Will New Moon Acolyte overperform? [NOT A NERF THREAD BUT A DISCUSSION THREAD]

Weisstag

EDIT: since it looks like most of you don't understand what a non-bias discussion is I edited the title, both pool options are completely unbiased, all this thread does is collect different views and opinions on discussed matter

Please share your thoughts in the comments if you vote, iam really interested in what other people think.

New Moon Acolyte
2 – 833 Weapon and Spell Critical
3 – 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – 1487 Physical and Spell Penetration
5 – Adds 481 Weapon and Spell Damage. Increase the cost of your active abilities by 5%.

What do you think about this set? I don't think we addressed it enough to be honest. I think it provides way too much for too little in exchange (5% cost increase on active abilities feels like a joke compared to what It offers).

Sets like Innate axiom, Briar hearth (only the healing makes it feel still as a viable option) , hunding's rage, julianos, warmaiden, automaton.... (I think you see the pattern now) feel underwhelming compared to this set if you build your character right.

Dominion_Nightblade

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

The only way this set will be good is if you are a ganker, or are zerg surfing and only engaging in quick battles for pvp. Any long battle will notice the 5% over time for sure. The only way I see myself running this set is on my over sustained nightblade in a CP enabled environment. Besides that, I wont touch this set.

ThePedge

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

Shhh

Mayrael

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

Sorry to ruin your bubble mate but since when stat based sets are so OP we nerf them before going live?

You ever heard of alteration mastery set?

(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) Reduces the cost of all of your abilities by 6%.

Now look on both sets. NMA gives you penalty almost equal to this 5 pc bonus, so in the end you get almost nothing from this set when math is done. If you have already toped damage and can't go any lower on sustain this set will force you to use more sustain which in the end leads to balancing things out.

This is very well designed set for once!

Weisstag

Yes it will outshine sets with similar bonuses in its current state

Dominion_Nightblade wrote: »

The only way this set will be good is if you are a ganker, or are zerg surfing and only engaging in quick battles for pvp. Any long battle will notice the 5% over time for sure. The only way I see myself running this set is on my over sustained nightblade in a CP enabled environment. Besides that, I wont touch this set.

iam already oversustaining with full damage build on my pvp raid built stamden, this will just add to my already tarded burst. Tried it on pts and it didn't feel bad at all if I kept up netch

Weisstag

Yes it will outshine sets with similar bonuses in its current state

Mayrael wrote: »

This is very well designed set for once!

Stamden says otherwise

Dominion_Nightblade

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

Weisstag wrote: »

Dominion_Nightblade wrote: »

The only way this set will be good is if you are a ganker, or are zerg surfing and only engaging in quick battles for pvp. Any long battle will notice the 5% over time for sure. The only way I see myself running this set is on my over sustained nightblade in a CP enabled environment. Besides that, I wont touch this set.

iam already oversustaining with full damage build on my pvp raid built stamden, this will just add to my already tarded burst. Tried it on pts and it didn't feel bad at all if I kept up netch

How exactly did you try this set? On some ezpz pve mobs? A target dummy? Sure it seems better in those situations. But any long duel against a good player will eventually result in you dying over sustain issues. Either way, let it go live before we ask to nerf it.

Weisstag

Yes it will outshine sets with similar bonuses in its current state

Dominion_Nightblade wrote: »

How exactly did you try this set? On some ezpz pve mobs? A target dummy? Sure it seems better in those situations. But any long duel against a good player will eventually result in you dying over sustain issues. Either way, let it go live before we ask to nerf it.

Took 6 3m dummies and fought until I ran out of resources. Well this set will be mostly used in organised groups, iam not planning on dueling people with this haha... but this way I can keep up 7k Weapon damage much more reliably... would push me over 15k Penetration also...

themaddaedra

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

I love when people take %5 as a joke. Ask it to a magicka dd who had lots of experience with and withour Worm's buff

Also must note thay they icreased the costs by a lot for next patch. There's no way a %5 cost increase on top of what we already had can be called a very little exchange.

Dominion_Nightblade

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

Weisstag wrote: »

Dominion_Nightblade wrote: »

How exactly did you try this set? On some ezpz pve mobs? A target dummy? Sure it seems better in those situations. But any long duel against a good player will eventually result in you dying over sustain issues. Either way, let it go live before we ask to nerf it.

Took 6 3m dummies and fought until I ran out of resources. Well this set will be mostly used in organised groups, iam not planning on dueling people with this haha... but this way I can keep up 7k Weapon damage much more reliably... would push me over 15k Penetration also...

The dummies dont apply pressure and put you in defense mode. You cant test that with a dummy and that puts your sustain to the test. An organized group is gonna be OP regardless of what sets they use, so no nerfs needed there. I bet you'll still feel sustain issues in the group with this set too. 7k weapon damage might be hard to get, but 15k pen is easy to get. So no worries there.

Tommy_The_Gun

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

Why do I have a feeling that people who claim this set will overperform, won't use it anyway, but they just want to make sure that no one else will use it too ?

Weisstag

Yes it will outshine sets with similar bonuses in its current state

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Why do I have a feeling that people who claim this set will overperform, won't use it anyway, but they just want to make sure that no one else will use it too ?

oh if it stays its on my must have list and obviously it's staying since people like it in its current state... and I respect that, I just know I will put it on all of my raid toons since for my playstyle it's a no brainer to miss out on it

kitty79

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

not a proc set, only good stats, so it's ok

ChefZero

I think it's ok in PvE and No-CP PvP but it will overperform in CP-PvP.

UrbanMonk

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

The Set is Balanced. Gives you no resources but only offensive stats combined with extra cost. Would be interesting for the builds which rely for burst but not sustain.

Fiktius

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

ChefZero wrote: »

I think it's ok in PvE and No-CP PvP but it will overperform in CP-PvP.

It's not that black and white in CP - PvP environment either.

Every single time you have to keep in mind circumstances too.
Yes, I can get some nice boost from CP which helps me sustain, but that is only one aspect out of many:

What is the race you use?
Do you get help from your racial passives for sustain or does your passives give you something else instead?
(For example: Redguard, Bosmer and Breton passives vs Dark Elf, Orc and Nord passives)

What is your class?
Comparing sustain of Necromancer and Warden is fascinating, yet quite eye opening on practical level.
Bull netch vs Necro beam from corpses. Want to guess which one is more practical class to sustain?
This is just one example, but you can compare other classes and class skills/passives as well.

What is the PvP play style you have?
If you are running with a group, how big group? Full raid? Small scale? One man army?
It makes a giant difference do you have to take care of yourself only or do you have allies assisting you.

There are so many different things you'll have to keep in mind before judging does this set "overperform" on practical level or not.
This set sounds very interesting and it would be only a shame if developers nerf this set to the ground before it even see a daylight on live servers.

Kadoin

Proc sets overperform more, if you mean in pvp.

Weisstag

Yes it will outshine sets with similar bonuses in its current state

Just to be clear iam not asking for a direct nerf, iam asking for a tweak that would still make me consider other mentioned sets

like 7% cost or damage reduction to 448 sd/wd

Ragnaroek93

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

It's a good frontbar set, otherwise it's not that good (unless you can play with 0 sustain in your template, aka if you're a ganker). 5% cost reduction overall is very noticable in PvP, don't know why people underestimate the drawback so much. Probably just don't want us to have a good craft set and have to grind PvE instead...

Fiktius

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

Weisstag wrote: »

Just to be clear iam not asking for a direct nerf, iam asking for a tweak that would still make me consider other mentioned sets

like 7% cost or damage reduction to 448 sd/wd

I can understand your point, but however unfortunately I do not share the same view with you.

Due this is not the first poll about "whether this set overperform or not" and I've already wrote feedback about it earlier, I'll just quote what I said before, which explains reason why I disagree with you:

Fiktius wrote: »

Questions for those who thinks the set should get a higher cost increase:
Have you actually tested it out in PTS and how did it feel like while using in combat? How did you deal with your sustain?
What kind of content you did? PvE or PvP?

I crafted in PTS medium NMA set and tested it with my Necromancer by dueling against different players (until wild guard appeared and killed me and my dueling partner).
I tried similar build which I have on live server, which is a combination of damage set + defense set. I don't need sustain set on live either, so I would rather not change my damage set if I would have to run sustain set as exchange, so that's what I wanted to find out and figure can I handle the cost.

I can say that I didn't notice much difference at early state of the combat, but when I had equally skilled opponent, fights became longer and there that 5 % cost increase started to be noticeable and I had to keep closer eye on my resources.
And there comes the situation when I thought: Why I would use NMA when another sets could offer me high damage under different conditions, without hurting my sustain?

I very likely will give NMA another round in live, if the set comes out unchanged. However if the cost will increase above 5 %,
I rather keep my gold and never craft it.

Ragnaroek93

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

Weisstag wrote: »

Just to be clear iam not asking for a direct nerf, iam asking for a tweak that would still make me consider other mentioned sets

like 7% cost or damage reduction to 448 sd/wd

Seducer is 10% cost reduction as a 5p bonus and Julianos/Hundings is 300 dmg. Meanwhile the 5% cost increase applies on ults and both stam and magicka abilities, therefore the dmg bonus needs to be 50% higher than on Julianos/Hundings?

SodanTok

All I can say is that if 5% cost increase is so miniscule people will gladly accept it to get 181 more weapon damage than Hundings (set that is no way considered great, just good base) the game has issues with too much sustain.

Weisstag

Yes it will outshine sets with similar bonuses in its current state

Fiktius wrote: »

I can understand your point, but however unfortunately I do not share the same view with you.

I read what you said and yes definitely not Bis for every situation, like any other set. But since I look at this from my point of view I already can see what this will do to my aoe burst in raids, right now I use Briar/balorg/spriggan so I don't get the wd at all times obviously, but with this instead of Briar, I will sit on 6k weapon damage and 15k+pen for every single push we make, then balorghs procs of dbos, boom 6.6-7.2k wd, boom 23k tool tip on subassault hits you while you stand rooted in my friends graveyard, proxies go off, spin to Winn... you know the drill... iam actually really excited to wipe Meridia while wearing this bs xD

Fiktius

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

Weisstag wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

I can understand your point, but however unfortunately I do not share the same view with you.

I read what you said and yes definitely not Bis for every situation, like any other set. But since I look at this from my point of view I already can see what this will do to my aoe burst in raids, right now I use Briar/balorg/spriggan so I don't get the wd at all times obviously, but with this instead of Briar, I will sit on 6k weapon damage and 15k+pen for every single push we make, then balorghs procs of dbos, boom 6.6-7.2k wd, boom 23k tool tip on subassault hits you while you stand rooted in my friends graveyard, proxies go off, spin to Winn... you know the drill... iam actually really excited to wipe Meridia while wearing this bs xD

Well, that's completely another environment I can't comment about due I don't do PvE in general, I focus on PvP only.
However this is just another great example why it's not a good idea to suggest nerfs/tweaks for a set based on one type of end game only.
Developers have to keep both sides in mind, PvE and PvP and that's something which will never end as long as PvE and PvP are not being balanced separately.

Weisstag

Yes it will outshine sets with similar bonuses in its current state

Fiktius wrote: »

Well, that's completely another environment I can't comment about due I don't do PvE in general, I focus on PvP only.
However this is just another great example why it's not a good idea to suggest nerfs/tweaks for a set based on one type of end game only.
Developers have to keep both sides in mind, PvE and PvP and that's something which will never end as long as PvE and PvP are not being balanced separately.

Iam talking about pvp

Fiktius

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

Weisstag wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

Well, that's completely another environment I can't comment about due I don't do PvE in general, I focus on PvP only.
However this is just another great example why it's not a good idea to suggest nerfs/tweaks for a set based on one type of end game only.
Developers have to keep both sides in mind, PvE and PvP and that's something which will never end as long as PvE and PvP are not being balanced separately.

Iam talking about pvp

Ah, sorry, I clearly need more coffee. :'D

Weisstag

Yes it will outshine sets with similar bonuses in its current state

After all this is a poll so everyone can express their thoughts, if I would want to feed you guys with my opinion only I would make this a discussion

Harrdarrzarr

Isn't this the set that only has its crafting location unlocked when you did all Elsweyr and Dragonhold main questlines? If so, then it should stay the way it is just to annoy those that hate questing ghehehehe mwahahah etc.

Ellyhan

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

It's not overperforming, look Relequen who make 10k in vigor AND magic... Come on.

Rex-Umbra

No it won't overperform and 5% is a enough of cost increase

5% cost increase is huge tons of sets give plus 400 with no trade off. This set might actually give Hybrids hope.

ChunkyCat

Yes it will outshine sets with similar bonuses in its current state

ThePedge wrote: »

Shhh