ZOS behaves like a spoiled and offended child when faced with criticism and opts for censorship
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FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Harrdarrzarr wrote: »His remark "post constructive feedback dev can use for a real change" was obviously placed regarding the "does zos even care" forum thread? It has nothing to do with any previous thread.
What is the result that you have in mind when creating this thread, or what result would the person have had in mind when creating the "does ZOS even care post" thread?
Bitching about something for the sake of bitching is not constructive.
This might blow your mind... but criticism is not invalid just because it's non-constructive.
I don't know what's wrong with this generation of humans that people seem to believe they're infallible to criticism unless the person criticizing them is also spoonfeeding them a solution.
ZOS deserves the negative criticism they get. We don't owe them constructive responses.
ZOS repeatedly over the last 4 years or whatever it's been, constantly putting stuff in PTS that gets criticized and going live with it - time and time again. Clearly they aren't responsive to constructive feedback as it is.
I mean just stop a second and think. Why does it need to be constructive? If I got drunk out of my mind right now, went driving and caused some accidents - would you be giving me "constructive" criticism - or the duly earned non-constructive criticism. This is just one example of 100s of 1000s of real life scenarios where constructive criticism is not warranted.
There comes a point where asking people to be constructive is a form of diffusion of responsibility. ZOS has been at this point for years.
If I want to say to somebody "Your product is bad" - that is NOT an invalid statement. It's not my job to tell them how to make it better... it's THEIR'S.
Yes, but if you want them to listen, it really helps if you are constructive about it.
Very few people have been able to change my mind/opinion/behaviour by being rude and unconstructive. Because my default position will be to ignore or dismiss them because of their attitude. Many people have been able to change my mind/opinion/behaviour by being productive about it. I would imagine that each of us is similar.
If what you want is for ZOS to change something, the best way to achieve that is to make a coherent case for it. You can do that without being ranty, angry or ‘unconstructive’. You can do that without even telling ZOS how bad they are and how right you are.
Alternatively, if you want to shout and scream like a petulant 2 year-old, you can do that too, only don’t expect anyone to take you seriously and occasionally expect to get sent to your room to cool down,
Constructive feedback was proven to not change a thing, so you and other people harping on about "be constructive" is what: a desperate attempt to deny the reality that ZOS couldn't care less, even when the post/thread is based on a logically sound argument supported by evidence?
Btw: you and others keep on harping about "being constructive" and yet you didn't even define that term or provide a case in which you deem the opinion constructive.
The way you use it heavily implies constructive = only if the receiving party tolerates/accepts it, and if not it's unconstructive e.g.
Me: "You died due to standing in bad"
You: "That's unconstructive".
Yup that’s what I said.
If your objective is to get me to change my behaviour, you have to be constructive about it. You can’t MAKE me change my behaviour, I have to WANT to change my behaviour. That how changing people’s minds works.
So you can say “the reason you just died is you stood in that red stuff, next time try moving out of it” and that would be constructive. You might have to say it more than once. You might have to bite your tongue. More than once.
You might prefer to say, “oh ffs you *** stop standing in the *g** red like a noob”. I know sometimes I do. It might make YOU feel better, but it’s unlikely to make me listen to you, much less take in what you’re saying or bother to do anything other than ignore you.
You have to decide what you want the end result to be and modify your behaviour to achieve that. I believe on a behavioural level that’s called gaming.3 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And, there are a lot of people to criticize the game for being "too easy" and "too META driven". So the devs nerf stuff to balance and make the game more challenging.
Then... other people rush to the forums to throw a tantrum and bash the devs.3 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OP how old are you?!
Your ability at discussion/argument is so similar to that of my teenagers when they get thwarted or self-righteous about their opinion, and don’t like any criticism or disagreement about their way of thinking!
Amusing for a short while, then ultimately extremely tedious.8 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Harrdarrzarr wrote: »His remark "post constructive feedback dev can use for a real change" was obviously placed regarding the "does zos even care" forum thread? It has nothing to do with any previous thread.
What is the result that you have in mind when creating this thread, or what result would the person have had in mind when creating the "does ZOS even care post" thread?
Bitching about something for the sake of bitching is not constructive.
This might blow your mind... but criticism is not invalid just because it's non-constructive.
I don't know what's wrong with this generation of humans that people seem to believe they're infallible to criticism unless the person criticizing them is also spoonfeeding them a solution.
ZOS deserves the negative criticism they get. We don't owe them constructive responses.
ZOS repeatedly over the last 4 years or whatever it's been, constantly putting stuff in PTS that gets criticized and going live with it - time and time again. Clearly they aren't responsive to constructive feedback as it is.
I mean just stop a second and think. Why does it need to be constructive? If I got drunk out of my mind right now, went driving and caused some accidents - would you be giving me "constructive" criticism - or the duly earned non-constructive criticism. This is just one example of 100s of 1000s of real life scenarios where constructive criticism is not warranted.
There comes a point where asking people to be constructive is a form of diffusion of responsibility. ZOS has been at this point for years.
If I want to say to somebody "Your product is bad" - that is NOT an invalid statement. It's not my job to tell them how to make it better... it's THEIR'S.
Yes, but if you want them to listen, it really helps if you are constructive about it.
Very few people have been able to change my mind/opinion/behaviour by being rude and unconstructive. Because my default position will be to ignore or dismiss them because of their attitude. Many people have been able to change my mind/opinion/behaviour by being productive about it. I would imagine that each of us is similar.
If what you want is for ZOS to change something, the best way to achieve that is to make a coherent case for it. You can do that without being ranty, angry or ‘unconstructive’. You can do that without even telling ZOS how bad they are and how right you are.
Alternatively, if you want to shout and scream like a petulant 2 year-old, you can do that too, only don’t expect anyone to take you seriously and occasionally expect to get sent to your room to cool down,
Constructive feedback was proven to not change a thing, so you and other people harping on about "be constructive" is what: a desperate attempt to deny the reality that ZOS couldn't care less, even when the post/thread is based on a logically sound argument supported by evidence?
Btw: you and others keep on harping about "being constructive" and yet you didn't even define that term or provide a case in which you deem the opinion constructive.
The way you use it heavily implies constructive = only if the receiving party tolerates/accepts it, and if not it's unconstructive e.g.
Me: "You died due to standing in bad"
You: "That's unconstructive".
Yup that’s what I said.
If your objective is to get me to change my behaviour, you have to be constructive about it. You can’t MAKE me change my behaviour, I have to WANT to change my behaviour. That how changing people’s minds works.
So you can say “the reason you just died is you stood in that red stuff, next time try moving out of it” and that would be constructive. You might have to say it more than once. You might have to bite your tongue. More than once.
You might prefer to say, “oh ffs you *** stop standing in the *g** red like a noob”. I know sometimes I do. It might make YOU feel better, but it’s unlikely to make me listen to you, much less take in what you’re saying or bother to do anything other than ignore you.
You have to decide what you want the end result to be and modify your behaviour to achieve that. I believe on a behavioural level that’s called gaming.
If I understand you correctly, as you still lack precision, you want me to hold your hand while using very soft-spoken criticism and guide you throw it, as you want to be convinced about the things I said, instead of me voicing my criticism and you evaluating for yourself if the criticism has merit or not?0 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »OP how old are you?!
Your ability at discussion/argument is so similar to that of my teenagers when they get thwarted or self-righteous about their opinion, and don’t like any criticism or disagreement about their way of thinking!
Amusing for a short while, then ultimately extremely tedious.
Keep the criticism coming regarding my posts, but the overwhelming majority so far has been:- "Be constructive" when it's been proven that ZOS doesn't care one bit
- "You're rude/bashing the devs" without a single shred of evidence for that claim or an attempt at refuting my arguments
Just like you: instead of disproving my arguments you're only focusing on my person.
Do you also teach your children to ignore every argument in a discussion and just aim for the person?
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Tatanko✭✭✭✭I love how OP is attacking every person in this thread and then wondering why people think they're rude.9 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In the end, this is usually caused by the people on the forum. Having been here for years, and having been critical of ZOS multiple times, I have never been contacted, suspended, or banned due to something I have said on the forum. I am sure that ZOS has been less than pleased with stuff I have said, but as long as I don't cross that line, ZOS let's me be.3 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The devs don’t even like tacos. How can I trust anyone who doesn’t like tacos?!
Don’t get me started on the mods...0 -
Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭daedalusAI wrote: »Hallothiel wrote: »OP how old are you?!
Your ability at discussion/argument is so similar to that of my teenagers when they get thwarted or self-righteous about their opinion, and don’t like any criticism or disagreement about their way of thinking!
Amusing for a short while, then ultimately extremely tedious.
Keep the criticism coming regarding my posts, but the overwhelming majority so far has been:- "Be constructive" when it's been proven that ZOS doesn't care one bit
- "You're rude/bashing the devs" without a single shred of evidence for that claim or an attempt at refuting my arguments
Just like you: instead of disproving my arguments you're only focusing on my person.
Do you also teach your children to ignore every argument in a discussion and just aim for the person?
Where has it been proven they don't care? That is an opinion, there is no "proof".
No, but I teach my children to ignore people who don't convey their opinions in a constructive, adult manner. I also teach them to think for themselves, not take gaming so seriously and to make sure their opinions are voiced appropriately.6 -
ZOS_JesCadminWe've removed a handful of comments that were baiting or inappropriate to the point of violating our forum rules. Since discussing moderation action is specifically stated in our forum rules, we've decided to close this thread.
To clarify, comments and threads that contain criticism are perfectly fine and are often frequented to help identify issues. The difference lies in how the threads or posts are crafted. For example; a post that states "I hate x,y,z" doesn't allow for a constructive conversation to take place. A post that starts like "I would change x,y, z and here is how..." on the other hand, is actively engaging, offers valid feedback and allows for other community members to discuss the topic by offering their suggestions as well.
The moderation team is more than happy to address questions and clarify why a forum moderation action is taken. We highly encourage you to reach out to us directly via private message, instead of taking a risk by breaking the forum rules.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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