Pay to Win/No Pay for a good looking pet that actually does something!

Gwahiir

It's not P2W at all, but it is a way to monetise the game even further and screw money out of people.

AlayneStone

It's not p2w but it shouldnt be sold for crowns only, should have been a monthly log in reward or quest item for an event. If this sells well its only the beginning of seeing future stuff like this added for crowns.

Gundug

On its own, the pet is fine. If you have a full roster of characters, it amounts to 90 more slots of storage. There have been plenty of other similarly priced, purely cosmetic pets before. The main issue I have is that the success of convenience type items encourages the developers to build in or maintain as much inconvenience as they can get away with elsewhere in the game. Players have been asking about being given a bit more inventory space for years to manage the increasing number of sets in the game, and this looks to be the solution ZOS has chosen.

This is not pay to win, and the people choosing that as their reasoning against it should rethink their complaint. It is pay for convenience. I hope that these sorts of convenience items do not eventually become necessary simply to enjoy the game.

nolangrady

I hope the Hedgehog pet that gathers loot becomes available soon. The pet isn’t P2W however it could be a litmus test for future pet releases akin to BDO

DaveMoeDee

Gundug wrote: »

On its own, the pet is fine. If you have a full roster of characters, it amounts to 90 more slots of storage. There have been plenty of other similarly priced, purely cosmetic pets before. The main issue I have is that the success of convenience type items encourages the developers to build in or maintain as much inconvenience as they can get away with elsewhere in the game. Players have been asking about being given a bit more inventory space for years to manage the increasing number of sets in the game, and this looks to be the solution ZOS has chosen.

This is not pay to win, and the people choosing that as their reasoning against it should rethink their complaint. It is pay for convenience. I hope that these sorts of convenience items do not eventually become necessary simply to enjoy the game.

Agreed. Building in annoyances is a disturbing trend.

That being said, there are countless single player games with no micro-transactions where inventory management sucks due to limits. Inventory management sucked long before the explosion of mats, furnishings, gear sets, and crafting bags. I can justify hardships to push people to sub, but not the needs to spend beyond that to not find the game frustrating.

DaveMoeDee

Gwahiir wrote: »

It's not P2W at all, but it is a way to monetise the game even further and screw money out of people.

I think this focus is off. It is another item that will encourage ZOS to keep vanilla inventory management painful. No screwing out of money is going on here. Just sketchy design of game systems.

RefLiberty

I'm just amazed that someone will pay 1,2 K for 5 bag spaces per character and it is fine to spend half a day moving crap from one char to another and micromanage inventory, instead of buying monthly sub that costs like 2-3 beers or hamburgers.
Meh.

Kiralyn2000

There's another aspect to think about with the Crown Store - they give everyone on ESO+ 1650 crowns each month. They have to keep figuring out new things to add to the store for them to spend those on - if there's nothing they want, those "free" Crowns cease to be a 'bonus' of the ESO+ sub.


Of course, Crown Gifting added another outlet for subscribers who can't think of anything else to do with their monthly crowns. /shrug

scorpius2k1

Gwahiir wrote: »

It's not P2W at all, but it is a way to monetise the game even further and screw money out of people.

The bigger point here. We can spend all day "classifying" this crap to no end. Pay to.........WHATEVER....here, I'll make a new one:

P2E - Pay To Exploit (game features)

ESO (and most modern games) are by design, made to exploit game features to players for monetary gain, many of which shouldn't even be monetized at all. We are literally saying its "OK" to paywall features or advancing in the game. The more and more this goes on, the precedent is starting to become very clear that more and more paywalls are being put into the game as "options". That is the problem, not a silly "omg adorable" pig that pulls your little heart strings + 5 extra inventory slots. It's just yet another feature-set that is being exploited for monetization and supports more and more features being drawn into the game that could maybe be better spend having the devs actually improve the game instead of "what else can we monetize".

There will undoubtedly be many, many more. I have a feeling that Transmute Crystals will eventually be monetized as well to make it more "convenient" to transmute your weapons. Would this be an issue, probably not. But WHY should something like this be monetized in the first place? Is it better to just pay your way instead of enjoying the game experience, meeting new people, and so on? Little by little, ESO is becoming an entire cash store. I personally would rather go a sub model than this route which will end up costing all of us a lot more cash to enjoy the game fully. Another side effect of some of these convenience feathers is we end up playing less and paying more---which is more important to you as a player?

jcm2606

People take the term P2W too literally nowadays. The problem isn't that this new pet helps you win anything, because obviously that's absurd. How can more inventory slots help you win something? The problem is that this new pet gives a gameplay-affecting advantage to players who have bought it, with no way to acquire it other than paying real money or a lot of gold to buy it from another player.

While this isn't nearly as bad as some gameplay-affecting microtransactions that other publishers shoehorn into games, it is pushing the boundaries, and you can very clearly see ZoS testing the community to see how far they have to push until we snap. First we had jewelry crafting, allowing players to skip-the-grind, if they bought Summerset. Then we had skyshards being purchasable in bulk through the crown store. Then we had entire skill lines purchasable through the crown store. And now we have a pet that passively gives an extra 5 inventory slots, being purchasable through the crown store.

See the trend? Start off completely innocuous, where anybody opposing it is a cheap idiot, but then slowly release more and more impactful purchases, until the community snaps. What's next? An NPC that acts as a portable crafting station, with a premium alternative that allows you to craft any set piece out in the wild?

You're probably saying "that'll never happen, stop being ridiculous!", but that's the whole point. To lull the community into a false sense of security, making us believe that they'd never stoop that low, and that anybody who says otherwise is being ridiculous. Let me ask you, though. A year ago, did you think they'd release a non-combat pet that actually increased inventory space passively, that's only available through the crown store? Did you think they'd allow you to purchase fully leveled skill lines, and skyshards in bulk, exclusively through the crown store?

The answer is probably no, and that's the whole point. You probably never thought they'd do that, so what's to stop them from doing something a little more egregious, then a little more, then a little more? We're the frog in the pot of boiling water, and they're slowly turning the heat up, to see how long until we jump.

Contaminate

Acrolas wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

It stops being a logical fallacy when we’ve been observing the decline for years now

But you haven't observed anything. And you pulled the same slippery slope fallacy in another thread.

Contaminate wrote: »

It's also clearly a test to see how the community reacts to stat bonuses on cosmetics. Unfortunately, it seems like they're being defended so the trend will continue into bigger bonuses. I imagine mounts faster than the established cap will appear soon. After that probably 50 weapon and spell damage on a costume, 5% damage mitigation, etc etc. "But those tiny bonuses won't let someone win" so inevitably some people will still defend it as "Not P2W"

Because it’s true. The Skyshards, the Skill Lines, Welkynar fragments to push to the store, the entirety of jewelrycrafting system flaunting it everywhere but locking players out of what should’ve been a base game feature, the Sunspire mount in the store that was initially identical in model with the only different being the saddle, the ONLY sources of Minor Toughness and Major Vulnerability requiring cash purchases.

ZOS is pushing and pushing the borders of what people will accept, but if you want to stay in the boiling pot, that’s your prerogative.

I can’t pull someone’s head out of the sand if that’s where they’re determined to keep it

Kiralyn2000

Contaminate wrote: »

the entirety of jewelrycrafting system flaunting it everywhere but locking players out of what should’ve been a base game feature,

So, do you have a problem with any DLC or expansion that adds a new feature, if you decide that it "should've been a base game feature"? (Should Necros or Wardens have been a base game feature? What about assassination? What about if they eventually add spellcrafting? How do they tell which things you think should be free, even if worked on and added years later?)


(as for Skill lines & Skyshards - like I've said elsewhere, I don't consider those "p2w" or even the slippery slope before p2w. I consider them traps to separate the foolish from their money. Wasting cash on those things seems exactly that - a total waste. If someone wants to spend $ on them - or heck, even use their ESO+ crowns on them - I won't bemoan that they're 'buying advantage' over me, I'll point and laugh.)

ACaptiveMind

RefLiberty wrote: »

I'm just amazed that someone will pay 1,2 K for 5 bag spaces per character and it is fine to spend half a day moving crap from one char to another and micromanage inventory, instead of buying monthly sub that costs like 2-3 beers or hamburgers.
Meh.

My thinking was that I'd need the space eventually, so I'd get more value out of it by using it right away. I love how it looks, too. Overall it was an impulse buy, and I wouldn't have purchased it if I knew it was the first of its kind.

EDIT: Misunderstood your comment, but I'll leave this up.

Minyassa

FierceSam wrote: »

It’s a butt-ugly pig tho

But it's a beautifully done butt-ugly pig. I mean the details on it are fantastic. The stuff on the pack saddle, the texturing on the drape, really nice work. It's just really good artwork of a hideous creature.

wishlist14

Well i just bought the adorable piggy...i just could not resist his cuteness and the bonus bag space nudged me to get him sooner 😆

Contaminate

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

the entirety of jewelrycrafting system flaunting it everywhere but locking players out of what should’ve been a base game feature,

So, do you have a problem with any DLC or expansion that adds a new feature, if you decide that it "should've been a base game feature"? (Should Necros or Wardens have been a base game feature? What about assassination? What about if they eventually add spellcrafting? How do they tell which things you think should be free, even if worked on and added years later?)


(as for Skill lines & Skyshards - like I've said elsewhere, I don't consider those "p2w" or even the slippery slope before p2w. I consider them traps to separate the foolish from their money. Wasting cash on those things seems exactly that - a total waste. If someone wants to spend $ on them - or heck, even use their ESO+ crowns on them - I won't bemoan that they're 'buying advantage' over me, I'll point and laugh.)

I know you didn’t miss when they stripped Minor Toughness out of the base game to make Warden more appealing. They weren’t exactly subtle about it.

Skill lines and Skyshards are an easy way to smash face in the <50 campaigns, which make it FAR easier to earn AP, easily converted to gold, into PvP motifs, into cosmetics, into GO achievements. They create unquestionable advantages for the paying party over non payers (literally isn’t possible to have fully leveled Undaunted, FG, and MG on a toon under 50), but people still insist that isn’t P2W despite so obviously causing a severe inbalance between two skill-matched players.

Every basic system addition should be base game. No buff/debuff should be locked behind paid content, especially not when it gets torn from the base game to do so as with Warden.

This year, there has been nothing significant added to the game unless you shell out more money. No new dungeons, no new revamps of old content, no new systems, no fixes, no anything. If you aren’t willing to pay, you don’t get any changes but nerfs.

barney2525

Hallothiel wrote: »

Was another thread really necessary?

I didn't think so


Of course, I didn't think the first one was necessary

LadySinflower

I didn't bother to read the description so when I got the pig, I was getting it because it's so butt-ugly it's cute! Now that I know it gives me five extra inventory slots I'm kind of like "meh." Five inventory slots really don't make a difference. Does anyone know, do you have to have the pig dejected as your pet to get the inventory slots? I think it was a good idea. Thanks ZOS.

eso_lags

Torment wrote: »

Forgive me, But zozs helps us in upgrading our inventory within a really good looking pet that actually does something within the game for a change, its no different than upgrading you bank space but with a difference its a PET and the whole forums are ranting on Elder Scrolls going Pay to win don't you all have anything better to rant about, I mean the pet actually does smoothing instead of just running after you, If you don't want to buy it then don't have the extra inventory Simple ........

A pet that actually has a use is something that should have already been in this game. Same thing with mounts you can buy in game, in different zones or something, other than the 4 basic ugly horses that have been in the game since launch. There are many things that belong in a good mmo that are thrown on the crown store to cash in on the player base. Mundus stones in houses are another thing that comes to mind, although this may have changed im not sure.. Artifact weapons is another.

It will only get worse as time goes on. Zos has a habit of locking things behind a pay wall that should be in the base game. They should make more than enough money off of eso plus and the tons of items on the crown store, where they belong. There is no need for them to monotize every new damn thing they do.

As for it being p2w, I dont see it. I just see it as scummy.. Like locking the best looking mounts in the game behind disgusting RNG *** crown crates, or not putting new mounts in new DLC zones, or locking jewelry crafting and skill lines behind a pay wall, or not making more things available through in game means (especially in DLC's), or calling DLCs chapters, or (especially) letting game performance deteriorate to an abysmal level without doing anything to stop it..

But the worst part is doing all of these things while making so much money off eso plus, crown crates, crown store exclusive items (which is pretty much everything except for event stuff), and chapters/DLCs.. Just scummy imo.

BlissfulDeluge

Acrolas wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

How do you not recognize this as a community litmus test?

"They're ok with this, sales were really good! What other stats can we add to these pets to make them more appealing to impulse shoppers?"

"How's about some health bonuses or crit chance? That's going to get us some sales!"

And BAM! Before you know it: "crafting materials upgrade components drop rates have been reduced by half, but check out our crafting supply Crown Crates that we just added the Crown Store!".

Pointing out the slippery slope is not a fallacy, because it is a valid concern to have. We can't definitively say that ZOS will do literal P2W in the future (which to some extent you could argue they already have, with the sets from DLC/Chapters), but it is something everyone should be wary about.

The boar pet is fine, but ZOS is dancing close to the line. It is fully justifed of players to worry about ESO going completely SWTOR.

Michae

People were asking for inventory space upgrade for a long time and this is what we get. It's 5 slots that you cannot get by playing the game. You can max out bag space and bank space for gold, this you can't. Buying crowns for gold doesn't count as it still requires for someone to pay actual money. It's 5 slots for now, but who's to say they won't add more? As a one off it's not that bad, as a trend it can become bad. And don't hit me with slippery slope, people are reacting now so in a few months they won't hear that the ship has sailed on that one and they should've protested before.

Rasande_Robin

I would have bought the inventory upgrade no matter what. I couldn't care less about the pet. A furniture would have been ten times better.

Juhasow

Torment wrote: »

Forgive me, But zozs helps us in upgrading our inventory within a really good looking pet that actually does something within the game for a change, its no different than upgrading you bank space but with a difference its a PET and the whole forums are ranting on Elder Scrolls going Pay to win don't you all have anything better to rant about, I mean the pet actually does smoothing instead of just running after you, If you don't want to buy it then don't have the extra inventory Simple ........

If they want to help us slightly with managing our inventory then why there is no option to get that pet in game through some achievement but You can only buy it with real money ? Do You really think that design of pets in game being just cosmetics and now pet in crown store having additional feature with some impact to gameplay is designed to "help players" ?

The question now is are all the pets in the game designed to not have additional features only for pets in crown store to eventually have them ? Follow up question is where it can go further and what other in game elements are deliberately designed to be weaker or boring/grindy to get , only to place similar or better stuff in the crown store ? Why there is so little amount of nice looking collectibles especially mounts in game when crown store is packed with them ?

For example why we havnt got equivalent of 21M atronach in the game yet ? Was psijic order skill line designed to be grindy and boring to do on multiple characters because that was the developers design despite well known players aversion to similar mages guild farming or they knew soon they'll release option to max it for money so they've made it grindy to increase the sales ?

Seriously it's nothing new that companies are always looking methods to get into players heads and milk easy money from them and they'll even deliberately dumb down the gameplay if needed just to squeeze money out of microtransactions and ZoS is not exception here. There is more then enough evidence for that already on the online gaming market and similarities between different companies behaviour are too obvious at this point. It's not coincidence that in 2016 after Overwatch showed to the world the true power of cash grab that loot boxes can generate 3-4 months later ZoS was ready with release of their crown crates.

People claiming that any microtransactions are designed to "help players" are what makes me worried about future of gaming industry. Current gaming companies will bite whole arm if You'll give them a finger and people arleady gave said companies whole hand.

Huyen

Torment wrote: »

Forgive me, But zozs helps us in upgrading our inventory within a really good looking pet that actually does something within the game for a change, its no different than upgrading you bank space but with a difference its a PET and the whole forums are ranting on Elder Scrolls going Pay to win don't you all have anything better to rant about, I mean the pet actually does smoothing instead of just running after you, If you don't want to buy it then don't have the extra inventory Simple ........

Upgrading bankspace is with gold. Now you can upgrade your inventory space with real money. Wich is a first step towards pay-to-win...

DaveMoeDee

Huyen wrote: »

Torment wrote: »

Forgive me, But zozs helps us in upgrading our inventory within a really good looking pet that actually does something within the game for a change, its no different than upgrading you bank space but with a difference its a PET and the whole forums are ranting on Elder Scrolls going Pay to win don't you all have anything better to rant about, I mean the pet actually does smoothing instead of just running after you, If you don't want to buy it then don't have the extra inventory Simple ........

Upgrading bankspace is with gold. Now you can upgrade your inventory space with real money. Wich is a first step towards pay-to-win...

No it isn't. That isn't how it works. They said what they wouldn't allow in the crown store and this doesn't violate that.

Edit: And let's ditch the "slippery slope" arguments. This already is a design problem. They purposely allow inconveniences in the game so that they can monetize getting around those inconveniences. This is a different problem to P2W, but is a real problem in gaming today.

DaveMoeDee

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

I would have bought the inventory upgrade no matter what. I couldn't care less about the pet. A furniture would have been ten times better.

Not if the furniture took up and inventory slot. At least the pet just hides in collections until summoned.

drwoody44b14_ESO

svartorn wrote: »

Slippery slope is all these losers have in their garbage P2W arguments.

Because that argument actually holds merit.

Every p2w game. Every. Single. One. They all started stuff like this.

Time savers like insta skill lines? Inventory? This is just a start. Those of us old and smart enough have seen it enough times already.

They start out with minor stuff which that doesnt seem to bad. Fabois defend it to the death. Slowly, over time. Sales are great. More and more gets added. Next thing you know, they're selling crown crates with VMA weapons inside them.......but oh wait, the chance is so low though. Fanbois will defend it for that reason.

Want a prime example of this? Black Desert Online. Rift. Archage. We have sub games like WoW and FFXIV, both sub based games, adding MTX like leveling boosts. Wow adds mounts to their store which look amazing, while reskinning the same horse 8 times for an in game reward. The level boost by-passes the beginning gearing up process by giving you a full set of gear. FFXIVs only way to attain a 2 seat mount is from MTX. They also sell major crafting and economy advantages with the additional retainers (they store and sell you items, as well as go on missions for rare mats. They are the bank). Again, both sub based games.

They said what they wouldn't allow in the crown store and this doesn't violate that.

Want an even better example? Fallout 76.....which, guess what? Is owned by the same parent company. Guess what they used to say?

And there are actually people that defend the Fallout 76 BS. So its no surprise that fanbois will defend this as well.


People like you are the reason we have companies like EA and Activision.....who started exactly like this.

DaveMoeDee

drwoody44b14_ESO wrote: »

svartorn wrote: »

Slippery slope is all these losers have in their garbage P2W arguments.

Because that argument actually holds merit.

Every p2w game. Every. Single. One. They all started stuff like this.

Time savers like insta skill lines? Inventory? This is just a start. Those of us old and smart enough have seen it enough times already.

They start out with minor stuff which that doesnt seem to bad. Fabois defend it to the death. Slowly, over time. Sales are great. More and more gets added. Next thing you know, they're selling crown crates with VMA weapons inside them.......but oh wait, the chance is so low though. Fanbois will defend it for that reason.

Want a prime example of this? Black Desert Online. Rift. Archage. We have sub games like WoW and FFXIV, both sub based games, adding MTX like leveling boosts. Wow adds mounts to their store which look amazing, while reskinning the same horse 8 times for an in game reward. The level boost by-passes the beginning gearing up process by giving you a full set of gear. FFXIVs only way to attain a 2 seat mount is from MTX. They also sell major crafting and economy advantages with the additional retainers (they store and sell you items, as well as go on missions for rare mats. They are the bank). Again, both sub based games.

They said what they wouldn't allow in the crown store and this doesn't violate that.

Want an even better example? Fallout 76.....which, guess what? Is owned by the same parent company. Guess what they used to say?

And there are actually people that defend the Fallout 76 BS. So its no surprise that fanbois will defend this as well.


People like you are the reason we have companies like EA and Activision.....who started exactly like this.

People have been talking like you for years in this forum. You are spinning your wheels. Calling people "fabois" [sic] doesn't help your argument any. Try better arguments instead of dismissive name-calling.

FO76 is irrelevant. Different game. Desperate failed game.

I've never played WoW, but are you saying you can pay to get max level, meta gear? Are you saying there are people who feel pressured to spend money so that they can get that gear? I have no problem with selling tokens to get alts to max level if you've already hit max level before. I have no problem with giving a set of underperforming gear that no one would ever use in endgame content. But giving meta gear sets for cash that normally require a lot of effort would be too much. No one is dominating in PvP or setting high scores in group content with garbage gear unless they are considerably better than the people with superior builds.

But these "next they're selling crown crates with VMA weapons" arguments are nonsense. That hasn't happened. Hypothetical arguments are obfuscation here. Lazy way to insert assertions that aren't happening. In fact, in the examples (which I appreciate) that you gave from other games, it doesn't even include an example analogous to adding VMA weapons into crown crates!

Edit: just noticed how wrong your "every. single. one" was. Um, no. A large percentage of P2W games started P2W from day one. Why jump to inaccurate generalizations like that?

drwoody44b14_ESO

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

drwoody44b14_ESO wrote: »

svartorn wrote: »

Slippery slope is all these losers have in their garbage P2W arguments.

Because that argument actually holds merit.

Every p2w game. Every. Single. One. They all started stuff like this.

Time savers like insta skill lines? Inventory? This is just a start. Those of us old and smart enough have seen it enough times already.

They start out with minor stuff which that doesnt seem to bad. Fabois defend it to the death. Slowly, over time. Sales are great. More and more gets added. Next thing you know, they're selling crown crates with VMA weapons inside them.......but oh wait, the chance is so low though. Fanbois will defend it for that reason.

Want a prime example of this? Black Desert Online. Rift. Archage. We have sub games like WoW and FFXIV, both sub based games, adding MTX like leveling boosts. Wow adds mounts to their store which look amazing, while reskinning the same horse 8 times for an in game reward. The level boost by-passes the beginning gearing up process by giving you a full set of gear. FFXIVs only way to attain a 2 seat mount is from MTX. They also sell major crafting and economy advantages with the additional retainers (they store and sell you items, as well as go on missions for rare mats. They are the bank). Again, both sub based games.

They said what they wouldn't allow in the crown store and this doesn't violate that.

Want an even better example? Fallout 76.....which, guess what? Is owned by the same parent company. Guess what they used to say?

And there are actually people that defend the Fallout 76 BS. So its no surprise that fanbois will defend this as well.


People like you are the reason we have companies like EA and Activision.....who started exactly like this.

People have been talking like you for years in this forum. You are spinning your wheels. Calling people "fabois" [sic] doesn't help your argument any. Try better arguments instead of dismissive name-calling.

FO76 is irrelevant. Different game. Desperate failed game.

I've never played WoW, but are you saying you can pay to get max level, meta gear? Are you saying there are people who feel pressured to spend money so that they can get that gear? I have no problem with selling tokens to get alts to max level if you've already hit max level before. I have no problem with giving a set of underperforming gear that no one would ever use in endgame content. But giving meta gear sets for cash that normally require a lot of effort would be too much. No one is dominating in PvP or setting high scores in group content with garbage gear unless they are considerably better than the people with superior builds.

But these "next they're selling crown crates with VMA weapons" arguments are nonsense. That hasn't happened. Hypothetical arguments are obfuscation here. Lazy way to insert assertions that aren't happening. In fact, in the examples (which I appreciate) that you gave from other games, it doesn't even include an example analogous to adding VMA weapons into crown crates!

Edit: just noticed how wrong your "every. single. one" was. Um, no. A large percentage of P2W games started P2W from day one. Why jump to inaccurate generalizations like that?

A great example of the fanbois I was talking about.

FO76 is owned by the same company that owns this game. They have proven that they will milk you for every penny.

Yes. In Wow, you can pay to get max level, pre raid geared characters. You're argument proves that you're exactly the kind of person I was talking about. Also, wow pvp is scaled. So yes, you can buy a max level pvp ready character.

My VMA crown crates argument is actually not nonsense. Look at Black Desert. A game that made promises from before they even released the game that the MTX shop was cosmetic. They now outright sell items to bypass the negative effects of their gear upgrade system.

Also, fanboi isnt an insult. Its a fact and an actual definition. People who are extremely dedicated to a product that they outright refuse to view any negativity or criticism towards it. The fact that there is so many games that add p2w mechanics, the fact that the company that owns this game is ourgith adding p2w mechanics and going back on promises other another recent product.....all substantial evidence that this is them starting a slippery slope.....and fanbois refuse to listen to it. You're no different than flat earthers and anti vaxxers.

Also, your games adding p2w mechanics from the start. Guess what companies I listen own quite a few of them?

Inaya

drwoody44b14_ESO wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

drwoody44b14_ESO wrote: »

svartorn wrote: »

Slippery slope is all these losers have in their garbage P2W arguments.

Because that argument actually holds merit.

Every p2w game. Every. Single. One. They all started stuff like this.

Time savers like insta skill lines? Inventory? This is just a start. Those of us old and smart enough have seen it enough times already.

They start out with minor stuff which that doesnt seem to bad. Fabois defend it to the death. Slowly, over time. Sales are great. More and more gets added. Next thing you know, they're selling crown crates with VMA weapons inside them.......but oh wait, the chance is so low though. Fanbois will defend it for that reason.

Want a prime example of this? Black Desert Online. Rift. Archage. We have sub games like WoW and FFXIV, both sub based games, adding MTX like leveling boosts. Wow adds mounts to their store which look amazing, while reskinning the same horse 8 times for an in game reward. The level boost by-passes the beginning gearing up process by giving you a full set of gear. FFXIVs only way to attain a 2 seat mount is from MTX. They also sell major crafting and economy advantages with the additional retainers (they store and sell you items, as well as go on missions for rare mats. They are the bank). Again, both sub based games.

They said what they wouldn't allow in the crown store and this doesn't violate that.

Want an even better example? Fallout 76.....which, guess what? Is owned by the same parent company. Guess what they used to say?

And there are actually people that defend the Fallout 76 BS. So its no surprise that fanbois will defend this as well.


People like you are the reason we have companies like EA and Activision.....who started exactly like this.

People have been talking like you for years in this forum. You are spinning your wheels. Calling people "fabois" [sic] doesn't help your argument any. Try better arguments instead of dismissive name-calling.

FO76 is irrelevant. Different game. Desperate failed game.

I've never played WoW, but are you saying you can pay to get max level, meta gear? Are you saying there are people who feel pressured to spend money so that they can get that gear? I have no problem with selling tokens to get alts to max level if you've already hit max level before. I have no problem with giving a set of underperforming gear that no one would ever use in endgame content. But giving meta gear sets for cash that normally require a lot of effort would be too much. No one is dominating in PvP or setting high scores in group content with garbage gear unless they are considerably better than the people with superior builds.

But these "next they're selling crown crates with VMA weapons" arguments are nonsense. That hasn't happened. Hypothetical arguments are obfuscation here. Lazy way to insert assertions that aren't happening. In fact, in the examples (which I appreciate) that you gave from other games, it doesn't even include an example analogous to adding VMA weapons into crown crates!

Edit: just noticed how wrong your "every. single. one" was. Um, no. A large percentage of P2W games started P2W from day one. Why jump to inaccurate generalizations like that?

A great example of the fanbois I was talking about.

FO76 is owned by the same company that owns this game. They have proven that they will milk you for every penny.

Yes. In Wow, you can pay to get max level, pre raid geared characters. You're argument proves that you're exactly the kind of person I was talking about. Also, wow pvp is scaled. So yes, you can buy a max level pvp ready character.

My VMA crown crates argument is actually not nonsense. Look at Black Desert. A game that made promises from before they even released the game that the MTX shop was cosmetic. They now outright sell items to bypass the negative effects of their gear upgrade system.

Also, fanboi isnt an insult. Its a fact and an actual definition. People who are extremely dedicated to a product that they outright refuse to view any negativity or criticism towards it. The fact that there is so many games that add p2w mechanics, the fact that the company that owns this game is ourgith adding p2w mechanics and going back on promises other another recent product.....all substantial evidence that this is them starting a slippery slope.....and fanbois refuse to listen to it. You're no different than flat earthers and anti vaxxers.

Also, your games adding p2w mechanics from the start. Guess what companies I listen own quite a few of them?

Those boosted Wow characters are not given pre-raid gear and they are boosted 10 levels BELOW max. Everything is behind item level (ilvl) which you cannot buy and are not given.

I have a problem with games that require a sub having a cash store.

ESO is not sub based and syshards and skill lines do not become available for purchase until you have unlocked them on one character. They are there for those with mutliple alts who choose to spend some money in lieu of grinding it out for the umpteenth time.