They’re not crown crates

Libonotus

They’re surprise mechanics
https://youtu.be/nVYEqaFZJWo

Libonotus

You’re welcome

Libonotus

Quality EA content

Lisutaris

If EA is satan, ZOS is only a scamp.
You can buy stuff with gems ... still making use of gambling, rip off, but at least, at some point you get what you want .

Miss the days, when only dlc/microtransaction was the addon in the store..... and everything else included ingame.
And before some ppl shout out ... even in mmorpgs this was some sort of standard.... let's say DaoC... some of you should be familiar with it ... addon yes, other dlc/microtransactions ... big NOPE.

Katahdin

Hmm lets see

Typical "surpise mechanics" in Crown Crates (per crate)

Crown Potions (I make the ones I actually use by the 100)

Crown meal (I also make food by the 100)

Crown soul gem (I think I have around 4000 regular soul gems on my account atm)

Riding lesson (especially common when all your characters have maxed out horses)

XP scrolls (for the player with 18 max level characters)

Crown repair kit (the only useful item to a max level player)



Oh What a "surprise"......more crap I cant use.....and I get about 10 gems for

TelvanniWizard

Scam crates are a scam.

Ingel_Riday

They tend to be balanced enough that I don't mind them so much. You buy one patch of 15 crates and you can usually get the emotes you want and have enough gems left over for a costume. Done.

I do feel though for the addicts who spend hundreds trying to get a specific rare mount. I also miss the old days before investor demands and psychological warfare against the consumer kicked in. I took a marketing class recently and this game uses ALL the tactics. Not some. ALL of them. To give a brief list:

1. Daily log-in bonuses to "boost engagement." Every day, you can log-in to claim a small prize and, hey, while you're here... did you see our new crown store offerings? For only 1,000 crowns, you can look like a renegade dragon priest. Oh, and...

2. Use of a micro-transaction currency to obfuscate dollar cost. I could have said $10, but then you might balk. "10 Dollars! I could buy a fairly decent pizza for that, or buy an entire retro-game for my Xbox, or get a six pack of beer! All that, for a costume that looks like a reskin of an older costume with a dragon mask glued on?" Hey now, it doesn't cost $10. It cost... 1,000 crowns. Speaking of which...

3. Sell such said micro-transaction currency in odd increments that don't match item prices. You can't buy 1,000 crowns, but you can buy 750 or 1,500. If you want this costume, you'll spend $14.99 for the 1,500 and have 500 crowns leftover that will tempt you to buy the next thing we advertise on the crown store. I mean, that Sheogorath-costumed guar is only 750 crowns and you already have 500. Might as well get some more crowns and get it. Notice again that I didn't say the critter cost $7.50. $7.50 for a single pet appearance in a full priced game with a subscription fee if you want full functionality. Oh, and you better decide soon, because...

4. Fear of Missing Out. I could leave everything on my storefront, organized by logical categories, for you to buy whenever you want... but where is the sense of urgency? You might just wait until you receive your allotment of crowns from your subscription and then use those to buy only the things you really care about. But what if things "expire" because I only have so much room for inventory in my VIRTUAL STOREFRONT MADE UP OF ZEROES AND ONES. "Gotta make room for new stock!" Oh, you might say that you'll buy the renegade dragon priest costume later... but it's only up for ten days and then it might be gone for years! That sheogorath-guar? 5 day window. The Dark Stag mount? I offer that once a year, on a random day near Halloween, for 24 hours. Costs $42 after tax... I mean *coughs* 5,000 crowns. That leaves you with 500 crowns left. See point 3. Dare you miss out on this sweet transient deal for virtual swag? At least I'm letting you buy it directly. I could always.

5. Use gambling mechanics to increase player expenditures. Instead of letting you just buy The Dark Stag, I could stick it in a loot crate. In exchange for 5,000 crowns, you can have 15 crates. The Dark Stag has a .1% chance of dropping in each crate. Oh, the average person will see this and give up on getting the mount... but not the addict. The addict will buy crate after crate to amass a collection of items they don't want that they can "dismantle" into yet another micro-transaction currency called, in this case, "gems." The Dark Stag will cost 400 gems. Duplicate trash will net you 1 gem each, duplicate regular items will net you 5, rarer items 10, and very rare items 40. If you're very unlucky, it could take you more than 80 crates to get that mount. Since you have to buy them in clusters of 15, that's six batches at $42 *coughs* 5,000 crowns each. But hey, at least you're not in it alone. I also sell new emotes through these. So instead of spending $20 every three months for a pack of three emotes, your fellow players have to spend $42 to get crates, sigh in vexation as an in-game Khajiit thief named Pacrouti openly mocks them each and every time they open one (because nothing can ever be TOO ON THE NOSE), and hope that the emotes randomly drop for them. Don't worry, though. I'll give them just enough gem trash that they can buy all of them, usually. Sometimes I'll need to meet quarterly revenue projections and I'll put one emote at 100 gems with a 1% drop rate to really rub in the salt.

So, yeah. This game is kind of textbook AAA with the Crown Store. Ironically, I detested the efforts to get the government involved with game regulation in the early digits and now I'm all for it to curtail the kind of psychological tomfoolery detailed above. This industry is not going to regulate itself, and it's just going to get worse from here. Look at Call of Duty and NBA 2K20. The Crown Store is tame compared to them, which doesn't bode well when investors realize that and start ramping things up still further. Pacrouti next to a roulette wheel comes to mind. "This one always bets on black."

Nemesis7884

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrong - no cigar

no surprise as you already know what you can get as it is displayed in the store...

Ingel_Riday

On an aside, what surprises me is the lack of imagination on the part of casinos. The videogame industry is getting away with actual gambling because they "always give you something for your money." Overwatch will always at least give you a virtual sticker. This game will always give you some potions and a soul gem. That's apparently all you need to circumvent gambling laws. Stickers and Cracker-Jack toys.

Just rig slot machines in Las Vegas with candy dispensers filled to the brim with off-brand M&Ms. Every time you pull the slot, a few M&Ms fall out for you to nibble on. It's not gambling, then! No, they're just buying candy with a chance for "a little extra." Guaranteed to get something of value for your money.

But no, the casinos aren't innovative enough to give it a go, yet. Meanwhile Rockstar Games has a casino in its most recent GTA Online expansion that literally lets players buy chips with real money. But it's not gambling because the chips can't be cashed out (HAHAHAHAHA!) and eventually the players can use the chips to buy in-game items... if they don't lose them all playing poker against Pacrouti. Guffaw. Oh, AAA industry. Las Vegas could learn so much.

sionIV

There should be an emote for old news.

M_Volsung

Blah... blah... blah...

f047ys3v3n

Lol, Surprise mechanics. Nothing like watching highly paid, highly trained, obfuscation artists, abuse our magnificent *** tongue. For all her degrees and training, she is not so impressive. No more convincing than my compulsively lying 4 year old.

You guys across the pond are so funny. Here in Merica we fund our schools with gambling (really we just replaced general expenditure funds with gambling when it was added as a funding source, not more total education funds were added), are expanding gambling offerings in most states and even adding a good bit of wagering on our unpaid "amateur" athletes who will in no way be tempted to shaving a few points here and there for a bit of dough. Hell, through our banking policies, we have basically abolished moderate safe returns on investment through bank deposit interest in favor of full on gambling in our (much more rigged than a casino) stock market. We even give those winnings a super small tax rate and a tax break just for walking in the door. And you guys are so worried about things like addicting kids early and peoples addictions having negative live consequences. It's really more like training kids for money management in the future.

Really, a more pressing issue is how under utilized surprise mechanics are in the rest of society. In Merica we have a problem with people avoiding the health care system because they are afraid of surprise bills. What if we added a chance at free care to the mix. Maybe you have a 20% chance of an out of network doctor walking in to your surgery while your out and charging you a luxury car for his services (not exaggerating here) but you also now have a .01% chance of a totally free procedure. Of course you don't know the odds and you only show the joyous freebee winners on advertisement. Mable got a new hip and she got to keep her house too! Maybe people would come in and get more care. You could also do this with salaries. Most of our jobs are no longer near middle class and will never pay enough to save (or gamble) for retirement, pay for healthcare, or for a kids university. What if you got a loot box with your pay check each week with a chance of getting the CEO's pay for the week instead of your own. I wonder if people could be convinced to take even less pay for the chance of a big check.

See the problem is not too much gambling, it is too little, in games and in society.

Zacuel

I mean you could.... Not buy them?

MaleAmazon

Maybe you have a 20% chance of an out of network doctor walking in to your surgery while your out and charging you a luxury car for his services (not exaggerating here) but you also now have a .01% chance of a totally free procedure. Of course you don't know the odds and you only show the joyous freebee winners on advertisement.

New set: The Patient´s Hope

2 Items: Adds 129 Health Recovery
3 Items: Your light and heavy pleas place a stack of compassion on your doctor. After placing 5 stacks, they detonate for
a 1000 dollar reduction to your bill, but place minor defile on you, reducing your healing taken and health recovery by 15%. You can only gain 1 stack per month.
4 Items: Adds 1206 Maximum Health
5 Items: Decreases the time it takes to resurrect an ally by 25%, but you can only resurrect yourself.

Delparis

somebody got a nice surprise when he checked his bank account

Girl_Number8

She sounds like a skooma dealer

TelvanniWizard

Scam crates are a scam.

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

They tend to be balanced enough that I don't mind them so much. You buy one patch of 15 crates and you can usually get the emotes you want and have enough gems left over for a costume. Done.

I do feel though for the addicts who spend hundreds trying to get a specific rare mount. I also miss the old days before investor demands and psychological warfare against the consumer kicked in. I took a marketing class recently and this game uses ALL the tactics. Not some. ALL of them. To give a brief list:

1. Daily log-in bonuses to "boost engagement." Every day, you can log-in to claim a small prize and, hey, while you're here... did you see our new crown store offerings? For only 1,000 crowns, you can look like a renegade dragon priest. Oh, and...

2. Use of a micro-transaction currency to obfuscate dollar cost. I could have said $10, but then you might balk. "10 Dollars! I could buy a fairly decent pizza for that, or buy an entire retro-game for my Xbox, or get a six pack of beer! All that, for a costume that looks like a reskin of an older costume with a dragon mask glued on?" Hey now, it doesn't cost $10. It cost... 1,000 crowns. Speaking of which...

3. Sell such said micro-transaction currency in odd increments that don't match item prices. You can't buy 1,000 crowns, but you can buy 750 or 1,500. If you want this costume, you'll spend $14.99 for the 1,500 and have 500 crowns leftover that will tempt you to buy the next thing we advertise on the crown store. I mean, that Sheogorath-costumed guar is only 750 crowns and you already have 500. Might as well get some more crowns and get it. Notice again that I didn't say the critter cost $7.50. $7.50 for a single pet appearance in a full priced game with a subscription fee if you want full functionality. Oh, and you better decide soon, because...

4. Fear of Missing Out. I could leave everything on my storefront, organized by logical categories, for you to buy whenever you want... but where is the sense of urgency? You might just wait until you receive your allotment of crowns from your subscription and then use those to buy only the things you really care about. But what if things "expire" because I only have so much room for inventory in my VIRTUAL STOREFRONT MADE UP OF ZEROES AND ONES. "Gotta make room for new stock!" Oh, you might say that you'll buy the renegade dragon priest costume later... but it's only up for ten days and then it might be gone for years! That sheogorath-guar? 5 day window. The Dark Stag mount? I offer that once a year, on a random day near Halloween, for 24 hours. Costs $42 after tax... I mean *coughs* 5,000 crowns. That leaves you with 500 crowns left. See point 3. Dare you miss out on this sweet transient deal for virtual swag? At least I'm letting you buy it directly. I could always.

5. Use gambling mechanics to increase player expenditures. Instead of letting you just buy The Dark Stag, I could stick it in a loot crate. In exchange for 5,000 crowns, you can have 15 crates. The Dark Stag has a .1% chance of dropping in each crate. Oh, the average person will see this and give up on getting the mount... but not the addict. The addict will buy crate after crate to amass a collection of items they don't want that they can "dismantle" into yet another micro-transaction currency called, in this case, "gems." The Dark Stag will cost 400 gems. Duplicate trash will net you 1 gem each, duplicate regular items will net you 5, rarer items 10, and very rare items 40. If you're very unlucky, it could take you more than 80 crates to get that mount. Since you have to buy them in clusters of 15, that's six batches at $42 *coughs* 5,000 crowns each. But hey, at least you're not in it alone. I also sell new emotes through these. So instead of spending $20 every three months for a pack of three emotes, your fellow players have to spend $42 to get crates, sigh in vexation as an in-game Khajiit thief named Pacrouti openly mocks them each and every time they open one (because nothing can ever be TOO ON THE NOSE), and hope that the emotes randomly drop for them. Don't worry, though. I'll give them just enough gem trash that they can buy all of them, usually. Sometimes I'll need to meet quarterly revenue projections and I'll put one emote at 100 gems with a 1% drop rate to really rub in the salt.

So, yeah. This game is kind of textbook AAA with the Crown Store. Ironically, I detested the efforts to get the government involved with game regulation in the early digits and now I'm all for it to curtail the kind of psychological tomfoolery detailed above. This industry is not going to regulate itself, and it's just going to get worse from here. Look at Call of Duty and NBA 2K20. The Crown Store is tame compared to them, which doesn't bode well when investors realize that and start ramping things up still further. Pacrouti next to a roulette wheel comes to mind. "This one always bets on black."

This post is gold.

MaleAmazon

So, yeah. This game is kind of textbook AAA with the Crown Store. Ironically, I detested the efforts to get the government involved with game regulation in the early digits and now I'm all for it to curtail the kind of psychological tomfoolery detailed above. This industry is not going to regulate itself, and it's just going to get worse from here. Look at Call of Duty and NBA 2K20. The Crown Store is tame compared to them, which doesn't bode well when investors realize that and start ramping things up still further. Pacrouti next to a roulette wheel comes to mind. "This one always bets on black."

The funny part is it isn´t new. I´m 38, but back basically 30 years ago we´d have card collection magazines with football players in the world cup, stuff like that. You would buy cards in sets, trade them with other kids and try to get the full collection. I didn´t have any money, didn´t get any allowance and so could never buy said magazines or cards. But a few of my friends did. Every damn school break people would trade.

Of course, the cards were not sold up front but in packs and you didn´t know what you got (and I am sure the more desirable football star players were less prevalent). Same bloody thing.

Nihil novi sub sole.

And (and I´m sure I´m gonna cross some ToS line here but so be it), it makes you wonder what the creator-consumer relationship is going to be. I mean, if I buy art or food from somewhere I don´t get 'random art / food'. The store where I´ve bought my guitars - yeah they want to sell me a guitar, but they seem to be decent enough to not sell crap to me. They give serious advice, let you test play anything, and are helpful people you can chat with. It even doesn´t bother me that they test play my guitars after I´ve bought them without asking me first .

I wouldn´t buy any crowns for real money, personally. And if someone pirated software made by developers using these tactics... nah, I wouldn´t feel bad for the devs, to be honest.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Delparis

Zenimax should follow SquareEnix cashshop by selling costums and mounts with real money price not some BS crowns for lootboxes.
But Zenimax is an EA/Activision clone atm with all the bad ideas/technics they made/have.
Really too bad as this won't last forever and laws are changing in the good way.

I really wish Bethesda/Zenimax were like CD Projekt Red ...

mairwen85

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Lol, Surprise mechanics. Nothing like watching highly paid, highly trained, obfuscation artists, abuse our magnificent *** tongue. For all her degrees and training, she is not so impressive. No more convincing than my compulsively lying 4 year old.

You guys across the pond are so funny. Here in Merica we fund our schools with gambling (really we just replaced general expenditure funds with gambling when it was added as a funding source, not more total education funds were added), are expanding gambling offerings in most states and even adding a good bit of wagering on our unpaid "amateur" athletes who will in no way be tempted to shaving a few points here and there for a bit of dough. Hell, through our banking policies, we have basically abolished moderate safe returns on investment through bank deposit interest in favor of full on gambling in our (much more rigged than a casino) stock market. We even give those winnings a super small tax rate and a tax break just for walking in the door. And you guys are so worried about things like addicting kids early and peoples addictions having negative live consequences. It's really more like training kids for money management in the future.

Really, a more pressing issue is how under utilized surprise mechanics are in the rest of society. In Merica we have a problem with people avoiding the health care system because they are afraid of surprise bills. What if we added a chance at free care to the mix. Maybe you have a 20% chance of an out of network doctor walking in to your surgery while your out and charging you a luxury car for his services (not exaggerating here) but you also now have a .01% chance of a totally free procedure. Of course you don't know the odds and you only show the joyous freebee winners on advertisement. Mable got a new hip and she got to keep her house too! Maybe people would come in and get more care. You could also do this with salaries. Most of our jobs are no longer near middle class and will never pay enough to save (or gamble) for retirement, pay for healthcare, or for a kids university. What if you got a loot box with your pay check each week with a chance of getting the CEO's pay for the week instead of your own. I wonder if people could be convinced to take even less pay for the chance of a big check.

See the problem is not too much gambling, it is too little, in games and in society.

A dark yet plausible glimpse at the future

Lisutaris

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Lol, Surprise mechanics. Nothing like watching highly paid, highly trained, obfuscation artists, abuse our magnificent *** tongue. For all her degrees and training, she is not so impressive. No more convincing than my compulsively lying 4 year old.

You guys across the pond are so funny. Here in Merica we fund our schools with gambling (really we just replaced general expenditure funds with gambling when it was added as a funding source, not more total education funds were added), are expanding gambling offerings in most states and even adding a good bit of wagering on our unpaid "amateur" athletes who will in no way be tempted to shaving a few points here and there for a bit of dough. Hell, through our banking policies, we have basically abolished moderate safe returns on investment through bank deposit interest in favor of full on gambling in our (much more rigged than a casino) stock market. We even give those winnings a super small tax rate and a tax break just for walking in the door. And you guys are so worried about things like addicting kids early and peoples addictions having negative live consequences. It's really more like training kids for money management in the future.

Really, a more pressing issue is how under utilized surprise mechanics are in the rest of society. In Merica we have a problem with people avoiding the health care system because they are afraid of surprise bills. What if we added a chance at free care to the mix. Maybe you have a 20% chance of an out of network doctor walking in to your surgery while your out and charging you a luxury car for his services (not exaggerating here) but you also now have a .01% chance of a totally free procedure. Of course you don't know the odds and you only show the joyous freebee winners on advertisement. Mable got a new hip and she got to keep her house too! Maybe people would come in and get more care. You could also do this with salaries. Most of our jobs are no longer near middle class and will never pay enough to save (or gamble) for retirement, pay for healthcare, or for a kids university. What if you got a loot box with your pay check each week with a chance of getting the CEO's pay for the week instead of your own. I wonder if people could be convinced to take even less pay for the chance of a big check.

See the problem is not too much gambling, it is too little, in games and in society.

Let me Zoidberg you.


Because some ppl are wise/intelligent/resistant/.... >endless words for it< enough to deal with gambling should be in no way used as a basis to not regulate it.
The example of the health care and ceo paycheck are some sort of extreme for gambling ... you gamble with your life(health) or future ($ for your monthly needs). This should be in no way acceptable and supported.... not if som1 cares about other human beings.
Gambling is never a good thing. Sry, never.
The "kids training for money management" is also a useless statement... you can only train some1 if you supervise him/her... Therefore, it's maybe a good "lesson"/"experience" that gambling is bad, because you loose your pocket money for useless crap, but that's all.

I can't disagree more, sry.

MaleAmazon

I can't disagree more, sry.

Someone hit the irony resistance cap.

Zacuel

MaleAmazon wrote: »

I can't disagree more, sry.

Someone hit the irony resistance cap.

I don't know what's real anymore...

Hallothiel

@Ingel_Riday

What did you think? That Zos was doing this out of the goodness of their hearts for our benefit? This game is a product to make money. As are the majority of things in this world. Capitalism is the norm. Has been for quite a while now.

There is an odd thread of thought running through some gamers, in that these games should be some lovely free thing like ‘back in the day’. That is naive, wistful & doesn’t help.

And the response to marketing is to be aware of how it works. That is what should be taught to children - be suspicious of adverts and anyone trying to sell you things to make your life ‘better’ or some aspirational crap so you can buy this product to be more like them.

But if you know this, and don’t care about Fomo or whatever, and chose to buy what you like when you can afford it, then that is fine. Got the dark stag this time as had enough crowns & have not bought in past when didn’t.

And there are ways to get crowns cheaper, you know. Be proactive and work it out.

starkerealm

Zacuel wrote: »

MaleAmazon wrote: »

I can't disagree more, sry.

Someone hit the irony resistance cap.

I don't know what's real anymore...

Skwor

uuhm, just don't buy them then? Why does anyone care what another person buys? Especially when the purchase helps funds an activity for other people

starkerealm

Skwor wrote: »

uuhm, just don't buy them then? Why does anyone care what another person buys? Especially when the purchase helps funds an activity for other people

In the case of EA, it was because the lootboxes are a vital component of progression. Want better gear? Grind for a loot box, or buy a few right now, and get a leg up on the other guys.

So, in that case, it very much matters. With ESO? Eh, not really.

Elsonso

Skwor wrote: »

uuhm, just don't buy them then? Why does anyone care what another person buys? Especially when the purchase helps funds an activity for other people

Even if they are not purchased by a player, there is an impact. Those who do not buy have to accept that they are left out of things. This is not unusual for games, but in the past, these things have been in the game, presented for free in exchange for skill, not presented for money, in exchange for cash.

Also, we do not know what the purchase of Crowns and ESO Plus funds. Show me the ledger. ZOS has three games in various states of development and is beholden to Bethesda, Zenimax Media, and the various investors that are involved. You might be very surprised at how much of your money actually goes to the game you play.

Cpt_Teemo

Watch they make a set in game that converts to store stats

The Way of the Gambler

1) When you buy crowns 2% chance of obtaining 50% more crowns
2) 2% chance of obtaining crowns when spent on the store
3) .5% chance of doubling purchased crowns
4) 5% chance of better odds in crown crates
5) 10% chance of obtaining a daily crate after logging in for 4 hours

Wolfpaw

Huge StarWars fan....will never touch a EA game. That company can burn.

Lisutaris

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Watch they make a set in game that converts to store stats

The Way of the Gambler

1) When you buy crowns 2% chance of obtaining 50% more crowns
2) 2% chance of obtaining crowns when spent on the store
3) .5% chance of doubling purchased crowns
4) 5% chance of better odds in crown crates
5) 10% chance of obtaining a daily crate after logging in for 4 hours

4 pcs bonus is way too nice... Well only if it is additive. By zos logic it would be *1,05. Would be balanced.
biggest question - > nerfed in future ?