Was this supposed to be the "class identity" patch?

DreadDaedroth

It's weird how much they tried to link Dk identity with Stonefist! They'll even go on with it in future patches... meanwhile wings...

jcm2606

https://www.twitch.tv/dottzgaming/clip/BloodyGracefulCobblerAsianGlow

jcm2606

Yeah, this was meant to be the identity update, lets look at what DK and Sorc got for identity!

DK:

• Embers and Engulfing both nerfed.
• Molten Armaments buffed where it didn't need buffing, leaving it still just as useless as it is now.
• Poop Fist, but wait, now it's Flaming Poop Fist! In case you wanted to RP your toilet trips after eating out at Taco Bell!

Sorc:

• Streak got ***, Ball of Lightning overbuffed.
• A pet that is somehow actually worse than magsorc's pets.
• Bound Armaments, glorified rip off of Grim Focus.

So much identity! So much power fantasy! Feels amazing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FjWe31S_0g

Ragnarock41

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Stam and Mag Sorcs have always been top-tier for pvp. That unblockable stun is just as stupid as Living Dark.

Davadin wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

......for dks...and sorcs right?


....


And you essentially give them weird unimaginably stupid variations of nbs mercy bow which actually diluted the class identity.....

Like.....


Am I the only one?

Isn't that just a dw DK with Igneous Weapons?

That picture up there? That is not a Dk with igneous weapons unfortunately., that is just a photoshopped flame effect. If only igneous weapons looked that cool.

Edit: Apologies, seems like I was somewhat incorrect.




This is how igneous weapons looks like, and it does have actual flame effects , just for the first moment when you activate the skill, then your weapons look like this for the rest of its duration. Its normal for me to make this kind of mistake considering I never really had a reason to use this ability, ever.

Vlad9425

It’s funny how the exact same people who destroyed class identity are now trying to pretend that they know about class identity. The hypocrisy is insane.

BattleAxe

Vlad9425 wrote: »

It’s funny how the exact same people who destroyed class identity are now trying to pretend that they know about class identity. The hypocrisy is insane.

Devs had slam dunks for both stam sorcs and dks

Stam whip more poison damage morphs
Stam crystal frag air atro stam pets

What we got
Grim focus rip off and flying flaming dung

Canned_Apples

Class identity, as we all picture it, will never be a thing in this game.
It's possible to give every class it's own "flavor" or "theme," but anything more would require a complete overhaul of the combat and skill line system.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Stam and Mag Sorcs have always been top-tier for pvp. That unblockable stun is just as stupid as Living Dark.

Davadin wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

......for dks...and sorcs right?


....


And you essentially give them weird unimaginably stupid variations of nbs mercy bow which actually diluted the class identity.....

Like.....


Am I the only one?

Isn't that just a dw DK with Igneous Weapons?

That picture up there? That is not a Dk with igneous weapons unfortunately., that is just a photoshopped flame effect. If only igneous weapons looked that cool.

Edit: Apologies, seems like I was somewhat incorrect.




This is how igneous weapons looks like, and it does have actual flame effects , just for the first moment when you activate the skill, then your weapons look like this for the rest of its duration. Its normal for me to make this kind of mistake considering I never really had a reason to use this ability, ever.

Nothing in game will ever look like it does in concept art. If it did, everyone's fps would suffer.

JinMori

I think they went too far, it;s fine if you want all classes to do relatively the same damage, but, if you standardize everything, then why should i play a templar over a dk? Or a sorc over a nightblade? Just for the visuals?

That's not enough.

I think all classes should have a spammable, an execute and dots that deal varying degrees of damage, and most of all, have different effects, while i like the bound armaments, it's true that it's a bit too similar to focus.

As i said before also, i think they went too far with the buffs and nerfs of dot, it's kinda ridiculous, In my opinion the best approach as i said a few times would have been a more versatile approach, should unnerf aoe dots to elsweyr levels again, revert st dots to also elsweyr level, and slightly buff them, like 5 to 10%, so you can decide between pure st damage, or versatility.

This is how i think it would have been the best.

Ragnarock41

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Class identity, as we all picture it, will never be a thing in this game.
It's possible to give every class it's own "flavor" or "theme," but anything more would require a complete overhaul of the combat and skill line system.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Stam and Mag Sorcs have always been top-tier for pvp. That unblockable stun is just as stupid as Living Dark.

Davadin wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

......for dks...and sorcs right?


....


And you essentially give them weird unimaginably stupid variations of nbs mercy bow which actually diluted the class identity.....

Like.....


Am I the only one?

Isn't that just a dw DK with Igneous Weapons?

That picture up there? That is not a Dk with igneous weapons unfortunately., that is just a photoshopped flame effect. If only igneous weapons looked that cool.

Edit: Apologies, seems like I was somewhat incorrect.




This is how igneous weapons looks like, and it does have actual flame effects , just for the first moment when you activate the skill, then your weapons look like this for the rest of its duration. Its normal for me to make this kind of mistake considering I never really had a reason to use this ability, ever.

Nothing in game will ever look like it does in concept art. If it did, everyone's fps would suffer.

Except you can buy better looking flame effect weapons from crown store. Please stop killing your own credibility. Performance is definitely not the issue with DKs not getting new animation. Its the lack of a way to monetize it, that is why.

BattleAxe

JinMori wrote: »

I think they went too far, it;s fine if you want all classes to do relatively the same damage, but, if you standardize everything, then why should i play a templar over a dk? Or a sorc over a nightblade? Just for the visuals?

That's not enough.

I think all classes should have a spammable, an execute and dots that deal varying degrees of damage, and most of all, have different effects, while i like the bound armaments, it's true that it's a bit too similar to focus.

As i said before also, i think they went too far with the buffs and nerfs of dot, it's kinda ridiculous, In my opinion the best approach as i said a few times would have been a more versatile approach, should unnerf aoe dots to elsweyr levels again, revert st dots to also elsweyr level, and slightly buff them, like 5 to 10%, so you can decide between pure st damage, or versatility.

This is how i think it would have been the best.

Dots are and never were the problem the issue was first vigor was unfairly nerfed due to builds specifically designed to make vigor look op. Second the biggest counter to dots aka purge was not really buffed up to combat dots basically add more effects purges beyond the current 3 or a major reduction in its cost had devs done this dots would not have been considered OP.

Pre scalebreaker you would see post after post unkillable players tank meta this and so on then when dots got buffed and players were actually dying damage was a problem. If u truly disagree with me tht dots need toned down well in a month when heavy armor meta is a problem again to ask for heal nerfs or damage buffs because scalebreaker is actually probably one of the most balanced patches we have had in awhile. The problem people just don’t wanna L2P

Grandma

JinMori wrote: »

I think they went too far, it;s fine if you want all classes to do relatively the same damage, but, if you standardize everything, then why should i play a templar over a dk? Or a sorc over a nightblade? Just for the visuals?

That's not enough.

I think all classes should have a spammable, an execute and dots that deal varying degrees of damage, and most of all, have different effects, while i like the bound armaments, it's true that it's a bit too similar to focus.

As i said before also, i think they went too far with the buffs and nerfs of dot, it's kinda ridiculous, In my opinion the best approach as i said a few times would have been a more versatile approach, should unnerf aoe dots to elsweyr levels again, revert st dots to also elsweyr level, and slightly buff them, like 5 to 10%, so you can decide between pure st damage, or versatility.

This is how i think it would have been the best.

i disagree; i don't think every class should have a spam, execute, dot, not every class should just be a cookie cutter build with different flashing colors being the only distinction between them. Classes should PLAY- PLAY different, not just be watered down base kits with everything available to them and have a skill for every situation like zos is making it. this is what killed WoW classes, and look at what happened to wow- they went back to classic because they literally understood class flavor and uniqueness better back then compared to now. ZOS doesn't have the playerbase or resources or need to do that, but I sure wish they would adopt the approach to class balance of not everyone needing to feel and play the exact same.

Canned_Apples

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Class identity, as we all picture it, will never be a thing in this game.
It's possible to give every class it's own "flavor" or "theme," but anything more would require a complete overhaul of the combat and skill line system.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Stam and Mag Sorcs have always been top-tier for pvp. That unblockable stun is just as stupid as Living Dark.

Davadin wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

......for dks...and sorcs right?


....


And you essentially give them weird unimaginably stupid variations of nbs mercy bow which actually diluted the class identity.....

Like.....


Am I the only one?

Isn't that just a dw DK with Igneous Weapons?

That picture up there? That is not a Dk with igneous weapons unfortunately., that is just a photoshopped flame effect. If only igneous weapons looked that cool.

Edit: Apologies, seems like I was somewhat incorrect.




This is how igneous weapons looks like, and it does have actual flame effects , just for the first moment when you activate the skill, then your weapons look like this for the rest of its duration. Its normal for me to make this kind of mistake considering I never really had a reason to use this ability, ever.

Nothing in game will ever look like it does in concept art. If it did, everyone's fps would suffer.

Except you can buy better looking flame effect weapons from crown store. Please stop killing your own credibility. Performance is definitely not the issue with DKs not getting new animation. Its the lack of a way to monetize it, that is why.

puh-lease.

If that were the case then they wouldn't have bothered updating Stone Fist's animation, or are they somehow monetizing that?

We're also not just talking a few dks running around with flaming weapons- It would be massive blobs....after all, it is a group buff.

They'd need to completely rework the skill and give it a (good) secondary effect to make it worth slotting over Degeneration (dot,) Momentum (Root Immunity or Heal,) or pots (free bar slot.)

Canned_Apples

Grandma wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

I think they went too far, it;s fine if you want all classes to do relatively the same damage, but, if you standardize everything, then why should i play a templar over a dk? Or a sorc over a nightblade? Just for the visuals?

That's not enough.

I think all classes should have a spammable, an execute and dots that deal varying degrees of damage, and most of all, have different effects, while i like the bound armaments, it's true that it's a bit too similar to focus.

As i said before also, i think they went too far with the buffs and nerfs of dot, it's kinda ridiculous, In my opinion the best approach as i said a few times would have been a more versatile approach, should unnerf aoe dots to elsweyr levels again, revert st dots to also elsweyr level, and slightly buff them, like 5 to 10%, so you can decide between pure st damage, or versatility.

This is how i think it would have been the best.

i disagree; i don't think every class should have a spam, execute, dot, not every class should just be a cookie cutter build with different flashing colors being the only distinction between them. Classes should PLAY- PLAY different, not just be watered down base kits with everything available to them and have a skill for every situation like zos is making it. this is what killed WoW classes, and look at what happened to wow- they went back to classic because they literally understood class flavor and uniqueness better back then compared to now. ZOS doesn't have the playerbase or resources or need to do that, but I sure wish they would adopt the approach to class balance of not everyone needing to feel and play the exact same.

That's not why they went back to classic... they didn't even "go back" to classic... they opened vanilla servers because people wanted one and they saw they could make millions off of it. It had nothing to do with their lack of vision for "classes/etc."
As far as I know, they're not even going to create new content for it. It's just going to be there for people that want it.

Wow classes, or any other traditional mmo, feel unique because they are locked behind a specific weapon skill line. Hunter=Bow Rogue=DW Warrior= 2h/snb Then there's Warlock=DoTs Mage=?Burst/ae?
Warhammer Online had better diversity and each class had its own mechanic.

merevie

My workplace has a slogan they trot out each time they wish to mitigate some massive incoming mess they've created: "We're not doing anything new here. We've done this for years"....

This reminds me of that.

Any time anyone starts with an entire post of justification in advance, you just know...

But this time I'm relaxed. They cannot destroy my class any further. SO WHATEVER BRING IT!

BattleAxe

merevie wrote: »

My workplace has a slogan they trot out each time they wish to mitigate some massive incoming mess they've created: "We're not doing anything new here. We've done this for years"....

This reminds me of that.

Any time anyone starts with an entire post of justification in advance, you just know...

But this time I'm relaxed. They cannot destroy my class any further. SO WHATEVER BRING IT!

Is that a challenge to the devs I’m sure they can manage to destroy ur class even more if there’s a will there’s a way

TheHsN

You Should not trust Zos and expect more things from them in first place...

They are the WORST when in come fixing things.

OrderoftheDarkness

Funny to tears... Identity used to be better?? Especially Reverberating Bash. The shield's stunning had a major defile. What kind of identity can we talk about here? There are many such old examples.
Good words about what we see with different eyes. The difference is that the developers work together. At the forum, we try to prove that our opinion is true in the only form and we can not imagine exactly what the picture will look like as a whole.

MajBludd

It seems all they are doing is making all class skills available to every class. Or at least that seems to be their direction.

JinMori

Grandma wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

I think they went too far, it;s fine if you want all classes to do relatively the same damage, but, if you standardize everything, then why should i play a templar over a dk? Or a sorc over a nightblade? Just for the visuals?

That's not enough.

I think all classes should have a spammable, an execute and dots that deal varying degrees of damage, and most of all, have different effects, while i like the bound armaments, it's true that it's a bit too similar to focus.

As i said before also, i think they went too far with the buffs and nerfs of dot, it's kinda ridiculous, In my opinion the best approach as i said a few times would have been a more versatile approach, should unnerf aoe dots to elsweyr levels again, revert st dots to also elsweyr level, and slightly buff them, like 5 to 10%, so you can decide between pure st damage, or versatility.

This is how i think it would have been the best.

i disagree; i don't think every class should have a spam, execute, dot, not every class should just be a cookie cutter build with different flashing colors being the only distinction between them. Classes should PLAY- PLAY different, not just be watered down base kits with everything available to them and have a skill for every situation like zos is making it. this is what killed WoW classes, and look at what happened to wow- they went back to classic because they literally understood class flavor and uniqueness better back then compared to now. ZOS doesn't have the playerbase or resources or need to do that, but I sure wish they would adopt the approach to class balance of not everyone needing to feel and play the exact same.

It's not exactly the same thing.

The rotations in wow feel quite different, the problem is that they removed too much from their toolkit, but mostly utility.

SipofMaim

MajBludd wrote: »

It seems all they are doing is making all class skills available to every class. Or at least that seems to be their direction.

And yet magDK and magden still have no access to an execute, because homogenization would be bad.