Buff defiles please.

Solariken

Assuming ZOS has healing where they want it for PvE, I would argue that Major and Minor Defile need to be buffed.

They removed these debuffs from various skills like Reverb and Incap, limiting access and uptime on targets in PvP. They also caved to forum whiners about sets like Soldier of Anguish nerfing them into uselessness.

We are in the strongest healing meta as long as I can remember, and reductions of 30% and 15% in healing received respectively are usually barely noticeable.

Now that you have to make some build sacrifices to spec into defiling in most cases, I think some adjustments are in order. Here's what I propose:

Buff Major Defile from 30% to 40%.

Buff Minor Defile from 15% to 25%.

Buff heal absorption poisons from 2000 to 2500.

Some of you might not want to hear this, but people need to die in PvP. High MMR BGs are excessively tedious ticklefights. Also I'm convinced Cyrodiil performance would improve with organized groups dying more often. We need better counterplay for healing and I think this is a good place to start.

Bonus suggestion:

Make critical resistance also reduce the crits of 3rd party healing received (same reduction as damage crits). This would create some better parity between damage and healing in PvP, where currently healing FAR outclasses damage in terms of raw effectiveness, especially when you consider that players have excellent self healing in addition to what a pure party healer can provide.

These are just one man's thoughts, I'm sure we'd all have differing design philosophies if we were at the wheel. Feel free to try to change minds.

xWarbrain

I don't often agree with any changes proposed on the forums. I don't hate this though, especially the crit resistance "kiss curse".

I hate that term and I'm mad that I just used it.

Neoauspex

Now we're talking. Instead of nerfing everything that is strong, introduce/expand/buff counters to strong things. Good suggestion.

Qbiken

Crit resistance reducing healing lmao

Solariken

Qbiken wrote: »

Crit resistance reducing healing lmao

Just 3rd party though, not self heal crits.

ChunkyCat

This thread has the Chunky Stamp of Approval ®

WreckfulAbandon

xWarbrain

Qbiken wrote: »

Crit resistance reducing healing lmao

He suggested crit resistance that you have reduces crit healing that you receive. The issue in PvP right now is all the healing received by non-healers.

It doesn't mean you can't still have DPS off heals, it would just weaken them a bit without changing any actual skills again.

PvE doesn't use crit resistance or defile. This is a suggestion that PvE won't care about because they can still kill their same NPCs with the same predictability in every fight an not be effected by this, while at the same time helping with the HoT meta.

No sweeping changes is what everyone's been hoping for. This is a step in that direction.

Qbiken

Solariken wrote: »

show previous quotes

Qbiken wrote: »

Crit resistance reducing healing lmao

Just 3rd party though, not self heal crits.

I get what you mean and I still stand by my lmao

Heatnix90

Had me at increasing defile strength but big fat lol @ every other one of your suggestions.

Luede

there is no need in buffing defile you need easy access to this ability. buffing from 30% to 40% do nothing if i cant use it

technohic

Solariken wrote: »

Assuming ZOS has healing where they want it for PvE, I would argue that Major and Minor Defile need to be buffed.

They removed these debuffs from various skills like Reverb and Incap, limiting access and uptime on targets in PvP. They also caved to forum whiners about sets like Soldier of Anguish nerfing them into uselessness.

We are in the strongest healing meta as long as I can remember, and reductions of 30% and 15% in healing received respectively are usually barely noticeable.

Now that you have to make some build sacrifices to spec into defiling in most cases, I think some adjustments are in order. Here's what I propose:

Buff Major Defile from 30% to 40%.

Buff Minor Defile from 15% to 25%.

Buff heal absorption poisons from 2000 to 2500.

Some of you might not want to hear this, but people need to die in PvP. High MMR BGs are excessively tedious ticklefights. Also I'm convinced Cyrodiil performance would improve with organized groups dying more often. We need better counterplay for healing and I think this is a good place to start.

Bonus suggestion:

Make critical resistance also reduce the crits of 3rd party healing received (same reduction as damage crits). This would create some better parity between damage and healing in PvP, where currently healing FAR outclasses damage in terms of raw effectiveness, especially when you consider that players have excellent self healing in addition to what a pure party healer can provide.

These are just one man's thoughts, I'm sure we'd all have differing design philosophies if we were at the wheel. Feel free to try to change minds.

No buff needed. Just make them more accessible and the befoul CP be it's own healing reduction rather than a percent of a percent

Solariken

1

technohic wrote: »

show previous quotes

Solariken wrote: »

Assuming ZOS has healing where they want it for PvE, I would argue that Major and Minor Defile need to be buffed.

They removed these debuffs from various skills like Reverb and Incap, limiting access and uptime on targets in PvP. They also caved to forum whiners about sets like Soldier of Anguish nerfing them into uselessness.

We are in the strongest healing meta as long as I can remember, and reductions of 30% and 15% in healing received respectively are usually barely noticeable.

Now that you have to make some build sacrifices to spec into defiling in most cases, I think some adjustments are in order. Here's what I propose:

Buff Major Defile from 30% to 40%.

Buff Minor Defile from 15% to 25%.

Buff heal absorption poisons from 2000 to 2500.

Some of you might not want to hear this, but people need to die in PvP. High MMR BGs are excessively tedious ticklefights. Also I'm convinced Cyrodiil performance would improve with organized groups dying more often. We need better counterplay for healing and I think this is a good place to start.

Bonus suggestion:

Make critical resistance also reduce the crits of 3rd party healing received (same reduction as damage crits). This would create some better parity between damage and healing in PvP, where currently healing FAR outclasses damage in terms of raw effectiveness, especially when you consider that players have excellent self healing in addition to what a pure party healer can provide.

These are just one man's thoughts, I'm sure we'd all have differing design philosophies if we were at the wheel. Feel free to try to change minds.

No buff needed. Just make them more accessible and the befoul CP be it's own healing reduction rather than a percent of a percent

Can't use the CP system; any changes need to be made with battlegrounds in mind.

MentalxHammer

I agree no buff needed except perhaps one more major defile skill for us to access.

Aedaryl

Buffing minor/major defile and call it a fix will just make classes that doesn't have access to it bad.

Nerf general healing from battlespirit, make heal reduced by 60% instead of 50% to start, then adjust if needed.

NBrookus

Most magicka toons have no access to a skill with Major Defile or a decent magicka armor set that provides it.

OG_Kaveman

Just make the calculation like this- (healing taken*healing received*healing done)*(defiles). This is not how it works, per this thread-https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484184/article-mechanics-of-defile-stacking. @TheYKcid can you please explain how the calculation looks?

Solariken

NBrookus wrote: »

Most magicka toons have no access to a skill with Major Defile or a decent magicka armor set that provides it.

Well to be fair magicka toons are primarily responsible for the absurd amount of healing flying around. Even classes without do have some access though, poisons and disease enchants are available to everyone. The problem is they aren't enough to deal with the problem.

Derra

No.

There are too many classes and specs without access to major/minor defile reliably on demand.
There are also specs and classes without access to major vitality or mending - on which healing does not feel nearly as overtuned.

The problem are the major two healing buffs alongside major protection and their easy accessability (on some classes/specs).

Before you buff the potency of defile - buff the availability.
Before you do that maybe have a look at major protection, mending and vitality

Infectious1X

Agree with the several suggestions of first increasing availability and only afterwords looking at numbers. Every class should have a spammable minor defile and access to major through an ult.

Healing needs to at least have some form of counterplay and this is the most simple and effective way of adding it while having zero affect on PvE as it is mostly a PvP debuff.

Solariken

I don't think it's a good idea to hand out spammable defile access - I prefer a design where you have to make choices and spec into debuffing. It needs to be a worthwhile effort though and the heal reductions need to feel more impactful.

mague

Solariken wrote: »

These are just one man's thoughts, I'm sure we'd all have differing design philosophies if we were at the wheel. Feel free to try to change minds.

Third party healing and on the spot healing (reducing combined spike) is the only thing that keeps you alive against organised. If you really learn it you can catch many ulti bombs. Still just an illusion of survivability. Once they figure you know how to heal you are dead. They remove you not as an opponent, but as a road blocker to disney world.

The game lacks any counter to organised and no change to the available skills is able to change this. There has to be something that allows 40 peasants with pitchforks to lock down 20 organised.

BohnT2

This idea is the maginot-line just waiting to be crushed by an even more tanky meta waiting to smack it from belgium

Nerftheforums

Solariken wrote: »

I don't think it's a good idea to hand out spammable defile access - I prefer a design where you have to make choices and spec into debuffing. It needs to be a worthwhile effort though and the heal reductions need to feel more impactful.

A worthwhile effort you say... That's why you would like to see and easily reachable 50% major defile and minor defile be transmuted into the current major? Do you seriously want to be defiled for 30+% by a *** sniper spammer?

Dude, I need whatever you are high on, I swear.

Joy_Division

This game just drifts from one pendulum to another with no direction.

Last year defiles were too strong. Now they are too weak.

Dr_Ganknstein

I agree. This way all the people crying about how we should ask for buffs instead of nerfs will be happy as well.

pieratsos

Or maybe introduce some kind of softcaps to keep the numbers in check instead of moving from the one extreme to the other and band aid fixing everything.

Ragnarock41

Yes, lets just add another checkbox to every build that wants to be viable by making defile a must have for everyone, instead of admitting that yes, healing is too strong.

Joy_Division wrote: »

This game just drifts from one pendulum to another with no direction.

Last year defiles were too strong. Now they are too weak.

Defiles are not weak, they're just non-existant. Where do I get defile? Where do I get a reliable CC? They didn't nerf these things, they outright REMOVED them.

Healing though? Oh no, nobody complains about the fact that everyone now runs around with at least 20k vigor or rapid regen, regardless of their class, and hp regen builds literally do not have counterplay other than ''just burst them''.

I'm pretty sure if not for onslaught some of these fights would go on for longer than hours.

MizoreReyes

So do we add more sources of defile, buff defile, or do both?

Solariken

MizoreReyes wrote: »

So do we add more sources of defile, buff defile, or do both?

Just buff it. Any Stam toon has access to Affliction and Cyro's and there are multiple class sources of aoe defile.

pieratsos

Solariken wrote: »

show previous quotes

MizoreReyes wrote: »

So do we add more sources of defile, buff defile, or do both?

Just buff it. Any Stam toon has access to Affliction and Cyro's and there are multiple class sources of aoe defile.

When will you learn. Buffing defiles wont make healing balanced.