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Concerning the use of gender-specific armor
BlissfulDeluge
✭✭✭✭✭
This might be seen as low-effort, and I was gonna write an essay on the validity of gendered armor, but I don't have the time for it. So here's a TL;DR version of that.
I'm not gonna ask to change cloth-/leather-armor that necessitates different armor versions for men and women to cover up certain fEaTuReS, but honestly, can we get to see less of the tittyplate-trope? Some gender-neutral armor?
Preferably I'd like to see all heavy armor replaced with the gender-neutral male version with the flat chest, since any heavy armor worn has gambesons beneath, which make tittyshapes redundant, no matter how aesthetically pleasing they may or may not be. This wouldn't be a difficult task, logistically speaking, because the models for flat-chested armor already exist. You'd just have to make male versions of heavy armor appear on both male and female characters.
If gender-neutral armor is too big a request, I'd like to see male armor given codpieces and muscle cuirasses, to ensure equality in regards to sexualized armor.
Thoughts? Opinions? IMO it should be done.
I'm not gonna ask to change cloth-/leather-armor that necessitates different armor versions for men and women to cover up certain fEaTuReS, but honestly, can we get to see less of the tittyplate-trope? Some gender-neutral armor?
Preferably I'd like to see all heavy armor replaced with the gender-neutral male version with the flat chest, since any heavy armor worn has gambesons beneath, which make tittyshapes redundant, no matter how aesthetically pleasing they may or may not be. This wouldn't be a difficult task, logistically speaking, because the models for flat-chested armor already exist. You'd just have to make male versions of heavy armor appear on both male and female characters.
If gender-neutral armor is too big a request, I'd like to see male armor given codpieces and muscle cuirasses, to ensure equality in regards to sexualized armor.
Thoughts? Opinions? IMO it should be done.
Former completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.
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Yuffie91✭✭✭✭✭No. I want to kick ass and still look womanly doing so! Also eso is not near as bad as other games.62 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Armour in ESO is not about Armour. It’s totally fashion.
However, if players want to have gender neutral armour for their characters, for whatever reason, that should be an option.
Just as players who want to wear more female armour should get more well designed armour style too.7 -
Zulera301✭✭✭✭✭there's over 75 style motifs in the game, and there's a handful of them that don't have titty armour.
I once made a thread about how there should be a few more options that show off a bit of leg (Im more thinking lighter or maybe medium ones though), but that's beside the point.
it seems the religious Orcs were fairly good at keeping heavy armour practical and gender neutral. Malacath heavy has a curve for a woman's chest, without molding boobs out of steel or anything. Trinimac is even better because it's thicker and covers more, and while there's still a curve to (appropriately) account for the different dimensions of a woman's chest, it's otherwise flat and practical.
I know Mercenary also showcases some cool, mostly-practical looking armour without boob-shapes, and I think there's a few others. Order of the Hour heavy has a notable chest curve, but kind of keeps it more of an arch rather than moulding two spheres onto it. (even the heavy armour kind of looks more lightweight/medium though).
Ergo, there are options, although I do kind of agree that it'd be nice if there were more options, kinda like the showing of skin.Edited by Zulera301 on October 12, 2019 8:41AMShortly after the formation of the Ebonheart Pact, a Nord woman was given a tour of the Tribunal Temple. When later asked about the experience, she seemed upset. Suffice to say, the Dunmer were not pleased to hear this, and thus they inquired further.
"Well," the Nord frowned, "the priests were very angry and unwelcoming. They kept shouting things at me like "you can't drink that mead in here!" and "somebody stop her, she's running naked!" and "we can't catch her; she's covered in grease!""12 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As a female myself, I honestly have no problem with ESO having some skimpier outfits. The one huge reason I don’t mind it here is that the skimpiness of those styles applies to male characters as well. It’s a rarity to see that in MMOs. Usually it’s women are skimpy, men are fully armored. ESO lets everyone be either or. I do say that breast-shaped armor styles are a lot less prevalent the past few years in ESO. The older styles have that issue tho.For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR24 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BlissfulDelusions wrote: »This might be seen as low-effort, and I was gonna write an essay on the validity of gendered armor, but I don't have the time for it. So here's a TL;DR version of that.
I'm not gonna ask to change cloth-/leather-armor that necessitates different armor versions for men and women to cover up certain fEaTuReS, but honestly, can we get to see less of the tittyplate-trope? Some gender-neutral armor?
Preferably I'd like to see all heavy armor replaced with the gender-neutral male version with the flat chest, since any heavy armor worn has gambesons beneath, which make tittyshapes redundant, no matter how aesthetically pleasing they may or may not be. This wouldn't be a difficult task, logistically speaking, because the models for flat-chested armor already exist. You'd just have to make male versions of heavy armor appear on both male and female characters.
If gender-neutral armor is too big a request, I'd like to see male armor given codpieces and muscle cuirasses, to ensure equality in regards to sexualized armor.
Thoughts? Opinions? IMO it should be done.
booooooooooring
if you want a realistic medieval game, play one...
If you want over the top asian style, go play that...
ESO finds a nice middle ground.
Besides, male armor that is nit somehat redesigned to fit female bodies look like shttt on them...Edited by Nemesis7884 on October 12, 2019 10:06AM10 -
AzraelKrieg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sounds like you're asking for more realism in the armour. In that case, less body forming armour, more cod pieces!Gold Dragons Guildmaster PC-NACR2000+Kalthar Wolf-Brother – EP Templar - 50 Maeli Valen - EP NB - 50Naps-During-Trials – EP Templar - 50Rulnakh - EP Sorc - 50Azrael Krieg - EP NB – 50Uvithasa Telvanni – EP DK – 50More-Tail - EP Warden - 50Narile Galen - EP Sorc - 50Bone Soldier - EP Necro - 50Naps-During-Trails - EP Necro - 505 -
vibeborn✭✭✭✭✭No. I want to kick ass and still look womanly doing so! Also eso is not near as bad as other games.
This. I remember seeing a woman protagonist from another game who didn't look womanly at all, and they probably made her look the way they did to not sexualize her but I thought what's the point of trying, if you're not gonna try anyway? Other games are the complete opposite, and I kind of hate both things
I like ESO for the choices it has, you can look like a woman without being sexualized, and you can wear armour without looking like a man
Like someone else said, if you want a gender neutral look, go for the armour that flattens the chest (or flatten it during the character creation)
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Sasyk✭✭✭God please no. Zeni already got lazy once when orsinuim came out and did away with female armor. The end result was every set that came out afterwards (All faction specific, trinimac, malacath etc.) looked like absolute trash and there was a huge outrage about it.
Never again. To this day those armor sets still look like unmitigated eye cancer and they even went back and made slightly edited female variants cause they looked so bad. It didn't help much but at least they did something.Sasyk Ik-ce - Spacey Ricochet - Swaggette - Andrea Ik-ce - Avari Lebe - Rubi Malone - Amaryllis Fox - Sergeant Moxy - Moon Unit Zoey - Retro Betty - Emmanuelle Sinclair
Nightfighters - Sempiternal Way - Macro and Cheese9 -
Saelent✭✭✭✭✭Being a somewhat flat chested female myself, I couldn’t care less if the metal boob coverings were flat or a bit curved...
BUT GIVE ME BACK MY ORIGINAL SEXY REDGUARD OUTFIT!!!14 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Being a somewhat flat chested female myself, I couldn’t care less if the metal boob coverings were flat or a bit curved...
BUT GIVE ME BACK MY ORIGINAL SEXY REDGUARD OUTFIT!!!
I get that the art team wanted to clean up the Redguard and Orc textures, but the Redguard armor lost so much personality in the process on Light and Medium gear. Redguard heavy was a straight upgrade. But, Light and Medium? Not so much.3 -
Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm not in favor of changing all of it, because I've never used any of the big bulky looking chest pieces, but it's definitely good to have more of that option for those who want it. I guess ideally an option to just use the male one on female chats, would be good. And the other way around, why not?
It's the eternal lady struggle -- don't wanna support unrealistic armor for women, but damnit it looks nicer.
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logarifmik✭✭✭✭✭
✭[removed quote]
It's not about SJ at all. It's about logic behind real so-called "heavy" armor.
Edited by ZOS_JesC on October 13, 2019 12:35PMEU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant8 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭[removed quote]
It's not about SJ at all. It's about logic behind real so-called "heavy" armor.[/quote]
Logic vs visual appeal? Guess which one wins in a fantasy universe...
I quite like how some heavy armours make my character more feminine
Edited by ZOS_JesC on October 13, 2019 12:35PM4 -
Coatmagic✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are a few styles that smooth over the lady bits also, have ya tried maybe... not making your chars bumps and curves so obvious...?
Otherwise, nope, nothing wrong with the armor. They've already changed two of the most popular vanilla armors and they look like crap now, so please NO.4 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭logarifmik wrote: »[removed quote]
It's not about SJ at all. It's about logic behind real so-called "heavy" armor.
This is a fantasy game not real life. Dont compare the two.Edited by ZOS_JesC on October 13, 2019 12:36PM6 -
SipofMaim✭✭✭✭Options are good.
Reworking existing armors would just *** people off, but they add new styles all the time, no reason utilitarian heavy armor can't be in the mix. If they can do a chapter of enormous hip and shoulder cage things (clockwork) they have the power.
I hope if you get your wish they do them right, though. I think we already have enough of that low effort pigeon-chest garbo they put out a while back, if that's anybody's jam.
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I don't understand the fascination with wanting female characters to look like men. The design may be unrealistic but then again, >90% of armor in the past was designed for men so who knows what styles/designs might have risen, just a thought.
Overall, the armors in this game are very conservative considering other MMOs.
IMO, the armors with the giant bowed chest plate look ridiculous. The male armor accentuates the male figure, why should the female armor not also do the same?11 -
Rukia541✭✭✭✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »[removed quote]
Look, women don’t neccesarily want their characters’ melons hanging out in a chainmail bikini or breasts be the focal point of female characters, aka being unneedingly sexualized. I feel you’re the kind of person who complains about male characters being able to wear dresses.
Male dresses in MY ESO?
*crusade intensifies*Edited by ZOS_JesC on October 13, 2019 12:36PM5 -
Ragged_Claw✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm all for adding more options. I prefer a bit of shape personally, I don't like my girls to look like they're wearing buckets. What annoys me are the costumes that don't actually scale to your characters shape, e.g. the wedding dress that gives my flat-chested altmer big saggy boobs. On the whole I think ESO does a pretty good job, the outfit system allows for a lot of creativity. But more options are always a good thing.PC EU & NA7 -
logarifmik✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And how beautiful piece of Jeanne d'Arc armor is not visually appealing to you, I wonder? Only because it doesn't demonstrate some obvious women... things? Bah! Do you ever gave a thought, why real breastplates have such bulgy shape? There is certain logic behind it, which keeps its users alive, I mind you.logarifmik wrote: »[removed quote]
It's not about SJ at all. It's about logic behind real so-called "heavy" armor.
Logic vs visual appeal? Guess which one wins in a fantasy universe...
I quite like how some heavy armours make my character more feminine
To cut it short, there is quite comprehensive video regarding the issue on Shadiversity channel.Edited by ZOS_JesC on October 13, 2019 12:37PMEU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭logarifmik wrote: »
And how beautiful piece of Jeanne d'Arc armor is not visually appealing to you, I wonder? Only because it doesn't demonstrate some obvious women... things? Bah! Do you ever gave a thought, why real breastplates have such bulgy shape? There is certain logic behind it, which keeps its users alive, I mind you.logarifmik wrote: »It's not about SJ at all. It's about logic behind real so-called "heavy" armor.
Logic vs visual appeal? Guess which one wins in a fantasy universe...
I quite like how some heavy armours make my character more feminine
To cut it short, there is quite comprehensive video regarding the issue on Shadiversity channel.
What?! I never said I didn't find the portrait visually appealing.I was just saying that the point of logic has no place in a fantasy universe...logarifmik wrote: »
Why?KillsAllElves wrote: »logarifmik wrote: »
This is a fantasy game not real life. Dont compare the two.
I mean... duh... magic!
Talking cats!
For the record, hetero female here -- There are plenty of armours that adhere more to the logic than don't -- and those which are skimpy, are skimpy for both genders. The few that ingratiate the female form are very nice. I personally feel the female form should be celebrated... and that is what I do when I select the motifs for my character's armour.
Edit to add:
The male form should be celebrated equally. Codpieces for all!Edited by ZOS_JesC on October 13, 2019 12:38PM9 -
logarifmik✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And how beautiful piece of Jeanne d'Arc armor is not visually appealing to you, I wonder? Only because it doesn't demonstrate some obvious women... things? Bah! Do you ever gave a thought, why real breastplates have such bulgy shape? There is certain logic behind it, which keeps its users alive, I mind you.logarifmik wrote: »
To cut it short, there is quite comprehensive video regarding the issue on Shadiversity channel.
What?! I never said I didn't find the portrait visually appealing.I was just saying that the point of logic has no place in a fantasy universe...logarifmik wrote: »
Why?KillsAllElves wrote: »logarifmik wrote: »It's not about SJ at all. It's about logic behind real so-called "heavy" armor.
This is a fantasy game not real life. Dont compare the two.
I mean... duh... magic!
For the record, hetero female here -- There are plenty of armours that adhere more to the logic than don't -- and those which are skimpy, are skimpy for both genders. The few that ingratiate the female form are very nice. I personally feel the female form should be celebrated... and that is what I do when I select the motifs for my character's armour. [/quote]
Magic means there is no place for logic. Okay, lets just leave it like that, but I strongly disagree with such an approach to fantasy.
I'm not against female fantasy armor and such, though I like to see, when an artist put some thought behind the concept he created, that he was driven not only by some subjective ideas of aesthetics. That's what I'm talking about.Edited by ZOS_JesC on October 13, 2019 12:38PMEU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BlissfulDelusions wrote: »This might be seen as low-effort, and I was gonna write an essay on the validity of gendered armor, but I don't have the time for it. So here's a TL;DR version of that.
I'm not gonna ask to change cloth-/leather-armor that necessitates different armor versions for men and women to cover up certain fEaTuReS, but honestly, can we get to see less of the tittyplate-trope? Some gender-neutral armor?
Preferably I'd like to see all heavy armor replaced with the gender-neutral male version with the flat chest, since any heavy armor worn has gambesons beneath, which make tittyshapes redundant, no matter how aesthetically pleasing they may or may not be. This wouldn't be a difficult task, logistically speaking, because the models for flat-chested armor already exist. You'd just have to make male versions of heavy armor appear on both male and female characters.
If gender-neutral armor is too big a request, I'd like to see male armor given codpieces and muscle cuirasses, to ensure equality in regards to sexualized armor.
Thoughts? Opinions? IMO it should be done.
Everthing from imperial city motif through wrothgar war gender neutral armor no boobieplates etc daggerfall, ebonheart, mercenary, aldmeri style could barely tell gender of character. Also players like you are why we lost the
Original reguard and original orc motif styles and got the elven hero armor thighs censored always got something to be ticked about when it comes to visuals...6 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭logarifmik wrote: »
Magic means there is no place for logic. Okay, lets just leave it like that, but I strongly disagree with such an approach to fantasy.logarifmik wrote: »
And how beautiful piece of Jeanne d'Arc armor is not visually appealing to you, I wonder? Only because it doesn't demonstrate some obvious women... things? Bah! Do you ever gave a thought, why real breastplates have such bulgy shape? There is certain logic behind it, which keeps its users alive, I mind you.logarifmik wrote: »It's not about SJ at all. It's about logic behind real so-called "heavy" armor.
Logic vs visual appeal? Guess which one wins in a fantasy universe...
I quite like how some heavy armours make my character more feminine
To cut it short, there is quite comprehensive video regarding the issue on Shadiversity channel.
What?! I never said I didn't find the portrait visually appealing.I was just saying that the point of logic has no place in a fantasy universe...logarifmik wrote: »
Why?KillsAllElves wrote: »logarifmik wrote: »It's not about SJ at all. It's about logic behind real so-called "heavy" armor.
This is a fantasy game not real life. Dont compare the two.
I mean... duh... magic!
For the record, hetero female here -- There are plenty of armours that adhere more to the logic than don't -- and those which are skimpy, are skimpy for both genders. The few that ingratiate the female form are very nice. I personally feel the female form should be celebrated... and that is what I do when I select the motifs for my character's armour.
I'm not against female fantasy armor and such, though I like to see, when an artist put some thought behind the concept he created, that he was driven not only by some subjective ideas of aesthetics. That's what I'm talking about.
The armour in this game can be as functional or aesthetic as the player chooses. That's my point.Edited by ZOS_JesC on October 13, 2019 12:39PM2 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's fantasy so I don't think it benefits us to start concerning ourselves with armor being realistic. I'd trot my character out there butt naked and pretend he's just "Superman" if I had the option to hide all his gear.3
This discussion has been closed.