MagDK the downside? For PVP

Gprime31

All you magdk players, what are the disadvantages of playing a magdk in your opinion, been playing one for a couple weeks now and I don’t see any. We get 2 unblockable undodgeable CC, (fossilize and leap) the best class heal in the game, the ability to charge up flames of oblivion for 15k whips (out of combat at that) can stack in to speed so mobility is no problem, can use shadowrend for less damage taken, be nord for extra tankieness, use meditate for unlimited sustain( bashing it works maybe.. sometimes..bugged?) and all the dots. I like it. It’s my new main. Thoughts?

Yuffie91

Most important is that you like it! Who cares what others think

ChunkyCat

The downside is that it’s not my StamSorc.

GhostofDatthaw

While I do love my magdk, I like my magplar more for if I want the up front bruiser type. But I main magnb

JumpmanLane

Gprime31 wrote: »

All you magdk players, what are the disadvantages of playing a magdk in your opinion, been playing one for a couple weeks now and I don’t see any. We get 2 unblockable undodgeable CC, (fossilize and leap) the best class heal in the game, the ability to charge up flames of oblivion for 15k whips (out of combat at that) can stack in to speed so mobility is no problem, can use shadowrend for less damage taken, be nord for extra tankieness, use meditate for unlimited sustain( bashing it works maybe.. sometimes..bugged?) and all the dots. I like it. It’s my new main. Thoughts?

You can block leap lol. THIS PATCH MagDk is strong af. Coag is a great heal. Blackrose Prison Resto + healing ward+ rapid Regen is better but I’m using coag lol. I know it’ll hit ME in a pinch.

Go Dunmer for damage. I had a 122 kill streak in PvP and killed some fool that was wielding Volundrung yesterday lol.

Look Structured Entropy IS overtuned. Ele Drain, light attack to proc berserker glyph, Structured Entropy, Resto heavy attack executes potatoes. Run 2 damage sets and whips HURT.

Just so much fun this patch. Lol.
Disadvantages? NEXT PATCH. LOL.

SipofMaim

We don't talk about it in front of waves hand around them.

robpr

High cost of Fossilize and no real movement speed outside Race Against Time or Mist and general being in melee range exposing yourself to Dizzy spammers.

JumpmanLane

robpr wrote: »

High cost of Fossilize and no real movement speed outside Race Against Time or Mist and general being in melee range exposing yourself to Dizzy spammers.

Dizzy? Run through them. Get in REAL close. Or kite. Or dodgeroll.

NBrookus

mDK has a rough time balancing between offense and defense. DK plays best if you stay aggressive and on the offense all the time, but lacking options for Major Evasion, Major Expedition (there is one, but it's an offensive buff) choosing WHERE you fight is more important than on other classes, particularly stam, that can run circles around you. You can play super bursty or super tanky, but the sweet spot in between is hard to find outside of pugging and zerging. And sustain on this class is terrible.

mDK is really strong this patch but has had it's time spent in dumpster tier. It seems like it will be a bit weaker next patch, but still viable. It's by far my favorite class, and I've thought that since I started playing it in the dumpster tier era.

Unfortunately I do agree with Ghost that magplar *currently* is a better front line bruiser class, along with stam DK. Which seems out of whack to me.

P.S. Strongest class heal by far goes to mag sorc... but they have to double bar it and you can kill it.

P.P.S. Leap is dodgeable.

brandonv516

NBrookus wrote: »

mDK has a rough time balancing between offense and defense. DK plays best if you stay aggressive and on the offense all the time, but lacking options for Major Evasion, Major Expedition (there is one, but it's an offensive buff) choosing WHERE you fight is more important than on other classes, particularly stam, that can run circles around you. You can play super bursty or super tanky, but the sweet spot in between is hard to find outside of pugging and zerging. And sustain on this class is terrible.

mDK is really strong this patch but has had it's time spent in dumpster tier. It seems like it will be a bit weaker next patch, but still viable. It's by far my favorite class, and I've thought that since I started playing it in the dumpster tier era.

Unfortunately I do agree with Ghost that magplar *currently* is a better front line bruiser class, along with stam DK. Which seems out of whack to me.

P.S. Strongest class heal by far goes to mag sorc... but they have to double bar it and you can kill it.

P.P.S. Leap is dodgeable.

Don't want to derail the thread (and I won't discuss it here any further) but the strongest burst heal goes go NB. And it goes through walls and doesn't cost magicka. Most people don't even know what it's called!

Sorcerer is actually getting a buff next patch to their burst heal because it hasn't been on par with the others.

Ingel_Riday

Eh, it's not as much of a golden god class as you're making it out to be, original poster.

You don't get magicka regen bonuses like magicka nightlblades or spell cost reductions like magicka sorcerers, so you rely on heavy attacks to make up for shoddier sustain. Works fine in PVE, but in PVP you'll have a miserable go of it. Molten armaments gives a 50% bonus to heavy attacks for this very reason. Enforce the heavy attack recharge angle. If meditate is indeed broken so that you can use it for unlimited sustain, that benefits everyone too much and is going to get patched out of the game. I wouldn't count that as a positive of the class; sounds like an exploit you're going to lose shortly.

You don't get a class execute as a magicak dragonknight, so that's not part of your tool set and you have no real way to get it elsewhere. You also don't have a lot of great mobility skills. Leap uses ultimate instead of mana. Now if you're a vampire with mist form or use the major expedition Psijic skill, you can make up for this... but then you're a vampire or lose a meaningful skill for the Psijic skill.

You get a good gap closer with fiery grip though, so that helps a bit there. You also get some decent stuns, and your class spammable can do more damage to stunned people, so that's a perk. I don't use fossilize because it doesn't do a lot of damage and I'm a dot-class by design, but I have used it to some effect in pvp. As for Fires of Oblivion, you could take that to proc the molten whip buff upon use and get passive spell critical... or you could take inner light for a 5% max magicka boost, the passive spell critical boost, and then use burning embers and fiery whip to buff up molten whip. Whatever floats your boat. I prefer the latter because a permanent 5% magicka boost is far more useful than a mediocre orb of fire splashing against one target every 5 seconds for 15 seconds.

The class self-heal is pretty great (the BEST class self-heal in the game? I don't know. Templar heals are pretty nice and I never had a problem with dark conversion as a sorcerer. Best? Can't say), volatile armor is effectively lightning form from the sorcerer tree and can help keep you alive when need be. Nice class skill. Inhale and Burning Embers both provide fairly nice heals in the middle of fights, so you can handle damage pretty well... which is good, because you're not going to be avoiding it too well with your low stamina and your lack of escapes / maneuverability skills.

The Achilles heel of the sub-class is actually Update 24, unless they've changed it since the last patch notes. You're an attrition damage-dealer, so you rely on dots. Due to a knee jerk reaction to the dot meta that popped up in Update 23, ALL DOTS ARE GETTING NERFED ABOUT 60% DAMAGE-WISE and are having magicka costs go up 35% to 120% (in the case of Blockade). Most of your damage abilities are dots, because you're a dot-based damage dealer by intentional design. Thus, the knee jerk hits you two ways. A: you're a sub-class with sustain issues and these increased magicka costs are going to make things much worse for you. B: Outside of molten whip, you likely relied on burning embers, fiery breath, and blockade to stack up dot damage. On short fights, you're a joke. On longer fights, you pan out well. Three of those have had their damage reduced by 60%. You're a joke on all fights, now. *shrug*

I'm studying for my mid-terms right now, but I'll be rolling a stamina nightblade in about a week and giving up on my main until Update 25 or 26, depending on which one fixes the upcoming trainwreck.

Enjoy being useful while it lasts, hombre. It won't last long.

Calboy

Gprime31 wrote: »

All you magdk players, what are the disadvantages of playing a magdk in your opinion, been playing one for a couple weeks now and I don’t see any. We get 2 unblockable undodgeable CC, (fossilize and leap) the best class heal in the game, the ability to charge up flames of oblivion for 15k whips (out of combat at that) can stack in to speed so mobility is no problem, can use shadowrend for less damage taken, be nord for extra tankieness, use meditate for unlimited sustain( bashing it works maybe.. sometimes..bugged?) and all the dots. I like it. It’s my new main. Thoughts?

-Leap is blockable
-Best heal is debatable but it is nice knowing its going to heal ME
-Any class can stack speed, but it comes at a price
-Anyone can use shadow rend but a better way for minor main is talons
-Any class can use nord, but you are also sacrificing damage or sustain for defence
-Any class can use meditate
-Other classes also have lots of dots

The drawbacks are
-No execute
-Not enough bar space to utilise everything. On paper we have access to great things but you generally are sacrificing something else to slot it
-Mobility, like I said above there are options but something else is being sacrificed and the magdk bars quickly become pretty generic.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Calboy wrote: »

The drawbacks are

-Not enough bar space to utilise everything. On paper we have access to great things but you generally are sacrificing something else to slot it

That’s every classes drawback hahaha. I’m always wishing I had just TWO more skill slots lol.

Ingel_Riday

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

The drawbacks are

-Not enough bar space to utilise everything. On paper we have access to great things but you generally are sacrificing something else to slot it

That’s every classes drawback hahaha. I’m always wishing I had just TWO more skill slots lol.

Ditto. If we weren't bound to controller compatibility, our lives would be so much more interesting. I'd use so many more flavor abilities to goof around. Oh well. :-P

Perashim

- Range
- Sustain
- Update 24....

Those are things I would say are the downsides for magDK, but I'm still new to it.

Calboy

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

The drawbacks are

-Not enough bar space to utilise everything. On paper we have access to great things but you generally are sacrificing something else to slot it

That’s every classes drawback hahaha. I’m always wishing I had just TWO more skill slots lol.

Oh for sure, every class has that problem. Some more than others

MizoreReyes

Non-CP Perspective:
1. No execute
2. Lack of build creativity
3. Heavily relies on DoTs (1 Purge is all they need to shut it down)
4. Sustain is trash if you don't use a typical set like bright-throat, or magicka recovery stat boosts like from light gear passives or glyphs
5. Building your damage based on flame damage doesn't benefit spell damage for heals
6. Close combat
7. No real gap closer (chains are unreliable when fighting against a player with different elevation from where you are and it allows the player to be immune to control once pulled. Wings was nerfed so you can't force the enemy to go toe-to-toe against you, and if you charge at them, you'll take far too much damage and run out of sustain.
8. Sustain (mostly from costly skills)
9. Go heavy=tanky but no damage so you might have to rely on heavy attacking for damage and/or recovery (heavy is much better for stamina DKs but would recommend heavy for MagDks in CP), & go light=squishy with no burst damage other than leap and stacked 3x molten whip. (
10. Mobility
11. A lot of single target damage skills
12. No large scale group heals within the class lines (We have cinderstorm I guess, but thats a 5m radius + costs 5.6k magicka + not a burst heal)
13. Since you're a magicka class you might have some stamina issues which is important to have in PvP

leepalmer95

Gprime31 wrote: »

All you magdk players, what are the disadvantages of playing a magdk in your opinion, been playing one for a couple weeks now and I don’t see any. We get 2 unblockable undodgeable CC, (fossilize and leap) the best class heal in the game, the ability to charge up flames of oblivion for 15k whips (out of combat at that) can stack in to speed so mobility is no problem, can use shadowrend for less damage taken, be nord for extra tankieness, use meditate for unlimited sustain( bashing it works maybe.. sometimes..bugged?) and all the dots. I like it. It’s my new main. Thoughts?

Leap isn't unblockabl, breath of life > dragonblood, high dmg whip is nice but requires casting other skill first though.

Everything else you listed has nothing to do with mag dk.

Vildebill

I think MagDK is great this patch. The biggest problems i have is the mobility, all these dancing queens in PvP likes to run away when the fight gets real. No room for chains on my bar

Darsaga

MagDk is my third most PvPd toon. The only issues I have ever had is mobility. I feel like once I’m in the fight I either have to kill everyone or die. Not really a class that can reposition a long distance like everything else. I personally don’t find room for mobility skills on my bars. I’m fine with that though because it is a unique play style and I’m not on board with every class doing the same thing as one another.

Sounds like you have only played MagDk during this over tuned DoT meta? Your overly enthusiastic point of view might change if you play one during a rough patch or two. MagDk has always been the class that if buffed the wrong way would be soooo broken. It always skates the line of OP or Bad compared to everything else. In 1v1s it has always been very good though IMO. You have a lot of control over your opponent with Talons and Fossilize.

BNOC

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Enjoy being useful while it lasts, hombre. It won't last long.

Unless he goes and duels or does BG's all day long, where MagDK has been at the top for about 2 year.

Kadoin

It's heavily build dependent, just like mag NB.

Commancho

Weak ranged attacks, bad sustain, lack of mobility. After update this class will be dead. I mean what you gonna do against ranged attacks? Spam rocks? Lol even if you get in the close range what you gonna do? Slap them few times with a whip before they get away again because all your other abilities will be pathetic?

Kadoin

Commancho wrote: »

Weak ranged attacks, bad sustain, lack of mobility. After update this class will be dead. I mean what you gonna do against ranged attacks? Spam rocks? Lol even if you get in the close range what you gonna do? Slap them few times with a whip before they get away again because all your other abilities will be pathetic?

I roll on my DK

Commancho

Kadoin wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

Weak ranged attacks, bad sustain, lack of mobility. After update this class will be dead. I mean what you gonna do against ranged attacks? Spam rocks? Lol even if you get in the close range what you gonna do? Slap them few times with a whip before they get away again because all your other abilities will be pathetic?

I roll on my DK

I ROCK on my DK. Ftfy xD

Juhasow

Commancho wrote: »

Weak ranged attacks, bad sustain, lack of mobility. After update this class will be dead. I mean what you gonna do against ranged attacks? Spam rocks? Lol even if you get in the close range what you gonna do? Slap them few times with a whip before they get away again because all your other abilities will be pathetic?

Dk have a class gap closer You know ?

Commancho

Juhasow wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

Weak ranged attacks, bad sustain, lack of mobility. After update this class will be dead. I mean what you gonna do against ranged attacks? Spam rocks? Lol even if you get in the close range what you gonna do? Slap them few times with a whip before they get away again because all your other abilities will be pathetic?

Dk have a class gap closer You know ?

No, elaborate pls.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

delete petrify and all is good.

Kadoin

Commancho wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

Weak ranged attacks, bad sustain, lack of mobility. After update this class will be dead. I mean what you gonna do against ranged attacks? Spam rocks? Lol even if you get in the close range what you gonna do? Slap them few times with a whip before they get away again because all your other abilities will be pathetic?

I roll on my DK

I ROCK on my DK. Ftfy xD

Then you will love next patch

sfpiesb14_ESO

mDK has always been my favorite class. Even when in like 2016 your only pvp option was to run around with a resto staff spamming mutagen for ap.

However there are several downsides as others have said.

No range
In order to do any real damage you have to wear light armor = squishy
Mobility sucks. Sure you can use mist or RAT but I don't really like either of those options. Mist makes you take more damage from fire and RAT is an offensive option whereas I would like a defensive option for mobility. Maybe thats just personal preference.

I'm currently having the most success of my characters on mDK (more than my magsorc, magblade, and stamblade). Update 24 going to hurt a bit but I think we'll be in an OK spot still. Recent changes in 5.2.2 and their promise to up the damage of dots a bit more than current pts are nice.

Templars are the obvious top class in pvp right now. I feel like 50% of the pvp pop right now is templars and 80% of my death recaps are templars.

NBrookus

Commancho wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

Weak ranged attacks, bad sustain, lack of mobility. After update this class will be dead. I mean what you gonna do against ranged attacks? Spam rocks? Lol even if you get in the close range what you gonna do? Slap them few times with a whip before they get away again because all your other abilities will be pathetic?

Dk have a class gap closer You know ?

No, elaborate pls.

The non-tank morph of Chains, Empowering Chains. Gap closes to player, does some flame damage and can't be dodged, grants 4 seconds of Major Expedition, doesn't CC player so you can follow up on getting close to them with a stun, and grants 2 uses of Empower.

It's legit a very good skill and I rarely see it used. It's very difficult to find room for it with all the other things you need is the downside.