Please remove the one shot mechanics

Jaraal

Uryel wrote: »

Then, there are some annoying dungeon mechanics, preventing us from trying some dungeons as a solo run, for the sheer challenge of it. Like, when a boss will randomly select someone to pin them on the ground and they'll need help from a group member to get back up, else they die. That's a secondary concerne, but that's still quite annoying. And no amount of blocking will help with that either.

This is a dumb tactic invented to try and force people to group up. Fungal Grotto 1 is a fun challenge for the developing solo player, but Fungal Grotto 2 is off limits to complete without a very narrow set of skills and a lot of time and luck. Yet the quality of the loot is no different, so why block the solo player from part of the game? At least with Frostvault you can get past the pin down guy if you can survive his beat down, but an instakill mechanic in an old world dungeon? Just poor planning.

Tommy_The_Gun

I agree with OP. There is something wrong when 35K+ health tank with maxed resistances gets one-shoted on normal difficulty... - again, no telegraph, you just have to die 10 - 15 times to memorize & know the mechanics. That is cheap. That is "cat mario" level or "unfair platformer" level of cheese. Like in old NES 8 bit games or old "Dragon’s Lair" games. You have to memorize everything otherwise random Atom will kill you...

Even in something like Dark Souls games (considered one of the most difficult games) there are no one-shots. You can survive those if have a lot of health or for example if flames are hitting you - you can survive it if you have high resistance to fire. But in eso it feels like there are certain scripts that kill you, dealing 1000% of your health as oblivion DMG, just in case.

vesselwiththepestle

There are three kinds of one-shot mechanics:

1. One-shot mechanics which aren't anymore one-shot mechanics at max CP. (The last bosses in Spindleclutch 1 and in Banished Cells throws some ranged attack, which is a one-shot until you get enough CP in your defensive trees when you suddenly survive it). I tend to treat those mechanics which normally kill a 300 cp character as one-shot mechanic.
2. One-shot mechanics which require playing base-game mechanics, like getting out of an aoe (Fungal Grotto 1) or dodging a heavy attack (like the colossus heavy attack in fang lair).
3. One-shot mechanics which require playing a special mechanic (Cradle of Shadows, Moon Hunter Keep boss before the last etc.)

No 2 one-shots are only a problem, when they are telegraphed badly. Some just need practive. For example, I still get killed by every 2nd heavy attack from the colossus in fang lair, just because I don't get the timing right and dodge roll too early. I try to compensate by dodge rolling two times, which is very expensive. A better player would know when to dodge roll, but they would have to learn the timing first. Other one-shots like that telegraph really badly, like the crocodiles in vBRP. Those are changed next patch, I am glad!

Some one shot mechanics require very fast reaction times. You need to see or hear some signal, like a sentence from the boss, an animation etc. to react, like the shout in Falkreath Hold. You need to know how the signal before the shout, so you can hide from it and avoid the one-shot. Sometimes you can follow a strategy to make it easier, like in Spindleclutch 1, when you stay in a circle around the boss so you can see better when the boss turns to you. The less reaction time you get, which often depends on the visibility of the animation initiating the attack, the harder it is to play.

I am playing regularly with some casual players and those had a REALLY hard time completing the Spindleclutch 1 HM for the first time, because there were those 2 one-shots (ranged attack on one player + aoe). It was NOT easy, several times we ended up doing it without the HM until they got better after weeks and we could do the HM.

In my opinion the amount of one-shot mechanics is not a problem except there is a lot of going on at the same time. Some Hard Modes feel more like quick-time-events instead of playing a character in a mmo. I don't like when one-shot mechanics are done with poorly visible animations (some aren't even visible at all on low texture quality!) and like no reaction time. Just compare your time to get out of the Fungal Grotto 1 aoe vs the poison dragon breath in Scalecaller HM (which additionally you can't leave by dodge rolling, which is against all reflexes I build on my stamina dps, because even when you are outside the aoe telegraph but still in the dodge roll animation, you'll be hit by the poison).

aetherial_heavenn

VaranisArano wrote: »

My issue with one-shots is that they make boss fights very unforgiving and increase the demand for high DPS. It means that groups who have to follow mechanics, i.e. don't have high enough DPS to simply burn, wind up with a more difficult and frustrating fight which requires much greater coordination than a group who can simply burn the boss.

It's one of the reasons why we've seen a demand for higher and higher DPS lately. ZOS' reliance on one shots is driving groups to prefer higher DPS so they can skip the frustrating one shots and avoid having to tightly coordinate with PUGs.

There's a good base game example of this in Darkshade 2 with the Engine Guardian for anyone who avoids DLC dungeons. There's a coordination mechanic with the levers that allows a group to bypass the poison phase if everyone manages it. When me and my IRL friends were learning that fight, we died so many times trying to make it work! Or one person would die, and then we'd be behind on DPS as we had to rez and recover, often leading to a cascade of deaths and a wipe. Then, we looked it up and discovered the other method: let the healer pass the heal check while everyone else burns the boss. Much, much easier! We beat the encounter with no problem.

That's essentially what ZOS is doing with one shots. It becomes more painful for groups to deal with mechanics where a failure can lead to a cascade of deaths or simply put a low DPS group even farther in the hole. It becomes much safer for a group who can simply burn through the mechanics with high DPS.

Ironically, ZOS is widening the gap between ceiling and floor with their own mechanics.

Agree completely with the effect one shots have on lower dps characters and the ability of high dps to bipass mechanics leading to a gulf between players.
It also punishes people with lag whose hit boxes don't move to where they think their character has moved. I remember Fengrush ranting about that when his ping hit 120ms a few years ago in one of the old dungeons and he died while outside of a red aoe one shot. Now think how it feels to half the planet who live with 200ms or worse. It is very hard to learn to 'git gud' if you do the right thing and still die due to an overtuned mechanic designed around a perfect connection.

Interestingly in Cloudrest and Sunspire, even on vet (Basic vet), they seemed to have allowed more response time from the players to the mechanics than in some of the new dlc dungeons. I can actually react to the mechanics in time with lag...unlike in some other content. I hope this is a trend. I am ok with hardmode needing super reflexes and perfect coordination and no lag, but I hope the design of vets becomes a matter of knowledge and which skills to use when, not a matter of connection speed and twitch reflexes. Stack and burn or get one shot after X seconds because the boss has a group one shot is tedious and lazy design. I know games drive computer upgrades but MMORPG games should not be designed around 60 ms ping perfect graphics and a 50 inch screen. Let's leave those requirements for esports, eh?

FierceSam wrote: »

Compare the dragons’ lousy mechanics with those of the iron atronarchs that some of them spawn.

These also have a one shot attack, which is just as deadly as that of the dragon. However, unlike the dragons’ mysterious untelegraphed one shot attacks, those of the Atronarchs are clearly signposted so that a player can actually react to them. The player is then able to determine, through practice whether they can survive the hit, block it or have to dodge roll it.

That is an example of a one shot mechanic done correctly.

There are some fun mechanics in a lot of ESO's group content but I have always noticed a tendency to require instant player responses despite the fact half the players I speak to cannot see the animations before the effect kills them. I don't mean 'don't stand in stupid" obvious ones, but dragons facing one way while killing the players on their opposite side is just stupid. This maybe a bug but it's hard to tell when the animations are unclear or invisible to half the group, at the best of times.

Unavoidable controlled burn mechanics, aggro swapping and debuffs should all be part of normal dungeons to keep them interesting to experienced players and achievable by all players on normal if they follow the mechanics.

The game should also do a better job of explaining the visual cues: even a dungeon walk-through tutorial with NPC's escorting the player and explaining....'oh see him radiate those red lines..we have to interrupt him now! ' to unlock vet might help players bridge the gulf without the devs having to retune everything.

edited for quote catastrophes

Vlad9425

They won’t remove one shot mechanics from current content but they can certainly use less of them in future content if they wanted to but it seems like they do love their one shot mechanics.

Diarf

L2P.

They should make that for every world boss.

Schattenfluegel

Diarf wrote: »

L2P.

They should make that for every world boss.

They should just show the One-Shot Mechanic. Telegraph on the Elswyre Dragons hasnt been shown all the time - this is a known bug. If you got this, then you have to learn to avoid it.

Agalloch

LadyAstrum wrote: »

One-shot mechanics, particularly without warning, are lazy. I don't mind them (or should I say I tolerate them) as long as I have warning to anticipate it coming, but in the case of the dragons, which I mostly enjoy, there are occasions when there is no warning. A bug maybe? Either way, I echo those who say being one-shot from nowhere isn't fun.

This!

Look at the new monk WB . One shots without any warning..telegraph..

One shots even you stay out of AOE.

deleted008293

I don't mind one shoot mechanics but in case of group content (dungeons and raids) it will be really helpful if there will be a learning curve.

Vanos444

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Ysbriel

One shot mechanics are great, nothing more fun than yelling "RUN! HES GONNA SING!" before Domihaus The Bloody-Horned goes full soprano. Nothing better than clutch synergizing that spear while doing Cloudrest for the win.

FierceSam

Ysbriel wrote: »

One shot mechanics are great, nothing more fun than yelling "RUN! HES GONNA SING!" before Domihaus The Bloody-Horned goes full soprano. Nothing better than clutch synergizing that spear while doing Cloudrest for the win.

Yes. However, the difference here is that both of those are clearly telegraphed. There are cues that allow you to anticipate these one shots. The clutch synergy you speak of only works if you can see the AoE approaching.

No indication one shots are no fun and shite game design.

Aznarb

Varana wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

There's a good base game example of this in Darkshade 2 with the Engine Guardian for anyone who avoids DLC dungeons. There's a coordination mechanic with the levers that allows a group to bypass the poison phase if everyone manages it. When me and my IRL friends were learning that fight, we died so many times trying to make it work! Or one person would die, and then we'd be behind on DPS as we had to rez and recover, often leading to a cascade of deaths and a wipe. Then, we looked it up and discovered the other method: let the healer pass the heal check while everyone else burns the boss. Much, much easier! We beat the encounter with no problem.

That's a bad example for one-shots, though - because it isn't. It is a heal check, i.e. it can be healed through, and you get saved not by burning the boss but by a decent healer. More damage will only help you if dps gets so inflated that you can burn the boss before the first poison phase, and I think we're still quite a bit away from that.

I wouldn't call this a "heal check" when one mutagen is enough to pass it.
vHoF or vSS-vAA hm, are healing check.

Sinolai

I am okay with "one-shot"s (although usually the case is that you are not blocking or you lack armour becouse you are not a tank) as long as they are telegraphed. In severeal places the telegraph is bugged and you wont see the attack coming wihtout addons.

Aznarb

Sinolai wrote: »

I am okay with "one-shot"s (although usually the case is that you are not blocking or you lack armour becouse you are not a tank) as long as they are telegraphed. In severeal places the telegraph is bugged and you wont see the attack coming wihtout addons.

I don't have any combat add-on and so far the only bug I've seen is in the vBRP where the bat-swarm did not appear some time, very boring.
BUT, we can see here point her finger and arm in a direction where the aera is gonna be, so we just have to go on the other side.

Ppl who have high ping can have a problem, but it's not a game problem.
It always amuse me to see ppl complaining about "no pattern" OS mech when every boss/add got pattern in this game.
Ppl need to look more at boss instead of add-on and dps meter.