Blackrose DW/ Resto

Mayrael

Kadoin wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

The DW is fine fore sure. The resto staff got an indirect buff from the healing ward changes, only aspect I can think about that worth reviewing.

So if it's a stam weapon giving a ridiculous bonus, its fine, but if its a mag one its not? Yeah, I cannot see the bias here...

You can't make these forums up!

You obviously did not understand my comment and jumped to a false conclusion.

When Blackrose weapons were designed and and balanced, healing word behaved differently. The healing from the skill could not benefit from the buff of the Blackrose resto staff because the buff is for 3 sec and you used to get the heal after 6 sec.
Last patch it was changed so healing ward starts to heal from the moment its being cast and therefore benefits from its own buff. This double dip scenario was part of the original design and that's why I said it is the only thing that could be reviewed(didn't say you have to nerf it) The DW behaves exactly the same compared to when the weapon set was introduced, if anything it has been nerfed due to cost increase of blade cloak.

And BTW, I play magicka Warden and I don't have access to either weapons. So ya....

Both of these weapons have been complained about since they were introduced. And in face, healing ward lost its initial heal it had before BRP resto was introduced to "balance" the weapon.

Also, if you don't use or have never used/experienced either weapon in any form, how exactly can you call for a buff or nerf of either? Somehow I have to hit the doubt button that you don't have either.

BRP weapons and the changes to Steadfast Ward and the changes to evasion were introduced in the same patch( murkmire patch). So you can be 100% that BRP was designed and balanced around to work with a version of Steadfast Ward that cannot synerise with itself. Now it can synerise with itself. That's the difference. This aspect could be reviewed(and perhaps it had been).


Regarding your second question, You are in the PTS forum, so with that in mind, I'll give you the chance to figure it out.

And yet, even then it was and still is the go-to weapon, and still will be in the future as long as it remains as-is. That's because it doesn't need to "synergize with itself" when it affects every heal in the game. No one is going to only slot healing ward as their only heal, if they do and use this weapon, then they're essentially proving how OP it is in the first place because the weapon then helps them also save slots on other heals.

Both that weapon and BRP DW achieve the same exact effect through different means in reality: extreme survivability on-demand that is unobtainable anywhere else with no real drawback, esp. since the skills themselves are getting nerfed to compensate for the set effects resulting in a nerf to anyone not using it vs. those that are.

They both also allow you to build for more damage and sustain when compared to a build that isn't using them or uses the alternative sources of both of those buffs, again, negating the balance through cost adjustments.

It's not balanced in its current state, and ZOS is helping them become even more unbalanced by touching the skills instead of the sets. Too bad the balance team doesn't see it that way, and apparently players want to defend these weapons and get nerfed more.

Very good post!

BohnT2

Lets hope the devs nerf both of them during this Pts cycle properly, anyone who played on pts knows how easy it is to stalemate fights even without them.
When using them it's impossible to die in a 1v1 unless you die in real life due to dotage because the fights will never end

Qbiken

Can't stress how much of an adjustment both of these weapons need. It carries bad players and gives buffs that should only be acquired through ultimates in my opinion.

hakan

i just dropped these and wanted to try it out but cant see the benefits really. losing another set bonus to bar swap, get a three second bonus and swap back to front bar and its almost gone.

and there is also master axes and i think you would run rend slashes on your bar, so i dont know what is better.

Galarthor

BohnT2 wrote: »

We're heading directly into another tank meta and those two sets play a big part by making it possible to stall fights vs 1-2 competent enemies as long as you want

Didn't notice we have left the first one yet

Witar

Blackrose duals are indeed overperforming. Pirate skeleton was nerfed cause of high uptime of major protection. And you can keep it close to 80-100% with brp duals.

Nordic__Knights

If there so OP why dont all you just go get you an set and run them or is it you CANT and want others achievements hurt due to the lack of you being good

Joy_Division

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Minor buffs/debuffs should be 8%. Major buffs/debuffs 15%. Change my mind.

Some (de)buffs need a greater percentage to have an impact worth casting. 1% damage and damage reduction is more valuable than say a 1% speed adjustment.

Iskiab

I think they’re okay. I mean it’s major protection really that’s the issue, major vitality is good but not great.

Some people don’t like defense and will complain until everyone’s running around naked with 2Hers. The game is already too bursty.

For those who will inevitably say the game is not too bursty and it’s fine, no one would use these weapons if burst wasn’t already an issue. It’s the high burst that’s making heavy armour and defensive options more attractive, if people wanted a high burst game they wouldn’t use them. Right now you don’t need to spec into much offense at all to kill people in pvp.

Olupajmibanan

Qbiken wrote: »

Can't stress how much of an adjustment both of these weapons need. It carries bad players and gives buffs that should only be acquired through ultimates in my opinion.

Major Protection acquired trough ultimates is how it should be. But it's clearly not how Zenimax sees it. They took Major Protection from Light's Champion and didn't give it to Life Giver. We all told them, "Dear Zos, if you so stubbornly want one morph ofensive and morph defensive, than make Light's Champion give Major Force and Life Giver give Major Protection and remove all the bullcrap it currently has". But as it seems, Major Protection on non-class ultimates is a no go in ZoS's eyes. Praise BRP dual wield than, it's not overpowered, but we don't have other available choices on some classes and that makes us wear it.

BohnT2

Iskiab wrote: »

I think they’re okay. I mean it’s major protection really that’s the issue, major vitality is good but not great.

Some people don’t like defense and will complain until everyone’s running around naked with 2Hers. The game is already too bursty.

For those who will inevitably say the game is not too bursty and it’s fine, no one would use these weapons if burst wasn’t already an issue. It’s the high burst that’s making heavy armour and defensive options more attractive, if people wanted a high burst game they wouldn’t use them. Right now you don’t need to spec into much offense at all to kill people in pvp.

I strongly disagree with this post for multiple reasons.
First of all the power level of the sets is so high that they offer so much mitigation/healing that you won't die in a 1v1 ever, especially not in the new patch. Not dying in a 1v1 vs a very good player even if the user is only average is too strong and way too much for anything in the game because the buffs are both available on demand.

Secondly the buffs they provide begin to overshadow anything else even more when you take into account that the sets can both be back barred and open up so many build options without losing anything on your front bar.
My stamplar as an example here: I'm running bloodspawn, fury and Automaton in medium which results in me having between 18-24k resistances depending whether BS is up or not, without using brp DW the build would explode in seconds vs good players or when I'm outnumbered.
However i use brp DW on my back bar and it lets me face tank randoms while giving me the option to kite and survive ult drops of 3 very good players for 10 minutes.
The build didn't lose anything, i just gained huge survivability and any build utilising DW and not using brp DW are worse than ones doing so.

Next example are my magnb, magdk, magwarden and magnecro.
I'm using bro resto on all of them and all of them are able to run glass canon builds while still being able to suggest just as good or even better than builds which don't utilize it.
Best example is my magdk which is in Skoria, Ele Succ and BSW and ofc blackrose resto.
The build has 17k buffed resistances which is nothing yet it's so easy to survive on it because coag is critting for 20k on me, embers is still healing me for 12k on pts and powerlash heal gets flat out mental.

The sets have to be nerfed as they are currently opening up too many builds with no other defensive investment which are more tanky and offer way more damage than their competitors not using them

Nordic__Knights

BohnT2 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think they’re okay. I mean it’s major protection really that’s the issue, major vitality is good but not great.

Some people don’t like defense and will complain until everyone’s running around naked with 2Hers. The game is already too bursty.

For those who will inevitably say the game is not too bursty and it’s fine, no one would use these weapons if burst wasn’t already an issue. It’s the high burst that’s making heavy armour and defensive options more attractive, if people wanted a high burst game they wouldn’t use them. Right now you don’t need to spec into much offense at all to kill people in pvp.

I strongly disagree with this post for multiple reasons.
First of all the power level of the sets is so high that they offer so much mitigation/healing that you won't die in a 1v1 ever, especially not in the new patch. Not dying in a 1v1 vs a very good player even if the user is only average is too strong and way too much for anything in the game because the buffs are both available on demand.

Secondly the buffs they provide begin to overshadow anything else even more when you take into account that the sets can both be back barred and open up so many build options without losing anything on your front bar.
My stamplar as an example here: I'm running bloodspawn, fury and Automaton in medium which results in me having between 18-24k resistances depending whether BS is up or not, without using brp DW the build would explode in seconds vs good players or when I'm outnumbered.
However i use brp DW on my back bar and it lets me face tank randoms while giving me the option to kite and survive ult drops of 3 very good players for 10 minutes.
The build didn't lose anything, i just gained huge survivability and any build utilising DW and not using brp DW are worse than ones doing so.

Next example are my magnb, magdk, magwarden and magnecro.
I'm using bro resto on all of them and all of them are able to run glass canon builds while still being able to suggest just as good or even better than builds which don't utilize it.
Best example is my magdk which is in Skoria, Ele Succ and BSW and ofc blackrose resto.
The build has 17k buffed resistances which is nothing yet it's so easy to survive on it because coag is critting for 20k on me, embers is still healing me for 12k on pts and powerlash heal gets flat out mental.

The sets have to be nerfed as they are currently opening up too many builds with no other defensive investment which are more tanky and offer way more damage than their competitors not using them

Remember what you ask for in 3 months lol dont be 1st to cry once your BRP weapons get *** on like everything else in the game that players don't want to L2P against and now don't have to because NO ONE USES anymore due to the NERFHUMMER THAT ZOS used on them

BohnT2

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think they’re okay. I mean it’s major protection really that’s the issue, major vitality is good but not great.

Some people don’t like defense and will complain until everyone’s running around naked with 2Hers. The game is already too bursty.

For those who will inevitably say the game is not too bursty and it’s fine, no one would use these weapons if burst wasn’t already an issue. It’s the high burst that’s making heavy armour and defensive options more attractive, if people wanted a high burst game they wouldn’t use them. Right now you don’t need to spec into much offense at all to kill people in pvp.

I strongly disagree with this post for multiple reasons.
First of all the power level of the sets is so high that they offer so much mitigation/healing that you won't die in a 1v1 ever, especially not in the new patch. Not dying in a 1v1 vs a very good player even if the user is only average is too strong and way too much for anything in the game because the buffs are both available on demand.

Secondly the buffs they provide begin to overshadow anything else even more when you take into account that the sets can both be back barred and open up so many build options without losing anything on your front bar.
My stamplar as an example here: I'm running bloodspawn, fury and Automaton in medium which results in me having between 18-24k resistances depending whether BS is up or not, without using brp DW the build would explode in seconds vs good players or when I'm outnumbered.
However i use brp DW on my back bar and it lets me face tank randoms while giving me the option to kite and survive ult drops of 3 very good players for 10 minutes.
The build didn't lose anything, i just gained huge survivability and any build utilising DW and not using brp DW are worse than ones doing so.

Next example are my magnb, magdk, magwarden and magnecro.
I'm using bro resto on all of them and all of them are able to run glass canon builds while still being able to suggest just as good or even better than builds which don't utilize it.
Best example is my magdk which is in Skoria, Ele Succ and BSW and ofc blackrose resto.
The build has 17k buffed resistances which is nothing yet it's so easy to survive on it because coag is critting for 20k on me, embers is still healing me for 12k on pts and powerlash heal gets flat out mental.

The sets have to be nerfed as they are currently opening up too many builds with no other defensive investment which are more tanky and offer way more damage than their competitors not using them

Remember what you ask for in 3 months lol dont be 1st to cry once your BRP weapons get *** on like everything else in the game that players don't want to L2P against and now don't have to because NO ONE USES anymore due to the NERFHUMMER THAT ZOS used on them

I would probably laugh my ass off at people who were defending them for years

Nordic__Knights

BohnT2 wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I think they’re okay. I mean it’s major protection really that’s the issue, major vitality is good but not great.

Some people don’t like defense and will complain until everyone’s running around naked with 2Hers. The game is already too bursty.

For those who will inevitably say the game is not too bursty and it’s fine, no one would use these weapons if burst wasn’t already an issue. It’s the high burst that’s making heavy armour and defensive options more attractive, if people wanted a high burst game they wouldn’t use them. Right now you don’t need to spec into much offense at all to kill people in pvp.

I strongly disagree with this post for multiple reasons.
First of all the power level of the sets is so high that they offer so much mitigation/healing that you won't die in a 1v1 ever, especially not in the new patch. Not dying in a 1v1 vs a very good player even if the user is only average is too strong and way too much for anything in the game because the buffs are both available on demand.

Secondly the buffs they provide begin to overshadow anything else even more when you take into account that the sets can both be back barred and open up so many build options without losing anything on your front bar.
My stamplar as an example here: I'm running bloodspawn, fury and Automaton in medium which results in me having between 18-24k resistances depending whether BS is up or not, without using brp DW the build would explode in seconds vs good players or when I'm outnumbered.
However i use brp DW on my back bar and it lets me face tank randoms while giving me the option to kite and survive ult drops of 3 very good players for 10 minutes.
The build didn't lose anything, i just gained huge survivability and any build utilising DW and not using brp DW are worse than ones doing so.

Next example are my magnb, magdk, magwarden and magnecro.
I'm using bro resto on all of them and all of them are able to run glass canon builds while still being able to suggest just as good or even better than builds which don't utilize it.
Best example is my magdk which is in Skoria, Ele Succ and BSW and ofc blackrose resto.
The build has 17k buffed resistances which is nothing yet it's so easy to survive on it because coag is critting for 20k on me, embers is still healing me for 12k on pts and powerlash heal gets flat out mental.

The sets have to be nerfed as they are currently opening up too many builds with no other defensive investment which are more tanky and offer way more damage than their competitors not using them

Remember what you ask for in 3 months lol dont be 1st to cry once your BRP weapons get *** on like everything else in the game that players don't want to L2P against and now don't have to because NO ONE USES anymore due to the NERFHUMMER THAT ZOS used on them

I would probably laugh my ass off at people who were defending them for years

personal im not for or against them as EVERYONE has same chances to get them there achievements for doing something and i dont like my achievements being touched. SO again if there so OP everyone crying for NERFS should just go farm themselves an set and really stop asking for everything to be *** because sooner or later we wont have anything nice to use

BTW i have 2h and destruction fire and lighting of the set

Luckylancer

BRP resto give less tooltip shield than BoL tooltip heal at %1 hp. BoL get %30 bonus on %1 hp allies too.

If they gonna nerf any of these sets, they will worth as much as an decon material. Look at sloads, anguish and pirateskeleton.

BohnT2

Luckylancer wrote: »

BRP resto give less tooltip shield than BoL tooltip heal at %1 hp. BoL get %30 bonus on %1 hp allies too.

If they gonna nerf any of these sets, they will worth as much as an decon material. Look at sloads, anguish and pirateskeleton.

I have no idea what you are trying to express in your first paragraph as the brp resto doesn't affect the shield size.

What i can say if you think that pre nerf anguish, sloads or pirate skeleton were fine you shouldn't be talking about balance ever again as those things were absolutely broken and overperforming

BohnT2

So the devs said they think the 50% uptime on major protection from steadfast warrior was too strong but a potential 100% uptime isn't?

Qbiken

Steadfast Hero: Increased the cooldown of this set to 20 seconds, up from 10 seconds, to reduce some of the staggering power that this set enables with Major Protection

.

Is this a joke? Steadfast is too strong but vBRP dual wield is perfectly fine?

What a joke......

iCaliban

Qbiken wrote: »

Steadfast Hero: Increased the cooldown of this set to 20 seconds, up from 10 seconds, to reduce some of the staggering power that this set enables with Major Protection

.

Is this a joke? Steadfast is too strong but vBRP dual wield is perfectly fine?

What a joke......

Both Black rose weapons are fine. Damage is way too high in no CP without a healer and players need tools to survive.