[LibCustomTitles.lua] BEFORE you saw this poll...

Saucy_Jack

I would love to have a custom title, so if any of the authors read this thread, shoot me a PM!

SJ

anitajoneb17_ESO

susmitds wrote: »

It used to be possible to use any text as title till Summerset, they cleaned the database and updated the rules from Summerset. (Not sure whether exactly Summerset though, can be off by one patch)

What / who do you mean by "they" ?
Is it ZOS keeping an eye on stuff ?
Is it the add-on that does an automated check on existing titles ?
Is it the add-on authors ?

Just asking.

starkerealm

susmitds wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

And, yes, this is giving themselves the ability to display titles they haven't earned.

@starkerealm This part is wrong actually. You can only use it to display custom made titles which are specifically not the game. The addon does not allow any title ingame to be used. Anyone attempting to use one has their approval removed.

This is, actually, incorrect, as at least one entry I remember has selected a real, earnable, in-game title as their custom title. While the addon generally creates entirely new titles, they could (and have) used that to brag about accomplishments they hadn't actually achieved.

That is definitely an edge-case and most probably got removed in their next check.

The reason I know is that I had been the title "God Slayer" as a custom title for my NB PvP char since years and as soon as Elsweyr added the Godslayer title, my custom title got removed and had to be replaced to something different.

It used to be possible to use any text as title till Summerset, they cleaned the database and updated the rules from Summerset. (Not sure whether exactly Summerset though, can be off by one patch)

I remember you, but I was actually thinking of someone who had a Trial related title as their custom title up until the format change rendered the library non-readable. Now, sure, maybe it got changed later, but that's still two years of bragging, and not even on a title that didn't exist yet.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

I would love to have a custom title, so if any of the authors read this thread, shoot me a PM!

SJ

I'd gladly grant you the custom title of "Lawrence Schick's Revival Band". Provided it's "official", not sneaky xD

starkerealm

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

It used to be possible to use any text as title till Summerset, they cleaned the database and updated the rules from Summerset. (Not sure whether exactly Summerset though, can be off by one patch)

What / who do you mean by "they" ?
Is it ZOS keeping an eye on stuff ?
Is it the add-on that does an automated check on existing titles ?
Is it the add-on authors ?

Just asking.

It's not even the addon author, that was Ayantir. Kyoma was running it for awhile. Currently it's Dolgubon. So, while it's possible Dolgubon has cracked down on the excesses of the prior authors, there is zero oversight on what goes in.

Actually, it's a bit more messed up than that, because ZOS has no capacity to oversee it. All of this stuff is injected client side. So if you got a someone picking up the project in the future, you could even see them using this functionality to harass people they didn't like. Someone wanted to use this functionality to replace your title with something perjorative, you couldn't do anything about it, and while the current version is designed to require you to set a title, that's not necessary from an architecture standpoint. The addon is entirely capable of overwriting your displayed title, whatever you pick. Important to understand in this case, though, the pejorative title would only be visible to people who had that addon installed, but, if you bundle it into something like Skyshards (and, yes, this is bundled in with Skyshards), anyone running that addon would see your "new" title, against your will, and you couldn't even report someone for it.

This addon is, at best, an "it hasn't been abused yet," situation. It's really more in the, "yes, there were abuses in the past, but we've put that behind us," range.

starkerealm

max_only wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I've watched a couple of the individuals on the customtitles.lib shut down these threads before by coming in and being extremely passive aggressive until someone bites.

I know what this is.

I know what they've done.

I know how to shut this down.

Player titles should not be API accessible. Where the title displays? Sure, but accessing the title itself should be a protected function because of these derps.

The solution to getting rid of an unwanted addon is another addon lol

Poll answer:
I know what it is, I’ve never seen a custom title, I don’t care.

There are only 285 people in the game with custom titles. I've actually seen these pop up, but they are vanishingly rare.

At the same time, this is malware. Someone slipped an extra addon into multiple addons you use, in order to make themselves sound cooler than they are. From a programing standpoint, this behavior is ****ing vile.

JamieAubrey

Why is this such a big deal ? Not like its hurting anyone and if you actually read the rules of getting one, YOU CANT have a title already in the game, so you couldn't get Godslayer or Grand Overlord, and not like mine is hurting anyone, I use it on my necro as it fits

What you see if you also use it


and if you don't you will just see Volunteer

susmitds

@anitajoneb17_ESO

When Ayantir initially made the addon, the way to obtain was to message him and you could really get any text you wished as a title and you could obtain multiple titles per account.

Ever since, Dolgubon started maintaining it, he realized from complaints that there were two primary issues with the issues with the addon. One was as @starkerealm said that people could fake ingame titles with it. The other one was having multiple replacement titles per account and the ever increasing number of people who wanted to use it meant sooner or later the database will be so large that it will exceed LUA memory allocations per library. So he essentially remade the library with new rules for opting in. More on the process later.

@starkerealm I agree with you that using it to mimic ingame titles is pretty scummy. Now that you mention it, I do remember certain people were using it to replace "Former Emperor" with "Emperor". While I did realize their motivations behind it, I didn't agree with it both from an ethical standpoint and a gameplay standpoint, as having multiple Emperors pop up in various places in Cyrodiil could potentially confuse the other alliances to the true location of the real one, impeding faction strategies.

@SirAndy The addon author originally created the addon as another way to customize your character. While in the past, you could do potentially abuse it for bragging rights, the current implementation block that. Let me elaborate how.

Right now, the way to get a Custom Title is much stricter than the original implementation. Now, you can only replace either Volunteer or vet trial HM titles, Flawless Conqueror, Master Angler, Grand Overload and other much well-sought titles. Basically you can choose to use Volunteer, which means for anybody not using the library, you will show up as the lowest Alliance rank, which is counter-productive to "epeen". Or you will have to give up titles like "Voice of Reason", "Dro m'athra Destroyer", "Tick-Tock Tormentor" which are very rare and hold much more bragging rights than a Custom title, which is again counter-productive to "epeen".

Also, now Dolgubon made it so that you can get only account bound or single character titles and as well limiting the replaceable titles to high value titles, which also serves as a way to decrease required space for the database.

There was still an issue that if the library was perfectly optimized, it only support a very small number of accounts compared to the entire playerbase(which can be anything like 500 to 1000 total accounts, as every account added counted the max memory cutoff). So he limited Custom Title to content creators, streamers, guild masters and officer, known raid leads, testers, theorycrafters and other community contributors which cuts down significantly on the number of eligible users. However, to still allow normal players to have a shot at getting a custom title, the new rules allow characters with more than a certain playtime to have a chance to obtaining one. Note that this required playtime is much higher than most average players can obtain playing normally so it still works as an entrance bar.

Lastly, most people who use it, use it as an way to make their character stand out especially in PvP or because they want a certain title that they find awesome but is not available ingame. For me, the character name I wanted(I use in every other game and account) was taken and using alternate phonetic characters didn't feel right so custom titles was like another shot at it.

starkerealm

Lauranae wrote: »

Actually lets correct something : this is not a hidden addon. It can be installed as standalone. As simple as that.
Its still embedded in some addons, but most of the time with an older version and because the authors dont think about it when they actually update their own addon.

"It's not a hidden addon," even though it's installed covertly by many popular addons that do not acknowledge its existence in their documentation.

"It's not a hidden addon," even though the actual .lua file's text was altered to be non-user readable after a similar thread last year.

"It's not a hidden addon," even though it does not appear in the addons option menu, and is presented as a seamless integration into the game, to the point that users question whether the titles they're seeing are legitimate or not.

Yeah, I don't know, "hidden," sounds like a pretty good way to discribe that.

starkerealm

susmitds wrote: »

@starkerealm I agree with you that using it to mimic ingame titles is pretty scummy. Now that you mention it, I do remember certain people were using it to replace "Former Emperor" with "Emperor". While I did realize their motivations behind it, I didn't agree with it both from an ethical standpoint and a gameplay standpoint, as having multiple Emperors pop up in various places in Cyrodiil could potentially confuse the other alliances to the true location of the real one, impeding faction strategies.

Going from memory, there were the Emperors you mentioned. One person who'd pulled the Executioner and Silencer. Now, in their defense, I think they used those titles before Dark Brotherhood released, however those were still attached to their account as of June 2018. I think there was also a Librarian, again, predating Morrowind, but the title survived past the release of Summerset.

Beyond that, I'm somewhat confidant there was a Mageslayer, though I think, in that case, it was technically an attempt to alter the Mageslayer title to have a multicolor effect. However, that's still replacing Volunteer with a Vet Trial Completion title, even if it is an easy one.

In @Dolgubon's defense, I think he's handled this addon about as ethically as possible, given the circumstances, and the legacy he started with. However, as I've said, I have extreme reservations about its existence at all. For something like this to exist, it should be through the studio itself, not through an addon.

If ZOS said they would audit special, single use titles, for VIP community members, cool. It's their show, their choice, and there are a lot of people who you could say deserve some kind of special recognition. However, putting that in the hands of an addon author, especially with the way @Ayantir ran the project, and the entire covert installation base, has left me seriously suspicious of this addon.

Saucy_Jack

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

I would love to have a custom title, so if any of the authors read this thread, shoot me a PM!

SJ

I'd gladly grant you the custom title of "Lawrence Schick's Revival Band". Provided it's "official", not sneaky xD

If you're actually in a position to add me to the list, I'd go for "PIE KING", all caps of course.

deleted008293

Long story short, people that are unknown, new, or less desirable in this community can not obtain a custom title. One more reason that this situation can be easily abused. What does it stop someone to befriend the add-ons authors and coerce them into giving them a custom title?

I know that I can apply myself as well but few years ago while I was looking to get myself a fancy custom title as well. I was denied. Which only point out toward the direction of an abusive implementation by add-on developers. I know that developing add-ons, creating builds, guilds, whatever contribution some people did for this game is a really thought work. But I wanted to point out one of the abusive situations that happened to me and I think the idea of having custom titles must be seriously taken into considerations by ZOS.

This situation never bothered me until last year when I joined together with few friends on the PTS server for a test run as a tank, into a new content, vCR0+1. A large part of this team had custom titles, next to their names. As a result one of my friends was lured and deceived to join this team after I was pushed out after just two raids on the test server, in what I call one of the most unfriendly, unhealthy and toxic ways possible. This team did not let me raid together with my friend anymore since that day. This happened right on my birthday. Now only me and my friend knew about it and we simply did not wanted to influence the outcome of the raid, nor ruin what it was one of my best days from my life.

As a result, since we joined that team, my friend did not wanted to raid with me anymore in same team, and spend far less time together than before as her evenings were always full.We couldn't raid, do dungeons, furnish, talk or enjoy the game which caused me great grief. She then stated that my performances were bad as a result of the toxicity, blames and judgement of some of the players of that team. Although those players with nice titles next to their name might have nothing to do with this situation, the statement remain, my friend was simply influenced by them, thinking that this is somewhat a very good and friendly team.

Why do I consider the above situation was unfair, rude, toxic and immature was because being a key role or not, I was not allowed to progress and improve but judged after 2 raids in a content new to all of us. I was not given a proper trial period consisting of at least 2-3 weeks given the facts. I was made fun off during the raid. I was responded in a very unfriendly manner every time I tried to rejoin. I was blamed for mistakes and not helped to learn nor improve. I was split from my friend. I was bullied and trash talked in their team. I was even told after I got removed from the team that they simply already had a tank in their team but he/she did not wanted to join the test server and the fact that I was recruiting people for their team was just as convenient for them.

All this situation caused me great grief, drama and delved me into deep depression from whom I still did not recovered. Also as a result of this toxic behavior from this particular team I was unable to continue raiding in the end game scene. I'm not here to look for vCR3 but for justice.

Dusk_Coven

Lauranae wrote: »

Actually lets correct something : this is not a hidden addon. It can be installed as standalone. As simple as that.

If it were that simple, they could promote it just like any other AddOn and let people eyes-wide-open choose to install it as a standalone.
But that's not the case. So maybe there's more to this?

The part that's puzzling is how the participation of others who have no interest in the AddOn is necessary. The people with the AddOn and who got their custom title have what they want. And they can't really know if someone else can see their custom title or not unless someone asks them about it.

starkerealm

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Lauranae wrote: »

Actually lets correct something : this is not a hidden addon. It can be installed as standalone. As simple as that.

If it were that simple, they could promote it just like any other AddOn and let people eyes-wide-open choose to install it as a standalone.
But that's not the case. So maybe there's more to this?

The part that's puzzling is how the participation of others who have no interest in the AddOn is necessary. The people with the AddOn and who got their custom title have what they want. And they can't really know if someone else can see their custom title or not unless someone asks them about it.

So, the custom title exists client side. You can't write an addon that changes your title for me. Like, there's no way to go in, install an addon, and change your title to "YOUR ONE TRUE IGUANAMANCER!" That's not possible.

However, if I install an addon, I can change your title to, "Iguanamancer."

This is because the installed addons alter your UI, on your system. They cannot alter other player's UIs.

So, in order for me to see your Iguanamancer title, you need to find a way to install your addon on my PC.

That's where LibCustomTitles.lua comes in. If I install it, now I see your title as Iguanamancer.

So, you need to either convince people to install the custom title addon... or, "convince" them by bundling it into another addon.

So, I install Skyshards, or Lazy Writ Crafter, or any of a dozen other addons, and suddenly, you are the one true Iguanamancer. Long may you reign.

Michae

How about I don't care?

DarcyMardin

Never heard of it before reading the other thread today. But I am going to figure out how to turn it off. I hate the idea of stuff being added to my computer without my knowledge.

starkerealm

@DarcyMardin: https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1765-DisableCustomTitles.html

It won't, technically, remove it, but it will sabotage it. The only downside is, libCustomTitles.lua is pretty tenacious. So simply deleting it only works until you use Minion to update your addons again.

DarcyMardin

starkerealm wrote: »

@DarcyMardin: https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1765-DisableCustomTitles.html

It won't, technically, remove it, but it will sabotage it. The only downside is, libCustomTitles.lua is pretty tenacious. So simply deleting it only works until you use Minion to update your addons again.

Thanks very much for the info!

jainiadral

Can this thing be used to grief anyone? Say a player annoys them, then all of a sudden the player base with the add-on installed sees the player called, "Jerkwad?" Unless you obsessively monitor your own titles, they're pretty much invisible to you when you're in-game.

starkerealm

jainiadral wrote: »

Can this thing be used to grief anyone? Say a player annoys them, then all of a sudden the player base with the add-on installed sees the player called, "Jerkwad?" Unless you obsessively monitor your own titles, they're pretty much invisible to you when you're in-game.

Yep. Has it been? No idea. But it certainly could.

Bonus points there because ZOS washes their hands of addons for the most part, so you couldn't even report a player over it.

jainiadral

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Can this thing be used to grief anyone? Say a player annoys them, then all of a sudden the player base with the add-on installed sees the player called, "Jerkwad?" Unless you obsessively monitor your own titles, they're pretty much invisible to you when you're in-game.

Yep. Has it been? No idea. But it certainly could.

Bonus points there because ZOS washes their hands of addons for the most part, so you couldn't even report a player over it.

Greaaaaat. I guess I'm going to have to see if Map Pins is good enough to totally take the place of Skyshards. All the crafting stuff I found the library in is going to be a headache to do without

Thanks for the info This whole thing has been perversely enlightening.

starkerealm

jainiadral wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Can this thing be used to grief anyone? Say a player annoys them, then all of a sudden the player base with the add-on installed sees the player called, "Jerkwad?" Unless you obsessively monitor your own titles, they're pretty much invisible to you when you're in-game.

Yep. Has it been? No idea. But it certainly could.

Bonus points there because ZOS washes their hands of addons for the most part, so you couldn't even report a player over it.

Greaaaaat. I guess I'm going to have to see if Map Pins is good enough to totally take the place of Skyshards. All the crafting stuff I found the library in is going to be a headache to do without

Thanks for the info This whole thing has been perversely enlightening.

That's the worst part, just because you're not using the addon, you're not protected from that kind of abuse. If someone were to stick an abusive title into the system (and bypass the structure that locks it to specific titles, so it's just a permanent override), anyone who had it installed would see that. Whether you were using the addon or not.

jainiadral

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Can this thing be used to grief anyone? Say a player annoys them, then all of a sudden the player base with the add-on installed sees the player called, "Jerkwad?" Unless you obsessively monitor your own titles, they're pretty much invisible to you when you're in-game.

Yep. Has it been? No idea. But it certainly could.

Bonus points there because ZOS washes their hands of addons for the most part, so you couldn't even report a player over it.

Greaaaaat. I guess I'm going to have to see if Map Pins is good enough to totally take the place of Skyshards. All the crafting stuff I found the library in is going to be a headache to do without

Thanks for the info This whole thing has been perversely enlightening.

That's the worst part, just because you're not using the addon, you're not protected from that kind of abuse. If someone were to stick an abusive title into the system (and bypass the structure that locks it to specific titles, so it's just a permanent override), anyone who had it installed would see that. Whether you were using the addon or not.

Welp, let me upgrade my mental assessment from PUP to malware. Damn. I hope ZOS sees this and removes this function from being modifiable.

bearbelly

I know what it is. I know I have it; I know I didn't choose to have it. I know I only have it because people who are far too impressed with themselves snuck it into several add-ons and I use at least one of those add-ons.

I don't use titles myself, and I don't pay attention to titles other people have, and I am not impressed by the people who think sneaking it into add-ons is clever, and unless and until its presence interferes with my gameplay, I don't care.

jainiadral

FYI, here's a shot of my map with Skyshards removed, and using the Map Pins add-on. Looks like you don't need it after all. The crafting add-ons are another story... grrrrrr



Editing: I don't know if this impacts the compass or not. I'm using Minimap by Fyrkin, and I think Map Pins show up on that.
Editing again: compass works fine, but somehow my minimap is broken. Ugh. Installed Votan's. It works and shows map pins too, despite the description.

RaddlemanNumber7

Add-on writers putting undocumented features into their code? Who ever would have thought it possible

[/sarcasm]

While not the most important, this is one of the reasons why I've never ever used any add-ons in this game and never will.

xxthir13enxx

What I find interesting is the idea that ppl actually look at others...I honestly never pay attention and have my own always set to none displayed.

Sylvermynx

This is the reason I download and install addons manually. I refuse to use front-ends like NMM (in Skyrim) or Minion (in ESO). I go through the libraries before installing, and anywhere I find this one, I delete it.

Oakmontowls_ESO

I could care less about this, it's not hurting anyone.

Girl_Number8

Idc and I don't step on someone elses fun when it really doesn't affect the game or me.