IS ESO BECOMING P2W/P2P

Nordic__Knights

1st we got eso+
2nd skyshards
3rd skill lines
4th new pet giving bag space to all characters

Jimmy_The_Fixer

No

There’s no option to buy power in ESO, which is the hallmark of p2w. You only have the option to bypass grinds that you’ve already competed on a previous character. This isn’t Battlefront 2, these really are examples of convenience purchases, this is F2P done right.

Edit: B2P

icefyer_ESO

Wait, what pet increases bag space?

zyk

This question always turns into a deadhorse back and forth between people who see P2W as a very specific set of conditions and people who see it contextual and nuanced.

It's complicated by the fact that ESO doesn't really have an endgame per se.

We should ignore the question of P2W and instead ask if we are comfortable with the role that real money plays the game.

Another question we should ask is whether ZOS monetizing items that should be QOL in a game that has yearly paid expansions and a monthly sub in addition to a robust cash shop. Are players letting ZOS get away with overt greed?

IMO, there is basically indirect full RMT in the game now via -> cash -> crowns -> gold. Gold is extremely useful, for now, because it can be used to purchase any tradable items and to even pay for raid carries.

A player without spending discipline now has huge advantages including potentially unlimited gold and the option to bypass a huge number of time sinks. Such a player can level a new character to 50 faster, equip it with almost any set upgraded to full yellow, with all skyshards and a fully upgraded mount FAR faster without participating in the player economy.

Forget the P2W question. Regardless of our individual definitions, I think most of us can agree RMT is getting out of hand.

Jayroo

No

Have you played a p2w game before?
You can literally pay 10,000$ to be the strongest character in the entire game

Nordic__Knights

Yes

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

Wait, what pet increases bag space?

The new cs 🐖 5 slots across youe account

ManwithBeard9

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

Wait, what pet increases bag space?

The new cs 🐖 5 slots across youe account

Which one is that?

Nordic__Knights

Yes

Jayroo wrote: »

Have you played a p2w game before?
You can literally pay 10,000$ to be the strongest character in the entire game

Why you can literally do that before level 50 or at level 3 if you want tho ya you become normal again at 50 but for the full time your below 50 your paid for skills ,skyshards, give you power non paying players have

Zulera301

No

The thing with the skyshards and skill lines that a lot of people are forgetting is that you can't just crack open a new game and shall out the dough. They were designed with alts in mind, and thus before you can actually buty them you have to have done the content at least once.
From my understanding their logic is to offer a timesaver on people not wanting to do it a 2nd/3rd/18th time. So sure you can pay to "win", but only after you've earned the content the regular way first.

Most of the rest of the crown store stuff is either cosmetic (mounts, costumes/outfits, houses), or useless consumables that are 1-upped by craftables in the game *glances at food/drinks/potions/poisons*. Sure an XP scroll might help you get to 160 or 810 sooner than without one (though really, just use the 500 million scrolls you get from daily logins), but the CP810 that grinded his way to the top is still going to get his face kicked in by the CP250 that actually learned to play the game.

so... while it has P2W elements, a little bit of analysis can help us reach the conclusion that these are very minimal at best.

DarkPicture

Yes

Jayroo wrote: »

Have you played a p2w game before?
You can literally pay 10,000$ to be the strongest character in the entire game

Yes and those game are f2p so they need get from somewhere money, eso is b2p

Nordic__Knights

Yes

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493745/bristleneck-war-boar-waitasecond-what#latest

DarkPicture

Yes

Its a beginning of p2w, step by step adding new "things" like inventory now, next speed and mount speed, 5 spell/weapon dmg and etc...

People who voted "no" i guess never played before games which werent p2w at the beginning
Zenimax are checking line which they may cross

Nordic__Knights

Yes

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

Wait, what pet increases bag space?

The new cs 🐖 5 slots across youe account

Which one is that?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493745/bristleneck-war-boar-waitasecond-what#latest

zyk

Zulera301 wrote: »

so... while it has P2W elements, a little bit of analysis can help us reach the conclusion that these are very minimal at best.

Potentially unlimited gold is minimal? An instantly upgraded mount vs 6 months is minimal? Only having to collect skyshards once is minimal?

Account wide Skyshards, mount upgrades and bag space should be QOL at this point.

RMT ruined trading for me. I enjoy trading games for the gameplay, but it bothers me the best path to wealth in ESO is to work more in rl. Actual traders who want to earn their in-game wealth in-game are second-class citizens.

If you go back to the original Crown Store discussions in 2015, the present is the future we dreaded resulting from the slippery slope described then.

Nordic__Knights

Yes

icefyer_ESO wrote: »

Wait, what pet increases bag space?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493745/bristleneck-war-boar-waitasecond-what#latest

Czekoludek

Yes

For those who vote "No"... In Fallout 76 they also started with small things like our skill lines or pet which gives you 5 more slots. Ppl have enough of this bs but it started with small things. If this pet will be unobtainable by just playing the game then yes, it is a sign of ESO BECOMING p2w

Nordic__Knights

Yes

Czekoludek wrote: »

For those who vote "No"... In Fallout 76 they also started with small things like our skill lines or pet which gives you 5 more slots. Ppl have enough of this bs but it started with small things. If this pet will be unobtainable by just playing the game then yes, it is a sign of ESO BECOMING p2w

Ty for getting the BECOMING part of the ? 😉

Alienoutlaw

No

whilst i dont agree with some of the things they have placed in the crown store it is not P2W that would involve a new account never having played before being able to purchase skill lines and skill points and thus having a huge head start, this is NOT the case, ESO+ is OPTIONAL so not required but having it affords you perks as a reward for supporting the game, again not P2W apart from the craft bag and dye stations everything else is available to ALL players ESO+ could of been mandatory from the start and be inline with other MMO'S but ZOS chose not to do that. i for one have many Alts and find it useful to know i dont have to grind out mages guild or psijic order everytime, and if i really need skill points skyshards are not that difficult to farm, nothing on offer in crown store is locked behind a pay wall anyone can get them for free in game

Alienoutlaw

No

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

Have you played a p2w game before?
You can literally pay 10,000$ to be the strongest character in the entire game

Why you can literally do that before level 50 or at level 3 if you want tho ya you become normal again at 50 but for the full time your below 50 your paid for skills ,skyshards, give you power non paying players have

dont CP do that already? you cant buy a skill line you have never maxed out once before, you cant by skyshards you have not found and to get them you have to have cleared that zone, so paying to save time not paying to win

Nordic__Knights

Yes

[/quo

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

whilst i dont agree with some of the things they have placed in the crown store it is not P2W that would involve a new account never having played before being able to purchase skill lines and skill points and thus having a huge head start, this is NOT the case, ESO+ is OPTIONAL so not required but having it affords you perks as a reward for supporting the game, again not P2W apart from the craft bag and dye stations everything else is available to ALL players ESO+ could of been mandatory from the start and be inline with other MMO'S but ZOS chose not to do that. i for one have many Alts and find it useful to know i dont have to grind out mages guild or psijic order everytime, and if i really need skill points skyshards are not that difficult to farm, nothing on offer in crown store is locked behind a pay wall anyone can get them for free in game

So ok keep to that next patch when you can pay to max out a toon from 1 to 50 with an 🎟

Because that will be next because everyone white knights the bs eso is doing

Jayroo

No

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

Have you played a p2w game before?
You can literally pay 10,000$ to be the strongest character in the entire game

Why you can literally do that before level 50 or at level 3 if you want tho ya you become normal again at 50 but for the full time your below 50 your paid for skills ,skyshards, give you power non paying players have

You can only buy skill lines you have already maxed to 50.
P2W is defined as-- special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free

The DLC in this game can be categorized as "p2w" because of the better equip you can get from trials... but that's not even the argument you're making. If you have to have successfully complete the part you are purchasing its hardly p2w because any skill line can be easily maxed out in 1-2 days of grinding perhaps skyshards take a bit longer, but compare that to games where you can play for years and not have the equipment people purchase to make good in a second.

In WoW, the newest expansion literally comes with a high level character, and that's a SUBSCRIPTION based game

Nordic__Knights

Yes

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

Have you played a p2w game before?
You can literally pay 10,000$ to be the strongest character in the entire game

Why you can literally do that before level 50 or at level 3 if you want tho ya you become normal again at 50 but for the full time your below 50 your paid for skills ,skyshards, give you power non paying players have

dont CP do that already? you cant buy a skill line you have never maxed out once before, you cant by skyshards you have not found and to get them you have to have cleared that zone, so paying to save time not paying to win

Yep and the # of players who had got emp before has gone up 3% since below 50 can max skills pay to win by 3% there

Nordic__Knights

Yes

Jayroo wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

Have you played a p2w game before?
You can literally pay 10,000$ to be the strongest character in the entire game

Why you can literally do that before level 50 or at level 3 if you want tho ya you become normal again at 50 but for the full time your below 50 your paid for skills ,skyshards, give you power non paying players have

You can only buy skill lines you have already maxed to 50.
P2W is defined as-- special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free

The DLC in this game can be categorized as "p2w" because of the better equip you can get from trials... but that's not even the argument you're making. If you have to have successfully complete the part you are purchasing its hardly p2w because any skill line can be easily maxed out in 1-2 days of grinding perhaps skyshards take a bit longer, but compare that to games where you can play for years and not have the equipment people purchase to make good in a second.

In WoW, the newest expansion literally comes with a high level character, and that's a SUBSCRIPTION based game

Hence the reason I said becoming you know becoming means starting to do something skyshards skill lines now inventory space due to a pet I'm not talkin about the subscription too much because yeah it should have been added as something you had to have full-time regardless to play a game I get that I agree with that and then given something for attaining that I agree with that taking just because you played one character theres 17 others that you can instant build at level three and be the toughest motherfuker in the game

Jayroo

No

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

Have you played a p2w game before?
You can literally pay 10,000$ to be the strongest character in the entire game

Why you can literally do that before level 50 or at level 3 if you want tho ya you become normal again at 50 but for the full time your below 50 your paid for skills ,skyshards, give you power non paying players have

You can only buy skill lines you have already maxed to 50.
P2W is defined as-- special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free

The DLC in this game can be categorized as "p2w" because of the better equip you can get from trials... but that's not even the argument you're making. If you have to have successfully complete the part you are purchasing its hardly p2w because any skill line can be easily maxed out in 1-2 days of grinding perhaps skyshards take a bit longer, but compare that to games where you can play for years and not have the equipment people purchase to make good in a second.

In WoW, the newest expansion literally comes with a high level character, and that's a SUBSCRIPTION based game

Hence the reason I said becoming you know becoming means starting to do something skyshards skill lines now inventory space due to a pet I'm not talkin about the subscription too much because yeah it should have been added as something you had to have full-time regardless to play a game I get that I agree with that and then given something for attaining that I agree with that taking just because you played one character theres 17 others that you can instant build at level three and be the toughest motherfuker in the game

Guild skill lines don't exactly make you the toughest, also you get plenty of skill points getting to 50 to make a solid build through natural gameplay.

I get what you're saying, but I'll need a bit more than minor shortcuts that don't take long to achieve to convince me this game is becoming p2w. Their dev team is relatively transparent, and as of now theres nothing signaling (to me) a true p2w element is coming. Other than a pet that gives a bit of extra bag space. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but eso+ gives double the bank space AND an infinite craft bag along with a portable bank/merchant in the crown store

Nordic__Knights

Yes

Jayroo wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Jayroo wrote: »

Have you played a p2w game before?
You can literally pay 10,000$ to be the strongest character in the entire game

Why you can literally do that before level 50 or at level 3 if you want tho ya you become normal again at 50 but for the full time your below 50 your paid for skills ,skyshards, give you power non paying players have

You can only buy skill lines you have already maxed to 50.
P2W is defined as-- special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free

The DLC in this game can be categorized as "p2w" because of the better equip you can get from trials... but that's not even the argument you're making. If you have to have successfully complete the part you are purchasing its hardly p2w because any skill line can be easily maxed out in 1-2 days of grinding perhaps skyshards take a bit longer, but compare that to games where you can play for years and not have the equipment people purchase to make good in a second.

In WoW, the newest expansion literally comes with a high level character, and that's a SUBSCRIPTION based game

Hence the reason I said becoming you know becoming means starting to do something skyshards skill lines now inventory space due to a pet I'm not talkin about the subscription too much because yeah it should have been added as something you had to have full-time regardless to play a game I get that I agree with that and then given something for attaining that I agree with that taking just because you played one character theres 17 others that you can instant build at level three and be the toughest motherfuker in the game

Guild skill lines don't exactly make you the toughest, also you get plenty of skill points getting to 50 to make a solid build through natural gameplay.

I get what you're saying, but I'll need a bit more than minor shortcuts that don't take long to achieve to convince me this game is becoming p2w. Their dev team is relatively transparent, and as of now theres nothing signaling (to me) a true p2w element is coming. Other than a pet that gives a bit of extra bag space. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but eso+ gives double the bank space AND an infinite craft bag along with a portable bank/merchant in the crown store

And the longer you guys keep on telling yourself that this is for convenience the more they'll continue to cross the line into the point where you going to be able to pay to be Max CP fully loaded out ready to go but you keep calling it convenience

Alienoutlaw

No

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

[/quo

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

whilst i dont agree with some of the things they have placed in the crown store it is not P2W that would involve a new account never having played before being able to purchase skill lines and skill points and thus having a huge head start, this is NOT the case, ESO+ is OPTIONAL so not required but having it affords you perks as a reward for supporting the game, again not P2W apart from the craft bag and dye stations everything else is available to ALL players ESO+ could of been mandatory from the start and be inline with other MMO'S but ZOS chose not to do that. i for one have many Alts and find it useful to know i dont have to grind out mages guild or psijic order everytime, and if i really need skill points skyshards are not that difficult to farm, nothing on offer in crown store is locked behind a pay wall anyone can get them for free in game

So ok keep to that next patch when you can pay to max out a toon from 1 to 50 with an 🎟

Because that will be next because everyone white knights the bs eso is doing

no offense but that is nothing more than a guess so not a valid argument.

MLGProPlayer

No

The pet is the only remotely "P2W" thing there. And we need more info before we take out the pitch forks.

karthrag_inak

the OP's reasons are absurd, but i do think that without summerset (specifically cloudrest trial sets) you really can't compete in top-tier dps.

Eiregirl

No

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

1st we got eso+
2nd skyshards
3rd skill lines
4th new pet giving bag space to all characters

You might be able to kind of debate the first 3...na not really.

But man that 4th one...5 extra bag slots across all characters on an account that would make my characters so over powered it is just beyond imagination...that is just crossing the P2W line....yeah right whatever.

MLGProPlayer

No

Eiregirl wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

1st we got eso+
2nd skyshards
3rd skill lines
4th new pet giving bag space to all characters

You might be able to kind of debate the first 3...na not really.

But man that 4th one...5 extra bag slots across all characters on an account that would make my characters so over powered it is just beyond imagination...that is just crossing the P2W line....yeah right whatever.

Korean MMOs are notorious for selling pets and junk that increase inventory space and give other non-combat perks. They end up being necessities as the game becomes too inconvenient to play without them.

It's certainly a slippery slope to go down and I'd rather they don't release that kind of stuff (or make it available in-game as well).

Rekt_gaming

Adding skill line's and skyshards has added p2w in a manner of speaking although you rarely see anyone taking full advantage. Having full fighters guild mages guild psijic skills alchemy passives etc on a battle scaled level 10 character reaching emperor like stats, you can have 30k health and 50k stam on a lowbie scaled character. This would make pve content even more of a joke then it already is and be quite a massive advantage in pvp. Yes this would require several hundred dollars spent in the crown store to achieve but the possibility is there.