Still being punished for having access to dlc dungeons.

Araneae6537

I enjoy many of the DLC dungeons! If you don’t like them, don’t queue random or group with someone of low level or who doesn’t have ESO+.

darthgummibear_ESO

Yeah...getting something like Moonhunter or Scalecaller trying to do a daily vet is more often than not a frustrating slog. There's a bunch of those dungeons which especially on Vet feel more like 4-man raids than dungeons. Then there's always the 4-digit dps that goes and hits the hardmode button at the end.

Even bosses like the final for City of Ash 2 are impossible with the numbers I frequently see in vet DLC dungeons.

This is going to sound incredibly elitist, but there's a lot of players who have no business being in a Vet dlc dungeon. Gating access to these dungeons by Champion Points alone was a mistake.

I hate to reference the dumpster fire known as WoW, but something like that game's proving grounds is desperately needed. A tiered difficulty solo instance to teach people things like target priority, what to avoid, what to bash/interrupt, etc...being unable to queue for certain dungeons on Veteran unless you had successfully completed the instance on a certain difficulty level. This instance should obviously be available to everyone regardless of what dungeon DLC they own.

AcadianPaladin

I'm not a big fan of 'random' anything. Pugs are random enough in terms of the group you get; no way I'm ever going to pug without knowing exactly which dungeon I'm queuing for. So I don't use the random dungeon finder at all. When I pug, it is for specific dungeons.

Rewards will never entice me to do things I don't enjoy. The fact that reward enticements seem necessary for DLC dungeons (along with the small number of players who do them) speaks volumes about DLC dungeons - and none of it good.

To the point however, those who are willing to queue for random non-DLC dungeons are indeed ironically penalized for having ESO+. For the privilege of having ESO+, they are subject to 'more random' than non subscribers. Given that eliminating DLC dungeons from random is as easy as canceling ESO+, it seems that an option to queue for randoms sans DLC would be appreciated, appropriate and probably good business sense.

adree

Raisin wrote: »

bla bla bla

not gonna read any trash talking bull eat here.
in fact this post just a test how bad zo$ destroyed some ppls free mind and make them stockholm syndrome victims.

its simple: once this company gets your real money for dlc content in general, most likely you'll be punished doin' random normal for this in compare to ppl who dont have dlc content purchased.

guys create a ticket with your issue, not a feedback. cos zo$ ignoring any feedback as we all know

Raisin

adree wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

bla bla bla

not gonna read any trash talking bull eat here.
in fact this post just a test how bad zo$ destroyed some ppls free mind and make them stockholm syndrome victims.

its simple: once this company gets your real money for dlc content in general, most likely you'll be punished doin' random normal for this in compare to ppl who dont have dlc content purchased.

guys create a ticket with your issue, not a feedback. cos zo$ ignoring any feedback as we all know

Well that went from on-topic discussion to mad rambling in 0.1 seconds...

Donny_Vito

adree wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

bla bla bla

not gonna read any trash talking bull eat here.
in fact this post just a test how bad zo$ destroyed some ppls free mind and make them stockholm syndrome victims.

its simple: once this company gets your real money for dlc content in general, most likely you'll be punished doin' random normal for this in compare to ppl who dont have dlc content purchased.

guys create a ticket with your issue, not a feedback. cos zo$ ignoring any feedback as we all know

Punished how? Please describe how this is being punished. You bought/have access to the DLC (either directly or through your ESO+), so playing it is considered punishment? I'm just not following the logic. If your intent is to not have as much fun as possible and run the same dungeons that you've run the past 4 years, then okay I guess the logic is sound there. Or if not being challenged is fun, then yes I guess that logic would hold up.

It's that...you can't have your cake and eat it, too. If you want to run a specific dungeon, then queue for a specific dungeon. If you want to run a RANDOM dungeon, then you're subject to all the dungeons available to you. It's incredibly simple, yet people continue to want to complain like they don't understand the potential outcomes.

MrGhosty

Soella wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Pro Tip #2: If you don’t want to be matched with random pugs, don’t use the dungeon finder. Period. Find a pre-made group and then queue into your specific or random dungeon.

You know that there are people who just too shy to spam zone chats, don't you? Or don't think it is appropriate to start group for the run if they cannot lead? And people who don't join guilds because they cannot make any commitments due to RL?

Sorry, but your advice is only valuable for people who - surprise! surprise! - don't need it and has zero value for everyone else.

typing "lf tank/dps/healer for X" is hardly going to break anyone, shy or no. There are plenty of guilds out there that don't have time requirements to join. Most dungeon people don't even speak in group chat except for explaining mechanics/checking people know mechanics.

I completely understand people preferring normal dungeons vs dlc dungeons when trying to check off their laundry list of dailies but those rewards offered for a random dungeon are there to get bodies in dungeons other people are trying to complete either for the story completion/skill point or running them for gear. If any change were to be made, I would support the change being added rewards for people who run normal+dlc dungeons.

Additionally, I would like to see an increasing penalty timer for people who continuously quit out of dungeons. Tempered of course with the knowledge that disconnects do happen. There is nothing more annoying than trying to do a dungeon and then having to wait because someone got an option they didn't like. If you don't want a random dlc dungeon, then don't queue random or do any of the workarounds listed above. I'm all for people being able to play what they like, and how they like but once that starts negatively impacting other players then that consideration is no longer applicable.

Something I would support would be some sort of a solo instance that would enable players to be taught mechanics, and have their dps/heal/tank skill tested. Requiring that before queuing for randoms would be a fair deal and would significantly help less experienced players.

Most players with "potato" dps don't want to be bad, they might just lack the resources/knowledge to improve. Adding more ways to encourage growth in those players without shunting the workload to veteran players would be useful.

Grimm13

DLC dungeons not only are more time consuming but have more mechanics that require fore knowledge to navigate properly.
By forcing ESO+ members to have DLC dungeons included as their random listing you are getting many more people ill prepared to run this content. It is a disservice to both those that do not want to run them and those that do want to have a competent group for the content.

Araneae6537

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Yeah...getting something like Moonhunter or Scalecaller trying to do a daily vet is more often than not a frustrating slog. There's a bunch of those dungeons which especially on Vet feel more like 4-man raids than dungeons. Then there's always the 4-digit dps that goes and hits the hardmode button at the end.

Even bosses like the final for City of Ash 2 are impossible with the numbers I frequently see in vet DLC dungeons.

This is going to sound incredibly elitist, but there's a lot of players who have no business being in a Vet dlc dungeon. Gating access to these dungeons by Champion Points alone was a mistake.

I hate to reference the dumpster fire known as WoW, but something like that game's proving grounds is desperately needed. A tiered difficulty solo instance to teach people things like target priority, what to avoid, what to bash/interrupt, etc...being unable to queue for certain dungeons on Veteran unless you had successfully completed the instance on a certain difficulty level. This instance should obviously be available to everyone regardless of what dungeon DLC they own.

Some sort of “proving ground” sounds like a good idea, actually. As say this as a relatively new player, still learning, but not actually sure where I stand in many metrics and what content I am truly ready for. I am going to be looking for add-ons to help with this, as well as to learn the timing of “light attack weaving” / “animation canceling”. I finally had that explained to me last night and why curiously alternating ability and light attack clicks was only cramping my hands!

FearlessOne_2014

My personally don't queue with Randos these days. But I do sympathize with the crowd that feels like they are being punished for having ESO+.

The simple solution, would be for ZOS to change to group finder to behave like GW2's looking for group tool. Then everyone can win!

But honestly the only advice I can give on this matter. Is to just not queue with random PUGs. The more random PUGs in your group the more chances for severe headaches.

GeorgeBlack

People never run out of ways to feel victimized and offended for the last few years, but I still get surprised

Araneae6537

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

My personally don't queue with Randos these days. But I do sympathize with the crowd that feels like they are being punished for having ESO+.

The simple solution, would be for ZOS to change to group finder to behave like GW2's looking for group tool. Then everyone can win!

But honestly the only advice I can give on this matter. Is to just not queue with random PUGs. The more random PUGs in your group the more chances for severe headaches.

Ugh, I did not like GW2’s LFG tool — sooo many categories and you had no option to just say you wanted to a dungeon, any dungeon, for instance (and no port! less of an issue now with the teleport device but someone still has to be there and hopefully you can just do the dungeon and not some lengthy world event first). The only plus side is that you could specify the nature of the group’s goal (such as speed-run, watch all cutscenes, etc.) or the requirements for joining, which could get to be obnoxious, but better to know that upfront than to join and be kicked.

CassandraGemini

thorwyn wrote: »

I think the point being made is that some ESO+ subscribers want to subscribe but not have the 'advantage' of being randomly shunted into, say, vMHK when they're only comfortable with vCOA 2. So they are capable vet players who know the mechanics of regular dungeons and are perfectly accomplished there, but aren't ready for or don't want to do vet DLC dungeons.

No, OP's point was about random normal as you can see in the first post. Veteran dungeons are a completely different story. I fail to see a scenario, where queueing into a random veteran dungeon makes any sense whatsoever. So my point still stands: Running DLC dungeons on normal is not that difficult. Everyone can do them.

Sorry, but that's just not true. I'm going to assume you're on PC, which of course makes typing a few instructions in chat about how to deal with mechanics much easier. On console though, this becomes a whole different issue, unless you happen to have a keyboard attached. Most people don't however, so if you want to tell people, who have no idea what to do in a DLC dungeon, what is expected of them, it will take you minutes of fiddling with the controller until you have finalized your message. Time that you spend idling, while the others probably have no idea what you're trying to do and keep running at the boss or whatever and wiping in the process. Or, if you start out by just quickly typing that you're going to explain the mechanics, most people are so impatient, they're not going to wait for it - they'd rather keep doing what's clearly not working, hoping that for whatever reason it will this time.

So, TLDR: No, not everyone can just do a random normal DLC dungeon (especially since they become available with level 45, just imagine a new player who has only done the vanilla dungeons before and then all of a sudden just gets thrown into one of these), and having them in the random dungeon finder with no way to opt out of it as a subscriber is nothing but a really bad idea and a recipe for frustration.

DaveMoeDee

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

I believe the whole point of Random Dungeons is actually to help people find warm bodies for the times they want to run a DLC Dungeon (or any dungeon).

But people are really queueing for the REWARDS, not to help other people, and that is part of the problem. When they are focussed on REWARD they look for the easiest route -- which means avoiding DLC or difficult dungeons (such as by queuing with a lowbie).

Of course just because this is how many MMOs do it, doesn't mean it needs to be this way.
Undaunted quests are one way to populate the queue, but I think a lot of people skip tough dungeons with those too, so it's probably not working out so well.
And just the fact that people are using the queue means simply asking in zone or guild or friend list doesn't work well enough.

So in what other way can the queue be populated so that people who need to do a particular dungeon can get it done?

Maybe remove ALL queue-related rewards? That way, people have to assemble their own teams to get their Monster Helms or gear sets. Then make it easier to get the related Monster shoulders since grinding Undaunted Keys won't be a thing anymore.
Enable solo-dungeoneering or small-party scaling? You just know people are going to complain about this supposedly being an MMO.

Maybe we should look at games like Path of Exile where questing and combat is solo but there's still a community hub for the Multiplayer parts -- trading and socializing.

As I always mention, but throwing people doing randoms for XP into groups with people queuing for DLC dungeons, they are often making it a bad experience for everyone. I hate when I queue for a vDLC pledge and I get people asking if we want to switch to FG. Or people who just bail off the bat. I'd rather wait and manage my inventory/guild store listings.

That being said, most of my initial DLC clears were as random vet dungeons. When I finally did one with a pre-formed group as part of being screened to tank in a trials guild, the vDLC dungeon was absurdly easy.

FierceSam

ErinM31 wrote: »

I enjoy many of the DLC dungeons! If you don’t like them, don’t queue random or group with someone of low level or who doesn’t have ESO+.

While I understand what you’re saying, this isn’t a solution for the single player who has subbed to ESO+ because they like the game, but isn’t ready for DLC dungeons.

They should not be dumped into some of the most difficult content in the game simply because they want to support the game they enjoy. They should at least have the same option that non-subscribers have, namely to be exempt from doing DLC content.

While access to DLC content is a real bonus to some subscribers, it’s a massive disincentive to many.

Araneae6537

FierceSam wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

I enjoy many of the DLC dungeons! If you don’t like them, don’t queue random or group with someone of low level or who doesn’t have ESO+.

While I understand what you’re saying, this isn’t a solution for the single player who has subbed to ESO+ because they like the game, but isn’t ready for DLC dungeons.

They should not be dumped into some of the most difficult content in the game simply because they want to support the game they enjoy. They should at least have the same option that non-subscribers have, namely to be exempt from doing DLC content.

While access to DLC content is a real bonus to some subscribers, it’s a massive disincentive to many.

True, it would make sense for subscribing to give you more options. I’ve been fortunate in most of my DLC dungeon experiences to have an experienced player patient and willing to explain mechanics and/or other inexperienced players willing to learn and work together, which has made them positive experiences for me.

Having ESO+ should give you the option for queuing for DLC dungeons (either instead or in addition to base game), perhaps for additional reward.

Dusk_Coven

Suppose they completely removed queue-related rewards. No random normal reward, no Undaunted quests (you'ld have to get your Transmutes and Shoulders some other way of course).
Would the people remaining in the queue be the ones who actually like to do dungeons, or would the queue just be empty.

Offering someone a reward to do something they don't like just means they will subvert the process to get the reward. This is probably the real reason you have fake tanks, fake heals, porting from random normal to a pledge/FG1 (before it got fixed), etcetera.
FFXIV has both a group finder AND a party finder -- where you basically advertise for a particular activity AND you can specify composition of the team (roles/level/item level/etcetera).

Delpi

This is the main reason why I don't sub.

Raisin

CassandraGemini wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

I think the point being made is that some ESO+ subscribers want to subscribe but not have the 'advantage' of being randomly shunted into, say, vMHK when they're only comfortable with vCOA 2. So they are capable vet players who know the mechanics of regular dungeons and are perfectly accomplished there, but aren't ready for or don't want to do vet DLC dungeons.

No, OP's point was about random normal as you can see in the first post. Veteran dungeons are a completely different story. I fail to see a scenario, where queueing into a random veteran dungeon makes any sense whatsoever. So my point still stands: Running DLC dungeons on normal is not that difficult. Everyone can do them.

So, TLDR: No, not everyone can just do a random normal DLC dungeon (especially since they become available with level 45, just imagine a new player who has only done the vanilla dungeons before and then all of a sudden just gets thrown into one of these), and having them in the random dungeon finder with no way to opt out of it as a subscriber is nothing but a really bad idea and a recipe for frustration.

I do wanna say that the last issue you bring up is related to ESO doing a terrible job of teaching players. Being a level 45 player that has done vanilla dungeons and then enters a DLC one SHOULD be a natural progression of things, and that player in theory is absolutely capable of performing mechanics. The game is just not preparing people -- players shouldn't have to rely on outside sources and looking at guides to understand basic gameplay.
And that is, as you said, only for someone who has experience with vanilla dungeons. You wait until later to do dungeons and suddenly you are in a DLC dungeon as your first and you have no idea how anything works. Because while there are the undaunted quests, there are no guarantees that you have done that. ESO doesn't do a good job really teaching you how to dungeon. And while that may be a bit off topic, that is in the end why we get to the point where people struggle with DLC content, players get annoyed at least each other's skill level... And while I won't say there aren't people who just don't enjoy that content, I do think that it also contributes to why some people don't like DLC dungeons.

But I think that's a matter of leading people into this content properly, not of continuing to send them into unknown territory unprepared and give them the option 'just don't look at it if it scares you'. (Again, not saying we have to force anyone to like them or anything.) But the gap that exists between vanilla and DLC dungeons shouldn't exist and is what alienates people I think. Those two categories shouldn't be so damn black and white.

That said, I'm still curious what people think about the fact that if there is a random queue that lets people opt out of DLC dungeons, I feel like there should be one that does the opposite, eliminating base game dungeons. For me that's a point where I feel like we are choosing the dungeons for our random pool, and how is it fair towards people whose dislikes aren't as easily categorized as vanilla vs DLC?

Jhalin

Tbh I feel like it’s me and maybe 10 other people who actually purchase dungeon DLCs. I genuinely enjoy them (besides MHK, it’s just annoying at the end).

I’ve been having fun doing the HMs of the older DLCs. It’s the only source of challenge in the game honestly.

idk

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

But why would i drag random people through long boring dlc, try to teach them mechanics, see them completely ignore what is writen and fail mechanics anyway, all that and more for the same reward as i would get for a short 5 minute normal no mechanic braindead dungeon?

Don’t want to drag randoms through a DLC dungeon?

No problem.

Pro Tip #2: If you don’t want to be matched with random pugs, don’t use the dungeon finder. Period. Find a pre-made group and then queue into your specific or random dungeon.

The truth here rings loudly. Total random groups are sub par most of the time vs pre made groups. That is pretty much the case in any game with a GF. I pretty much look at these threads as someone is complaining because they did not form their own group/get into one someone was forming.

Araneae6537

Raisin wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

I think the point being made is that some ESO+ subscribers want to subscribe but not have the 'advantage' of being randomly shunted into, say, vMHK when they're only comfortable with vCOA 2. So they are capable vet players who know the mechanics of regular dungeons and are perfectly accomplished there, but aren't ready for or don't want to do vet DLC dungeons.

No, OP's point was about random normal as you can see in the first post. Veteran dungeons are a completely different story. I fail to see a scenario, where queueing into a random veteran dungeon makes any sense whatsoever. So my point still stands: Running DLC dungeons on normal is not that difficult. Everyone can do them.

So, TLDR: No, not everyone can just do a random normal DLC dungeon (especially since they become available with level 45, just imagine a new player who has only done the vanilla dungeons before and then all of a sudden just gets thrown into one of these), and having them in the random dungeon finder with no way to opt out of it as a subscriber is nothing but a really bad idea and a recipe for frustration.

I do wanna say that the last issue you bring up is related to ESO doing a terrible job of teaching players. Being a level 45 player that has done vanilla dungeons and then enters a DLC one SHOULD be a natural progression of things, and that player in theory is absolutely capable of performing mechanics. The game is just not preparing people -- players shouldn't have to rely on outside sources and looking at guides to understand basic gameplay.
And that is, as you said, only for someone who has experience with vanilla dungeons. You wait until later to do dungeons and suddenly you are in a DLC dungeon as your first and you have no idea how anything works. Because while there are the undaunted quests, there are no guarantees that you have done that. ESO doesn't do a good job really teaching you how to dungeon. And while that may be a bit off topic, that is in the end why we get to the point where people struggle with DLC content, players get annoyed at least each other's skill level... And while I won't say there aren't people who just don't enjoy that content, I do think that it also contributes to why some people don't like DLC dungeons.

But I think that's a matter of leading people into this content properly, not of continuing to send them into unknown territory unprepared and give them the option 'just don't look at it if it scares you'. (Again, not saying we have to force anyone to like them or anything.)

Out of curiosity, is there any MMORPG that does this? I actually feel that ESO does a decent job of this and I have been able to figure out dungeon mechanics through trial-and-error. I feel that SWTOR and GW2 were worse in this regard, with more instances of mechanics — especially one-shot mechanics — that you’d have to learn elsewhere (or have a VERY high tolerance for repeated trial-error-death), not in every dungeon/fractal/flashpoint but definitely in harder ones that would the equivalent of DLC dungeons. It could surely be improved even in ESO though, perhaps with needing to do easier dungeons to unlock more advanced ones (but just one ONE character for the account), at least to access them through group finder. People should still have the option to do more difficult content with players will to take on the challenge or teach/carry them.

idk

ErinM31 wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

I think the point being made is that some ESO+ subscribers want to subscribe but not have the 'advantage' of being randomly shunted into, say, vMHK when they're only comfortable with vCOA 2. So they are capable vet players who know the mechanics of regular dungeons and are perfectly accomplished there, but aren't ready for or don't want to do vet DLC dungeons.

No, OP's point was about random normal as you can see in the first post. Veteran dungeons are a completely different story. I fail to see a scenario, where queueing into a random veteran dungeon makes any sense whatsoever. So my point still stands: Running DLC dungeons on normal is not that difficult. Everyone can do them.

So, TLDR: No, not everyone can just do a random normal DLC dungeon (especially since they become available with level 45, just imagine a new player who has only done the vanilla dungeons before and then all of a sudden just gets thrown into one of these), and having them in the random dungeon finder with no way to opt out of it as a subscriber is nothing but a really bad idea and a recipe for frustration.

I do wanna say that the last issue you bring up is related to ESO doing a terrible job of teaching players. Being a level 45 player that has done vanilla dungeons and then enters a DLC one SHOULD be a natural progression of things, and that player in theory is absolutely capable of performing mechanics. The game is just not preparing people -- players shouldn't have to rely on outside sources and looking at guides to understand basic gameplay.
And that is, as you said, only for someone who has experience with vanilla dungeons. You wait until later to do dungeons and suddenly you are in a DLC dungeon as your first and you have no idea how anything works. Because while there are the undaunted quests, there are no guarantees that you have done that. ESO doesn't do a good job really teaching you how to dungeon. And while that may be a bit off topic, that is in the end why we get to the point where people struggle with DLC content, players get annoyed at least each other's skill level... And while I won't say there aren't people who just don't enjoy that content, I do think that it also contributes to why some people don't like DLC dungeons.

But I think that's a matter of leading people into this content properly, not of continuing to send them into unknown territory unprepared and give them the option 'just don't look at it if it scares you'. (Again, not saying we have to force anyone to like them or anything.)

Out of curiosity, is there any MMORPG that does this? I actually feel that ESO does a decent job of this and I have been able to figure out dungeon mechanics through trial-and-error. I feel that SWTOR and GW2 were worse in this regard, with more instances of mechanics — especially one-shot mechanics — that you’d have to learn elsewhere (or have a VERY high tolerance for repeated trial-error-death), not in every dungeon/fractal/flashpoint but definitely in harder ones that would the equivalent of DLC dungeons. It could surely be improved even in ESO though, perhaps with needing to do easier dungeons to unlock more advanced ones (but just one ONE character for the account), at least to access them through group finder. People should still have the option to do more difficult content with players will to take on the challenge or teach/carry them.

Pretty much you are correct that the easier version of dungeons in other MMORPGs that are more recent and have been a major game during their time do not do much to prepare their player base for the more challenging versions or more challenging content.

So yea, ESO does not, but that is pretty much normal these days.

It has seemed to be the smartest approach in MMORPGs to run with premade groups vs complete random groups to begin with. That really seems to be what people complain about when they start these threads.

CassandraGemini

Raisin wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

I think the point being made is that some ESO+ subscribers want to subscribe but not have the 'advantage' of being randomly shunted into, say, vMHK when they're only comfortable with vCOA 2. So they are capable vet players who know the mechanics of regular dungeons and are perfectly accomplished there, but aren't ready for or don't want to do vet DLC dungeons.

No, OP's point was about random normal as you can see in the first post. Veteran dungeons are a completely different story. I fail to see a scenario, where queueing into a random veteran dungeon makes any sense whatsoever. So my point still stands: Running DLC dungeons on normal is not that difficult. Everyone can do them.

So, TLDR: No, not everyone can just do a random normal DLC dungeon (especially since they become available with level 45, just imagine a new player who has only done the vanilla dungeons before and then all of a sudden just gets thrown into one of these), and having them in the random dungeon finder with no way to opt out of it as a subscriber is nothing but a really bad idea and a recipe for frustration.

I do wanna say that the last issue you bring up is related to ESO doing a terrible job of teaching players. Being a level 45 player that has done vanilla dungeons and then enters a DLC one SHOULD be a natural progression of things, and that player in theory is absolutely capable of performing mechanics. The game is just not preparing people -- players shouldn't have to rely on outside sources and looking at guides to understand basic gameplay.
And that is, as you said, only for someone who has experience with vanilla dungeons. You wait until later to do dungeons and suddenly you are in a DLC dungeon as your first and you have no idea how anything works.

Exactly. I mean, imagine someone playing the game pretty much on their own for a while, levelling up, doing quests, other overland stuff, and so on. Then at some point they decide to try out the dungeons and, since they don't really know what that's all about, they just choose a random - and end up in a DLC dungeon right away. I can totally see how that would stop them from ever wanting to try dungeons ever again through no fault of their own, not only because they'd be naturally put off by the dungeon and the perceived difficulty in itself, but also because there's a high probability that they wouldn't exactly be met with nothing but patience and kind words from the rest of the PUG. That they'd be kicked and/or berated for lack of ability seems more likely to me.
Which is the thing I don't get. This has been an issue that has been brought up for some time, and why ZOS wouldn't try to interest more people in their DLC content, instead of making them want to avoid it for different reasons, really is beyond me.

LucyferLightbringer

I really don't know if people dont understand or simply dont want to understand. It is time/reward issue.
Lets take 2 people. Person A subscriber with access to all dungeons. Person B just base game no dlc dungeons access.
Person A and person B want to acquire random daily dungeon reward, so they queue...

Worst case scenario:
Person A gets stuck in MHK/BRF (tbh insert whatever long draging, mechanics filled dlc dungeon) he spends there 40+ minutes
Person B gets city of ash 2, it takes them around 20 minutes to finish.

Both person A and person B get the same reward. That is what is not ok, this is why i feel like i get punished for having access to dlc dungeons. More work, more time, same reward, now multiply it by 9 alts...

Canned_Apples

i love dlc dungeons and love them even more when I get paired with low levels that can barely pull 5k damage and never listen.
It adds a whole new level of difficulty. Clearly what was intended.

I'd queue as a healer tank and dps if I could. I end up doing all three anyways.

Hexquisite

Maybe I was just lucky...as a healer I got the new DLC for randon normal quite a bit, and I have been surprised how fast these went. I was doing randoms all day during the event as a way to spice up the plunder skull farm. I stay away from Random Vet though.

Kali_Despoine

I only sub for craft bag. I don't want the DLC is what I'm seeing from OP and many others

I love to PUG dungeons
I love PUG DLC as well
Unless I'm leveling an alt I don't need the rewards
I log in, clear inventory and queue right up
sure there are those dungeons I hope I don't get but every time I run them they get easier and easier
Sometimes I get a bad group sometimes I get a group and we no death and other feats without trying
No matter what I still run them for 15 minutes, unless fake tank then I (try) dissolve the group so no penalty.

You have 15 minute time out, give it a go. Let them know your a greenhorn if you don't know mechanics.

Kali_Despoine

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

I really don't know if people dont understand or simply dont want to understand. It is time/reward issue.

Dear @LucyferLightbringer,
it seems to me that you only think of yourself. What about the THREE people you left standing there all because you ain't got time for that s....? Do you think they got time for that?
Here is some advice from my grandpa "vote with your wallet" so stop the sub, make own guild, call guild the crafting bag, get over 50 people to join and you will never have to worry about those long time consuming, low paying DLC dungeons ever again.

yours truly.
all the people you left hanging

Bobby_V_Rockit

I sub for the DLC zones and craft bag, not just the bag. Would love to “opt-out” of the DLC dungeons in the menu where you accept the quests for each.

A simple “thanks but no thanks” would help everyone, no more 15 minute penalties for me (I bail as soon as it pops) and no extended waits for legit players who want to run them.