Honestly happy with some of the changes

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

I stopped playing an eon ago when they demolished the heavy swing molten armaments build I was using just before elf land got released.

I had a few threads complaining about things I disliked, such as literally every dps build revolving around bow back bar to get dots. Thankfully, you're changing (nerfing?) dots in such a way that MAYBE we'll see more build variety now. Hopefully DOTS will end up in a place where you can build a rotation around them or you can stick to direct damage dealing and skip having to feel like xXLegolas1235Xx

Also, overall nerfing damage is probably good for the game. When the difference between meta builds and non-meta builds is basically double, you feel compelled to only use the meta. If the top end damage potential goes way down to something like 30k while the bottom end sits around 20k, it makes it easier to swallow.

b95fister

These types of comment are futile. I’ll explain like everyone else does. If you nerf damage those who parse high will not feel the effects as those that parse low. If someone was bad a a rotation NOW they won’t magically gain a better parse if here skills are doing less damage.

I am confused on how so many people don’t understand this. By cutting all damage those that don’t don’t do a lot of damage will do even less making MORE content out of their reach......smh

Jodynn

Good luck doing vSS HM now with 80k being the max DPS, going to be more pain than it's worth.

Also the rotation is braindead, a few dots then spam 14x in a row, such, amazing, skill.

jecks33

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

I stopped playing an eon ago.

so basically you don’t know what you’re talking about

LadyNalcarya

This patch nerfs everyone across the board. Yes, even those with 20k dps... I'm not sure how dropping to 15k is gonna help them.

Casterial

It's a hit or miss, but my biggest miss is DOTs and HOTs were scales up, but only one scales down..

MartiniDaniels

Easiest thing to reduce difference between hybrids (and other non-meta builds) vs min-maxed meta builds is to ditch CP damage/mitigation bonuses. As I know 810CP grants ~35-40% to damage tooltips and to damage mitigations. Remove mighty, MAA, ironclad, healing etc CP from game (leave sustain and crit ones in place), nerf health/damage of PVE group content mobs/bosses in 30% and here you go, you may test game with more versatility in builds and 5-10% nerfed PVE dps damage and with 5-10% more damage from mobs to increase necessity in healers.... but no, let's just nerf all dots in half instead..

Cortimi

b95fister wrote: »

These types of comment are futile. I’ll explain like everyone else does. If you nerf damage those who parse high will not feel the effects as those that parse low. If someone was bad a a rotation NOW they won’t magically gain a better parse if here skills are doing less damage.

I am confused on how so many people don’t understand this. By cutting all damage those that don’t don’t do a lot of damage will do even less making MORE content out of their reach......smh

Yes you ARE confused. Those with "high parses" are using a dot-focused meta rotation.

Those with a "bad rotation" do not.

"Damage" was not nerfed this patch. Dots were nerfed.

So OP is literally correct, in that the "meta rotation" full of dots is going to plummet, however "bad rotations" that didn't rely on dot meta aren't going to be hit pretty much at all.

ArcVelarian

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

I stopped playing an eon ago when they demolished the heavy swing molten armaments build I was using just before elf land got released.

I had a few threads complaining about things I disliked, such as literally every dps build revolving around bow back bar to get dots. Thankfully, you're changing (nerfing?) dots in such a way that MAYBE we'll see more build variety now. Hopefully DOTS will end up in a place where you can build a rotation around them or you can stick to direct damage dealing and skip having to feel like xXLegolas1235Xx

Also, overall nerfing damage is probably good for the game. When the difference between meta builds and non-meta builds is basically double, you feel compelled to only use the meta. If the top end damage potential goes way down to something like 30k while the bottom end sits around 20k, it makes it easier to swallow.

Go home, you're drunk.

Facefister

Bottom end 20k? more like 8k. This patch nerfs solely people who gave a damn about their roles and rotation. The groupfinder and and trial groups will be even more strict because they wont be able to carry those snipe spammers. Happy "meta" farming.

kathandira

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

I stopped playing an eon ago when they demolished the heavy swing molten armaments build I was using just before elf land got released.

I had a few threads complaining about things I disliked, such as literally every dps build revolving around bow back bar to get dots. Thankfully, you're changing (nerfing?) dots in such a way that MAYBE we'll see more build variety now. Hopefully DOTS will end up in a place where you can build a rotation around them or you can stick to direct damage dealing and skip having to feel like xXLegolas1235Xx

Also, overall nerfing damage is probably good for the game. When the difference between meta builds and non-meta builds is basically double, you feel compelled to only use the meta. If the top end damage potential goes way down to something like 30k while the bottom end sits around 20k, it makes it easier to swallow.

Problem is, If a 70k DPS was dropped to 60k DPS, and a 20k DPS was dropped to 10k DPS, it hurt the lower end more than the top end. It did nearly nothing to close the gap between the floor and the ceiling.

Only way to do that is to analyze what the top is doing that the bottom isn't. If we are to take the forums for their word, it is Light Attack Weaving and Animation Canceling. These two things can make a huge difference between two players who have the exact same gear, skills, and CP allotment. If one does it perfectly, and the other is sloppy, you can see a huge DPS difference between their parses.

Cortimi

kathandira wrote: »

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

I stopped playing an eon ago when they demolished the heavy swing molten armaments build I was using just before elf land got released.

I had a few threads complaining about things I disliked, such as literally every dps build revolving around bow back bar to get dots. Thankfully, you're changing (nerfing?) dots in such a way that MAYBE we'll see more build variety now. Hopefully DOTS will end up in a place where you can build a rotation around them or you can stick to direct damage dealing and skip having to feel like xXLegolas1235Xx

Also, overall nerfing damage is probably good for the game. When the difference between meta builds and non-meta builds is basically double, you feel compelled to only use the meta. If the top end damage potential goes way down to something like 30k while the bottom end sits around 20k, it makes it easier to swallow.

Problem is, If a 70k DPS was dropped to 60k DPS, and a 20k DPS was dropped to 10k DPS, it hurt the lower end more than the top end. It did nearly nothing to close the gap between the floor and the ceiling.

Only way to do that is to analyze what the top is doing that the bottom isn't. If we are to take the forums for their word, it is Light Attack Weaving and Animation Canceling. These two things can make a huge difference between two players who have the exact same gear, skills, and CP allotment. If one does it perfectly, and the other is sloppy, you can see a huge DPS difference between their parses.

The only way someone is NOT getting at least 20k is by refusing to attack weaving and by using NO dots whatsoever. So dot changes are not going to reduce a 20k parse down to 10k.

The cognitive dissonance on these forums is insane.

"You use a bad rotation and have a terrible parse because you don't use appropriate actions and skills. Therefore a nerf to the 'appropriate actions and skills' is going to lower your parse. Therefore this patch is bad because it hurts noobs, so please don't nerf MY dps."

czar

kathandira wrote: »

Only way to do that is to analyze what the top is doing that the bottom isn't. If we are to take the forums for their word, it is Light Attack Weaving and Animation Canceling.

Don't forget gear. A huge portion of the casual playerbase don't have a dedicated trial group to run with, or the gold to pay for runs. Many of them still PUG harder content with subpar gear though.

kathandira

Cortimi wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

I stopped playing an eon ago when they demolished the heavy swing molten armaments build I was using just before elf land got released.

I had a few threads complaining about things I disliked, such as literally every dps build revolving around bow back bar to get dots. Thankfully, you're changing (nerfing?) dots in such a way that MAYBE we'll see more build variety now. Hopefully DOTS will end up in a place where you can build a rotation around them or you can stick to direct damage dealing and skip having to feel like xXLegolas1235Xx

Also, overall nerfing damage is probably good for the game. When the difference between meta builds and non-meta builds is basically double, you feel compelled to only use the meta. If the top end damage potential goes way down to something like 30k while the bottom end sits around 20k, it makes it easier to swallow.

Problem is, If a 70k DPS was dropped to 60k DPS, and a 20k DPS was dropped to 10k DPS, it hurt the lower end more than the top end. It did nearly nothing to close the gap between the floor and the ceiling.

Only way to do that is to analyze what the top is doing that the bottom isn't. If we are to take the forums for their word, it is Light Attack Weaving and Animation Canceling. These two things can make a huge difference between two players who have the exact same gear, skills, and CP allotment. If one does it perfectly, and the other is sloppy, you can see a huge DPS difference between their parses.

The only way someone is NOT getting at least 20k is by refusing to attack weaving and by using NO dots whatsoever. So dot changes are not going to reduce a 20k parse down to 10k.

The cognitive dissonance on these forums is insane.

"You use a bad rotation and have a terrible parse because you don't use appropriate actions and skills. Therefore a nerf to the 'appropriate actions and skills' is going to lower your parse. Therefore this patch is bad because it hurts noobs, so please don't nerf MY dps."

Even with a bad rotation, if you were using DoTs or AoEs, your output is going to be lower now. Damage reductions on this many skills is going to affect the majority of players whether they are at the top or near the bottom.

While training people on how to Weave, i've seen them get to just below 20k DPS on a Precursor. They are weaving, but it is sloppy and slow. They use the same skills, gear, and CP I use. So if I can hit 40k on a 3mil (I know, i'm not elite) but they can't get above 15k with the same rotation, skills, gear, and CP...it's because they aren't attacking fast enough, and weaving well enough.

LadyNalcarya

Cortimi wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

I stopped playing an eon ago when they demolished the heavy swing molten armaments build I was using just before elf land got released.

I had a few threads complaining about things I disliked, such as literally every dps build revolving around bow back bar to get dots. Thankfully, you're changing (nerfing?) dots in such a way that MAYBE we'll see more build variety now. Hopefully DOTS will end up in a place where you can build a rotation around them or you can stick to direct damage dealing and skip having to feel like xXLegolas1235Xx

Also, overall nerfing damage is probably good for the game. When the difference between meta builds and non-meta builds is basically double, you feel compelled to only use the meta. If the top end damage potential goes way down to something like 30k while the bottom end sits around 20k, it makes it easier to swallow.

Problem is, If a 70k DPS was dropped to 60k DPS, and a 20k DPS was dropped to 10k DPS, it hurt the lower end more than the top end. It did nearly nothing to close the gap between the floor and the ceiling.

Only way to do that is to analyze what the top is doing that the bottom isn't. If we are to take the forums for their word, it is Light Attack Weaving and Animation Canceling. These two things can make a huge difference between two players who have the exact same gear, skills, and CP allotment. If one does it perfectly, and the other is sloppy, you can see a huge DPS difference between their parses.

The only way someone is NOT getting at least 20k is by refusing to attack weaving and by using NO dots whatsoever. So dot changes are not going to reduce a 20k parse down to 10k.

The cognitive dissonance on these forums is insane.

"You use a bad rotation and have a terrible parse because you don't use appropriate actions and skills. Therefore a nerf to the 'appropriate actions and skills' is going to lower your parse. Therefore this patch is bad because it hurts noobs, so please don't nerf MY dps."

That's a nice straw man you've got here.
Casuals use tons of DoT abilities, when you're fighting dragons or questing, there's always someone casting Liquid Lighting and similar abilities. You'll see it if you turn on ally effects or whatever it's called in settings. It is in fact recommended by in-game skill advisor.
Dots are an easy way to get damage, unlike weaving, for example. It's basically free damage. So nerfing them and making weaving more important IS going to hurt casuals, unless we're talking about those who never participate in any group content and don't use any skills.
And if someone's struggling, people will always recommend something that is the most effective. So of course, when someone asks for a dps rotation, they will offer a dot rotation. There's no ill intent, believe it or not. Most raiders actually want to see the community thriving, so they're making build videos and guides etc.
But what are they going to recommend if this patch goes live? Of course, you'll have to get better at weaving, since there's not much you can do anyway. And it's a less accessible way to boost dps than casting dots. How's that more casual friendly?

And yeah, a lot of us actually care about the state of the game and how the changes affect different categories of players. People who really enjoy the game want it to thrive and that means it has to be enjoyable for everyone. I wish that nerf defenders could also be a little less self-centered and tried to look at the situation from other perspectives.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

jecks33 wrote: »

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

I stopped playing an eon ago.

so basically you don’t know what you’re talking about

I know that my best friend still plays and I know I still go out and look at alcast's stuff regularly just to see what's up.

I know that the meta for DMG is still apply as many dots as possible and go to a spammable. Same as it was when 40k was the ceiling. Now apparently 100k is?

"People with bad rotations will be hurt even moreso by this" Yeah well people who chose to not indulge the meta like me using a molten armaments heavyweaving build and no bow backbar will now be doing better because dots weren't a part of our rotation.

LadyNalcarya

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

"People with bad rotations will be hurt even moreso by this" Yeah well people who chose to not indulge the meta like me using a molten armaments heavyweaving build and no bow backbar will now be doing better because dots weren't a part of our rotation.

Eh, actually heavy attack builds are not getting buffed in this new patch. If you're not using any dots at all, your dps is probably not very high, and it will still be comparatively low regardless of the nerfs. And if you use any of the dots affected by the patch, it's gonna be lower. The fact that 100k dps dds are getting their dps reduced to 80k is not going to affect you in any positive way.
Nerfs and dps caps do nothing to promote build diversity and do not make the game more inclusive for casuals. Back in the days when we had stat caps, some people would struggle to get 500 dps and some could reach 1.2-1.5k. And when it's more difficult to meet trial dps requirements (enrage mechanics are real, and so are speedrun requirements), people would be less inclined to invite dds who play a non-meta class. Considering that new challenging content has pretty high dps requirements for hardmode, it means that many progression teams are going to lose months of their progress, and the meta will be even more strict (to achieve enough dps). Maybe the best teams will still be able to survive, but mid-tier players will be robbed of their chance to progress to endgame. Don't know about you, but I think it's unfair and I think that more than 3 teams should have a chance to collect all achievements.There's nothing good about mid-tier guilds dying. These guilds are the most realistic way to start raiding and get your titles and skins and to make friends while doing so.

Also, no offence, but "I check Alcast's website from time to time and my friend plays the game" is not enough to judge the state of the endgame. You don't have to be able to pull 100k dps, but you can just check videos of the new hardmodes, just to see how much hp the bosses have, so you can see why people are trying to push high dps. It's not endgame players who made the game so dps-centric; it was designed this way.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Eh, actually heavy attack builds are not getting buffed in this new patch. If you're not using any dots at all, your dps is probably not very high, and it will still be comparatively low regardless of the nerfs. And if you use any of the dots affected by the patch, it's gonna be lower. The fact that 100k dps dds are getting their dps reduced to 80k is not going to affect you in any positive way.

"if you're not using the thing that just got gutted to the point where it might be more feasible to not use them at all and instead use direct damage attacks or other buffs as rotation fillers instead..."

You're right about the heavy attack build portion. That's why I quit originally and still don't actually plan to come back just yet. I'll happily wait and leave the game uninstalled till I'm sure. However, as I said, this is a step towards making back bar bow less than mandatory for stam DPS. Before I quit, the "good DPS" was 40k. I could get 30k using a 2h front bar and 2h back bar. The back bar would have buffs that the front bar didn't and the AoE skills I needed for trash. If I can get back to being anywhere CLOSE to that kind of horrible discrepancy of "only" 25%... as opposed to what it currently is... I'd be happy. FWIW, I did switch to light attack weaving and bow bar for all of two days, practiced, got near 40k, hated every minute of that gameplay, and decided it was time to quit.

Bows can DIAF.
DOTS can DIAF.

Here's hoping something different comes about for once for stam dps.

Also, if you think they won't re-tune content around the lost performance and the death of middling guilds as a result, I bet you're wrong.

LadyNalcarya

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Eh, actually heavy attack builds are not getting buffed in this new patch. If you're not using any dots at all, your dps is probably not very high, and it will still be comparatively low regardless of the nerfs. And if you use any of the dots affected by the patch, it's gonna be lower. The fact that 100k dps dds are getting their dps reduced to 80k is not going to affect you in any positive way.

"if you're not using the thing that just got gutted to the point where it might be more feasible to not use them at all and instead use direct damage attacks or other buffs as rotation fillers instead..."

You're right about the heavy attack build portion. That's why I quit originally and still don't actually plan to come back just yet. I'll happily wait and leave the game uninstalled till I'm sure. However, as I said, this is a step towards making back bar bow less than mandatory for stam DPS. Before I quit, the "good DPS" was 40k. I could get 30k using a 2h front bar and 2h back bar. The back bar would have buffs that the front bar didn't and the AoE skills I needed for trash. If I can get back to being anywhere CLOSE to that kind of horrible discrepancy of "only" 25%... as opposed to what it currently is... I'd be happy. FWIW, I did switch to light attack weaving and bow bar for all of two days, practiced, got near 40k, hated every minute of that gameplay, and decided it was time to quit.

Bows can DIAF.
DOTS can DIAF.

Here's hoping something different comes about for once for stam dps.

Also, if you think they won't re-tune content around the lost performance and the death of middling guilds as a result, I bet you're wrong.

So you don't even play the game? Eh, ok then.
But anyway, what's so good about this? One meta is getting replaced with another, the best you can hope for is that your non-meta build is not getting rekt. Even then, it won't become any more viable because dps checks in dungeons and trials remain unchanged, and this is what most people actually care about.
Actually I'm arguing against the patch because I want to see more build diversity and more people participating in trials. It's true that dots were overtuned in the current live patch, but they also made previously underperforming classes (Magden, macro, magdk) stronger, and it was a good thing.

As for 30 vs 40k dps thing, it's just the new iron atronach dummy. If you killed that dummy with your 30k char, you'd get 50-55k. It gives you trial buffs, basically. Those are not unbuffed numbers and you shouldnt compare them to your unbuffed parse.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

So you don't even play the game? Eh, ok then.

Correct. Not since prepatch to Summerset.

But anyway, what's so good about this? One meta is getting replaced with another, the best you can hope for is that your non-meta build is not getting rekt.

My non-meta was already wrecked and doesn't look like it's getting fully fixed. That's why this is simply a step in the right direction for me.

Even then, it won't become any more viable because dps checks in dungeons and trials remain unchanged, and this is what most people actually care about.

Right, and this is where I think you're crazy. Now I'm talking out of my ace about this, but I saw someone talking about their mag something going from 100k to 80k, and that it would be nearly mathematically impossible for groups to push one of the vet trials as a result. There is no way ZOS lets that stand. The instant they see no one clearing stuff, they will nerf those bosses/encounters/whatever.

As for 30 vs 40k dps thing, it's just the new iron atronach dummy. If you killed that dummy with your 30k char, you'd get 50-55k. It gives you trial buffs, basically. Those are not unbuffed numbers and you shouldnt compare them to your unbuffed parse.

That's fair, but besides the point. 55k is worse than 100k by a factor larger than 30k is worse than 40k.

Juhasow

Cortimi wrote: »

b95fister wrote: »

These types of comment are futile. I’ll explain like everyone else does. If you nerf damage those who parse high will not feel the effects as those that parse low. If someone was bad a a rotation NOW they won’t magically gain a better parse if here skills are doing less damage.

I am confused on how so many people don’t understand this. By cutting all damage those that don’t don’t do a lot of damage will do even less making MORE content out of their reach......smh

Yes you ARE confused. Those with "high parses" are using a dot-focused meta rotation.

Those with a "bad rotation" do not.

"Damage" was not nerfed this patch. Dots were nerfed.

So OP is literally correct, in that the "meta rotation" full of dots is going to plummet, however "bad rotations" that didn't rely on dot meta aren't going to be hit pretty much at all.

Problem is because DoTs will become weaker now even higher percentage of DPS will come from light attacks so light attack weaving will become even more important now and we all know people who have issues with rotations have even bigger issues with light attack weaving.

LiquidPony

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Eh, actually heavy attack builds are not getting buffed in this new patch. If you're not using any dots at all, your dps is probably not very high, and it will still be comparatively low regardless of the nerfs. And if you use any of the dots affected by the patch, it's gonna be lower. The fact that 100k dps dds are getting their dps reduced to 80k is not going to affect you in any positive way.

"if you're not using the thing that just got gutted to the point where it might be more feasible to not use them at all and instead use direct damage attacks or other buffs as rotation fillers instead..."

You're right about the heavy attack build portion. That's why I quit originally and still don't actually plan to come back just yet. I'll happily wait and leave the game uninstalled till I'm sure. However, as I said, this is a step towards making back bar bow less than mandatory for stam DPS. Before I quit, the "good DPS" was 40k. I could get 30k using a 2h front bar and 2h back bar. The back bar would have buffs that the front bar didn't and the AoE skills I needed for trash. If I can get back to being anywhere CLOSE to that kind of horrible discrepancy of "only" 25%... as opposed to what it currently is... I'd be happy. FWIW, I did switch to light attack weaving and bow bar for all of two days, practiced, got near 40k, hated every minute of that gameplay, and decided it was time to quit.

Bows can DIAF.
DOTS can DIAF.

Here's hoping something different comes about for once for stam dps.

Also, if you think they won't re-tune content around the lost performance and the death of middling guilds as a result, I bet you're wrong.

Well, apparently in that time you've been gone, you missed the fact that non-bow builds like 2H/DW and 2H/2H and DW/DW are already viable. Not optimal, but definitely viable.

This patch is not a step towards making backbar bow less mandatory. If anything it's regression, because Stampede and Carve both took significant DPS nerfs.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

Juhasow wrote: »

Problem is because DoTs will become weaker now even higher percentage of DPS will come from light attacks so light attack weaving will become even more important now and we all know people who have issues with rotations have even bigger issues with light attack weaving.

1) Light attack weaving was easy when I attempted to do it, so people can just gitgud, but...

2) The community at large seems to hate attack weaving, so they can fix that the same way they fixed "maintaining 10 different secondary damage sources"

Light attacks being better DPS than heavy attacks never made sense to me anyways. Heavy attack should be the thing you do for damage and light attacks are what you do to allow stamina to regenerate, just like actual ES games. Boom. Meta of light attack weaving now crushed.

Juhasow

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Eh, actually heavy attack builds are not getting buffed in this new patch. If you're not using any dots at all, your dps is probably not very high, and it will still be comparatively low regardless of the nerfs. And if you use any of the dots affected by the patch, it's gonna be lower. The fact that 100k dps dds are getting their dps reduced to 80k is not going to affect you in any positive way.

"if you're not using the thing that just got gutted to the point where it might be more feasible to not use them at all and instead use direct damage attacks or other buffs as rotation fillers instead..."

You're right about the heavy attack build portion. That's why I quit originally and still don't actually plan to come back just yet. I'll happily wait and leave the game uninstalled till I'm sure. However, as I said, this is a step towards making back bar bow less than mandatory for stam DPS. Before I quit, the "good DPS" was 40k. I could get 30k using a 2h front bar and 2h back bar. The back bar would have buffs that the front bar didn't and the AoE skills I needed for trash. If I can get back to being anywhere CLOSE to that kind of horrible discrepancy of "only" 25%... as opposed to what it currently is... I'd be happy. FWIW, I did switch to light attack weaving and bow bar for all of two days, practiced, got near 40k, hated every minute of that gameplay, and decided it was time to quit.

Bows can DIAF.
DOTS can DIAF.

Here's hoping something different comes about for once for stam dps.

Also, if you think they won't re-tune content around the lost performance and the death of middling guilds as a result, I bet you're wrong.

Your knowledge is outdated. Since quite some time bows are not required on back bar for stamina characters to reach competitive DPS.

Here is a parse of dw+2h I've made few months ago

Problem with new update though is that basically nothing is required on back bar because differences in DPS between spams on 1 bar and rotations where You swap between 2 bars have very low DPS difference when 1 bar spams are way easier to maintain. It got so silly that destro staff on back bar is reaching similar or even higher DPS on stamina characters then other stamina based weapons.

LadyNalcarya

Correct. Not since prepatch to Summerset.

No offence, but if you don't know the situation on live server (hearsay and Alcast vids do not provide a full picture), then how can you judge the situation and what's good for the game?

Right, and this is where I think you're crazy. Now I'm talking out of my ace about this, but I saw someone talking about their mag something going from 100k to 80k, and that it would be nearly mathematically impossible for groups to push one of the vet trials as a result. There is no way ZOS lets that stand. The instant they see no one clearing stuff, they will nerf those bosses/encounters/whatever.

Just to clarify, if you've seen those insane 130k parses and stuff, it's just Bastion champion points being bugged, it's not for real. Real ones are closer to 80k, from those players who can do 100k on live (which means that players who currently pull 80k will be pushed lower etc).
And yes, the requirements are really this high. If you really think I'm crazy, check this:
https://youtu.be/DbQGEPNamyU
Please check how much hp the bosses have and keep in mind there is hard dps check (killing adds, miniboss in the portal etc). And let's be honest, we both know that ZOS is notorious for not fixing stuff.

That's fair, but besides the point. 55k is worse than 100k by a factor larger than 30k is worse than 40k.

But you quit the game more than a year ago! Nowadays you'd pull much more than that. 30-40k is easier to get now than it used to be. It's how the game works, for example, in patch 1.6 you'd be happy to pull 20k and it was as difficult as getting 100k now.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

LiquidPony wrote: »

Well, apparently in that time you've been gone, you missed the fact that non-bow builds like 2H/DW and 2H/2H and DW/DW are already viable. Not optimal, but definitely viable.

I didn't say it in this thread unfortunately, but I definitely only tend towards caring if what I personally want is OPTIMAL. It's like ret discussions on the classic wow sub-forum all over again. "Well, ret might be only doing 50% of the damage of other actual optimal classes, but you don't need that!"

I suppose I'm too egotistical to not want to be optimal, but too vain to not want to use what I want to use. Ergo, only time I'm happy in any game is when the two cross sections meet. In fantasy land, that means being a heavy armor wearing, 2h greatsword using badass smashing faces, topping meters.

In the context of ESO specifically, if I don't see a stam 2h dps build on alcast's site that doesn't use a back bow, I won't be happy.

This patch is not a step towards making backbar bow less mandatory. If anything it's regression, because Stampede and Carve both took significant DPS nerfs.

I think this remains to be seen. This would only be the case if DOTS even get used at all. It might finally end up being more efficient, time and resource wise, to just use another direct attack... or to maintain a plethora of buffs instead of dots, etc.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

Juhasow wrote: »

Problem with new update though is that basically nothing is required on back bar because differences in DPS between spams on 1 bar and rotations where You swap between 2 bars have very low DPS difference when 1 bar spams are way easier to maintain. It got so silly that destro staff on back bar is reaching similar or even higher DPS on stamina characters then other stamina based weapons.

I'm okay with this as well. Swapping bar should be for two completely different combat situations. If the combat situation stays the same, I shouldn't be bar swapping IMO.

Like I said, my back bar when I used MA heavy weaving build was strictly just to get AoE 2h abilities on there with ANOTHER great sword and a few extra buffs I could put in the rotation to make my front bar stuff hit harder. I basically only ever want to look at a 2h sword, so you saying less bar switching is needed is just magic to my ears.

I'm definitely well aware that my knowledge is out of date, though, so thank you for showing me that build. Any and all of my knowledge comes from the same place it came from before, under the assumption that alcast is still the best at OP build making.

I still maintain that this is all just good news to me and I like the change and am eager to see what else comes.

LadyNalcarya

I didn't say it in this thread unfortunately, but I definitely only tend towards caring if what I personally want is OPTIMAL. It's like ret discussions on the classic wow sub-forum all over again. "Well, ret might be only doing 50% of the damage of other actual optimal classes, but you don't need that!"

I suppose I'm too egotistical to not want to be optimal, but too vain to not want to use what I want to use. Ergo, only time I'm happy in any game is when the two cross sections meet. In fantasy land, that means being a heavy armor wearing, 2h greatsword using badass smashing faces, topping meters.

The thing with online games is that no matter how good you are, there's always someone better, you just have to accept it. But you can certainly be a sword-wielding badass in heavy armor (armor style system is awesome!), and you can certainly pull high dps if you put enough effort in it.

Juhasow

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Problem is because DoTs will become weaker now even higher percentage of DPS will come from light attacks so light attack weaving will become even more important now and we all know people who have issues with rotations have even bigger issues with light attack weaving.

1) Light attack weaving was easy when I attempted to do it, so people can just gitgud, but...

2) The community at large seems to hate attack weaving, so they can fix that the same way they fixed "maintaining 10 different secondary damage sources"

Light attacks being better DPS than heavy attacks never made sense to me anyways. Heavy attack should be the thing you do for damage and light attacks are what you do to allow stamina to regenerate, just like actual ES games. Boom. Meta of light attack weaving now crushed.

1) And what light attack ratio You were getting at the end ? Was it with 1 ability spammed ot with full rotation?
2) Where did You get that information about what most of the community hates ? Any reliable source of data ? Or Just Your own assumptions ?

So at the end You just crush 1 meta to bring new one that is slower and boring ? What is the point of that ? Actually last time when ZoS tried to introduce heavy attack meta to the game during Morrowind lot of people were hating it and since then ZoS was doing a lot to revert that. Fact You like something doesnt mean everyone esle likes that too.

Xvorg

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Problem with new update though is that basically nothing is required on back bar because differences in DPS between spams on 1 bar and rotations where You swap between 2 bars have very low DPS difference when 1 bar spams are way easier to maintain. It got so silly that destro staff on back bar is reaching similar or even higher DPS on stamina characters then other stamina based weapons.

I'm okay with this as well. Swapping bar should be for two completely different combat situations. If the combat situation stays the same, I shouldn't be bar swapping IMO.

Like I said, my back bar when I used MA heavy weaving build was strictly just to get AoE 2h abilities on there with ANOTHER great sword and a few extra buffs I could put in the rotation to make my front bar stuff hit harder. I basically only ever want to look at a 2h sword, so you saying less bar switching is needed is just magic to my ears.

I'm definitely well aware that my knowledge is out of date, though, so thank you for showing me that build. Any and all of my knowledge comes from the same place it came from before, under the assumption that alcast is still the best at OP build making.

I still maintain that this is all just good news to me and I like the change and am eager to see what else comes.

What?

Sorry, are you serious?

Back bar should provide especific DoTs/buffs that main bar cannot provide. Not to mention the fact that some specs use certain ultis main bar for utility (like WW, Soul harvest, temporal guard, Attro on stamsorcs, etc), while the ulti to be used is slotted backbar.

And I haven't mentioned glyphs... that's another theme.

Juhasow

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Problem with new update though is that basically nothing is required on back bar because differences in DPS between spams on 1 bar and rotations where You swap between 2 bars have very low DPS difference when 1 bar spams are way easier to maintain. It got so silly that destro staff on back bar is reaching similar or even higher DPS on stamina characters then other stamina based weapons.

I'm okay with this as well. Swapping bar should be for two completely different combat situations. If the combat situation stays the same, I shouldn't be bar swapping IMO.

Like I said, my back bar when I used MA heavy weaving build was strictly just to get AoE 2h abilities on there with ANOTHER great sword and a few extra buffs I could put in the rotation to make my front bar stuff hit harder. I basically only ever want to look at a 2h sword, so you saying less bar switching is needed is just magic to my ears.

I'm definitely well aware that my knowledge is out of date, though, so thank you for showing me that build. Any and all of my knowledge comes from the same place it came from before, under the assumption that alcast is still the best at OP build making.

I still maintain that this is all just good news to me and I like the change and am eager to see what else comes.

Ok here is the thing. You're not the one who decides what should and what shouldn't be used and for what. That is Your private preference but dont try to push it towards everyone else because You like it. Also You were never forced to switch bars or to use bow on back bar at the 1st place. Even without that You could always do more DPS then it's required to clear all veteran content in the game. All You needed was knowing how and theorycrafting setup for that and that is the biggest issue I think people were just too lazy to find setups on their own so when they were failing to copy paste Youtubers setups they were rioting. I also proved You that since quite some time You were not needing bow on back bar to reach meta DPS.

But I think the biggest issue here is Your attitude. You behave like a person that wants to be rewarded without putting any effort into learning how to skillfully play in ESO and hates every aspect of the game that creates learning curve above button mashing like older MMOs have. You think that it's the game that should adapt to You and what You like and make it meta not opposite. Sorry to say this but You are just a lazy person that dont want to learn how to play. As You said previously "gitgud".