Buff defiles please.

Solariken

pieratsos wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

MizoreReyes wrote: »

So do we add more sources of defile, buff defile, or do both?

Just buff it. Any Stam toon has access to Affliction and Cyro's and there are multiple class sources of aoe defile.

When will you learn. Buffing defiles wont make healing balanced.

It will if you like rock-paper-scissors elements.

Other than defile buffs the only way to deal with high healing is high DOTs which apparently ZOS didn't like. So here we are. If you have a better idea we're all ears... Your softcaps idea will never be a thing, they did away with those mechanics before Imperial City and I don't see them ever doing it again, especially since tweaking defile numbers is a thousand times easier froma development standpoint.

pieratsos

Solariken wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

MizoreReyes wrote: »

So do we add more sources of defile, buff defile, or do both?

Just buff it. Any Stam toon has access to Affliction and Cyro's and there are multiple class sources of aoe defile.

When will you learn. Buffing defiles wont make healing balanced.

It will if you like rock-paper-scissors elements.

Other than defile buffs the only way to deal with high healing is high DOTs which apparently ZOS didn't like. So here we are. If you have a better idea we're all ears... Your softcaps idea will never be a thing, they did away with those mechanics before Imperial City and I don't see them ever doing it again, especially since tweaking defile numbers is a thousand times easier froma development standpoint.

I know they won't implement softcaps because frankly they don't even understand their own game and they would rather try to balance what can't be balanced with their band aid fixes but just because they won't bring back softcaps it doesn't mean that I will advocate for a horrible solution like buffing defiles.

Here is what you and prety much half of the people advocating for defiles don't understand. Defile is not the counter to extreme healing. It's the counter to heals in general and there is a big difference between the 2. It's the same as bleeds and oblivion dmg. They ultimately failed because they were not actually countering tanks like they should but everyone else as well and they were actually more effective against light/medium and low health builds which is the exact opposite of how it should work. Tanks and high health builds were the only builds capable of going up against bleeds and oblivion dmg even tho they were supposed to be countered by that. Defiles and healing is the same story all over again.

If anything, extreme healing builds are the only builds capable of fighting defiles. Everyone else without extreme healing is essentially screwed. Extreme healing may not be fun but not being able to heal for **** is even worse.

Your solution, limits build diversity in the form of using two dumb sets just for the sake of being capable to fight extreme healing, it doesn't balance healing cause everyone not having access to defiles is still prety much left in the dirt and those who don't really have extreme healing are also screwed cause they won't heal for **** against defiles.

You want to address extreme healing then address that and what's causing it. Defiles won't make it better. They make it worse. People will still complain about extreme healing cause they don't have access to defiles and people without extreme healing will complain about defiles being OP. And rightfully so.

Aedaryl

pieratsos wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

MizoreReyes wrote: »

So do we add more sources of defile, buff defile, or do both?

Just buff it. Any Stam toon has access to Affliction and Cyro's and there are multiple class sources of aoe defile.

When will you learn. Buffing defiles wont make healing balanced.

It will if you like rock-paper-scissors elements.

Other than defile buffs the only way to deal with high healing is high DOTs which apparently ZOS didn't like. So here we are. If you have a better idea we're all ears... Your softcaps idea will never be a thing, they did away with those mechanics before Imperial City and I don't see them ever doing it again, especially since tweaking defile numbers is a thousand times easier froma development standpoint.

I know they won't implement softcaps because frankly they don't even understand their own game and they would rather try to balance what can't be balanced with their band aid fixes but just because they won't bring back softcaps it doesn't mean that I will advocate for a horrible solution like buffing defiles.

Here is what you and prety much half of the people advocating for defiles don't understand. Defile is not the counter to extreme healing. It's the counter to heals in general and there is a big difference between the 2. It's the same as bleeds and oblivion dmg. They ultimately failed because they were not actually countering tanks like they should but everyone else as well and they were actually more effective against light/medium and low health builds which is the exact opposite of how it should work. Tanks and high health builds were the only builds capable of going up against bleeds and oblivion dmg even tho they were supposed to be countered by that. Defiles and healing is the same story all over again.

If anything, extreme healing builds are the only builds capable of fighting defiles. Everyone else without extreme healing is essentially screwed. Extreme healing may not be fun but not being able to heal for **** is even worse.

Your solution, limits build diversity in the form of using two dumb sets just for the sake of being capable to fight extreme healing, it doesn't balance healing cause everyone not having access to defiles is still prety much left in the dirt and those who don't really have extreme healing are also screwed cause they won't heal for **** against defiles.

You want to address extreme healing then address that and what's causing it. Defiles won't make it better. They make it worse. People will still complain about extreme healing cause they don't have access to defiles and people without extreme healing will complain about defiles being OP. And rightfully so.

This.

The real problem with extreme healing is the heal modifier domes have access to.

You need to either make a general healing Nerf from battlespirit or adjust the healing modifier some classes have.

Buffing defile will make classes that doesn't have access to it BAD and also make classes that doesn't have good healing Bad while shifting the meta around having both huge healing + huge defile on the same build.

Remember the old reverbashing bashtard that was the number 1 build because it combined best defense + best offense + defile in the same boat.

Koensol

Aedaryl wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

MizoreReyes wrote: »

So do we add more sources of defile, buff defile, or do both?

Just buff it. Any Stam toon has access to Affliction and Cyro's and there are multiple class sources of aoe defile.

When will you learn. Buffing defiles wont make healing balanced.

It will if you like rock-paper-scissors elements.

Other than defile buffs the only way to deal with high healing is high DOTs which apparently ZOS didn't like. So here we are. If you have a better idea we're all ears... Your softcaps idea will never be a thing, they did away with those mechanics before Imperial City and I don't see them ever doing it again, especially since tweaking defile numbers is a thousand times easier froma development standpoint.

I know they won't implement softcaps because frankly they don't even understand their own game and they would rather try to balance what can't be balanced with their band aid fixes but just because they won't bring back softcaps it doesn't mean that I will advocate for a horrible solution like buffing defiles.

Here is what you and prety much half of the people advocating for defiles don't understand. Defile is not the counter to extreme healing. It's the counter to heals in general and there is a big difference between the 2. It's the same as bleeds and oblivion dmg. They ultimately failed because they were not actually countering tanks like they should but everyone else as well and they were actually more effective against light/medium and low health builds which is the exact opposite of how it should work. Tanks and high health builds were the only builds capable of going up against bleeds and oblivion dmg even tho they were supposed to be countered by that. Defiles and healing is the same story all over again.

If anything, extreme healing builds are the only builds capable of fighting defiles. Everyone else without extreme healing is essentially screwed. Extreme healing may not be fun but not being able to heal for **** is even worse.

Your solution, limits build diversity in the form of using two dumb sets just for the sake of being capable to fight extreme healing, it doesn't balance healing cause everyone not having access to defiles is still prety much left in the dirt and those who don't really have extreme healing are also screwed cause they won't heal for **** against defiles.

You want to address extreme healing then address that and what's causing it. Defiles won't make it better. They make it worse. People will still complain about extreme healing cause they don't have access to defiles and people without extreme healing will complain about defiles being OP. And rightfully so.

This.

The real problem with extreme healing is the heal modifier domes have access to.

You need to either make a general healing Nerf from battlespirit or adjust the healing modifier some classes have.

Buffing defile will make classes that doesn't have access to it BAD and also make classes that doesn't have good healing Bad while shifting the meta around having both huge healing + huge defile on the same build.

Remember the old reverbashing bashtard that was the number 1 build because it combined best defense + best offense + defile in the same boat.

Never thought I'd agree with Aedaryl, but there we have it. 100% agreed. Please don't bring spammable defiles like reverb back.

WreckfulAbandon

One good suggestion I saw somewhere else was removing crit heals from Elfborn/Precise Strikes in CP tree since there isn't an offsetting debuff star for CP crit heals.

Solariken

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

One good suggestion I saw somewhere else was removing crit heals from Elfborn/Precise Strikes in CP tree since there isn't an offsetting debuff star for CP crit heals.

Once again the problem needs to be solved outside of the CP system because battlegrounds.

WreckfulAbandon

Some non-CP related ideas then:

Major Vitality should be completely removed from the game. Just completely gone. It's always been a stupid buff that allows stupid things.

Aside from that they should make Rapid Regen self only. It heals too much honestly (esp if you're keeping a friend alive with it) and it's stupid relying on a "smart" heal that might hit an ally so it would also double as a quality of life change.

Battle Spirit could be modified to prevent or reduce crit heals.

The last one would be controversial and is just a thought, not a suggestion.

Kartalin

What if healing wasn’t connected to damage, like it would be based on the relevant stat pool and crit chance but not the damage or crit damage stats?

Just thinking out loud kinda.

Davadin

can I have Fighter Guild's Turn Evil skill to not only Fear, but apply Major Minor Defile?

Tommy_The_Gun

This is hilarious. People wanted to nerf (were calling for nerfs) those things that were direct counter to healers & tanks in PvP and now they are like: Healing is too strong in PvP and we have nasty tank meta. We don't have counter to those...

Well... it was pretty obvious... I mean what will happen. Werewolf, bleed dmg mechanics, oblivion dmg, Defiles etc. ... it all got nerfed super hard... because people wanted this right ?

And I think that perfectly sums up what a short-sighted (this killed me, it is op, nerf !) blind approach ends like. And I wont gonna lie, It pains me to say this, but I think the only way to stop this kind of "call for nerfs" approach is so the people who are advocating those "nerf approach" will got the "taste of their own medicine" so to speak. I know it sound brutal, but I think there is no other way around this.

ThePhantomThorn

we need defiles and stuns on loads of burst skills.
like frags and incap. this way they are stunned in your burst and not before, so you can kill before they can heal up, and reduce their healing.

Hexquisite

It is not just healing, but the sets people are wearing.

I have been running a defile build, and it is not because people have overtuned healing-- it is because there are people in CP land who don't even sppear to take damage, but our group still has to eventually take down. My group has excellent burst DPS, as well as tactics--like we interupt and CC healers and destroy them--but there are those tonky tanks that came back this patch, who are good enough players to have theory crafted around both their class skills and passives, and it's synergy with certain sets---we have had to work up dif strategies to deal with these tonks, but it has also been fun doing something different.

*Not naming sets/classes because I don't advocate for them getting nerfed.

juhislihis19

Joy_Division wrote: »

Last year defiles were too strong. Now they are too weak.

Isn't that ZOS' way of doing things? Ie. DoTs were too strong, now they are too weak..

UppGRAYxDD

Or they could just remove the extra 5k health from battle spirit... I agree, Time to Kill has been growing from patch to patch...

Luede

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Or they could just remove the extra 5k health from battle spirit... I agree, Time to Kill has been growing from patch to patch...

i bet u play CP PVP...

Kel

Yes.
I'm down for a defile buff...

The most fun I've had in PvP is when defile was good, bleed damage was amazing, and oblivion damage was hitting hard.

Players DIED. You remember, sort of the point of PvP, right?

Now we have unkillable tanks and healers, and TTK has gone way up.

Bring death back to PvP, instead of fights lasting forever because no one can kill anything.

Cathexis

Wow softcaps, haven't thought about that in a while. Remember softcaps? Such a great time period for this game.

SilverPaws

The most horrible suggestion I heard on the forums in a while.

ThePhantomThorn

We need defiles to stop the insane healing.
Then we can get bleeds to be changed back.
And then oblivion damage.

Ariades_swe

No.
Nerf passive mitigation instead.