Imperial City is the best content in the game

Holycannoli

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I always felt that killing someone with Telvar shouldn't make them lose it, but still reward you with (new) Telvar equal to half their loot if they died to you.

Way too exploitable.

IC needs to have rewards that are worth grinding for, like updated sets that people would actually want.

Rave the Histborn

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Coggo wrote: »

That we are still discussing a 2015 DLC in 2019 is a testament to Imperial City's excellence.

That it doesn't attract more than 10 people at a time is a testament to a massive failure in the underlying ethos behind it.

What about the PVE zones? Do you also consider TG/DB/Murkmire failures as well because they also have a similar playerbase?

NBrookus

When IC was released, we had the nonstop 3 way brawls, and TelVar was an afterthought compared to the new, expensive, ruby mats from deconning npc loot. It was all the "fighting" parts of Cyro without pesky siege. It was old Alessia Bridge except without the ride back from Sej, Alessia, or the poor blues trekking from places like Ash. Gankers had to cope with many enemies, not just one TV farmer.

Then the devs had to go and add flags and restricted spawns and rules. No more free for all brawls with ringside respawn.

Now granted, people were getting tired of IC before they added the flags. But can you imagine how popular those brawls would be today as an alternative to laggy Cyrodiil?

_Salty_

IC was the best. The game peaked at thieves guild and its been a downhill slope ever since.

Emma_Overload

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

IC is the best content in the game, but it has some serious flaws and shortcomings that ZOS needs to address:

1) Rewards need to be better. Please put some new gear in the TV store, along with all upgrade tempers, Kutas, etc.

2) There needs to be at least one district or area where all three factions can respawn at will. This will bring back massive 3-way brawls like we used to have in the Arboretum.

3) There need to be some "cloak proof" zones that players can retreat to when they are being harassed by nightblades. This will give poor PvE carebears a fighting chance to save their stones from scummy gankers. I realize this will be difficult to balance, but IC is way too biased towards NBs right now.

1) Why? Who would use Tel Var to buy upgrade mats? The cost wouldn't be worth it.

2) How would you balance it though? Wouldn't that just allow what happens in IC with district. Apps to happen faster?

3) Can't/ won't ever happen. You'd have to remove stealth entirely from the zone and that wouldn't work. It also wouldn't help PVE players, you'd just have the same forum threads only instead of nerf cloak it's just another skill in its place. PVE players just need to learn dying is part of the game, once you get over that hurdle the rest isnt that bad. Theres plenty of ways around cloakers once you've got some experience with them.

1) Literally anybody who is trying to make gold. Don't you know that TV farming is the primary source for alchemy mats that are used to make potions for sale? This is how I became a multi-millionaire.

2) This the way it used to work, and it was fine. If you were here during the heyday of Arboretum Deathmatch, you would know what I'm talking about. Don't underestimate the buzz-killing effect of an extra loading screen, especially since you can get stuck in a loading screen for minutes or forever. Immediate respawns mean that the action keeps going without any delays. If players have to wait too long for enemies to show up, they get bored and wander off. This has done more than anything to kill the population in IC, believe it or not. Bring back endless deathmatch with instant gratification, and players will be happy to spend all night in the City again!

3) Like I said, it would be tricky to balance.

JadonSky

I have a lot of good memories in IC. Running through sewers and and upper city dodging 3 flagged bosses or running them into enemy groups. I just wish they made it apart of Cyrodiil as a whole, like you could actually access it from the bridges instead of it being its own instance.

But sadly ZOS's performance issues and queues made this impossible so now its in its own campaign entirely

Juhasow

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Coggo wrote: »

That we are still discussing a 2015 DLC in 2019 is a testament to Imperial City's excellence.

That it doesn't attract more than 10 people at a time is a testament to a massive failure in the underlying ethos behind it.

What about the PVE zones? Do you also consider TG/DB/Murkmire failures as well because they also have a similar playerbase?

Problem is those zones are so called "small zone DLC" and are not created to attract massive amount of people for extended amount of time. Primary reason to visit them is storyline so it's obvious You wont see lot of people there at once. If murkmire or any other small DLC would be the single PvE DLC in the game then it would obviously have way more players. Tthose mentioned DLCs are just part of multiple PvE DLCs game have so it's obvious PvE preffering crowd will be split between those multiple zones plus bunch of base game PvE zones. If people would like the idea of PvEvP as it is right now then IC would be more populated because it's only zone with that type of activity.

Ascarl

I don t like it, but I like the fact that the game is offering fun activities to people with different taste.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Imperial City is like raisins iN chocolate cookies. Bad. The two cannot cooperate, if you think “hey! Chocolate chip!” and bite in, nope, mouth full of gross gritty raisin.

Blech

Mr_Walker

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Coggo wrote: »

That we are still discussing a 2015 DLC in 2019 is a testament to Imperial City's excellence.

That it doesn't attract more than 10 people at a time is a testament to a massive failure in the underlying ethos behind it.

What about the PVE zones? Do you also consider TG/DB/Murkmire failures as well because they also have a similar playerbase?

Are you asserting the criteria for the success of a zone is based on the amount of people "discussing" it? Because even the 3 zones you mentioned typically have more pop than IC.

Rave the Histborn

Rungar wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

As a PvE person, the primary reason I don't go there is that you lose your telvar. I don't care about dying, I play BGs and Cyrodiil whenever I want to transmute something. But I don't bother with IC because I'm gonna lose my telvar anyway. And that's really the only reason to go in there. If I actually had incentive to go in there, that I could actually progress (albeit at a slower rate than people good at pvp) then I would go.

I always felt that killing someone with Telvar shouldn't make them lose it, but still reward you with (new) Telvar equal to half their loot if they died to you. This way being good at PVP allowed you to farm Telvar faster that people who weren't, but people aren't good feel like they can make progress too. Similar to how BGs and Cyrodiil are more rewarding to good players but not unrewarding to those are average or bad.

IDK. I always felt this mechanic is what killed IC. And I also think double telvar is why you see so many people in during events. It helps alleviate this problem, however briefly, by making Telvar so plentiful that losing it doesn't set you back nearly as much. And with groups so plentiful you also die less and can't be total shutdown from earning.

Bingo. Telvar system sounds good on paper but fails in implementation because of player behavior on both sides of the spectrum. The zone itself is the best eso has. They should adjust the loss component until its more popular. I imagine that would be somewhere around a 15% loss and a corresponding lower top multiplier. Keep in mind with that number people will play with more telvar on them. As opposed to gankers with no telvar farming telvar farmers.

Reducing the tel var loss and multiplier won't encourage more people to go into IC, it'll just finally kill it entirely. The same people that dont like to lose TV still aren't going to like it because you're going to reduce their overall gains. People will have to play with more TV on them but at the risk of getting ganked now for more limited returns on TV and the gold it is worth.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

IC is the best content in the game, but it has some serious flaws and shortcomings that ZOS needs to address:

1) Rewards need to be better. Please put some new gear in the TV store, along with all upgrade tempers, Kutas, etc.

2) There needs to be at least one district or area where all three factions can respawn at will. This will bring back massive 3-way brawls like we used to have in the Arboretum.

3) There need to be some "cloak proof" zones that players can retreat to when they are being harassed by nightblades. This will give poor PvE carebears a fighting chance to save their stones from scummy gankers. I realize this will be difficult to balance, but IC is way too biased towards NBs right now.

1) Why? Who would use Tel Var to buy upgrade mats? The cost wouldn't be worth it.

2) How would you balance it though? Wouldn't that just allow what happens in IC with district. Apps to happen faster?

3) Can't/ won't ever happen. You'd have to remove stealth entirely from the zone and that wouldn't work. It also wouldn't help PVE players, you'd just have the same forum threads only instead of nerf cloak it's just another skill in its place. PVE players just need to learn dying is part of the game, once you get over that hurdle the rest isnt that bad. Theres plenty of ways around cloakers once you've got some experience with them.

1) Literally anybody who is trying to make gold. Don't you know that TV farming is the primary source for alchemy mats that are used to make potions for sale? This is how I became a multi-millionaire.

2) This the way it used to work, and it was fine. If you were here during the heyday of Arboretum Deathmatch, you would know what I'm talking about. Don't underestimate the buzz-killing effect of an extra loading screen, especially since you can get stuck in a loading screen for minutes or forever. Immediate respawns mean that the action keeps going without any delays. If players have to wait too long for enemies to show up, they get bored and wander off. This has done more than anything to kill the population in IC, believe it or not. Bring back endless deathmatch with instant gratification, and players will be happy to spend all night in the City again!

3) Like I said, it would be tricky to balance.

1) That's why I'm asking this question. The alchemy mats are prices well because they are a random bag of goods and there's a reason you don't hear anyone buying the rubetide or any other regular mats they sell in IC. For the TV cost they are way overpriced and not worth in any way buying. The same would go for gold mats, you'd have the option to waste TV on but it would be more cost effective to buy other things and sell them.

2) I was there during the hey day of Arboretum, I also remember having to run back from the sewers for a reason. Immediate respawns also mean more negative consequences overall to the game. Sure big battles would be cooler and not end as quickly but they are there so they don't just carry on for no reason. A 45min free for all in Arbo is also less entertaining over time if there's no other objective beyond killing the same people over and over again. This would also negatively impact nonPVP inclined more then your average pvp base. Imagine if you got lucky and killed someone more skilled then you only for them to grief insantly by coming back to get their lost tel var back. It would eliminate a lot of the risk / reward of carrying a lot of TV.

3) That's your only answer because what I said is true, it's not balancable in that way.

sharquez

My only wish for IC is weekly leader boards rewards. I'm just so tired of cyrodiil, and it's horse simulator. would rather earn my geodes from IC.

BNOC

NBrookus wrote: »

When IC was released, we had the nonstop 3 way brawls, and TelVar was an afterthought compared to the new, expensive, ruby mats from deconning npc loot. It was all the "fighting" parts of Cyro without pesky siege. It was old Alessia Bridge except without the ride back from Sej, Alessia, or the poor blues trekking from places like Ash. Gankers had to cope with many enemies, not just one TV farmer.

Then the devs had to go and add flags and restricted spawns and rules. No more free for all brawls with ringside respawn.

Now granted, people were getting tired of IC before they added the flags. But can you imagine how popular those brawls would be today as an alternative to laggy Cyrodiil?

One of the best parts of IC though is that not every zergling on earth goes there so you're spared some of the nonsense they bring.

Back in the day, when duelling up Arena district was the place to be (at least for us on XB) it was sick, honestly, I love duelling now and I wouldn't change it, but you had the top boys down by the arena duelling and all the zergs up the top at the spawns (usually around the door between red and blue)

One thing I hated was the ease of re spawning and the safe zone camping.

Nothing was worse than gankers/noobs standing on top of their base in pure fear, just sniping etc; regardless of how many allies sat below fighting.

The ease of respawn also favoured higher numbers as well - People who die have to climb a ladder and run back instead of just dropping down instantly and joining in, I'd prefer:

1. Following a BG-esque respawn timer, 30s-1min for example on any death into the district you died in
2. Have base walls similar to WoW wherein, if you're standing on your spawn you get booted off after 15s or so - Or, just make the whole top ledge a safe zone - It currently does and always did promote absolute garbage gameplay.

I honestly prefer IC to be smaller groups and wouldn't mind groups being capped at 6. I don't care how many groups are there, as long as they can't benefit 100% from numbers, it's one of the last places left where it's viable to have those fights - Especially enjoyable when there is risk involved, which people just wouldn't bring.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

1) That's why I'm asking this question. The alchemy mats are prices well because they are a random bag of goods and there's a reason you don't hear anyone buying the rubetide or any other regular mats they sell in IC. For the TV cost they are way overpriced and not worth in any way buying. The same would go for gold mats, you'd have the option to waste TV on but it would be more cost effective to buy other things and sell them.

It's one of those, they simply never updated the prices of the other mats.

Back in the launch days, making 10-15k Telvar an hour was some SERIOUS solo grinding down the loops, but you could buy a stack of silk with that 10k and sell it for 100-120k. I made easily 25m+ from that method early on and basically supplied the whole server silk.

So it was amazing in it's glory days when you couldn't get 15k telvar per 2 minute kill and back when silk was hard/boring to come by for the weaker players (pick it yourself, deconstruct 9000 items or farm sewers) but alas it's not anymore and coulda been reduced, even then, who's gonna buy it realistically?

Rave the Histborn

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Coggo wrote: »

That we are still discussing a 2015 DLC in 2019 is a testament to Imperial City's excellence.

That it doesn't attract more than 10 people at a time is a testament to a massive failure in the underlying ethos behind it.

What about the PVE zones? Do you also consider TG/DB/Murkmire failures as well because they also have a similar playerbase?

Are you asserting the criteria for the success of a zone is based on the amount of people "discussing" it? Because even the 3 zones you mentioned typically have more pop than IC.

If you read the person that I was originally quoting they are saying it is a failure because it "doesn't attract more than 10 people at a time is a testament to a massive failure" which is untrue. It was very successful at launch and trying to compare that to 5years later with a base that doesn't like how ZOS balances and years of server issues is misrepresenting it. There's a lot of the pvp base that have quit because of this and pve players get frustrated at dying in PVP so they get scared of. There were more people in IC then a dlc like Murkmire had during its prime and comparstively to somewhere like TG/DB which are comparatively dead during primetime hours.

Mr_Walker

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

If you read the person that I was originally quoting they are saying it is a failure because it "doesn't attract more than 10 people at a time is a testament to a massive failure" which is untrue. It was very successful at launch and trying to compare that to 5years later with a base that doesn't like how ZOS balances and years of server issues is misrepresenting it. There's a lot of the pvp base that have quit because of this and pve players get frustrated at dying in PVP so they get scared of. There were more people in IC then a dlc like Murkmire had during its prime and comparstively to somewhere like TG/DB which are comparatively dead during primetime hours.

Always excuses. It's dead because of gankers who abused the risk/reward mechanic. Deal with it.

Plus, I'm the person you were originally quoting, so I must confess to some bemusement.

Dojohoda

I like IC. It's different from every other place in the game. The sewers are especially creepy with the layout, the sounds, the patrolling bosses, the potential pvp.

Rave the Histborn

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

If you read the person that I was originally quoting they are saying it is a failure because it "doesn't attract more than 10 people at a time is a testament to a massive failure" which is untrue. It was very successful at launch and trying to compare that to 5years later with a base that doesn't like how ZOS balances and years of server issues is misrepresenting it. There's a lot of the pvp base that have quit because of this and pve players get frustrated at dying in PVP so they get scared of. There were more people in IC then a dlc like Murkmire had during its prime and comparstively to somewhere like TG/DB which are comparatively dead during primetime hours.

Always excuses. It's dead because of gankers who abused the risk/reward mechanic. Deal with it.

Plus, I'm the person you were originally quoting, so I must confess to some bemusement.

It's not an excuse, that's why you can't refute any of it. It was very popular in the day and during peak hours still has a decent sized community going in it, which is more than I can say about Murkmire.

You can't abuse the risk reward mechanic when you have no control over how much tel var the other player carries. Anyone crying about "gankers" in a pvp zone has no credibility in the conversation. There's multiple ways to not get ganked in IC, all of which immediately get brushed away by people like you. The only person responsible for your deaths in IC is you. Deal with it.

I find it more amusing that you understand so little of your own as argument that your response looked like someone that had just joined the conversation. Sorry, I didnt look at the name, I was busy proving your argument wrong.

Mr_Walker

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

It's not an excuse, that's why you can't refute any of it. It was very popular in the day and during peak hours still has a decent sized community going in it, which is more than I can say about Murkmire.

Yeah, nah, it really doesn't. Unless you think 1 bar is a sizeable population....

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

You can't abuse the risk reward mechanic when you have no control over how much tel var the other player carries. Anyone crying about "gankers" in a pvp zone has no credibility in the conversation. There's multiple ways to not get ganked in IC, all of which immediately get brushed away by people like you. The only person responsible for your deaths in IC is you. Deal with it.

I'll ignore the ad hominems, but yes, the risk reward mechanic is abused. Why should someone with no skin in the game get 50% of your TV? A far better mechanic would be tiered, like the TV multiplier.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

I find it more amusing that you understand so little of your own as argument that your response looked like someone that had just joined the conversation. Sorry, I didnt look at the name, I was busy proving your argument wrong.

I find it more amusing that you huff and puff over your inability to track who you respond to, but it;s good to see you've declared yourself the winner here.

I'd just like to thank you for your feedback, I know it means a lot to you.

TheRealPotoroo

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

If you read the person that I was originally quoting they are saying it is a failure because it "doesn't attract more than 10 people at a time is a testament to a massive failure" which is untrue. It was very successful at launch and trying to compare that to 5years later with a base that doesn't like how ZOS balances and years of server issues is misrepresenting it. There's a lot of the pvp base that have quit because of this and pve players get frustrated at dying in PVP so they get scared of. There were more people in IC then a dlc like Murkmire had during its prime and comparstively to somewhere like TG/DB which are comparatively dead during primetime hours.

Always excuses. It's dead because of gankers who abused the risk/reward mechanic. Deal with it.

Plus, I'm the person you were originally quoting, so I must confess to some bemusement.

It's not an excuse, that's why you can't refute any of it. It was very popular in the day and during peak hours still has a decent sized community going in it, which is more than I can say about Murkmire.

You can't abuse the risk reward mechanic when you have no control over how much tel var the other player carries. Anyone crying about "gankers" in a pvp zone has no credibility in the conversation. There's multiple ways to not get ganked in IC, all of which immediately get brushed away by people like you. The only person responsible for your deaths in IC is you. Deal with it.

I find it more amusing that you understand so little of your own as argument that your response looked like someone that had just joined the conversation. Sorry, I didnt look at the name, I was busy proving your argument wrong.

Here we go again, the same tired, self-satisfied BS about how IC is a PVP zone - it isn't, it's a hybrid PVE/PVP zone - and since the overwhelming majority of ESO players play PVE and since PVE and PVP are so different an optimal build in one mode well under-performs in the other and since ZOS adamantly refuse to give us a painless way to switch between builds for different modes PVE players are now and always will be a such a massive disadvantage that gankers should be shunned, shamed and driven out of decent society.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

Make Imperial City Great Again

Indoril_Nerevar

Sounds like you either play PC

or lie.

Imperial City Sewers are the worst. Too much elitism, cheating and exploiting and unfair battling.

It has the lowest population and people camp, troll, and "second screen watch" with their other accounts and their guild members and friends.

These are the facts. Sorry I don't see any meaning in debating about a problem that has existed for years.

Psijic42

I'm really glad that this thread has gained some traction, it's fun to see many animated responses, even if half are negative.

After reading people's opinions on the topic, I have essentially two hopes:

1. ZOS will some day eventually take seriously the concept of more PvPvE content. Yes some people don't like it, but also yes some people really really do.

2. People will come to understand that just because they don't like certain content in the game, or certain playstyles, doesn't mean it's 'bad', 'broken', 'cheating gankers' or whatever. For those of us who like the IC, and/or sewers, we seriously mean it. Yes, I seriously honestly truly mean that I *like* fighting against bosses that are as hard as maelstrom, in a PvP zone where my resources are not PvE level high, and where some ganker can pop out at any moment. It's challenging and exciting.

There are lots and lots of PvP games, Overwatch, CoD, WoW, Black Desert, DoTA, or pick your flavor, and there are lots of people who like PvP content. This next line might sound a bit rude sry, but essentially I wish some PvE 'carebears' would realize that not every single part of the game has to 100% cater to them. For example I don't find fishing personally enjoyable, but I can see how someone would, and I don't run around screaming 'fishtard exploiterholes' or whatever. Having a large game with many different activities can only attract more people. Also yes, omg there are some glitches, that's completely unheard of and ruins everything /s.

To people who cry 'elitism', please realize that the desire to level-up and hopefully gain god-like super powers is kinda one of the primary motivators for everyone who plays RPGs. I give a high five, and a little secret envy, to players that have really figured it out. Don't send salt tells, figure out how they beat you, and improve yourself.

Also to all who are pointing to low population numbers as some strike against IC, I would counter in a few ways. First off, it is 5 year old content, and one of the first additions to the game, a testament to good design. Also, admittedly as a TV farmer sometimes low pop is nice, since it makes it easier. Highlighting too that low pop = no lag (!!!). Next, even if the IC population is comparatively lower than say Grahtwood or Elsweyr, is far from non-zero. I know for certain there are many other players who love the IC, because a lot of them are in my friends list. Also by metaphor, again diversity of content is a good thing. Some people like busy night clubs, some people like cozy coffee shops, neither is 'right' or 'wrong'.

So, I'm honored to have started a animated conversation here, and I hope it continues. I reeeeally seriously hope that some day there may be more PvPvE content in the game, and draw in more fans of the genre. Imperial City is awesome content, and my personal favorite place to spend many many hours. Thanks for your consideration. Maybe too I'll see you in the city.

Cheers,
Psijic42

leeux

I tended to love the IC when I didn't care about the telvars I was carrying... the moment I started thinking about them, then I started hating the IC

BTW, I loved the free for all action in the districts at release around 2015... I spent hours and hours there... it was full of people but most of them unorganized and without becoming too zergy... and the bosses were hard, you had to avoid them if you were solo or even with a few around!

These days? Meh... If I was still playing the game regularly, I'd only go there if one of my guilds organized some event there, or to finish the quests I still have pending, or to complete fishing achievements... not for much else, not because I dislike IC, but because I dislike what the game has become and the state of the combat.

Aloha

Imperial City, best ambiance, mature game, real war, good quests, farming interesting, small scale PvP, two really good dungeons before their nerf (2016)... Yes, this is my favorite zone.


Dark Brotherhood is very good too for quest dlc, summerset most beautiful area, but... for story Wrothgar is totally awesome with its main quest.

Other dlc are... ok with great dungeons.


Old Elder scrolls was no noobfriendly like now... remember Veteran 14 in craglorn

Rave the Histborn

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

It's not an excuse, that's why you can't refute any of it. It was very popular in the day and during peak hours still has a decent sized community going in it, which is more than I can say about Murkmire.

Yeah, nah, it really doesn't. Unless you think 1 bar is a sizeable population....

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

You can't abuse the risk reward mechanic when you have no control over how much tel var the other player carries. Anyone crying about "gankers" in a pvp zone has no credibility in the conversation. There's multiple ways to not get ganked in IC, all of which immediately get brushed away by people like you. The only person responsible for your deaths in IC is you. Deal with it.

I'll ignore the ad hominems, but yes, the risk reward mechanic is abused. Why should someone with no skin in the game get 50% of your TV? A far better mechanic would be tiered, like the TV multiplier.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

I find it more amusing that you understand so little of your own as argument that your response looked like someone that had just joined the conversation. Sorry, I didnt look at the name, I was busy proving your argument wrong.

I find it more amusing that you huff and puff over your inability to track who you respond to, but it;s good to see you've declared yourself the winner here.

I'd just like to thank you for your feedback, I know it means a lot to you.

"Yeah, nah, it really doesn't. Unless you think 1 bar is a sizeable population...."

Oh, I'm sorry my mistake. I forgot 1 population bar is lower then the 0 population of some of our newest dlcs. That was my bad thinking the 5 year old DLC had more staying power then some of our more current ones.

"I'll ignore the ad hominems, but yes, the risk reward mechanic is abused. Why should someone with no skin in the game get 50% of your TV? A far better mechanic would be tiered, like the TV multiplier."

I guess telling you that you're responsible for your own gameplay is an ad hominem now.

Why should you lose 50% if you die to enemies then? I dont seem to see you arguing for the removal of that mechanic when it would actually apply to your argument.

How would a tiered system be any different? It seems like it's just an attempt to prevent TV loss for sub par players which doesn't actually help the population of IC. It also doesn't stop any mechanics abuse you're claiming happens.

"I find it more amusing that you huff and puff over your inability to track who you respond to, but it;s good to see you've declared yourself the winner here."

Almost as amusing your ability to not back up any of your claims. But hey maybe after you've checked my spelling after this you can keep asking for changes to a dlc you've clearly not played. Maybe spend less time on the forums and more in game and IC would be less daunting.

Rave the Histborn

Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »

Sounds like you either play PC

or lie.

Imperial City Sewers are the worst. Too much elitism, cheating and exploiting and unfair battling.

It has the lowest population and people camp, troll, and "second screen watch" with their other accounts and their guild members and friends.

These are the facts. Sorry I don't see any meaning in debating about a problem that has existed for years.

1) Every part of the game has this. End game PVE trial groups/pve zone chats are more toxic than pvp ever could try to be.

2) It has a higher population then Hew's Bane, Gold Coast, CWC, and Murkmire during peak hours and has probably seen more players in it during its life span then something like Murkmire.

3) Please look up the definition of a fact.

Mr_Walker

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Oh, I'm sorry my mistake. I forgot 1 population bar is lower then the 0 population of some of our newest dlcs. That was my bad thinking the 5 year old DLC had more staying power then some of our more current ones.

1 bar is when it's busy. At peak times. The rest of the time you can fire the proverbial shotgun through any part of it and not hit anyone.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Why should you lose 50% if you die to enemies then? I dont seem to see you arguing for the removal of that mechanic when it would actually apply to your argument.

Enemies don't profit from abuse pof the mechanic.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

How would a tiered system be any different? It seems like it's just an attempt to prevent TV loss for sub par players which doesn't actually help the population of IC. It also doesn't stop any mechanics abuse you're claiming happens.

A tiered system would ensure that any ganker has to take commensurate risk in order to achieve a good % reward. As opposed to the abusers who gank from stealth and have 0 TV on them - therefore having zero risk.

It may/may not improve the population of IC, but the status quo remains the status quo if nothing changes.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Almost as amusing your ability to not back up any of your claims. But hey maybe after you've checked my spelling after this you can keep asking for changes to a dlc you've clearly not played.

I gotta laugh at this "back up your claims" huffing. How many folk need to tell you the population is tiny in order for you to believe it?

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Maybe spend less time on the forums and more in game and IC would be less daunting.

Ah, I see your error. I spend much of my time in PvP, and whilst I often find IC empty, I don't find it daunting. I'm simply telling you why the zone is a comparative failure. People talking/whinging about a zone on the forum doesn't make it a success. People playing a zone make it a success, and right now no one can say that criteria is met.

Rave the Histborn

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Oh, I'm sorry my mistake. I forgot 1 population bar is lower then the 0 population of some of our newest dlcs. That was my bad thinking the 5 year old DLC had more staying power then some of our more current ones.

1 bar is when it's busy. At peak times. The rest of the time you can fire the proverbial shotgun through any part of it and not hit anyone.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Why should you lose 50% if you die to enemies then? I dont seem to see you arguing for the removal of that mechanic when it would actually apply to your argument.

Enemies don't profit from abuse pof the mechanic.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

How would a tiered system be any different? It seems like it's just an attempt to prevent TV loss for sub par players which doesn't actually help the population of IC. It also doesn't stop any mechanics abuse you're claiming happens.

A tiered system would ensure that any ganker has to take commensurate risk in order to achieve a good % reward. As opposed to the abusers who gank from stealth and have 0 TV on them - therefore having zero risk.

It may/may not improve the population of IC, but the status quo remains the status quo if nothing changes.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Almost as amusing your ability to not back up any of your claims. But hey maybe after you've checked my spelling after this you can keep asking for changes to a dlc you've clearly not played.

I gotta laugh at this "back up your claims" huffing. How many folk need to tell you the population is tiny in order for you to believe it?

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Maybe spend less time on the forums and more in game and IC would be less daunting.

Ah, I see your error. I spend much of my time in PvP, and whilst I often find IC empty, I don't find it daunting. I'm simply telling you why the zone is a comparative failure. People talking/whinging about a zone on the forum doesn't make it a success. People playing a zone make it a success, and right now no one can say that criteria is met.

"1 bar is when it's busy. At peak times. The rest of the time you can fire the proverbial shotgun through any part of it and not hit anyone."

Ok, since you're not refuting anything about the other DLCs then we can only come to the conclusions that A)1 in IC is still 1 bar more then other PVE zones in the same time and Those DLCs aren't successful by your own initial claims but IC is.

"Enemies don't profit from abuse pof the mechanic."

There is again no abuse that you can point to besides saying there is abuse going on. If there really was you'd be able to give an example. Ganks aren't abuse they are easily countered if you take more then 5sec to actually learn to pvp. It also kinda goes against what you said earlier too, "Why should someone with no skin in the game get 50% of your TV?" If someone with no skin in the game should get 50% of your TV then why do they give it to NPCs? It's because this is how the mechanics is supposed to be working in the first place.

"A tiered system would ensure that any ganker has to take commensurate risk in order to achieve a good % reward. As opposed to the abusers who gank from stealth and have 0 TV on them - therefore having zero risk."

LOL again how? Gankers aren't ganking you for your tel var, they don't know how much you have on you. They ARE ganking you because you are in a PVP zone and that's what their build is. Do you really think forcing someone to carry say 10k Tel Var is going to deter someone from ganking because they might lose it? Anyone really that good or dedicated people are going to get scared off by that? I'll even do you one better, if you get ganked 50% of your TV just disappears do you think that would stop people from ganking in IC?

"It may/may not improve the population of IC, but the status quo remains the status quo if nothing changes."

Ummm, the age old quote "if it's not broken don't fix it" seems to pop right into mind.

"I gotta laugh at this "back up your claims" huffing. How many folk need to tell you the population is tiny in order for you to believe it?"

LOL Well at least you can keep track of who I'm talking to when I reply but you can't remember your own arguments. Even if the population of IC now is tiny it wasn't always like that. By your own metrics it has more players in it currently then newer DLCs and since your only metric for success is population it is a more successful DLC then smaller story zone DLCs have been. I don't have to "huff" about anything but that's all you can point to because you can't back up anything you're saying.

"Ah, I see your error. I spend much of my time in PvP, and whilst I often find IC empty, I don't find it daunting."

LOL sure dude, queueing for IC then AFKing isn't spending most of your time in PVP. You seem to have a general lack of knowledge on TV, IC and its mechanics in general for me to take you seriously.

"I'm simply telling you why the zone is a comparative failure."

That's all you've said is IC is a failure, you've got no data, nothing to back it up, and again, you seem to lack basic knowledge of IC's own mechanics and any time I ask you for it I'm "huffing about data." Even when you use your own comparison your wrong about it.

"People talking/whinging about a zone on the forum doesn't make it a success."

Sure, but it also doesn't make it unsuccessful so your big point it's really a non point

"People playing a zone make it a success, and right now no one can say that criteria is met."

Key words there are right now. Sure, right now IC isn't as populated but again if you compare it to its prime vs the prime any other non chapter DLC it is far more successful then any of them. I mean if you really wanna do this is and just say the measure of success is population we wouldn't have dungeon DLC at all because right now those populations running those dungeons on the regular are almost non existent. TG/DB/Murkmire/CWC are all failures because right now at 9:19pm EST 11/28/19 I just checked them all in game right now and their zones are severely underpopulated.

renne

spartaxoxo wrote: »

As a PvE person, the primary reason I don't go there is that you lose your telvar. I don't care about dying, I play BGs and Cyrodiil whenever I want to transmute something. But I don't bother with IC because I'm gonna lose my telvar anyway. And that's really the only reason to go in there. If I actually had incentive to go in there, that I could actually progress (albeit at a slower rate than people good at pvp) then I would go.

Bank your Tel Var when you get over the amount you can deal with losing, or run on a low multiplier. It might be a bit slower than if you're decent at PvP (and I'm not, I've never killed another player in my life), but it's how I accumulate them.

TheRealPotoroo

Psijic42 wrote: »

I'm really glad that this thread has gained some traction, it's fun to see many animated responses, even if half are negative.

After reading people's opinions on the topic, I have essentially two hopes:

1. ZOS will some day eventually take seriously the concept of more PvPvE content. Yes some people don't like it, but also yes some people really really do.

2. People will come to understand that just because they don't like certain content in the game, or certain playstyles, doesn't mean it's 'bad', 'broken', 'cheating gankers' or whatever. For those of us who like the IC, and/or sewers, we seriously mean it. Yes, I seriously honestly truly mean that I *like* fighting against bosses that are as hard as maelstrom, in a PvP zone where my resources are not PvE level high, and where some ganker can pop out at any moment. It's challenging and exciting.

There are lots and lots of PvP games, Overwatch, CoD, WoW, Black Desert, DoTA, or pick your flavor, and there are lots of people who like PvP content. This next line might sound a bit rude sry, but essentially I wish some PvE 'carebears' would realize that not every single part of the game has to 100% cater to them. For example I don't find fishing personally enjoyable, but I can see how someone would, and I don't run around screaming 'fishtard exploiterholes' or whatever. Having a large game with many different activities can only attract more people. Also yes, omg there are some glitches, that's completely unheard of and ruins everything /s.

To people who cry 'elitism', please realize that the desire to level-up and hopefully gain god-like super powers is kinda one of the primary motivators for everyone who plays RPGs. I give a high five, and a little secret envy, to players that have really figured it out. Don't send salt tells, figure out how they beat you, and improve yourself.

Also to all who are pointing to low population numbers as some strike against IC, I would counter in a few ways. First off, it is 5 year old content, and one of the first additions to the game, a testament to good design. Also, admittedly as a TV farmer sometimes low pop is nice, since it makes it easier. Highlighting too that low pop = no lag (!!!). Next, even if the IC population is comparatively lower than say Grahtwood or Elsweyr, is far from non-zero. I know for certain there are many other players who love the IC, because a lot of them are in my friends list. Also by metaphor, again diversity of content is a good thing. Some people like busy night clubs, some people like cozy coffee shops, neither is 'right' or 'wrong'.

So, I'm honored to have started a animated conversation here, and I hope it continues. I reeeeally seriously hope that some day there may be more PvPvE content in the game, and draw in more fans of the genre. Imperial City is awesome content, and my personal favorite place to spend many many hours. Thanks for your consideration. Maybe too I'll see you in the city.

Cheers,
Psijic42

That is rude and you knew it was rude when you wrote it. There are no PVE carebears. There are only PVE players who want to be left alone to get on with their game. All your excuses and obfuscations cannot hide the fact that you and your ilk enjoy preying on PVE players whom you know are ill-equipped and unprepared - by game design - for this *** mode.