QUIT CHANGING COMBAT EVERY PATCH

Morimizo

ArchMikem wrote: »

Besides if the combat stayed exactly the same for the last 5 years everyone would've quit playing because of how stale it's been.

I foolishly expected that the combat would get more interesting due to their adding additional morphs to skills, adding new weapon styles, etc.; not just mix, match, dice, and hash the existing ones.

I believe it is quite clear that the original, very talented designers of this game must be gone, with only the maintenance team left. And like any group of bored humans, they amuse themselves by damaging their immediate environment. It's like an elongated All-State 'Mayhem' commercial.

GrimTheReaper45

If they had listened to this a year ago I would have been all on board but as of right now combat sucks so much I actually want them to change things.

They need to make combat fun again and give classes Identity that they have been stripping away for the last year.

DR4GONFL1

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Ecv10

Everyone who belongs to these forums can't really be considered a "casual player" they took the time to seek and join the forum because of a vested interest in the game (my opinion lol) that said I am extremely discouraged with the amount of time and real life money I have invested in game.I maxed 8 characters since thrives guild,and spent way more than necessary in crown store lol.I pretty much stopped playing (although my eso plus ends next july) after I saw the changes made in crown store (skill lines,skyshards) and it seems odd they are now switching things around soo dramatically you almost have to buy"fully leveled skill lines" just to keep up if you do not want to once again grind for hours. I DONT see anything beneficial in what they are doing,all the players I played with are gone,"ADAPT" IS the term used by those still sticking up for the changes,but who the he'll wants to "adapt" every 3 months to DRASTIC changes on a game they have vested time and money into,not to mention when eso is gone,ur investment is gone,u can't play offline.Its just not fun anymore,I have no regrets,met some great people and had hours of fun,but these changes are too over the top.Hopefully the newer player base will sustain eso,it seems that is who they are catering to at this point

Bryath

Roxie5D wrote: »

This type of stuff never bothered me as I'm just a casual quester, but even I find it's getting really annoying now! -.-

Agree, I'm usually very tolerant of changes in these games, but I've lost any desire to play for the time being. Logged in to my EQ2 account for the first time in 9 years yesterday lol.

Mr_Walker

VaranisArano wrote: »

Horizontal Progression

Insert obligatory comment about how this isn't really a thing.

Ingel_Riday

I wonder what the response would have been if, instead of nerfing dots into the ground and dramatically increasing energy costs, they had buffed up spammables by XX%, reverted some of the AOE nerfs, and increased enemy health and damage by XX%.

Then you'd have added more positive player incentives to use spammables and different AOEs while also slightly nerfing all players equally by increasing enemy difficulty. Heck, they could have followed this up with an across-the-board stat squish a year later to bring down processing power on the servers and game bandwidth (like World of Warcraft did). 20k health becomes 10k, 40k mana becomes 20k, 3,200 weapon damage becomes 1,600, etc.. Smaller numbers for the data grinder.

Oh well. We'll never know. Also, thank you to @Ecv10 for your assessment. I also think that by the time you've bothered to make a forum account and come here to lament the changes, you've pretty much shown that you aren't an absolute casual. :-P

linoge63

Just another round of minor changes coming, nothing to see here

Vanos444

webrgesner wrote: »

Not many of us have gold like that. Im tired of having to gold out new gears, traitchange, and learning a new rotation. I DONT MIND them changing it every now and then but this the 3rd time in a row. This sets us back in raiding cuz we have to farm BIS gears and hit a certain amount of numbers on the target dummy. Not only that... but its just NERF NERF NERF... Jeez DPS role is basically crap next patch

I agree, but it's been like this for years. Only, now it's done more quicker from 6 months to 3 months.
My guess is, it's still in alpha stage and we are the testers.( Except we pay money for them)

webrgesner

kargen27 wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

When content becomes face roll they have to do something!

When there are many threads about buffing content difficulty, they have to do something!

When teams clear VMOL HM in 14 mins they have to do something!

When people post 141k parses they have to do something!

Im not saying they have got it right but at least they are trying something!

Im the first to bash on zos when they F up but this dot meta didn't work so they are acting, so lets see what the final live release is before losing minds. Bear in mind this game has to be balanced around pvp as that's the only true test!
pve balance is easy.

Most content is not a faceroll! Do you know how many people can pull those numbers and clear vmol HM that fast? On PC we're talking about a hundred people AT MOST. Out of millions of active players. Yes, that is the state of the endgame community.

As someone progging vSS HMs, we've basically got until this patch goes live to clear all before the team disbands. You act like the whole endgame playerbase is steamrolling through content but the reality is that it's still tough even with the high DPS we have right now.

The game cannot and should not be balanced around the tiny handful of people who have cleared everything and play like a machine.

A good part of the time groups fail because they do not pay attention to mechanics not because they lack the DPS. Yes they lack the DPS to burn through like the elite groups do but that doesn't mean the content is too hard. I joined groups that tried to burn Black Rose Prison like two groups in popular YouTube videos did it. I went in as the healer. The groups failed. We didn't have the DPS to do it. We then learned to slow down pay attention to more than just burning the boss and though it was a struggle we made it through. These changes will make more players have to take mechanics into account. That is a good change.
Most in these forums tried to tell me my healer was dead when those changes were put in place. No way would I ever be able to heal without multiple orbs. They were wrong. I had to change my rotation but I heal just fine. There is no content that I could do before that now I cannot. I'm guessing the same will be true with these changes. We will adapt and everything will be okay.

BRP is the first pve content i got into before switching to pve from pvp. YOU CAN burn adds/bosses fast enough with reps. I have unchained. I sucked at dps'ing but we kept pushing and pushing and practicing until we actually burned the boss faster than the people on youtube. And thats my point if you look at it in a bigger scale. Groups take the time to get better at the content and killing certain adds/boss. It takes time. And then zos just messes everything up by nerfing things. and then we gotta take our time to practice the content again then BOOM another nerf next patch. People cant keep up with this. There is no end game if everything is gonna keep changing every patch. Its just frustrating.

GraphicArtistYT

webrgesner wrote: »

Not many of us have gold like that. Im tired of having to gold out new gears, traitchange, and learning a new rotation. I DONT MIND them changing it every now and then but this the 3rd time in a row. This sets us back in raiding cuz we have to farm BIS gears and hit a certain amount of numbers on the target dummy. Not only that... but its just NERF NERF NERF... Jeez DPS role is basically crap next patch

Ye. Rip ESO

Bam_Bam

Stebarnz wrote: »

When content becomes face roll they have to do something!

When there are many threads about buffing content difficulty, they have to do something!

When teams clear VMOL HM in 14 mins they have to do something!

When people post 141k parses they have to do something!

Im not saying they have got it right but at least they are trying something!

Im the first to bash on zos when they F up but this dot meta didn't work so they are acting, so lets see what the final live release is before losing minds. Bear in mind this game has to be balanced around pvp as that's the only true test!
pve balance is easy.

Actually, they don't have to do anything at all, except to keep that crown store well-oiled...

ShellaSunshine

I stopped reading patch notes 2 years ago.

I haven't noticed any drastic changes. Either learn to play the game as intended without exploits or adapt to new changes.

As of right now, the game is ridiculously easy. I welcome any changes that actually brings challenge to the game.

Hard mode should be hard.

Jeremy

webrgesner wrote: »

Not many of us have gold like that. Im tired of having to gold out new gears, traitchange, and learning a new rotation. I DONT MIND them changing it every now and then but this the 3rd time in a row. This sets us back in raiding cuz we have to farm BIS gears and hit a certain amount of numbers on the target dummy. Not only that... but its just NERF NERF NERF... Jeez DPS role is basically crap next patch

This game needed big adjustments. "Power Creep" as it's called was just way out of control and if had been left to continue it would have eventually ruined the game. The fact the developers are putting so much time and effort into trying to combat it simply says they care about the game. And that's good.

Change is not always a bad thing. Sometimes it's a good thing and this game did nothing but improve after the last update. I suspect that will be the case after this next one as well.

To those who keep chasing the "meta" - My advice: just simply stop upgrading your gear to legendary until these balance adjustments are finished. Because it's likely going to take a few more updates before everything is fleshed out.

Bekkael

I’m just tired. 😔

I play ESO to unwind from my real-life stresses and have a bit of enjoyment, but this year I find myself annoyed and frustrated every time they “update” the game. It’s not only the combat changes for me, but also the awful lag, constant load screens just riding around a half empty zone (without using sprint or rapids!), and having most of the people I used to play with all quit the game.

I don’t mind changes at all, as long as it is something occasionally positive and not just depressing change on top of depressing change. I main a Nord MagDK, and I weathered everything the sadists at ZOS have done to her, but yeah, I’m weary now. A hobby is supposed to be enjoyable and uplifting, but I don’t really feel uplifted since Elsweyr dropped. I’ve done all the content in the game on her that I can, but there’s a ton I’ll never be able to do: Vet stuff and trials is generally beyond me, and the gap between top players and middle of the road types like me just gets wider with every round of combat changes.

I’m giving ESO until the end of this year, and if playing feels like a chore instead of a pleasure, then it will be time for me to find something else to do with my time and money. I have a lot invested in this game, like pretty much everyone on the forums, so I hope some good change is coming and they figure out what to do with the Champion system etc., but it’s wait and see.

Siohwenoeht

I'm still waiting to see what this new "vision" ends up being, but until it becomes clearer, I've decided to just focus on levelling the rest of my toons and stockpiling purple and gold mats until the dust settles. I made the mistake of re-theorycrafting 2 of mine after elsweyr dropped. I didn't change anything after scalebreaker except some skills (that were already levelled and had skill points) on my Templar because I saw the dot nerfs from a mile away.

The bright side for me is that I'll have a new magsorc, dk (dunmer so could go mag or Stam), magblade, and one of each warden ready to go by the new year lol.

At this point I can only recommend to have a variety so that the nerfs don't take out all of your builds each time. Far less frustrating.

Grandma

i don't know what roles you guys do where you need to farm gold mats every patch. i've been in master architect/MS since last winter on my magdps, and switched to pfgd out of MA and have been sticking with that since elsweyr. And that's not changing any time soon.

literally all these changes do is change skills and rotations. which sucks and is a huge dps loss, but come on. what kind of builds are you making where you need to switch both of your sets every patch?

Marcus_Thracius

Where are the Erp patch notes??? Yo Gina - where where are they?

Bam_Bam

Adapt and overcome. Or don't.

Palidon

Nerfing has become a ZOS standard. Just wait until the next update after this new upcoming one. Bet more nerfs. The nerfs will never end. Just once I would like them to completely focus on fixing the performance and bug issues plaguing their game.

hregrin

ShellaSunshine wrote: »

I stopped reading patch notes 2 years ago.

I haven't noticed any drastic changes. Either learn to play the game as intended without exploits or adapt to new changes.

As of right now, the game is ridiculously easy. I welcome any changes that actually brings challenge to the game.

Hard mode should be hard.

If you haven't notice major changes in the last two years, then you don't play the kind of contents that will be impacted the most by said changes.

The game is ridiculously easy if you play basegame or older DLC contents because of said power creep. Hence the changes you claim not having noticed.

And yes, hardmode should be hard. No one argues about it. Yet it shouldn't become impossible. As of now, the last boss of vSS HM requires three people to pull 43k DPS self-buffed in an AoE-heavy context. It's not recommended, it doesn't simply make things easier, it is required. Plain and simple. If that condition isn't met, it results in a full group wipe.

In the current setting, only the top three guilds worldwide (Hodor, Mechanically Challenged and Unchained Animals) have cleared Godslayer, each of them within three minutes of the time limit. That's 36 players worldwide, four months after the trial has been released.

I have nothing against a DPS nerf if it aims at making older content relevant again, but that shouldn't mean newer content is near or impossible to complete, which will be the case should the current proposed patch go to live without adjustements to said content.

Yes, hard mode should be hard. Yes, the current power creep makes older content obsolete and something should be done about that, but no, endgame is not a faceroll. Look at the videos from the 36 who have cleared Godslayer. Look at their faces when they finally clear it. It is the result of months of hard trying, learning every nook and crany of the mechanics and mastering their builds. It is nowhere near easy.

Grianasteri

I just finished changing up one of my Magplar to a dot dps... farmed the gear, levelled the skills, sorted the traits & enchants... woe is me.



I do wish they would stop messing around with the fabric of our builds and dealt with power creep in a more humane, consistent way.

Grianasteri

Morimizo wrote: »

Nerfing is like a flat tax; to someone pulling 100k+ DPS, it's irritating, but not that big a deal when 30% is shaved. To a filthy casual like myself averaging 30, losing 9, as well as utility and functionality to an increasing array of skills used for 5 years, while not making the overland questing much harder (though certainly more tedious in spots), it does drastically reduce any desire to engage with the more difficult content like trials, etc.

I have no doubt these rounds of punitive nerfs are just the beginning; CP will be reworked or scrapped entirely, passives need reigning in, etc.....

If the devs wish me to fight with an old knife and fork that have been rusting in the Rimmen sewer for an era, fine. I'll hang around the towns and challenge a Jerboa on occasion to a jumping contest when my crafting regime creates an uncontrollable arrogance.

Better a veteran overland zone and an insane difficulty on the dungeons than to rob everyone of the already paltry vertical progression on offer. This route of handicapping players instead of creating content that challenges the "power creep" is the simplest, least innovative solution that only frustrates most that have been supportive of this game for a long time.

What this guy said... combat was more or less fine for the vast majority of players even before the dot meta. The answer isnt nerfs, radical overhauls, or what seems to be a relentless focus on pvp (to the detriment of pve, which most of the player base play).

The answer (as I have argued variously elsewhere) is some form of "veteran" zones and harder difficulty settings for dungeons/trials etc, this gives end gamers and overland content the difficulty many crave without ruining the hard work of casual and average gamers.

Zos must realise, constantly changing things is seriously damaging the game.

starkerealm

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

1) I dont gold everything but i have 9 toons. Just golding PVE and PvP weapons for them is a respectable Bill.

I have 25. (31 if we include the six I don't actively play on PCEU.) Yet, you don't see me crying about the cost to keep them up to date.

Which of course skims over the point where you're either not keeping all 9 up to date at all times, or you're being rather foolish about updating characters you're not actively playing.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

2) Traits will change if sustain goes down as much as promised in PTS.

Traits will change if you decide you need to change them. Really, trait changing should always be a last resort. If you want to blow crystals, that's your business. It is, however, a mistake in most cases.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

3)Learning a rotation costs gold if you use the correct Pots abd the correct venoms. If not, you can find yoursef being unable to sustain. Droped pots cost time farming them.
And time parsing cost gold because you don´t earn anything beating a dummy. Lucrum cessans.

Dropped pots are cheap on the guild trader market. Figure that a full stack will set you back less than 1k gold. Way less than 1k.

Second, if you're having sustain issues with your build, chances are, your build will have sustain issues. If you don't have the money to chain potions when you're practicing a rotation, you certainly don't have the money to actually run that rotation in real content.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

4)Is absurd to deny the existence of a BIS in ESO.

No. To believe that there is such a thing as "best in slot," demonstrates an incredibly narrow view of the game as a whole, and a complete failure to understand the stated goals in the design.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

The nerfings just change to another BIS. And being obliged to change too often is a legitimate complaint. Because the nerfings not only make the BIS almots useless (Sunderflame, sunderflame, where are you now...) The massive nerfs often punish other sets, tht´s not new.

Case in point, Sunderflame was never "Best in Slot." It was an autoinclude for group composition along side Night Mother's Gaze, because they provided unique resistance debuffs. But the set itself was always somewhat lackluster. A member of the team would, "take the hit," slotting Sunder and NMG to help group DPS at the cost of their own. This is so far from "BiS" that I question if you're really familiar with the meaning of the term.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

5)To call "idiots"some guild members becuse they insist in the exigence of a minimum DPS to affront some content is very bold for your part.

No, I'm calling them idiots because they're idiots. If they legitimately paid attention to the game, those thresholds would be low enough that you wouldn't have much difficulty getting new players into the introductory content, while they learned the ropes.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

The limit must be fixed in some point, and everyone knows that mashing buttons skill is just a part of the equation. But is a starting point. This can easily be checked. That´s all. Don´t supose you will stay in a guild if you fail every mechanic, die in every boss, and most important, don´t be someone that the other members want in their team. Specially if they have discord. But check all this points require time. A Dps test is not the only condition, just the first one.

I really don't give a flying **** how good your parse is if you can't understand the mechanics. First trips in can be rough, I understand that. Progression groups operate for a reason. That said, if your guild is whining about people not being able to meet DPS thresholds, they are idiots.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

What I call silly is to put the admision minimum too high. That´s another problem.

And that's exactly what we're seeing here. People crying about how their DPS on the trial dummy went from 70k down to 50k. You know what? That doesn't matter at all. They are still so far above any meaningful threshold that the list of content they'd find challenging is vanishingly small.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

6) "Adapt" is in this case an eupehmism for "Be acritic"

No, it's not. I said it, and I know damn well what I meant. In this case, "adapt," means, "adapt." "Adapt" does not mean running around crying about every little thing.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

Clever people just adapt to things that can´t be changed. The rules here are not the rules of life, are artificial rules. And this changes have no other strarting point than the FAIL to the Dev team to balance PVP and PVE, classes and skills.

Funny thing about this, the members of the dev team you're crying about are actually much better players than you are.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

So they hae to "Adapt", not me.

In point of fact, no, they do not. As evidenced by, oh, wait for it... this.

You cried about how DoTs were overpowered and melting your face off. You begged for a nerf. You wanted them to adapt instead of trying to find a work around... congrats, you got what you wanted. Now you're crying because you only wanted to nerf the people who were killing you, you didn't want to be subject to those nerfs even while you were using the exact same tactics yourself.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

They have to create a harder content to correct the mistake.

In point of fact, they do not. Ironically, a lot of players feel that the newer endgame content is far too difficult for them to approach. So, saying, "just make things harder," when the existing content already turns people off isn't an answer. Power creep like that simply invalidates old content. So, no, bringing players down is a much better answer.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

It´s their fault, not ours, they have to put the effort, the time and the money because it´s tehir responsability, not mine.

You made your builds. You are responsible for those. You knew that everything in an MMO is subject to change. You knew that ZOS nerfs stuff that's overperforming. And you still chased the idea of "BiS" like it was the holy grail. And now, three months later, the stuff that was a little too strong is getting toned down. What a shock. If only there were years of history of ZOS bringing down overperforming sets to cue you in that maybe looking for the most broken stuff of the moment might not be the best idea.

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

"Adapt" here
is the opposite
to be aware
of your rights
as customer.

You knew, going in, that this was an MMO. You knew MMOs would change content over time. You knew that the experience you get today will not be the same as the experience you get tomorrow.

Guess what? You still have access to the property you paid for. In fact, you're getting more stuff added in (even if you're not a subscriber), but you're fixated on something that was adjusted down, and crying about that, instead of paying attention to the larger changes in the ecosystem.

I've changed my main's gear, twice in the last three and a half years. And, the second time it was only to bring back the weapon I'd been using on them before that. My Sorc Tank's been wearing the same gear since Thieves Guild dropped. (Mostly, I think some of the jewelry's been replaced.)

If money is a consideration, find gear you're confidant will last. (Obviously Sunderflame/NMG caught a lot of people off guard.)

As a customer, you should have known what you were getting into. In this case, responsibility starts within.

AbysmalGhul

Stebarnz wrote: »

When content becomes face roll they have to do something!

When there are many threads about buffing content difficulty, they have to do something!

When teams clear VMOL HM in 14 mins they have to do something!

When people post 141k parses they have to do something!

Im not saying they have got it right but at least they are trying something!

Im the first to bash on zos when they F up but this dot meta didn't work so they are acting, so lets see what the final live release is before losing minds. Bear in mind this game has to be balanced around pvp as that's the only true test!
pve balance is easy.

You really can't face roll most content out of the box. You can be efficient at completing content, but that comes with practice and not by just slapping on gear, adjusting CP etc etc and immediately getting the complete. I've never seen anyone post a 141k solo dps parse. You can't judge dps on that new dps dummy. Those are bloated numbers that you and anyone in the game will never accomplish in actual content ever. I don't see how people completing content like Vmol HM in 14 minutes is ruining anyone's fun in the game.... I really don't. End game content is one aspect of ESO, like housing, PVP, fashion, fishing and exploring.

Balancing PVE would be easy if they separated it from PVP. Honestly, there will never be balance in PVP because PVP is made up of actual human players. One person's idea and opinion of balance is different from another's.

TirantLoBlanch

Grandma wrote: »

i don't know what roles you guys do where you need to farm gold mats every patch. i've been in master architect/MS since last winter on my magdps, and switched to pfgd out of MA and have been sticking with that since elsweyr. And that's not changing any time soon.

literally all these changes do is change skills and rotations. which sucks and is a huge dps loss, but come on. what kind of builds are you making where you need to switch both of your sets every patch?

1) Not all are magblades. The meta has changed a lot for some other classes, inlcuding the need to farm content very time consuming and very reliant in RNG. The new meta now demands 2 sets minimum for PVE, one for trash mobs, other single target.

2) you know perfectly whath kind of builds we are making. Just visit https://alcasthq.com/ If you watch the changes done in the last patches, and the introducing of new varietys (Bow/Bow, by example) you can figure how time and ressources consuming can be update 9 toons.

Mettaricana

Morimizo wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Besides if the combat stayed exactly the same for the last 5 years everyone would've quit playing because of how stale it's been.

I foolishly expected that the combat would get more interesting due to their adding additional morphs to skills, adding new weapon styles, etc.; not just mix, match, dice, and hash the existing ones.

I believe it is quite clear that the original, very talented designers of this game must be gone, with only the maintenance team left. And like any group of bored humans, they amuse themselves by damaging their immediate environment. It's like an elongated All-State 'Mayhem' commercial.

Where's my zenistate insurance that protects my characters from zenimax neck breaker changes..

Hallothiel

@starkerealm

Just have to say am loving your logical & detailed responses to all the complaining. Thank you!

heaven13

Grandma wrote: »

i don't know what roles you guys do where you need to farm gold mats every patch. i've been in master architect/MS since last winter on my magdps, and switched to pfgd out of MA and have been sticking with that since elsweyr. And that's not changing any time soon.

literally all these changes do is change skills and rotations. which sucks and is a huge dps loss, but come on. what kind of builds are you making where you need to switch both of your sets every patch?

Magicka characters were luckier this patch. A lot of meta stamina builds revolved around dual wield vMA on front bar, Master's Bow on back, and then trial gear for both the other 5pc sets, which means farming head and shoulders...pieces everyone has been trashing for years. Sure, you don't have to run meta but the ones that had meta last patch and wanted to keep up to date had to farm vSS and CR, plus vMA if they didn't have both a dagger and axe laying around.

SirAxen

I haven't changed really anything at all on any of my character for nearly a year now and I still do all endgame content with zero issues. *shrug*