Should gap closers stun

SoixanteNeuf

I'm fine with gap closers that stun like Toppling charge, as long as they reimplement Stampede snare (1-2 secs) so there will be some counterplay to Magsorcs streaking 100m away and still being able to sprint with major exp via Lightning form. Other well-built mag/stam classes usually have Race Against Time/Shuffle to counter snares, so it'll be potentially balanced.

It'll also "normalize" gap closing utility because Toppling charge is clearly overperforming in relation to other gap closers, so the utility from other gap closers should probably be buffed.

Sanguinor2

sproattt wrote: »

Biggest issue with Leap is being on the receiving end of one during horrible PvP performance. Roll dodge away still catches you puts you 50 ft in the air and AND the cc animation glitches as you cc break 50 ft in the air to be back on the ground in the same cc. As for blocking it, half the time it works half the time your breaking free whilst holding block either in the air 50 feet as mentioned earlier or... When you shade away and the leap stuns you at your destination only to transport you back to the DKs leap position in the same stun.

Block and roll dodge only work when the PvP performance is stable or playable.

Why certain ults have cast times where others dont is what I can't understand. Why gap closers stun set off balance where as others don't even work half the time( Ambush right now is weird and clunky since they changed it to a 10s duration of Min Vul) trying to ambush someone who's uphill or somewhat above you doesn't work, you hear the skill being activated however doesn't adjust to targets destination may be server related as above.

If you are putting cast times on ults adjust it across the board. Giving access to resources, shields and big damage STUN cheap no cast time Ult from leap, or an AOE burning light proccing Aedric Spear ult has to be on the same playing field.

Roll dodge isnt supposed to work against leap at all unless that recently changed?

technohic

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

sproattt wrote: »

Biggest issue with Leap is being on the receiving end of one during horrible PvP performance. Roll dodge away still catches you puts you 50 ft in the air and AND the cc animation glitches as you cc break 50 ft in the air to be back on the ground in the same cc. As for blocking it, half the time it works half the time your breaking free whilst holding block either in the air 50 feet as mentioned earlier or... When you shade away and the leap stuns you at your destination only to transport you back to the DKs leap position in the same stun.

Block and roll dodge only work when the PvP performance is stable or playable.

Why certain ults have cast times where others dont is what I can't understand. Why gap closers stun set off balance where as others don't even work half the time( Ambush right now is weird and clunky since they changed it to a 10s duration of Min Vul) trying to ambush someone who's uphill or somewhat above you doesn't work, you hear the skill being activated however doesn't adjust to targets destination may be server related as above.

If you are putting cast times on ults adjust it across the board. Giving access to resources, shields and big damage STUN cheap no cast time Ult from leap, or an AOE burning light proccing Aedric Spear ult has to be on the same playing field.

Roll dodge isnt supposed to work against leap at all unless that recently changed?

It doesnt dodge it, but I think you can get out of the area of impact doing it

Sanguinor2

technohic wrote: »

Roll dodge isnt supposed to work against leap at all unless that recently changed?

It doesnt dodge it, but I think you can get out of the area of impact doing it [/quote]

Yeah you can get out of the area, which isnt intended, but has been possible since years so prob never gonna Change but w/e.

Chilly-McFreeze

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Roll dodge isnt supposed to work against leap at all unless that recently changed?

It doesnt dodge it, but I think you can get out of the area of impact doing it

Yeah you can get out of the area, which isnt intended, but has been possible since years so prob never gonna Change but w/e.
[/quote]

Why isn't it intended to leave a certain area via dodge?

Royaji

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Why isn't it intended to leave a certain area via dodge?

Because dodge does not actually change your position until it's over?

relentless_turnip

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

So you see it coming from 30 meters away yet can't press your right mouse button in that time frame and you ask for a nerf in return.Welcome to the forums, the right place for you to find likeminded individuals !

This is the third time this week someone implies take flight needs a nerf. Forums and their high intelligence is at work , if they say leap overperforms, then leap definitely overperforms. How dare those Dks kill you in PvP? Its completely unacceptable, my sincere apologies as a Dk main.

I completely agree with this guy!!!
It can be blocked or dodged, if you do neither it is going to hurt...

It isn't just a gap closer it is an ultimate!!! like many other ultimates that do something other than just damage...
Onslaught? taking resistance to 0?
How about an unblockable undodgeable meteor that does twice the damage?

Ultimates are meant to be.... what's the word ultimate?

Ask for buffs not nerfs...

Solariken

I'm not looking forward to any more nerfs, but I do find it odd that Incap got nerfed to the ground when Leap was always better in almost every way.

phoenixkungfu

I love discussions, but Unfortunately somehow this post is getting off topic. I will definitely make some difference post once this topic has died down some. As a result I will only answer questions on topic

Xvorg

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I want game balance in the form of universal combo routes. But most of all I would like to see in pvp as a meta stuns control by a direct dedicated ability that primarily function as a meta stun skill. Once again it's my belief that gap closer should never stun.

Balance =/= homogenization

Balance = 1k of feathers = 1K of lead
Homogenization= 1k of feathers = 1 k of feathers

You are advocating for the later.

Xvorg

juhislihis19 wrote: »

Toppling Charge and Leap shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence. Other one is instant cast, other one is an ultimate, takes about 30 seconds to get it up?

I think this whole thread showcases extreme bias towards their main classes. Toppling Charge and an ultimate is too much but Streak isn't?

As for OP, yes, you are asking for nerfs. This is a nerf thread in every way except in name. Just hiding that behind the term "balance gameplay".

And can you eloborate why Streak is okay when an ultimate and Toppling aren't? It's a gap closer, which stuns AND deals damage.

I believe I am wasting my time here because th usual forum-bias is extremely thick here.

Just to add that Streak not only is a gap closer + stun skill, it also has an AoE, and it doesn't need a target to work, which makes it an excellent counter to cloak. None of the other skills mentioned here can do that.

Streak base cost, 3666. Toppling base cost 3510. little more than 150 more magicka and it can counter cloak spammers.

This is not a balance thread... it is just ignorance at its best.

Iskiab

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Switch it to offbalance imo. Imo CC is kinda crazy in this game as is so I'm kinda biased

This is moreso the issue. Stuns should not be cheaper to use then break free. Stuns should be used strategically and not spammed.

Things would be fine if break free cost came down from 5k to 2k base.

This is why everyone rotates what the OP stun of the patch is to complain about... but complain they always will.

Reach -> dizzy -> toppling... it will go on and on until the root cause is addressed.

Bullseyebudx

Iskiab wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Switch it to offbalance imo. Imo CC is kinda crazy in this game as is so I'm kinda biased

This is moreso the issue. Stuns should not be cheaper to use then break free. Stuns should be used strategically and not spammed.

Things would be fine if break free cost came down from 5k to 2k base.

This is why everyone rotates what the OP stun of the patch is to complain about... but complain they always will.

Reach -> dizzy -> toppling... it will go on and on until the root cause is addressed.

I’ve made posts about CCs and break free before but all the screechers come out to post this is L2P issue so be careful.

It’s really a fundamental resource advantage which I’ve said before but your example of the cost of stuns vs break free should be clear enough for anyone to understand.

It pops up all the time in the forums and people just deny it; L2P noob lul, get good lul.

Just focusing on CCs and break free alone would solve so many issues with this game.

NBrookus

Iskiab wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Switch it to offbalance imo. Imo CC is kinda crazy in this game as is so I'm kinda biased

This is moreso the issue. Stuns should not be cheaper to use then break free. Stuns should be used strategically and not spammed.

Things would be fine if break free cost came down from 5k to 2k base.

This is why everyone rotates what the OP stun of the patch is to complain about... but complain they always will.

Reach -> dizzy -> toppling... it will go on and on until the root cause is addressed.

Ultimately I agree. The sheer quantity of CC in the game, and the required delay and resources to deal with it means spamming CCs is far too effective, especially ranged CCs. CC immunity needs to last longer or CCs need to be more rare and expensive.

Roots and snares have the same problem. Immunity is realistically non-existent when you spend 1 GCD to get immunity for 1 second.

They can't be fixed separately, they have to be fixed together. There's a reason why every bomb group runs a sorc streaker ahead of the pack and at least one bombard spammer behind.

Iskiab

NBrookus wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Switch it to offbalance imo. Imo CC is kinda crazy in this game as is so I'm kinda biased

This is moreso the issue. Stuns should not be cheaper to use then break free. Stuns should be used strategically and not spammed.

Things would be fine if break free cost came down from 5k to 2k base.

This is why everyone rotates what the OP stun of the patch is to complain about... but complain they always will.

Reach -> dizzy -> toppling... it will go on and on until the root cause is addressed.

Ultimately I agree. The sheer quantity of CC in the game, and the required delay and resources to deal with it means spamming CCs is far too effective, especially ranged CCs. CC immunity needs to last longer or CCs need to be more rare and expensive.

Roots and snares have the same problem. Immunity is realistically non-existent when you spend 1 GCD to get immunity for 1 second.

They can't be fixed separately, they have to be fixed together. There's a reason why every bomb group runs a sorc streaker ahead of the pack and at least one bombard spammer behind.

Yea, or there are also premades that abuse the heck out of cc immunity not working properly. It applies - after - you successfully break free, so they’ll all lead with a stun which breaks break free so you never get the immunity.

I play mag but noticed this a lot leveling up my new toon because I had inflated stats. Once I broke free 3 times back to back - burning 16k stamina - and was still stunned right before I died.

I don’t think stuns are the issue per say, just a buggy break free. If they made it so CC immunity applied on being CC’d instead of after break free activates, plus reduce the cost of break free, PvP in ESO would be a completely different and better experience.

Iskiab

Bullseyebudx wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Switch it to offbalance imo. Imo CC is kinda crazy in this game as is so I'm kinda biased

This is moreso the issue. Stuns should not be cheaper to use then break free. Stuns should be used strategically and not spammed.

Things would be fine if break free cost came down from 5k to 2k base.

This is why everyone rotates what the OP stun of the patch is to complain about... but complain they always will.

Reach -> dizzy -> toppling... it will go on and on until the root cause is addressed.

I’ve made posts about CCs and break free before but all the screechers come out to post this is L2P issue so be careful.

It’s really a fundamental resource advantage which I’ve said before but your example of the cost of stuns vs break free should be clear enough for anyone to understand.

It pops up all the time in the forums and people just deny it; L2P noob lul, get good lul.

Just focusing on CCs and break free alone would solve so many issues with this game.

You probably posted while reach was a stun and Sorcs were on top, or when dizzy stunned. If you haven’t noticed most forum goers are sorcs or stam.

If they have an issue or weakness you’ll hear about it fast, or you’ll get a lot of opinions favouring whatever advantage they have at the time.

phoenixkungfu

I notice sorc bolt escape has come up alot during this topic. It is my belief that bolt escape is in a gray area. It can be use to close the distance however it is without out a doubt optimize as a getaway tool. It is my belief that the dev's intention was this because the streak reward is in contact in the the first animation. There is no damage in the ending animations. I believe the morph of bolt escape. Is as it applys to escape. Bolt escape morph give amazing and balance choice. Stun on contact with streak or maximize your chances of getting away with ball of lightning. To further drive home my point of view. I believe sorcerer burst as counter play is balance in terms of delay timer. A sorcerer burst in most combo is relaying on a time burst around curse. The same can't be said about gap closers that stun and the attacker is positive on a attack with the gap closer doing damage. Once again it is my belief that gap closer should never stun.

NyassaV

I understand wanting to nerf toppling charge (though it isn't why templars are annoying). But Leap is an Ultimate and is fine how it is.

Iskiab

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I notice sorc bolt escape has come up alot during this topic. It is my belief that bolt escape is in a gray area. It can be use to close the distance however it is without out a doubt optimize as a getaway tool. It is my belief that the dev's intention was this because the streak reward is in contact in the the first animation. There is no damage in the ending animations. I believe the morph of bolt escape. Is as it applys to escape. Bolt escape morph give amazing and balance choice. Stun on contact with streak or maximize your chances of getting away with ball of lightning. To further drive home my point of view. I believe sorcerer burst as counter play is balance in terms of delay timer. A sorcerer burst in most combo is relaying on a time burst around curse. The same can't be said about gap closers that stun and the attacker is positive on a attack with the gap closer doing damage. Once again it is my belief that gap closer should never stun.

I know what you mean about the intent, but I still think projectile absorptions are a dumb mechanic.

It’s too much of a feast or famine mechanic. Like Wardens with shimmering shield, they’re completely immune to bowtards and they actually help the Wardens build ultimate, relatively the same against magblades.

It’s one of the reasons Templars are strong this patch. No need for using any projectiles where lots of classes crutch on absorptions for their defense. I still see DKs hit wings or Wardens use shimmering against me as a magplar... probably the ones who think Templars are OP.

DKs should also be the projectile absorbers. The original intent I understood it is to force players into melee, why it’s on a sorc with streak is beyond me.

GhostofDatthaw

I agree that regular skills that are gap closers should not stun, zos has nerfed things in the past because they "do too much" and if a gap closing stun is not "doing too much" then idk what is.

The one exception is leap should never be changed. It's an ultimate ffs, let it be cool.

Edit. I am actually conflicted with my first remark. .. I have bashed at zos for making skills bland and taking things away.... I am nothing better than a hypocrite with that statement... I retract it.

phoenixkungfu

When I first posted. My goal in this post was not to nerf a class but to have a discussion about balance gameplay. There is a major difference in my eye's. It is my belief that gap closer should never stun. Toppling charge and dk leap simply breaks this belief in every way without any gray areas.
My belief that gap closer should never stun. Are based on fundamentals of balance gameplay of counter play to the defender.

A gap closer that stun gives:
power position(by closing the distance)
Positive frames( plus stun) aka more interactive defender burst.
Positive frames( by not doing the action of a second stun yes that's two different positive actions)
Focus gameplay of stam drain on a positive move.( yes sometime it best to take the hit as a defender to bait and create offense. During a pro combo attempt)
Bar SPACE advantage.( why slot a move that stun if your gap closer provides it)
Gameplay the reward poor spacing.( if your in melee range why does you gap closer work)
A unbalance high reward move( the priority of this move shifts from distance to close distances into cc stun. Creating reward to spam the move no mater the situation.

And Unfortunately A MOVE, that I call the get out of jail free card. Which completely breaks the gameplay. THIS IS BY FAR A POINT THAT I DISAGREE WITH THE MOST.

OFFENSE that is created during moments that should be DEFENSE:
When attacking a opponent that have 1 of these game breaking moves. a dk or templar should be using a wide array of moves to defend or create a neutral to go on the offensive. Instead you can steal a opponent turn during a combo attempt by using one of these overload moves and have advantage. With little effort or set up.
The key word is set up. I'm a a believer that gameplay should require a GAMEPLAN that very class to class. With moves that are beware of a turn steal during combo but at a gap closer distance plus all of the points list is why I believe this is extremely game breaking in my opinion. This is not a question of class nerfs but a question of gameplay balance.

Which is why I believe gap closer should never stun.

Iskiab

Shield charge has the exact same mechanic.

jcm2606

The problem is, you haven't actually played with the skills you're complaining about, and you're not listening to those who have.

Your complaints are perfectly valid for something like Toppling Charge -- though I feel that's part of the skill's identity and so we should be careful when discussing it -- but they're not valid at all for leap. Let's look at every point you brought up, in terms of leap:

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

power position(by closing the distance)

Which is offset by the removal of a combo opportunity. DK is a melee class that relies on comboing with their ultimate to close kills, because they don't have the burst potential without their ultimate. By using it to get into melee range, you're giving up that burst potential, and so forcing yourself to wait until another leap comes around, which isn't quick.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Positive frames( plus stun) aka more interactive defender burst.

The above is still true here (offset by the removal of a combo opportunity), though I won't repeat myself. I will say, though, that this "positive frame" is hugely dependent on where the DK was to begin with. If you use it at range, you're intentionally coming into your opponent's space, on a class that doesn't have many good escape tools. If you use it in melee range, then sure, you have a "positive frame", but the whole gap closer argument is bust, since you didn't use it as a gap closer, didn't you?

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Positive frames( by not doing the action of a second stun yes that's two different positive actions)

Again, offset by the removal of a combo opportunity. You're trading that second skill cast for having to stall, to build another leap back up.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Focus gameplay of stam drain on a positive move.( yes sometime it best to take the hit as a defender to bait and create offense. During a pro combo attempt)

What do you mean here? If you meant you're forcing your opponent to waste stam on a break free, with a skill that rewards you with an opening, then isn't this the same with every other stun/root/snare? The only difference being, this also gets you to your opponent in the same skill cast, which, as we've discussed, removes a combo opportunity. (You see how this is a core problem with DK, now, don't you?)

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Bar SPACE advantage.( why slot a move that stun if your gap closer provides it)

If you want a gap closer, you'd still slot one that doesn't sabotage your offense. I don't run a gap closer in PvP, due to the tight bar space (as it should be, you should have to make hard choices in what skills you slot), but the amount of times I've used leap as a gap closer is very low, because I'm saving it for a combo, or in case I need resources in a pinch.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Gameplay the reward poor spacing.( if your in melee range why does you gap closer work)

1. You're basically saying that leap shouldn't work in melee range, even though it's not a traditional gap closer? That's just told me you haven't played DK at all.

2. What's the advantage of using a gap closer in melee range? Nothing. So why is this an issue?

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

A unbalance high reward move( the priority of this move shifts from distance to close distances into cc stun. Creating reward to spam the move no mater the situation.

1. You can't spam leap. It's an ultimate.

2. Every ultimate is "an unbalanced high reward move", because that's what they're designed as.

Radial Sweep deals a high amount of burst to targets in front of you, a good amount to other targets around you, and has a pulsing AoE that hits like a truck.

Incap deals a high amount of burst, and offers 20% additional damage done to that target.

Overload causes your light/heavy attacks to deal multiple times their base damage, significantly buffing your weaves.

Permafrost offers a moderate AoE DoT that applies a 70% snare and chills enemies, while also applying Major Protection to all nearby allies for the duration.

The Necro Colossus deals a high amount of damage in 3 separate attacks, while also applying Major Vulnerability to enemies hit, increasing all damage done to them by 30%.

DBoS deals a good amount of burst in a cone, while also applying a heavy DoT to and stunning any targets caught in the cone.

Onslaught deals a monstrous amount of burst that ignores all resists, while also giving those resists back as penetration, basically giving you 100% pen for 5 seconds.

Ballista applies an extremely heavy DoT that ticks independently from you, so you can layer all your other damage on top of the Ballista DoT, for an insane amount of pressure.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

OFFENSE that is created during moments that should be DEFENSE

What about "gap closer" or "stun" says defense to you, though? To me, they're offensive.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I'm a a believer that gameplay should require a GAMEPLAN that very class to class.

Except, DK does require a game plan. You score kills by using a combo such as:

Any 3x Ardent Flame skills -> Fossilize -> Leap -> Molten Whip

Or:

Engulfing -> Embers -> Fossilize -> Flame Lash -> Leap -> Power Lash

Leap must be in there, since you don't have enough burst without it, and since everything else is melee range (except chains, if you use them, though, as I said, I don't), you can't afford to use leap as your gap closer.

If I need to get to somebody, I use RaT and run there. The only time I'll use leap is if I need to get the *** out of dodge, but I'm giving up my combo by doing so.

This is what you're not understanding, as it doesn't seem like you've actually played DK before. Nobody uses leap as an actual gap closer, everybody uses it as basically a more bursty version of DBoS, on both magDK and stamDK. Removing the stun is not going to bring balance to the skill, because the skill wasn't even unbalanced in the way you think it is to begin with.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

This is not a question of class nerfs but a question of gameplay balance.

Saying something isn't a nerf, doesn't make it so. You're advocating for the removal of the stun off of two class-specific skills. You're advocating for nerfs to both classes.

jcm2606

If you don't get it by now, I don't think you'll get it at all until you actually sink some time into DK. Maybe jump off your petsorc for a bit, start a DK, and see how DK plays, before judging it.

phoenixkungfu

jcm2606 wrote: »

If you don't get it by now, I don't think you'll get it at all until you actually sink some time into DK. Maybe jump off your petsorc for a bit, start a DK, and see how DK plays, before judging it.

I have 27days on a dk. I understand how things work.i strongly disagree with alot of things you said the main point being that dks dont use there ultimate as gap closer primarily. As a 247 day pet sorcerer. I can give you 1 fact to be true most to all dks that kill me start with leap. I will even say 90 to 95% of all deaths start with leap. It disregard any and all keep away game. as gap closer disregard for any and all gameplay mechanics of situation that apply to health bar. IT IS SPAM AS A ULTIMATE. Leap is without a doubt on a dk use at cost more then any ultimate in the game. The fact is due to the overload nature of this gap closer. There is never a situation where this ultimate is not in a positive situation. Upon use. This skill carry alot of dk gameplay for most user because of its overload nature. Which in return allows bar set up on being more tanky instead of using a gap closer. The stun, distance, aoe, and helping hand passive in providing way more then just a hand. But more importantly it stuns as a gap closer.

It is my belief that gap closer should never stun.

juhislihis19

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

If you don't get it by now, I don't think you'll get it at all until you actually sink some time into DK. Maybe jump off your petsorc for a bit, start a DK, and see how DK plays, before judging it.

This skill carry alot of dk gameplay for most user because of its overload nature.

So you admit because you die of Leap, you want it nerfed?

Forget the gap closing argument. Only tools use an ultimate for gap closing, because it's extremely unreliable. Do you really want spend ultimate on maybe hitting someone from 20 meters way? Especially when it's so easy to block? Tell me, how many DK's you actually see using Leap for gap closing?

And again, you show extreme bias for Sorcerer stating how Bolt Escape is "in the gray area". You say:

(about Bolt Escape): "It can be use to close the distance however it is without out a doubt optimize as a getaway tool"

Well Leap can be used as to close the distance, however without a doubt it's optimized to deal damage. Secondary effect is stun. So why is Leap not in the gray area? Streak can be used as gap closing, a get-away tool, unblockable stun, deals damage AND is spammable every 6 second.

And no one really cared about Leap until they started giving other ultimates cast times.

Note: I got every stam class and I play all of them. I love using Streak on stamina Sorcerer, not asking to nerf Bolt Escape.

phoenixkungfu

juhislihis19 wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

If you don't get it by now, I don't think you'll get it at all until you actually sink some time into DK. Maybe jump off your petsorc for a bit, start a DK, and see how DK plays, before judging it.

This skill carry alot of dk gameplay for most user because of its overload nature.

So you admit because you die of Leap, you want it nerfed?

Forget the gap closing argument. Only tools use an ultimate for gap closing, because it's extremely unreliable. Do you really want spend ultimate on maybe hitting someone from 20 meters way? Especially when it's so easy to block? Tell me, how many DK's you actually see using Leap for gap closing?

And again, you show extreme bias for Sorcerer stating how Bolt Escape is "in the gray area". You say:

(about Bolt Escape): "It can be use to close the distance however it is without out a doubt optimize as a getaway tool"

Well Leap can be used as to close the distance, however without a doubt it's optimized to deal damage. Secondary effect is stun. So why is Leap not in the gray area? Streak can be used as gap closing, a get-away tool, unblockable stun, deals damage AND is spammable every 6 second.

And no one really cared about Leap until they started giving other ultimates cast times.

Note: I got every stam class and I play all of them. I love using Streak on stamina Sorcerer, not asking to nerf Bolt Escape.

I disagree and fell to see your logic other then to base a arguement base on saying the opposite of my point of view. On topic of the post. To say the dk leap isn't optimize as a gap closer is extremely wrong. The ultimate closes the distance depending on the morph at over 28 meter. This is the farest reaching gap closer in the game. It seem to some the term "gap closer" escape some in terms of definition so gap closer is define as a move that closes the distance. This ultimate is optimize because of the many effects it provides. Because I'm not calling for class nerf I not even going to go over the many effects dk leap provides. The point and topic of this post is about should gap closers stun. Which is why this is about gameplay balance and not class utility aka (class nerfs)
Once again it is my opinion that gap closer should never stun.

Xvorg

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

If you don't get it by now, I don't think you'll get it at all until you actually sink some time into DK. Maybe jump off your petsorc for a bit, start a DK, and see how DK plays, before judging it.

I have 27days on a dk. I understand how things work.i strongly disagree with alot of things you said the main point being that dks dont use there ultimate as gap closer primarily. As a 247 day pet sorcerer. I can give you 1 fact to be true most to all dks that kill me start with leap. I will even say 90 to 95% of all deaths start with leap. It disregard any and all keep away game. as gap closer disregard for any and all gameplay mechanics of situation that apply to health bar. IT IS SPAM AS A ULTIMATE. Leap is without a doubt on a dk use at cost more then any ultimate in the game. The fact is due to the overload nature of this gap closer. There is never a situation where this ultimate is not in a positive situation. Upon use. This skill carry alot of dk gameplay for most user because of its overload nature. Which in return allows bar set up on being more tanky instead of using a gap closer. The stun, distance, aoe, and helping hand passive in providing way more then just a hand. But more importantly it stuns as a gap closer.

It is my belief that gap closer should never stun.

That's a L2P issue, sorry.

And what's worst, do you really believe that nerfing Leap will improve your performance?

Leap must stun, in the same way DBoS stuns on an area. Different is the story of Incap + stun since it actually stunned on a class that uses cloak. But even with that, nobody that knows how to play this game will ever say that the solution was a nerf to Incap stun.

Regarding spamming a gap closer, I really want to show you this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XrQ4Cr8qvg

That's spamming a gapcloser. Have you ever seen a DK doing that with leap?

phoenixkungfu

Xvorg wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

If you don't get it by now, I don't think you'll get it at all until you actually sink some time into DK. Maybe jump off your petsorc for a bit, start a DK, and see how DK plays, before judging it.

I have 27days on a dk. I understand how things work.i strongly disagree with alot of things you said the main point being that dks dont use there ultimate as gap closer primarily. As a 247 day pet sorcerer. I can give you 1 fact to be true most to all dks that kill me start with leap. I will even say 90 to 95% of all deaths start with leap. It disregard any and all keep away game. as gap closer disregard for any and all gameplay mechanics of situation that apply to health bar. IT IS SPAM AS A ULTIMATE. Leap is without a doubt on a dk use at cost more then any ultimate in the game. The fact is due to the overload nature of this gap closer. There is never a situation where this ultimate is not in a positive situation. Upon use. This skill carry alot of dk gameplay for most user because of its overload nature. Which in return allows bar set up on being more tanky instead of using a gap closer. The stun, distance, aoe, and helping hand passive in providing way more then just a hand. But more importantly it stuns as a gap closer.

It is my belief that gap closer should never stun.

That's a L2P issue, sorry.

And what's worst, do you really believe that nerfing Leap will improve your performance?

Leap must stun, in the same way DBoS stuns on an area. Different is the story of Incap + stun since it actually stunned on a class that uses cloak. But even with that, nobody that knows how to play this game will ever say that the solution was a nerf to Incap stun.

Regarding spamming a gap closer, I really want to show you this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XrQ4Cr8qvg

That's spamming a gapcloser. Have you ever seen a DK doing that with leap?

This is also a issue spamming gap closers

MashmalloMan

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

If you don't get it by now, I don't think you'll get it at all until you actually sink some time into DK. Maybe jump off your petsorc for a bit, start a DK, and see how DK plays, before judging it.

I have 27days on a dk. I understand how things work.i strongly disagree with alot of things you said the main point being that dks dont use there ultimate as gap closer primarily. As a 247 day pet sorcerer. I can give you 1 fact to be true most to all dks that kill me start with leap. I will even say 90 to 95% of all deaths start with leap. It disregard any and all keep away game. as gap closer disregard for any and all gameplay mechanics of situation that apply to health bar. IT IS SPAM AS A ULTIMATE. Leap is without a doubt on a dk use at cost more then any ultimate in the game. The fact is due to the overload nature of this gap closer. There is never a situation where this ultimate is not in a positive situation. Upon use. This skill carry alot of dk gameplay for most user because of its overload nature. Which in return allows bar set up on being more tanky instead of using a gap closer. The stun, distance, aoe, and helping hand passive in providing way more then just a hand. But more importantly it stuns as a gap closer.

It is my belief that gap closer should never stun.

27 days? How do you know that? Are you saying 27 days of play time or you made a DK 27 days ago, because I made a DK 2 or 3 years ago, but I don't use them in PvP very much, I guess I must be an expert on the matter on DKs by your logic.

You're in over your head here, your bias is clear and your comment made it clearer. Pulling out random facts like "90 to 95% of all deaths start with leap. It disregard any and all keep away game. as gap closer disregard for any and all gameplay mechanics of situation that apply to health bar. IT IS SPAM AS A ULTIMATE." Or streak is in a gray area lol.

Hate to break it to you, but you can't spam ultimates in this game, that's the nature of ultimates, furthermore, it's an ultimate and doesn't have the same power budget so I don't understand why you keep saying DKs spam leap.

If your going to discuss gap closers that stun, you should stick to abilities like toppling charge and stop acting like this isn't a nerf thread because you die to much to DKs that outplay you.