Still being punished for having access to dlc dungeons.

LucyferLightbringer

I really dont want to be an ass, and force groups to reform, but i am beyond sick and tired of being punished for having access to dlc dungeons. People who are not subscribed and do not have access to dlc dungeons don't have to deal with those long drags in their random daily, why do i have to? Why they get to run easy 5 minute normal dungeon while i keep geting hit with long and tedious dlc ones? I left random daily dungeon group twice so far, in the process of going through my second cooldown punishment. I am a tank so i really dont mind as queue is instant and i have loads of time to do other things while i wait out my punishments. I just feel bad for people i abandon forcing them to reform, cant imagine those customers are having good experience when it happens.

LucyferLightbringer

3rd dlc dungeon in a row. Nice going ZOS, time to farm more skulls as i wait out punishment

BattleAxe

A thought just run the dungeon check out the sets and sell junk can make decent gold farming junk loot

SteveCampsOut

Cancel! It's the smart way to send a message.

Dusk_Coven

I believe the whole point of Random Dungeons is actually to help people find warm bodies for the times they want to run a DLC Dungeon (or any dungeon).

But people are really queueing for the REWARDS, not to help other people, and that is part of the problem. When they are focussed on REWARD they look for the easiest route -- which means avoiding DLC or difficult dungeons (such as by queuing with a lowbie).

Of course just because this is how many MMOs do it, doesn't mean it needs to be this way.
Undaunted quests are one way to populate the queue, but I think a lot of people skip tough dungeons with those too, so it's probably not working out so well.
And just the fact that people are using the queue means simply asking in zone or guild or friend list doesn't work well enough.

So in what other way can the queue be populated so that people who need to do a particular dungeon can get it done?

Maybe remove ALL queue-related rewards? That way, people have to assemble their own teams to get their Monster Helms or gear sets. Then make it easier to get the related Monster shoulders since grinding Undaunted Keys won't be a thing anymore.
Enable solo-dungeoneering or small-party scaling? You just know people are going to complain about this supposedly being an MMO.

Maybe we should look at games like Path of Exile where questing and combat is solo but there's still a community hub for the Multiplayer parts -- trading and socializing.

BattleAxe

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

I believe the whole point of Random Dungeons is actually to help people find warm bodies for the times they want to run a DLC Dungeon (or any dungeon).

But people are really queueing for the REWARDS, not to help other people, and that is part of the problem. When they are focussed on REWARD they look for the easiest route -- which means avoiding DLC or difficult dungeons (such as by queuing with a lowbie).

Of course just because this is how many MMOs do it, doesn't mean it needs to be this way.
Undaunted quests are one way to populate the queue, but I think a lot of people skip tough dungeons with those too, so it's probably not working out so well.
And just the fact that people are using the queue means simply asking in zone or guild or friend list doesn't work well enough.

So in what other way can the queue be populated so that people who need to do a particular dungeon can get it done?

Maybe remove ALL queue-related rewards? That way, people have to assemble their own teams to get their Monster Helms or gear sets. Then make it easier to get the related Monster shoulders since grinding Undaunted Keys won't be a thing anymore.

Better idea leave rewards and give even more for running the dlcs

Dusk_Coven

BattleAxe wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

I believe the whole point of Random Dungeons is actually to help people find warm bodies for the times they want to run a DLC Dungeon (or any dungeon).

But people are really queueing for the REWARDS, not to help other people, and that is part of the problem. When they are focussed on REWARD they look for the easiest route -- which means avoiding DLC or difficult dungeons (such as by queuing with a lowbie).

Of course just because this is how many MMOs do it, doesn't mean it needs to be this way.
Undaunted quests are one way to populate the queue, but I think a lot of people skip tough dungeons with those too, so it's probably not working out so well.
And just the fact that people are using the queue means simply asking in zone or guild or friend list doesn't work well enough.

So in what other way can the queue be populated so that people who need to do a particular dungeon can get it done?

Maybe remove ALL queue-related rewards? That way, people have to assemble their own teams to get their Monster Helms or gear sets. Then make it easier to get the related Monster shoulders since grinding Undaunted Keys won't be a thing anymore.

Better idea leave rewards and give even more for running the dlcs

You know what's gonna happen right? They'll just figure out a way to run only the easiest DLC. But I suppose at least one or two DLC dungeons will at least be on the radar.

Austacker

This issue is a symptom of the bigger problem.

DLC Dungeons just suck.

They are not casual friendly.

Even 'Veteran' Vanilla dungeons are casual friendly, the DLC dungeons are generally longer, harder and offer the same level of reward for time spent.

Vet level DLC dungeons are PUG breakers - simple.

For me, I just quit if I random queue into a DLC Vet Dungeon.

Not because I'm selfish, but because the vast majority of the time the effort isn't worth it and PUG groups will majority of the time fail the content anyway.

I find that the 15 minute cooldown 'punishment' for opting out of doing a DLC Random Dungeon is 'less' punishment than trying to stick with it.

Let that sink in for a moment.

Ironically, I actually REGRET buying the DLC this game offers simply because of this situation.

Additionally, I'd offer a strong warning to anyone out there looking to buy Dungeon DLC content to be aware of what we have to contend with now for having bought it.

BattleAxe

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

show previous quotes

BattleAxe wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

I believe the whole point of Random Dungeons is actually to help people find warm bodies for the times they want to run a DLC Dungeon (or any dungeon).

But people are really queueing for the REWARDS, not to help other people, and that is part of the problem. When they are focussed on REWARD they look for the easiest route -- which means avoiding DLC or difficult dungeons (such as by queuing with a lowbie).

Of course just because this is how many MMOs do it, doesn't mean it needs to be this way.
Undaunted quests are one way to populate the queue, but I think a lot of people skip tough dungeons with those too, so it's probably not working out so well.
And just the fact that people are using the queue means simply asking in zone or guild or friend list doesn't work well enough.

So in what other way can the queue be populated so that people who need to do a particular dungeon can get it done?

Maybe remove ALL queue-related rewards? That way, people have to assemble their own teams to get their Monster Helms or gear sets. Then make it easier to get the related Monster shoulders since grinding Undaunted Keys won't be a thing anymore.

Better idea leave rewards and give even more for running the dlcs

You know what's gonna happen right? They'll just figure out a way to run only the easiest DLC. But I suppose at least one or two DLC dungeons will at least be on the radar.

Rewards scaled off dungeons difficulty but this would require devs to rate dungeons into difficulty categories

Bobby_V_Rockit

Its why I dont do the random anymore. I hate the DLC’s, dont want them, didnt buy them, wont run them. Tired of paying the DLC dungeon tax honestly

LadyNalcarya

Solution: group with a lvl10 char, get a guaranteed Fungal Grotto/Banished Cells/Spindle as your random normal.

Taleof2Cities

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

3rd dlc dungeon in a row. Nice going ZOS, time to farm more skulls as i wait out punishment

I think you forgot random means RANDOM, @LucyferLightbringer ... a selection from all available choices (including the DLC ones).

Don’t want a DLC dungeon?

No problem.

Pro Tip: Instead of choosing ‘random normal’ or ‘random veteran’ in the Dungeon finder UI, select ‘specific dungeons’. Then, check every one of the non-DLC dungeons from the specific dungeon list. When finished, click “join queue” to activate the dungeon finder ... which will then search all non-DLC dungeons for grouping.

You’re welcome.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

show previous quotes

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

3rd dlc dungeon in a row. Nice going ZOS, time to farm more skulls as i wait out punishment

I think you forgot random means RANDOM, @LucyferLightbringer ... a selection from all available dungeons (including the DLC ones).

Don’t want a DLC dungeon?

No problem.

Pro Tip: Instead of choosing ‘random normal’ or ‘random veteran’ in the Dungeon finder UI, select ‘specific dungeons’. Then, check every one of the non-DLC dungeons from the specific dungeon list. When finished, click “join queue” to activate the dungeon finder ... which will then search all non-DLC dungeons for grouping.

You’re welcome.

So why does a non-subscriber get the random bonus and a subscriber does not? Thats the point

Dusk_Coven

BattleAxe wrote: »

Rewards scaled off dungeons difficulty but this would require devs to rate dungeons into difficulty categories

Yes but what's Fungal Grotto 1 reward gonna be?
Besides, the issue isn't rewards -- and focussing on rewards is just missing the point, IMO.
The issue is people who need dungeon X done for whatever reason, and they need a team to do it.
What rewards do is populate the queue even when people don't actually want to do the content.

The experience of the dungeon combined with the loot you get from the dungeon itself should be enough incentive to want to do the dungeon. That any game has to add extra incentives to make content popular suggests that content actually isn't popular/fun.

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Its why I dont do the random anymore. I hate the DLC’s, dont want them, didnt buy them, wont run them. Tired of paying the DLC dungeon tax honestly

Except now they're tying them into the story and even Events. Want to see the story? Want your Event Tickets? Get the Dungeon DLC.
There's another dragon event later this year. You'll need to kill dragons in one of the DLC dungeons to get one of the two daily tickets.

LucyferLightbringer

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

show previous quotes

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

3rd dlc dungeon in a row. Nice going ZOS, time to farm more skulls as i wait out punishment

I think you forgot random means RANDOM, @LucyferLightbringer ... a selection from all available choices (including the DLC ones).

Don’t want a DLC dungeon?

No problem.

Pro Tip: Instead of choosing ‘random normal’ or ‘random veteran’ in the Dungeon finder UI, select ‘specific dungeons’. Then, check every one of the non-DLC dungeons from the specific dungeon list. When finished, click “join queue” to activate the dungeon finder ... which will then search all non-DLC dungeons for grouping.

You’re welcome.

I think you miss the point. I want the daily random reward, i dont want to work for it harder than someone with no access to dlc would have to. I do not pay to be punished by having to do extra work and waste more time for same reward.

ArchMikem

So let me get this straight. You're insta leaving your PuGs whenever you get a DLC Dungeon for the random, just because you don't want to run them. Even though you just admitted you have "plenty of time to wait out the penalty". Why don't you just use that time you claim you have, to just run the Dungeon? If the group is a good composition of DDs and a Healer, and you are a legit Tank, then really you're screwing those people out of a run for no good reason. How is it punishing you?

Aliyavana

I hate getting a post imp city dlc dungeon. Those are instant leave.

Taleof2Cities

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

show previous quotes

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

3rd dlc dungeon in a row. Nice going ZOS, time to farm more skulls as i wait out punishment

I think you forgot random means RANDOM, @LucyferLightbringer ... a selection from all available choices (including the DLC ones).

Don’t want a DLC dungeon?

No problem.

Pro Tip: Instead of choosing ‘random normal’ or ‘random veteran’ in the Dungeon finder UI, select ‘specific dungeons’. Then, check every one of the non-DLC dungeons from the specific dungeon list. When finished, click “join queue” to activate the dungeon finder ... which will then search all non-DLC dungeons for grouping.

You’re welcome.

I think you miss the point. I want the daily random reward, i dont want to work for it harder than someone with no access to dlc would have to. I do not pay to be punished by having to do extra work and waste more time for same reward.

You not wanting to do a RANDOM dungeon isn’t anyone else’s problem ... especially not ZOS’s.

The reward is to incentivize getting full groups faster ... not punish players who happen to own ESO+.

Raisin

You don't get the reward for something if you don't do the thing. Random means there is a risk and taking that risk is what you get the reward for. It is NOT a daily login reward that you are just simply entitled to.
If it doesn't appeal to you you have the choice not to do it, same as running a random BG or any other features that you personally don't enjoy.

Yes, for the sake of avoiding this discussion I do think ESO+ members should have the option of declining getting the DLC -- perhaps instead of automatically applying it you can buy it for 0 crowns in the crownstore with ESO+ ? That way if you genuinely hate DLC dungeons that much you can refuse them, but you don't get to switch back and forth. If you run them on your own time, you don't get to kick them out of your random dungeon draw pool.

LucyferLightbringer

If i had no access to dlc dungeons i could do random dungeon daily way easier and faster. People who do not give ZOS cash have it easier than people who do. I am legit tank and i have achievements to prove it. But why would i drag random people through long boring dlc, try to teach them mechanics, see them completely ignore what is writen and fail mechanics anyway, all that and more for the same reward as i would get for a short 5 minute normal no mechanic braindead dungeon?

LucyferLightbringer

Raisin wrote: »

You don't get the reward for something if you don't do the thing. Random means there is a risk and taking that risk is what you get the reward for. It is NOT a daily login reward that you are just simply entitled to.
If it doesn't appeal to you you have the choice not to do it, same as running a random BG or any other features that you personally don't enjoy.

Yes, for the sake of avoiding this discussion I do think ESO+ members should have the option of declining getting the DLC -- perhaps instead of automatically applying it you can buy it for 0 crowns in the crownstore with ESO+ ? That way if you genuinely hate DLC dungeons that much you can refuse them, but you don't get to switch back and forth. If you run them on your own time, you don't get to kick them out of your random dungeon draw pool.

Why is my risk bigger than the risk of someone with no dlc access yet reward is the same?

Dusk_Coven

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Why is my risk bigger than the risk of someone with no dlc access yet reward is the same?

I wouldn't be surprised if the queue were coded such that the persons with the smallest range of eligible dungeons are drawn first to fill parties -- that means non-DLC-access people getting matched first and obviously to non-DLC-dungeon requests. Because if they don't do that, they might get stuck in a situation where people who are waiting for a particular DLC dungeon (you know, maybe to get their Monster Helm? dungeon set?) never get matched because the persons left in the queue don't qualify because they don't have the DLC.

So having DLC access necessarily makes your risk higher of getting a DLC dungeon. It might even guarantee it under certain conditions.
Unfortunately it would also be the correct group finder heuristic because the whole idea of group finder is to match people needing something with people who are either needing the same thing, or theoretically willing to do it (and qualify to do it).

Raisin

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

If i had no access to dlc dungeons i could do random dungeon daily way easier and faster. People who do not give ZOS cash have it easier than people who do. I am legit tank and i have achievements to prove it. But why would i drag random people through long boring dlc, try to teach them mechanics, see them completely ignore what is writen and fail mechanics anyway, all that and more for the same reward as i would get for a short 5 minute normal no mechanic braindead dungeon?

Because it's RANDOM and you don't get to CHOOSE getting the option you prefer. Random dungeon is NOT about giving you your favorite dungeon experience. It is a grab bag and you get something nice for accepting that you may have to run content you don't enjoy with people who make it difficult. Getting a reward for a "short 5 minute normal" isn't the standard, it's a very lucky draw (as will happen in a randomizer), and again not something you are entitled to.
People who can't get ESO+ but dislike the painfully boring base game dungeons do not have it easier than you. The fact that they don't enjoy most of the content random provides for them in this case, just as with you, is not on ZOS' shoulders. There's always something you won't enjoy in a random pool. You still have the chance to get the dungeons you like.
TBH how do you think it feels when I queue for random and get put into one of those painful base-game dungeons that are nothing but bland boring grind, feel like they drone on forever, when I could play something actually stimulating and FUN? What if I do it with a full 4man group (meaning one person is guaranteed to get cooldown) and we need to decide whether we wanna suffer through it or wait to try again? You think I like it? No. But it's daily random and you get what you get. You leave when you get DLC. When it was still possible to abuse the random system and port into a different dungeon, anybody I ran with would leave FG1 and port into something enjoyable to get the bonus -- it wasn't worth running that one again no matter how short. This is a universal experience among people because random does not cater to our tastes. It is not supposed to.

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

show previous quotes

Raisin wrote: »

You don't get the reward for something if you don't do the thing. Random means there is a risk and taking that risk is what you get the reward for. It is NOT a daily login reward that you are just simply entitled to.
If it doesn't appeal to you you have the choice not to do it, same as running a random BG or any other features that you personally don't enjoy.

Yes, for the sake of avoiding this discussion I do think ESO+ members should have the option of declining getting the DLC -- perhaps instead of automatically applying it you can buy it for 0 crowns in the crownstore with ESO+ ? That way if you genuinely hate DLC dungeons that much you can refuse them, but you don't get to switch back and forth. If you run them on your own time, you don't get to kick them out of your random dungeon draw pool.

Why is my risk bigger than the risk of someone with no dlc access yet reward is the same?

See above. Your risk isn't bigger because you have ESO+, and it's not bigger compared to people who don't have it. Your risk is bigger because you dislike a lot of the dungeons available to you, and it is only bigger in comparison to someone who dislikes less of the dungeons they have access to than you.

Zulera301

the fact that I have seen players "advertising" that they don't have DLC dungeons to encourage people to group with them says a lot about how disliked the DLC dungeons are.

an easy solution would be to give them their own section. "Random DLC Normal" and "Random DLC Veteran". That way, in the (highly unlikely) event someone wants to pug a DLC, they can do so, and if someone just wants to run a daily, they can. (I mean, random vetran and random normal give out the same rewards more or less, if I am not mistaken? I know the XP is the exact same).

Shantu

While I have no issues running DLC dungeons, per se, I completely avoid anything to do with the dungeon finder. The number of times the experience has proceeded and/or ended poorly far outnumber anything considered good.

I believe the issue herein goes deeper into how the combat system is designed. There is simply too large of an ability gap between casual/average players and those would be considered generally elite, the latter to whom ZOS seems to consider it's prime audience for newer dungeons. Much of the DLC content, let alone vet mode, that is subject to the dungeon finder is totally out of reach for casual players. So you frequently end up with a large disparity of skills in a small role oriented 4 person group. This is a sure fire recipe for discontent and is unfair to both casual and higher skilled players.

None of this is likely to change until ZOS begins to truly understand the capabilities and skills of the vast majority of it's player base...something they continually appear unable, or at least unwilling, to do. It doesn't take a PHD in social science to realize when you randomly throw casual/unskilled and skilled players into the same difficult content, the result will typically not end well. The situation is further complicated when you hide rewards only available via this content.

This is not hard. Just give players an option to include or not include DLC dungeons in the any queue they want to be matched too. Players opting out simply would not have their queue subject to any DLC content. For the higher skilled players you could even sweeten the DLC option with additional perks. This may even have the effect of motivating more casual players to improve their skills so that can have a better experience with DLC content.

There's noting wrong with being a casual or an elite player. The problem is the messy, random, and unorganized way ZOS has designed the DF to throw them together. But to this point they have not been able to design a DF that functions well at a basic level...let alone one that functions logically.

Mr_Walker

BattleAxe wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

I believe the whole point of Random Dungeons is actually to help people find warm bodies for the times they want to run a DLC Dungeon (or any dungeon).

But people are really queueing for the REWARDS, not to help other people, and that is part of the problem. When they are focussed on REWARD they look for the easiest route -- which means avoiding DLC or difficult dungeons (such as by queuing with a lowbie).

Of course just because this is how many MMOs do it, doesn't mean it needs to be this way.
Undaunted quests are one way to populate the queue, but I think a lot of people skip tough dungeons with those too, so it's probably not working out so well.
And just the fact that people are using the queue means simply asking in zone or guild or friend list doesn't work well enough.

So in what other way can the queue be populated so that people who need to do a particular dungeon can get it done?

Maybe remove ALL queue-related rewards? That way, people have to assemble their own teams to get their Monster Helms or gear sets. Then make it easier to get the related Monster shoulders since grinding Undaunted Keys won't be a thing anymore.

Better idea leave rewards and give even more for running the dlcs

Yep. Have OK rewards for queueing for non-dlc dung, and good rewards for all dung.

Mr_Walker

Raisin wrote: »

show previous quotes

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

If i had no access to dlc dungeons i could do random dungeon daily way easier and faster. People who do not give ZOS cash have it easier than people who do. I am legit tank and i have achievements to prove it. But why would i drag random people through long boring dlc, try to teach them mechanics, see them completely ignore what is writen and fail mechanics anyway, all that and more for the same reward as i would get for a short 5 minute normal no mechanic braindead dungeon?

Because it's RANDOM and you don't get to CHOOSE getting the option you prefer. Random dungeon is NOT about giving you your favorite dungeon experience. It is a grab bag and you get something nice for accepting that you may have to run content you don't enjoy with people who make it difficult. Getting a reward for a "short 5 minute normal" isn't the standard, it's a very lucky draw (as will happen in a randomizer), and again not something you are entitled to.
People who can't get ESO+ but dislike the painfully boring base game dungeons do not have it easier than you. The fact that they don't enjoy most of the content random provides for them in this case, just as with you, is not on ZOS' shoulders. There's always something you won't enjoy in a random pool. You still have the chance to get the dungeons you like.
TBH how do you think it feels when I queue for random and get put into one of those painful base-game dungeons that are nothing but bland boring grind, feel like they drone on forever, when I could play something actually stimulating and FUN? What if I do it with a full 4man group (meaning one person is guaranteed to get cooldown) and we need to decide whether we wanna suffer through it or wait to try again? You think I like it? No. But it's daily random and you get what you get. You leave when you get DLC. When it was still possible to abuse the random system and port into a different dungeon, anybody I ran with would leave FG1 and port into something enjoyable to get the bonus -- it wasn't worth running that one again no matter how short. This is a universal experience among people because random does not cater to our tastes. It is not supposed to.

show previous quotes

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

You don't get the reward for something if you don't do the thing. Random means there is a risk and taking that risk is what you get the reward for. It is NOT a daily login reward that you are just simply entitled to.
If it doesn't appeal to you you have the choice not to do it, same as running a random BG or any other features that you personally don't enjoy.

Yes, for the sake of avoiding this discussion I do think ESO+ members should have the option of declining getting the DLC -- perhaps instead of automatically applying it you can buy it for 0 crowns in the crownstore with ESO+ ? That way if you genuinely hate DLC dungeons that much you can refuse them, but you don't get to switch back and forth. If you run them on your own time, you don't get to kick them out of your random dungeon draw pool.

Why is my risk bigger than the risk of someone with no dlc access yet reward is the same?

See above. Your risk isn't bigger because you have ESO+, and it's not bigger compared to people who don't have it. Your risk is bigger because you dislike a lot of the dungeons available to you, and it is only bigger in comparison to someone who dislikes less of the dungeons they have access to than you.

Cute. When the tank/healer dips, enjoy your wait time, because they don't want to deal with thumbless pugs in a dlc dungeon.

There's always something for me to do for 15 minutes....

Raisin

Mr_Walker wrote: »

show previous quotes

Raisin wrote: »

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

If i had no access to dlc dungeons i could do random dungeon daily way easier and faster. People who do not give ZOS cash have it easier than people who do. I am legit tank and i have achievements to prove it. But why would i drag random people through long boring dlc, try to teach them mechanics, see them completely ignore what is writen and fail mechanics anyway, all that and more for the same reward as i would get for a short 5 minute normal no mechanic braindead dungeon?

Because it's RANDOM and you don't get to CHOOSE getting the option you prefer. Random dungeon is NOT about giving you your favorite dungeon experience. It is a grab bag and you get something nice for accepting that you may have to run content you don't enjoy with people who make it difficult. Getting a reward for a "short 5 minute normal" isn't the standard, it's a very lucky draw (as will happen in a randomizer), and again not something you are entitled to.
People who can't get ESO+ but dislike the painfully boring base game dungeons do not have it easier than you. The fact that they don't enjoy most of the content random provides for them in this case, just as with you, is not on ZOS' shoulders. There's always something you won't enjoy in a random pool. You still have the chance to get the dungeons you like.
TBH how do you think it feels when I queue for random and get put into one of those painful base-game dungeons that are nothing but bland boring grind, feel like they drone on forever, when I could play something actually stimulating and FUN? What if I do it with a full 4man group (meaning one person is guaranteed to get cooldown) and we need to decide whether we wanna suffer through it or wait to try again? You think I like it? No. But it's daily random and you get what you get. You leave when you get DLC. When it was still possible to abuse the random system and port into a different dungeon, anybody I ran with would leave FG1 and port into something enjoyable to get the bonus -- it wasn't worth running that one again no matter how short. This is a universal experience among people because random does not cater to our tastes. It is not supposed to.

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

You don't get the reward for something if you don't do the thing. Random means there is a risk and taking that risk is what you get the reward for. It is NOT a daily login reward that you are just simply entitled to.
If it doesn't appeal to you you have the choice not to do it, same as running a random BG or any other features that you personally don't enjoy.

Yes, for the sake of avoiding this discussion I do think ESO+ members should have the option of declining getting the DLC -- perhaps instead of automatically applying it you can buy it for 0 crowns in the crownstore with ESO+ ? That way if you genuinely hate DLC dungeons that much you can refuse them, but you don't get to switch back and forth. If you run them on your own time, you don't get to kick them out of your random dungeon draw pool.

Why is my risk bigger than the risk of someone with no dlc access yet reward is the same?

See above. Your risk isn't bigger because you have ESO+, and it's not bigger compared to people who don't have it. Your risk is bigger because you dislike a lot of the dungeons available to you, and it is only bigger in comparison to someone who dislikes less of the dungeons they have access to than you.

Cute. When the tank/healer dips, enjoy your wait time, because they don't want to deal with thumbless pugs in a dlc dungeon.

There's always something for me to do for 15 minutes....

>haha enjoy your wait
>I don't mind waiting tho

Ever think that maybe... Neither do others? If you don't mind trying again in 15 minutes, what is the problem? The same way that you accept a wait to get the experience you want, so will others.

Jhalin

If you do it on normal they’re really not that hard. Plus you can take the gear and decon it for mats that’ll show up as motifs (used in master writs) that you can then sell to crafters.

beadabow

I understand your point about the rewards for DLC versus non-DLC random dailies, yet I am not sure I understand why you feel punished for doing something you enjoy~ unless you don't enjoy playing the game. If this is the case, why play it? DLC dungeons are more fun than the vanilla dungeons, and yes they can take longer and be more challenging, but that's part of the fun after all. I just don't see the point of logging into a game, being all grouchy, and getting yourself upset over something that was presented to you as a new fun thing to do in a game you are supposed to enjoy. My question is again, if the game makes you so upset, why play it? Play something you enjoy. Life is too short.

Soella

Why don't have two options - general random and DLC random - with higher reward. DLC dungeons require higher skill and more time, giving higher reward would be fair. They have some good gear, but mostly solo player like me has little chance to farm it. Giving more incentives to run them will help to have more groups running them, and as side benefit - more people will know their mechanics, and runs will be faster and less painful.