Necromancer Colossus Ultimate

ZachZero

The new patch notes are making this ult and it's morphs only grant Major Vulnerability on the third Smash. This change would make it completely useless in PvP and the class itself is already lacking in terms of PVP viability.
I understand that this skill needed to be nerfed for PVE purposes. 9 seconds of Major Vulnerability is way too much in an aoe/singletarget.

So I have a solution that will reduce it's PVE overperformance and still make it somewhat viable for PVP.

Two Possible Solutions;
First possible solution: Any cast that inflicts Major Vulnerability will be immune to this status effect by the same Colossus for 10 seconds. (So if any of the three smashes land it would grant major vulnerability BUT it cannot inflict it again if within 10 seconds)
Second possible solution: Make the first smash grant Major Vulnerability for 3 seconds and just have the next two smashes deal increased damage.

I believe the above mentioned options are more than fair in terms of balancing this ultimate. (This would be a balanced nerf and not a sledgehammer nerf)
If this patch changes the ult to only having the last Smash inflict Vulnerability, Necro's will become a very dead class in terms of PVP in both Stamina and Magicka outfits.

Please take this suggestion into consideration, I'm open to feedback but please keep it constructive.

Insco851

Make it the first hit and only the first hit. Only completely blind players will get hit by the last hit basically making it nothing more than a highly telegraphed ultimate with no upside.

Unless I can get one of those fun 70% snares attached to the area. You know cuz snares are fun.

LiquidPony

ZachZero wrote: »

The new patch notes are making this ult and it's morphs only grant Major Vulnerability on the third Smash. This change would make it completely useless in PvP and the class itself is already lacking in terms of PVP viability.
I understand that this skill needed to be nerfed for PVE purposes. 9 seconds of Major Vulnerability is way too much in an aoe/singletarget.

So I have a solution that will reduce it's PVE overperformance and still make it somewhat viable for PVP.

Two Possible Solutions;
First possible solution: Any cast that inflicts Major Vulnerability will be immune to this status effect by the same Colossus for 10 seconds. (So if any of the three smashes land it would grant major vulnerability BUT it cannot inflict it again if within 10 seconds)
Second possible solution: Make the first smash grant Major Vulnerability for 3 seconds and just have the next two smashes deal increased damage.

I believe the above mentioned options are more than fair in terms of balancing this ultimate. (This would be a balanced nerf and not a sledgehammer nerf)
If this patch changes the ult to only having the last Smash inflict Vulnerability, Necro's will become a very dead class in terms of PVP in both Stamina and Magicka outfits.

Please take this suggestion into consideration, I'm open to feedback but please keep it constructive.

On Live, Major Vulnerability is 5 seconds, not 9.

ZachZero

I said 9 seconds because i believe the Major Vulnerability buff was 3 seconds which if the smash hits a stationary target in PVE thats a total of 9 seconds of Major Vulnerability.
We've already established that this ultimate is overpowered for PVE.
I suggested fair and balanced changes to correct it without sledgehammering it.

jypcy

ZachZero wrote: »

I said 9 seconds because i believe the Major Vulnerability buff was 3 seconds which if the smash hits a stationary target in PVE thats a total of 9 seconds of Major Vulnerability.
We've already established that this ultimate is overpowered for PVE.
I suggested fair and balanced changes to correct it without sledgehammering it.

Each smash applies major vuln for 3 seconds starting when the smash lands, and a smash lands every second. So if you get out after the first smash you’ll only suffer 3 seconds of the debuff. On a stationary target, they’ll suffer 1 second from the first smash before that’s overridden by the second smash landing. Then 1 second from the second smash before that’s overridden by the third smash landing. Then the full 3 seconds from the third smash.

Edit: but despite that, I still agree that it probably makes more sense to apply the debuff on the first smash rather than the final one, especially with highly mobile targets in pvpland.

Royalthought

Apply it on the first smash and have it last long enough to impact the ult itself and it's fine.

If they go through with having it applied on the last hit the class itself will actually need a necromancer.

Nemesis7884

maybe just reduce the amound major vul gives from 30% to 25 or 20% instead?

Zalathorm

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

maybe just reduce the amound major vul gives from 30% to 25 or 20% instead?

No.

Reductions in duration or the % debuff does not fix STACKING of necros in a raid. Even at 20% with 5 seconds you would stack 8 necros.

The only wait to fix stacking and increase build diversity is give enemies immunity to major vuln for x seconds after being hit with it.

Keep colossus impactful. 30% damage, lasts 5 seconds. Cannot be reapplied for 20 seconds.

Boom. You gain class diversity by only needing 2-3 necros.

Kolzki

Zalathorm wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

maybe just reduce the amound major vul gives from 30% to 25 or 20% instead?

No.

Reductions in duration or the % debuff does not fix STACKING of necros in a raid. Even at 20% with 5 seconds you would stack 8 necros.

The only wait to fix stacking and increase build diversity is give enemies immunity to major vuln for x seconds after being hit with it.

Keep colossus impactful. 30% damage, lasts 5 seconds. Cannot be reapplied for 20 seconds.

Boom. You gain class diversity by only needing 2-3 necros.

Too true. Having an over powered buff over a short period of time is what leads to bringing as many necro ults as possible. Making it shorter would just make me want to bring more necros so that we always have a few colusses up through burn windows.

LiquidPony

ZachZero wrote: »

I said 9 seconds because i believe the Major Vulnerability buff was 3 seconds which if the smash hits a stationary target in PVE thats a total of 9 seconds of Major Vulnerability.
We've already established that this ultimate is overpowered for PVE.
I suggested fair and balanced changes to correct it without sledgehammering it.

That's not how it works. It reapplies the 3-second duration on each smash.

First smash: Begin 3s of Major Vuln
Second smash: 1s total duration, reapply 3s of Major Vuln
Third smash: 2s total duration, reapply 3s of Major Vuln

The end-result is 5s of Major Vuln.

Zalathorm

And by the way, having colossus is GREAT. It feels so good and strong to use. I still grin every time I say "My colossus" in discord and cast such a game changing ability.

I wish every class had something so unique and important that you would want 2 of them in every raid.

That should be the goal.

First, you have to prevent stacking of the same thing such that having 8 of one class is the best strategy.

ZachZero

Best way to balance then would be to give immunity to Colossus Vulnerability for 10-20 seconds after it lands successfully once

ArchMikem

Someone saying a Bashcro in PvP is worthless is the funniest thing ive ever heard.

Kadoin

Someone obviously hasn't experienced a zerg of necros yet, or participates in them. You can do what others have to do for their burst damage: cc at the right moment and time your burst.

Oh wait, that's right the forums hate seeing anyone disagree with them. I better get out of here!

ChefZero

ZachZero wrote: »

Best way to balance then would be to give immunity to Colossus Vulnerability for 10-20 seconds after it lands successfully once

They could specifically give that to bosses like cc immunity.

Nemesis7884

Zalathorm wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

maybe just reduce the amound major vul gives from 30% to 25 or 20% instead?

No.

Reductions in duration or the % debuff does not fix STACKING of necros in a raid. Even at 20% with 5 seconds you would stack 8 necros.

The only wait to fix stacking and increase build diversity is give enemies immunity to major vuln for x seconds after being hit with it.

Keep colossus impactful. 30% damage, lasts 5 seconds. Cannot be reapplied for 20 seconds.

Boom. You gain class diversity by only needing 2-3 necros.

good idea