Should zos delay the next dlc and focus on bug fixes first?

FierceSam

NO

We (players and ZOS) all want this issue to get fixed. However, stopping DLC content release isn’t the answer. And I’ll tell you why.

1. The team that is going to fix this is not Finn’s dungeon dogs. They design dungeons, they develop challenges and bosses and mechanics and colour the whole thing in. They are lovely, talented people, but they have none of the skills required to fix the issues behind the current server failures. You can’t have them sitting on their hands doing nothing, because they’ll just leave and you won’t have a content team. It’s not an either or thing. ZOS needs to invest more in the team that focuses on the backend code.

2. The DLC content provides both an immediate revenue stream and the promise of long term player interest in the game. This is what will convince ZOS to keep investing in the game. No new content = game on the skids.

3. It’s not the new content that is causing the problems, it’s the old code/current servers being unable to cope with the number of players (and the software burden they impose). While changes made to address these issues are made at the same time as DLC releases, they aren’t the same thing. They simply share the same deadlines.

4. and this is total conjecture. What if the performance improvements are working? What if ZOS are seeing a major improvement in server performance? Obviously, it’s not improved enough to solve the issue, but what if the existing team’s work has resulted in way more people being able to play only they have still been overwhelmed by real player numbers? What if this team are working with maximum efficiency, as fast as is possible? Then they couldn’t work any faster even if you stopped the work of a completely different team.

ZOS are in a no win situation here.

ZOS cannot say to players, “F off for a year while we fix the game”, because then the game is dead.

Having got everyone used to the new content every quarter, they can’t even change that without it looking like they’re in trouble, because then the game is dead.

They can’t even separate the performance improvements from the DLC timetable because that would mess up their QA and PTS cycle and result in longer delays for the improvements, at which point the pretence is over and, this time the game really is dead.

starkerealm

NO

xeNNNNN wrote: »

I could vote yes but that would be kinda moronic for me.

See they could delay as much as we want fix everything and then the next patch they drop will break a bunch of things new and old, some big some small and like many threads in a cloth one tug and the whole thing can unravel. Thats the nature of video games, its like a jigsaw puzzle, but each piece isn't entirely separate, so if one doesn't fit properly it isn't just that one piece but a bunch of other pieces and so forth.

I dont recall a game ever existing that performed flawlessly with no bugs. One could argue "but X game didn't have bugs" and I will simply say to that, didn't have bugs that you noticed or cared enough about.

I would much rather they just relocate the server hub to the Netherlands and actually put their money where their mouth is and spend it on better hardware so the game doesn't lag half the time. EU player has 60ms from the UK to germany and then 120ms+ when doing any kind of group content. What a joke.

The problem isn't the location, it's the Anti-DDOS service they use. And it gets so much worse if you're an Aussie.

starkerealm

NO

pieratsos wrote: »

Especially when ur own customers give you the ok to delay ur schedule which is a luxury most companies dont have and yet they still make due and change their schedule to make their product better.

"Yes, 150 of our 13 million install base said they'd be cool with it..."

starkerealm

NO

Gythral wrote: »

What is needed is a team with the skills to fix bugs, which could be paid for by removing the members that do not generate revenue or communicate with the community

The danger with this kind of "publish or perish" system in codding is, "oh, look, it's QA, feed 'em to a grue. No one will notice."

Ironically, the exact logic going through the heads of people at Activision, looking at Blizzard's QA staff.

Palidon

Yes

Same pattern time and time again. New content more bugs and performance problems. ZOS is about quantity, not quality and has been for a long time. The more content put out means more money in their pockets. They even covered their backside against all the down time caused by their performance issues and bugs. Read their terms and agreement. Players complaining about the numerous down times and ask to be compensated. Guess what that will never happen.

Tandor

NO

JamuThatsWho wrote: »

There's no point continuing to pump out content if no one can log in to play it.

There's enough to do for the time being. I say take a year off to focus on improving the infrastructure instead.

That would be right, if it were the case.

I've just logged out after a session playing first on PC NA and then on PC EU. No problems logging in, no performance issues in either case (playing from the UK), with a lot of other players in delves. That's actually been my experience all week apart from one login queue and one server disconnection, both on PC EU. Steam chart figures show a healthy and normal number of players currently logged in (notwithstanding it's off-peak time in the US).

Clearly there are some specific performance issues still relating to e.g. Cyrodiil in particular, and those need to be addressed together with capacity issues affecting PC EU in particular. However, there's no all-encompassing issue affecting all players of all playstyles and across all platforms and servers, so there's no reason to disadvantage everyone in the way suggested here - not least when we're talking about aspects that are handled by different teams some of whom would have to be laid off if they weren't going to be doing anything for a year which is completely impractical.

The two things ZOS do need to do are step up their infrastructure improvements and step up their communications.

vestahls

Yes

It really looks like the big wigs haven't understood that a functional game is as or even more important than a "fun" game. No point in there being lots of stuff to do if you can't do it half the time. They should prioritize performance over new content, until performance is stable. I've played a few other MMOs, and nowhere did I see such unreliability in server uptime or even such lag and random crashes. How come other games can pull this off but not ESO? Those other games had less frequent DLCs and events, but nobody minded because the game worked. They can't do that here? Guar dung. (inb4 muh different teams)

Maybe they're not tracking user complaints, maybe they just send incident tickets down the bin, who knows.

Darios_Heliodromos

NO

I'm wondering how shocked I should be that so many people voted "Yes" here.

ESO definitely has its performance issues but cancelling future DLC essentially kills what is probably their main source of revenue. Knowing what I know about working in corporations, I wouldn't be surprised if the development team at ZOS is understaffed, overworked, and probably ended up stuck with too many projects to manage at the same time (the festival, the release of Dragonhold, as well as patch 24). What's scary to me is that corporations are usually not keen on hiring more people until things have gotten really bad to the point where they are worried about potential revenue loss.

All the same, this game produces great content and I plan to continue supporting this game as I have for the last 4 years. Technical issues are an unavoidable part of life...they'll get fixed. ZOS will learn and we'll all move on.

lemonizzle

Yes

Department this, department that, if performance is not fixed soon the visual and quest team can pump 10 orsinium dlc, yet there won't be anyone to play and pay for it. (Because they can't login or are booted after 10 minutes.)

Aptonoth

Yes

Darios_Heliodromos wrote: »

I'm wondering how shocked I should be that so many people voted "Yes" here.

ESO definitely has its performance issues but cancelling future DLC essentially kills what is probably their main source of revenue. Knowing what I know about working in corporations, I wouldn't be surprised if the development team at ZOS is understaffed, overworked, and probably ended up stuck with too many projects to manage at the same time (the festival, the release of Dragonhold, as well as patch 24). What's scary to me is that corporations are usually not keen on hiring more people until things have gotten really bad to the point where they are worried about potential revenue loss.

All the same, this game produces great content and I plan to continue supporting this game as I have for the last 4 years. Technical issues are an unavoidable part of life...they'll get fixed. ZOS will learn and we'll all move on.

Event is broken due to a new glitch. Drops aren't working lol. This game is a travesty right now.

Elsonso

NO

I always vote NO on these because the question assumes that this is some sort of Zero Sum game. They can do either of them, but not both. No. They need to do BOTH of them. At the same time. Failure to fix bugs is not because of new content. Failure to fix bugs is because they are not fixing bugs.

valeriiya

Yes

But they don't plan to. @ZOS_RobGarrett said so almost a year ago. Money over everything for ZO$

srfrogg23

NO

These things are not mutually exclusive. They can work on both at the same time.

I also do not experience the majority of bugs and connectivity issues that other people claim to have. Delaying more content for me, to fix problems that I don't have, is not something I am willing to agree to.

Megatto

Yes

I definitely wouldn't mind having to wait for more content if they took the time to fix bugs

JumpmanLane

I would vote PROBABLY. Performance is an ongoing issue. However, the team that creates DLC content does an incredible job. The new zones are consistently beautiful. Dungeons and delves are incredibly well designed. I look forward to that content.

The combat team EVENTUALLY gets it right. What they do is a thankless task.

The fact that ZOS hot fixes stuff when they have to is a good sign. I’m gonna cut ZOS some slack.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Yes

there is no new DLC announced next though...last I checked is about cp system revamp and many fixes and stuff like that...

karekiz

Yes

I vote they remove group content to focus on class skills and bug fixes.

Ohh wait.

Chilly-McFreeze

Jayroo wrote: »

look at the dead by daylight community with the delayed Halloween event.

delaying content creates backlash, releasing buggy content creates backlash, there's simply never any winning

How about taken PTS feedback and testing in general more serious to not release buggy content?

jircris11

Yes

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Issue with this is, they tried once way back when and ppl complained that they where not working on new content. So they are damned either way. Besides mmos change so often you cant fix bugs in the true sense, you fix one two take its place.

StormeReigns

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

look at the dead by daylight community with the delayed Halloween event.

delaying content creates backlash, releasing buggy content creates backlash, there's simply never any winning

How about taken PTS feedback and testing in general more serious to not release buggy content?

Still will create a rift and back.lash

Yes, no matter how well intended, or if the company excels at listening, communicating and fixing, despite any and all good intentions, there will always will be a backlash of some form - that is and will forever be the nature of the beast.

Good communication? = Why are you here telling us this!? Fix it, stop trying to be our buddies!

Fixing bugs and all front end/back end issues? = No longer can have any "real" fun in game!

Good listening? = Stop letting the players tell you how to fix your game / Stop favoring <label of player here> and listen to <insert label here>

Truly the sad thing is there are those itching to let those complaints out. They just sit waiting for their moment, and it creates a new form of flood waters that overwhelm and often more difficult to recover from.

simple_specops

Don't care

I am sorry to admit that lately my hopes for the game are very low, I just read the patch notes enjoy the crying, log in try the new changes, agree or disagree with the criers, and then just go on with character progression, since the anniversary event I basically just collected skyshards levels up guild skills and so on, hoping the characters will be ready when a good and stable update comes

Zephyris_Kalnoris

Don't care

They shoud put bugfixed version only for ESO+ subscribers.

Dusk_Coven

I think calling really severe issues -- that are even blocking people from logging in -- calling them "bugs" is really trivializing.

Of course you should delay a DLC release when your player base can't even log in to play the game. Or gets unplayable lag. Or is disconnected. Who's gonna pay for a game they can't play?

Sure, continue work on it. But how about actually making sure people can play it first, eh? Like have a working game before you have an expansion for it?

redlink1979

I think their budget is big enough to have teams doing both tasks at same time but performance must be prioritized.

FierceSam

NO

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

I think calling really severe issues -- that are even blocking people from logging in -- calling them "bugs" is really trivializing.

Of course you should delay a DLC release when your player base can't even log in to play the game. Or gets unplayable lag. Or is disconnected. Who's gonna pay for a game they can't play?

Sure, continue work on it. But how about actually making sure people can play it first, eh? Like have a working game before you have an expansion for it?

Clearly you’re going to look like a bit of a fool if you try to release content for a game that’s unplayable.

The problem is that carrying on DLC production/not carrying on DLC production does nothing to address the issues. Indeed, even saying “we’re going to delay DLC production” risks making the situation worse by reinforcing the notion that the game is broken.

The team that colours in monsters (Finn’s team) is not the team that’s (hopefully) currently working out how to fix/update/replace the servers. They are actual, different people. With different skill sets and abilities.

For sure ZOS need to urgently pump in a ton more energy, resources, money and priority to the ‘Fixing the Servers’ team. But that’s not done by holding back on DLC production.

Kilnerdyne

Yes

When a company or part of a company is administrated in a way that shareholder profits were negotiated so poorly in the outset of the venture that they will far outweigh any other spending in the future then it's easy for an evil management system (aka greedy, wicked, immoral etc.) to be established. This then, unfortunately, negates the usual departmental delegation sectors that exist in normal companys.

The different sectors, concept, design, programming, development, and testing etc do not work as efficiently as they would in a fair-minded, customer-orientated environment which leads to a heavy bias in the assignment of human resources when it comes to content creation vs testing vs maintenance sectors. This HR department is then constantly forced to assign the most experienced recruits on to the new DLC money train whilst anyone who is left fills in the gaps left behind (sometimes regardless of which sector they applied to work at or which specializations they might have).

And that's where the game is at at the moment. A Dumpster fire on wheels.

gepe87

Yes

Oh new group finder is worst than the previous had. They out so much faith on that
Other MMO companies dont release content so fast as ZOS.
A pity that each one gets worst month after month.
PTS should be 8 weeks and devs really should take notes from who test it.

Dusk_Coven

FierceSam wrote: »

The problem is that carrying on DLC production/not carrying on DLC production does nothing to address the issues. Indeed, even saying “we’re going to delay DLC production” risks making the situation worse by reinforcing the notion that the game is broken.

OP title is "Should zos delay the next dlc and focus on bug fixes first?"
Not "delay production" specifically. (Actually OP didn't even provide any details or context or other opinion)

If ZOS is going to release something in Q1 2020, do you seriously think they're going to start on it now? Scramble over a couple of months to paste something together and sell it in Q1? More likely they are packaging it up ready to ship and the production team is working on Q2 if not Q3 already. They probably have 2020 all figured out.

Since Dragonhold is buggy -- and that's not including the current server / group finder crisis -- my take on the OP's poll is that ZOS should re-examine how they are scheduling things such that both the product and the base game are, to put it mildly, "buggy".
And considering how they did this year with their releases and bugs and the exploits that resulted, I think ZOS really should review their performance and internal quality controls. And that might result in a delayed release schedule while ALL DEPARTMENTS look over their work. So that things like this https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6405861/#Comment_6405861 don't happen again.

MasterSpatula

NO

themaddaedra wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Dif.

Fer.

Ent.

Teams.

Sharing sa.me.re.sour.ces. We have a Sherlock here.

Ok, Inspector Lestrade, if you divert resources away from the people doing the work that actually keeps the company making money and put those resources into those who maintain the product, who do you suggest should be laid off due to inadequate resources to their departments? Or do you think the people actually doing a good job should all get pay cuts so we can have bug fixes?

This is a re-intestment into the existing product and thus should be an additional expense, not a diversion of resources away from the team doing to work that keeps them all paid. If more resources go into bug-fixes, they need to cut into profits to do it. The bottom line would suffer a lot less by reinvesting some profits for a quarter than it would by not releasing a product for customers to buy in that quarter.

Oh, and some advice: If you want to derisively imply someone is stupid, maybe don't do so while saying something that's not very smart.

preamp

Yes

Definitely NO MORE DLCs until they fix bugs and the game plays better. When I first started playing years ago I really enjoyed the game, these days half of the time the game pi$$e$ me off......