High MMR BG is often about stacking, so for the guy that says stick to your group has no freaking idea what he is talking about because wardens excel at AoE. I think wardens got some nice buffs and I don’t think anyone would argue stamden is top tier this class and magden has always been strong in group fights. They definitely have a theme of their own going with all the buffs and debuffs now, but I think the main issue still rests on some over performing skills like Netch (especially this patch). Just compare Netch to something like Templar’s focus. At least it costs 1k to cast a stam/mag returning skill that also gives your major buffs. On the other hand, it’s free to cast Netch AND you also get debuff removal on cast + once per 5s. Definitely looks like a skill that can use some nerf because it weakens wardens in a fair way. Right now wardens just get too much value too easily.

A game needs both buffs and nerfs. Calling for nerfs in the right area combined with buffs in a class’ weaker points is exactly what makes a class more diverse. A few skills being exceptionally strong is fine, but not strong to the point that it covers so many aspects (lmao extended ritual is the first thing that pops into my mind with Netch). What would be even better is a balance of both morphs when they’re not dedicated to just Magicka or just stamina. Take a look at bird of prey for example. I don’t even remember what the name of the other morph is. What’s the other morph of fossilize? BoL finally got a different identity from streak and that certainly creates variety of skill selection and build. DK’s whip also gives the player a choice between burst offense and defensive sustain.

Casul

Warden has one of the most straight forward and predictable burst combos in the game. Not too mention that in order to be strong you have to maintain 4 buffs with basically 90% uptime.

Complaining to complain.

Spartabunny08

Play a warden and quit crying. Always with the nerfs this is bs

kaithuzar

BuildMan wrote: »

Warden has one of the most straight forward and predictable burst combos in the game. Not too mention that in order to be strong you have to maintain 4 buffs with basically 90% uptime.

Complaining to complain.

1) Every class has a predictable burst combo
2) Every class has buffs they maintain
3) Anyone can jump on a Warden, spam shimmering & be just as much if not more survivable than a tank based class such as dk or even templar.
4) Stamina Warden can go around spamming the exact same combo as every other stamina class ie...
dizzying swing -> dawnbreak -> whirlwind ; & be just as if not more effective due to minor heroism, shimmering's mitigation, & netch, add beetles to it & there really isn't much to counter them; especially when you get 2 or 3 of them coordinating burst (it's more effective than 2 or 3 of any other class coordinating burst).

Iskiab

Wardens are strong yea, but so are lots of classes.

Almost rolled one but decided against it because they have too many buffs. Weird thinking, I know, but I found playing one your offensive window is smaller than other classes.

Strong yes, but wouldn’t say OP. There are very few OP things left I think. Just buff DKs a smidge, buff Nbs and Necro.

Shaloknir

I have never played warden. So im not an expert of any kind. Now I read the shimmering shield description. It sounds pretty strong. Able to absorb 14k damage, restore 800 magicka and gain minor heroism. But it doesnt say anything about duration? Is it infinite duration until one absorbs enough damage? That might be a little too good. Sorc shields, dk wings etc have like 6 sec duration.

GrigorijMalahevich

When are nerfing sorcs?

Heimpai

Shaloknir wrote: »

I have never played warden. So im not an expert of any kind. Now I read the shimmering shield description. It sounds pretty strong. Able to absorb 14k damage, restore 800 magicka and gain minor heroism. But it doesnt say anything about duration? Is it infinite duration until one absorbs enough damage? That might be a little too good. Sorc shields, dk wings etc have like 6 sec duration.

6 sec and 14k from 3 projectiles, it's rather simple to get around it.

MartiniDaniels

Wardens are strong in groups, i.e. when their burst arrives in you when you were dealing with somebody else, but in 1v1 it is easy to avoid shalks&permafrost, so this is not as simple question of nerf as it might seem..

Canned_Apples

I see more sorcs than wardens. -and I’ve never seen a 4v4v4 in days:

silentxotech

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Could all just like wait until ZOS is done with their audit so all classes are through with it and THEN adjust things accordingly and not just more of the back and forth changes every couple months that people not like at all?

That would be great. Like seriously. Pretty please?

Please don't continue to frequently change class details. I completely agree with the latter that it's becoming quite difficult to stick with something I find that works, because players will complain and ruin the nice things for others. We don't need the nerfs or any class changes ;-; (edit: when I say class changes, I mean changes to class abilities, passives and even their visuals)

If you're having trouble, perhaps just try something else instead of suggesting a change for everyone ><

Iskiab

silentxotech wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Could all just like wait until ZOS is done with their audit so all classes are through with it and THEN adjust things accordingly and not just more of the back and forth changes every couple months that people not like at all?

That would be great. Like seriously. Pretty please?

Please don't continue to frequently change class details. I completely agree with the latter that it's becoming quite difficult to stick with something I find that works, because players will complain and ruin the nice things for others. We don't need the nerfs or any class changes ;-;

If you're having trouble, perhaps just try something else instead of suggesting a change for everyone ><

Yea I agree with this. I’ve recently switched from AD to DC and I’m worried because all my characters are AD. I won’t be able to hop back and forth so easily between classes and only had space for 2 DC toons.

It’s a sad state of affairs when you can’t be confident having a main because you’re worried about nerfs.

I think Sorc, Warden and Templar have ended up relatively balanced. Small DK buff, buff NB, and call the 3 balanced classes done. Not worrying about 3 classes will hopefully allow them to work on fixing broken Necro mechanics so they aren’t reliant on the synergy and harmony.

Cirantille

What do you mean?
I kill 20 Wardens a day for 2k AP

NinchiTV

Buff sorcs, NB, Necro & DK.

Spartabunny08

No more nerfs, we need buffs. We need fun, taking power away is not how to make things fun. It should be evenly distributed into different sections of each class so that there is uniqueness in what they do and bring to the group. This is what is needed. Do not nerf anything else.