Bunnyhop (long jump) exploiting

milllaurie

Yes, I am actually addressing it.

Because it has never been addressed by ZOS. This is a nasty exploit in pvp AND pve.
And before all of you who wanna tell me to "get over it" and such, yes it is an exploit.

Bunnyhopping (long jumping) gives players unfair advantage as it does not cost any resource apart of a stam regen tick. At the same time it gets you out of range just as streak would but with a cost and an increasing one. Numerous players are exploiting it in PVP, I don't do PVE much but I guess it is same story there. It would give ppl an unfair advantage getting to leaderboards when they can just jump out of a mechanic.
Countless times when fighting pvp ppl would just long jump away from being executed.

It is about time ZOS would address this, thank you.

OlumoGarbag

To be fair they nerfed the bunny hop already, at least the normal one. So zenimax does keep track of it.
How did they "fix" it?
They changed the jumping curve so that you fall way faster. That makes the jumps not nearly as far as before.

Jodynn

This is one of the stupidest things to focus on right up there with mudcrab animation.

Learn how to do it or get over it... For the record I don't bunnyhop because I'm too lazy to care, but am not bothered by anyone who does.

jecks33

milllaurie wrote: »

Numerous players are exploiting it in PVP, I don't do PVE much but I guess it is same story there..

yes, there are a ot of people jumping in the face of Rakkath and Lokkestiiz because this exploit push their dps by 25/30%

Jodynn

jecks33 wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Numerous players are exploiting it in PVP, I don't do PVE much but I guess it is same story there..

yes, there are a ot of people jumping in the face of Rakkath and Lokkestiiz because this exploit push their dps by 25/30%

LMAO WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THESE NUMBERS

If you know how to time the things you don't need to bunny hop period, if bunnyhopping is increasing your dps that much you are being very stupid with your positioning to the point you aren't even attacking the boss.

Emma_Overload

I thought they fixed this already?

Jodynn

jecks33 wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Numerous players are exploiting it in PVP, I don't do PVE much but I guess it is same story there..

yes, there are a ot of people jumping in the face of Rakkath and Lokkestiiz because this exploit push their dps by 25/30%

LMAO WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THESE NUMBERS

If you know how to time the things you don't need to bunny hop period, if bunnyhopping is increasing your dps that much you are being very stupid with your positioning to the point you aren't even attacking the boss.

Sarcasm....

Oh okay, sorry, I'm so use to people being insanely stupid on the forums I took your seriously.

Kadoin

Doubt it will be fixed, and even if so, there are more serious physics bugs to address long before then. Like the one where you apparently are not on the same plane as your opponent so you cannot be targeted by them, but they can target you.

Oh right, jumping is a problem...

milllaurie

Kadoin wrote: »

Doubt it will be fixed, and even if so, there are more serious physics bugs to address long before then. Like the one where you apparently are not on the same plane as your opponent so you cannot be targeted by them, but they can target you.

Oh right, jumping is a problem...

Yes I see what you mean. It is not jumping in particular that is broken it is it's mechanics exploiting. Just like ambushing through doors - 5 years it is not fixed. But this one needs very particular situation and an enemy going through a door and you not being at gcd at the same moment.
While long jump only needs you to press a few keys at the same moment and is virtually streak without a stun.
Remember postern door bug when some players could go through it while others couldn't? That was also giving some players an unfair advantage and was patched after a couple of weeks.

FlowOne wrote: »

L2P

Yeah dude that's why I have you on ignore ingame.

React

Nasty exploit... Maybe on PC where you can macro it. On console it's just another thing that skilled players who have practiced the precise timing required to perform the jump utilize. Of course, in typical zenimax fashion I'm sure they'll do away with it as anything that requires skill in this game usually gets the hammer.

Next thing you know we'll have cast times on all abilities to do away with animation cancelling too.

ZOS_RogerJ

Greetings! Remember, it’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic.

Dusk_Coven

Liam12548 wrote: »

On console it's just another thing that skilled players who have practiced the precise timing required to perform the jump utilize. Of course, in typical zenimax fashion I'm sure they'll do away with it as anything that requires skill in this game usually gets the hammer.

This is why PvP arguments can't be taken seriously -- trying to reframe an exploit of an unintended mechanic into "skill"?

Of course ZOS's inability to quickly plug exploits (like taking forever to fix Random Normal -> Port to Pledge) doesn't help either. They probably don't want to say anything embarrassing like "we can't fix that right now... for... reasons".

StormChaser3000

Cough...Is there a good guide somewhere how to bunnyhop on PC? Not that I'm going to use it (I'm 90% pve anyway), but I'm just curious.

UnseenCat

How to bunny-hop? Just keep tapping the jump key. Boing...Boing...Boing...Boing...Boing...Boing... while you move and target and attack your enemy. As long as you can maintain your aim, it keeps them off balance and makes it hard for them to aim and attack you. Hard enough that it really feels like an exploit to other players. It's a playstyle that's been eternally debated PvP games.

Since dodge-rolling and sprinting to evade cost significant stamina but jumping doesn't, that's why it's debated as an exploit vs player skill in ESO.

It might be better to look at it from the question of is it sportsmanlike or not. That could go on forever...

Alienoutlaw

UnseenCat wrote: »

How to bunny-hop? Just keep tapping the jump key. Boing...Boing...Boing...Boing...Boing...Boing... while you move and target and attack your enemy. As long as you can maintain your aim, it keeps them off balance and makes it hard for them to aim and attack you. Hard enough that it really feels like an exploit to other players. It's a playstyle that's been eternally debated PvP games.

Since dodge-rolling and sprinting to evade cost significant stamina but jumping doesn't, that's why it's debated as an exploit vs player skill in ESO.

It might be better to look at it from the question of is it sportsmanlike or not. That could go on forever...

thats not the "exploit" being debated, its the sprint jump that jumps you about 28m's each time (streak without cost) that is the issue and because it needs perfect timing to do most ppl that use it also use a macro

StormChaser3000

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

UnseenCat wrote: »

How to bunny-hop? Just keep tapping the jump key. Boing...Boing...Boing...Boing...Boing...Boing... while you move and target and attack your enemy. As long as you can maintain your aim, it keeps them off balance and makes it hard for them to aim and attack you. Hard enough that it really feels like an exploit to other players. It's a playstyle that's been eternally debated PvP games.

Since dodge-rolling and sprinting to evade cost significant stamina but jumping doesn't, that's why it's debated as an exploit vs player skill in ESO.

It might be better to look at it from the question of is it sportsmanlike or not. That could go on forever...

thats not the "exploit" being debated, its the sprint jump that jumps you about 28m's each time (streak without cost) that is the issue and because it needs perfect timing to do most ppl that use it also use a macro

Yep, this is the one I was talking about. I heard that you need to press jump right before the end of the previous jump or something like that...

Can someone elaborate on this please?

And also, is it possible to jump like that on the vertical axis?

Red_Feather

I've seen videos of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SUoTB2lCcA
I don't know how to do that.

StrandedMonkey

THROUGH IVY

OUT MIDDLE

AND TO OUR CONNECTOR


TO OUR CONNECTOR!!!!!

Jodynn

In a duel in PvP if someone is bunny-hopping it doesn't really... do anything against me other than I might laugh, then stun them because it takes 1 sprint tick to bunny hop so some small amount of stamina, if they continue doing it forever they won't be able to break free, and moreover it's not like I have to worry about range, as a magDK I'm use to having to chase down sorcs streaking which is much worse than bunny hopping; moreover-over it has to be on flat ground.

Why must people always cry about the stupidest things instead of trying to counter or learn it?

milllaurie

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Why must people always cry about the stupidest things instead of trying to counter or learn it?

It amazes me how some people think this is "part of the game" when it is clearly abusing game mechanics.
My point is it should not be possible to do these jumps. What is it lore-wise, logic-wise? Is it an intended mechanic? If so why don't we get cues for it like "break free", "interrupt" etc. We even loading screens with tips about light attack weaving.
It is a broken mechanic which is abused and exploited. Why should one learn it?
I would gladly remind you postern door glitch again. A broken game mechanic that was abused af. Adding absolutely no value to the game and allowing people gain an unfair advantage. I hope I explained my point.
And yes, posting on forums is a way to get dev attention. I would like to hear what they have to say about it.

Cinbri

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

This is why PvP arguments can't be taken seriously -- trying to reframe an exploit of an unintended mechanic into "skill"?

I PvPer, but it summed 100% correctly. And this happens for years about most exploits that occur from time to time.

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Yep, this is the one I was talking about. I heard that you need to press jump right before the end of the previous jump or something like that...

Can someone elaborate on this please?

We can't because... despite zos don't want to paint it as exploit and thus forced to ban people which is impossible because too many people abuse it nowdays, yet when you describe it in forum thread zos will consider it as discussing exploit and entire thread will be deleted and you might get forum ban, like it was last time when people started to discuss it.

thankyourat

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

On console it's just another thing that skilled players who have practiced the precise timing required to perform the jump utilize. Of course, in typical zenimax fashion I'm sure they'll do away with it as anything that requires skill in this game usually gets the hammer.

This is why PvP arguments can't be taken seriously -- trying to reframe an exploit of an unintended mechanic into "skill"?

Of course ZOS's inability to quickly plug exploits (like taking forever to fix Random Normal -> Port to Pledge) doesn't help either. They probably don't want to say anything embarrassing like "we can't fix that right now... for... reasons".

The reason pvp arguments can’t be taken seriously is because people who think jumping is a exploit can have a opinion on overall game balance.

Gilvoth

zenimax should add a High stamina cost to jumping. and by "high stamina cost to jumping" i mean make it so that 3 jumps will deplete your stamina pool.

Gilvoth

NeoXanthus wrote: »

@marius_buys this is a great suggestion. Bunny hopping provides some protection from attacks it should have a stamina cost associate to it. Alternatively, the developers could remove all protection benefits from it and keep it cost free although removing its benefits from a programming prospective would be much more difficult when considering line of sight. Again, this is a great suggestion.

exactly, well said.

Wabu

Cinbri wrote: »

... yet when you describe it in forum thread zos will consider it as discussing exploit and entire thread will be deleted and you might get forum ban...

True. ZoS does not help with debating the issue if they have no concrete say about it.

I personally do not mind bunny hops. I think it's a fun unintended feature, like animation cancelling. The previous iteration of bhop where players could store their momentum going down hill was ridiculous & easy to preform. Glad ZoS fixed that version of it.

The current bunny hop is conditional and limited. You cannot really preform the trick on rough terrain, and preforming jumps in quick succession is hard. The video red_feather shared shows a method to bhop. And if you look closely at it, I am pretty sure you can figure out what the player is doing. Maybe adding a base cost to jumping makes sense, so there is some double edge sword to preforming a bhop.

The reason why I think it's no biggie is because I like skill based movement in video games. It's something I think about when playing a new game. If ESO became a game where bhop & animation cancelling were removed to portray realism in a fantasy mmorpg; the whole game would have stiff movement, lose tension/creativity, and imho it would kill the game for a few
players.

I really think ZoS should embrace skill movement. But it seems like it's not the case, looking at how Dawnbreaker works atm. These movements raise the skill ceiling which make the game more fun for hardcore fans. If we were able to openly explain how wasd+spacebar could be used to bhop, like the way we talk about animation cancelling, maybe it would help the debate.

sentientomega

Jumping by itself should not have a cost, and it seems as if the abilities that help reach that long-jumping capability already have costs associated with them.

Dusk_Coven

milllaurie wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Why must people always cry about the stupidest things instead of trying to counter or learn it?

It amazes me how some people think this is "part of the game" when it is clearly abusing game mechanics.

All the excuses and dismissals and hostility against people raising the issue -- it really suggests to me that those people are scared. Scared that it's going to be formally recognized by ZOS as an exploit and their toy taken away. Scared that they will then be identified as continuing to exploit it and therefore receive a ban. So they have to quickly get in front of any debate to shut it down, ridicule it, re-frame it.

Bottom line:
Is it an unintended mechanic and exploit?
If YES - fix it. As usual ZOS is too late to ban exploiters now that they've kept quiet for too long and let it go. Like random normal -> port to pledge.

If NO - then why all the fear and freaking out if ZOS does fix it?
In any case, unintended ANYTHING in programming should be looked at. Usually it means your logic is faulty, your calculations are off, and/or you screwed up elsewhere.

All the ulterior motives in "feedback" on forums is probably why ZOS ignores most of it and doesn't bother to engage the forum with more communication.

idk

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

To be fair they nerfed the bunny hop already, at least the normal one. So zenimax does keep track of it.
How did they "fix" it?
They changed the jumping curve so that you fall way faster. That makes the jumps not nearly as far as before.

TBF I think OP is talking about an exploit with jumping. Not the regular repeated jumping. They just do make a very good distinction with describing it. It took me two reads to figure it out. Granted I am slow.

Edit: granted, I have not see the exploitive jump recently.

Squidgaurd

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

Numerous players are exploiting it in PVP, I don't do PVE much but I guess it is same story there..

yes, there are a ot of people jumping in the face of Rakkath and Lokkestiiz because this exploit push their dps by 25/30%

LMAO WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THESE NUMBERS

If you know how to time the things you don't need to bunny hop period, if bunnyhopping is increasing your dps that much you are being very stupid with your positioning to the point you aren't even attacking the boss.

I dost think that was sarcasm sir.

Squidgaurd

People complain about stupid shot to justify their own shortcomings eh.

Zelos

*Lurks*

Hmm, this is unexpected...