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The Markarth DLC and Update 28 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts/
ZOS, the playerbase has made it clear that flat dps nerfs aren't acceptable, so stop it
MojaveHeld
✭✭✭✭✭
Vet trials groups are furious right now. Making us adjust our rotation and adapt to a new, but equally as good one, is one thing. But just flat out nerfing the amount of dps? Completely unacceptable. That idea was always a non-starter. So who on earth thought it was okay to clearly aim for doing exactly that with the latest design changes? This wasn't a direction the playerbase was willing to go, so whoever at ZOS thought this was a good idea probably shouldn't have a job anymore. Absolutely despicable. The only way to fix it is to admit you were wrong and immediately scrap these plans. Hopefully ZOS will come to its senses and do just that, but most of us aren't real hopeful.
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wavingblue✭✭✭✭Meh, the playerbase made it clear to ZOS multi-bidding wasn't ready for primetime nor really wanted at many levels by many people on many different threads.. they did it anyways. -
khajiitNPC✭✭✭✭✭The player base is furious huh? Interesting. You mean the forum goers are furious. Most of us will roll with the changes. Do some of them suck? Yeah. But this is only PTS cycle 1. More can change. Maybe it’s time to sign off for a while, get your bearings. Go have fun in real life. Come back see if you still like it, if not find a game that suits you.
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Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭Across the board dps nerfs are really the only was to combat the power creep that has been allowed to run unchecked for years. It just means that dungeon and trial groups will have to start dealing with some mechanics that they’ve been able to avoid by burning down bosses quickly. It’s not the end of the world. -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ironically... patch after patch people complain about "nerfs" Yet DPS seems to go up most patches
(it may not this one, I don't know... haven't tested yet)Raid Leader - Nightfighters - Healer - Raiding Rainbow
I do writs. Lots and lots of writs. I share the data.
Thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates
Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yQDUjYNQVsIFl0ktkbkSlfYPkzP6pgCOTMQ-qCuzfaI
Main Character
Elearium - Argonian Templar - EP - Dawnbringer - Tick-Tock Tormenter - Gryphon Heart - Immortal Redeemer - Extinguisher of Flames - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - AR41 - 42.4k+ Achievement Points
(True Genius - Bane of Thorns - No Rest for the Wicked - In Defiance of Death - Defanged the Devourer - Nature's Wrath - Depth's Defiler - Leave No Bone Unbroken)
Top ScoresvAA - 142,087
vSO - 143,342
vHRC - 143,151
vMoL - 154,324
vHoF - 217,849 (TTT)
vAS - 113,052 (IR)
vCR - 128,377 (GH)
vSS - 176,542
vKA - 225,167 (KW)
vDSA - 44,719
vBRP - 71,573
vMA - 563,660 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ironically... patch after patch people complain about "nerfs" Yet DPS seems to go up most patches
(it may not this one, I don't know... haven't tested yet)
Generally speaking, DPS at the top tier goes up, while progression groups feel the brunt of nerfs. So depending on your perspective as a player, both are true. -
Skullstachio✭✭✭✭✭Clearly we need a new combat designer because “Left, Right and center,” Mistakes are being made.
Like Boneyard for example in this pts patch note: Instead of Increasing it’s cost and reducing damage, Why not just reduce the damage but leave the cost as it is.
Because as far as I am concerned, an active ability should Only have its ability cost increased if its damage numbers are high, but if it has low damage numbers, then the cost should be reduced. But instead, they just make one butchered mess that results in a raging community that they possibly won’t even listen to. (It’s basically Todd Howard all over again.)
Xbox LIVE: Skullstachio
Timezone: (+10:00 AEST) (+11:00 AEDT During Daylight Saving Hours.)
Tips for how you can be an ESO Community Hero (Written and last edited by ZOS_GinaBruno at precisely 8:56PM, March 30th 2014.)Below are a few recommendations and tips to help you become one of the very best community members — a veritable hero — on The Elder Scrolls Online official community forums. These recommendations and tips also reflect the ESO core community philosophies.- Agree to Disagree: We have a very diverse community of individuals and groups who have a variety of interests, opinions, and backgrounds. Just like in every-day life, you will not agree with all the opinions you encounter here, and that’s okay. It’s perfectly acceptable to disagree, but please do not put other people down for their opinions, ideas, or suggestions. In most discussions, there is no right or wrong, just different angles, opinions, and interests.
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Mathius_Mordred✭✭✭✭✭Gives less, costs more, that just about sums up these changes.Skyrim Red Shirts. Join us at https://skyrimredshirts.com/
Join Skyrim Red Shirts. We welcome all, from new players to Vets. A mature drama free social group enjoying PVE questing, Dungeons, trials and arenas. Web, FB Group & Discord. Guild Hall, trial dummy, crafting, transmutation, banker & merchant. You may invite your friends. No requirements -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tastes great!
Less filling!
(Old timer commercial, for all you kids)"Get off my lawn!" -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »Tastes great!
Less filling!
(Old timer commercial, for all you kids)
That's an "old timer" commercial?
How old does that make me then?
Raid Leader - Nightfighters - Healer - Raiding Rainbow
I do writs. Lots and lots of writs. I share the data.
Thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459690/tracking-daily-writ-reward-drop-rates-refining-rates
Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yQDUjYNQVsIFl0ktkbkSlfYPkzP6pgCOTMQ-qCuzfaI
Main Character
Elearium - Argonian Templar - EP - Dawnbringer - Tick-Tock Tormenter - Gryphon Heart - Immortal Redeemer - Extinguisher of Flames - Dro-m’Athra Destroyer - Flawless Conquerer - Former Empress - Master Angler - Grand Master Crafter - AR41 - 42.4k+ Achievement Points
(True Genius - Bane of Thorns - No Rest for the Wicked - In Defiance of Death - Defanged the Devourer - Nature's Wrath - Depth's Defiler - Leave No Bone Unbroken)
Top ScoresvAA - 142,087
vSO - 143,342
vHRC - 143,151
vMoL - 154,324
vHoF - 217,849 (TTT)
vAS - 113,052 (IR)
vCR - 128,377 (GH)
vSS - 176,542
vKA - 225,167 (KW)
vDSA - 44,719
vBRP - 71,573
vMA - 563,660 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »Tastes great!
Less filling!
(Old timer commercial, for all you kids)
That's an "old timer" commercial?
How old does that make me then?
As old as me."Get off my lawn!" -
MojaveHeld✭✭✭✭✭given its PTS v1, why not give constructive feedback, which might have some effect.
Going rage quit at this point seems somewhat counterproductive.
This is the constructive feedback. Going for flat nerfs overall is so monumentally bad that the only constructive response to it is to point out its sheer stupidity and advise the immediate withdrawal of these changes. -
ShellaSunshine✭✭✭MojaveHeld wrote: »given its PTS v1, why not give constructive feedback, which might have some effect.
Going rage quit at this point seems somewhat counterproductive.
This is the constructive feedback. Going for flat nerfs overall is so monumentally bad that the only constructive response to it is to point out its sheer stupidity and advise the immediate withdrawal of these changes.
Lol balancing a game never ends and if you cannot adapt then maybe this isn't the game for you.
None of the supposed nerfs has ever affected my gameplay in the last 4 years of playing this game. -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nope just continue to stand in the Rosey Lion and pretend the mead is real!
Lupis Mortis EP Magplar Healer
Duke of Blood EP Stamplar DPS
Tequilafire EP StamDK Tank
Nick Dagger DC Stamsorc DPS
Aphotic Delirium DC Magplar Healer
Roll Your Bones DC Stamcro DPS
Blueblade DC Stamblade DPS
Omari DC Stamden DPS
PSN: Tequilafire
PC: @Tequilafire -
MojaveHeld✭✭✭✭✭ShellaSunshine wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »given its PTS v1, why not give constructive feedback, which might have some effect.
Going rage quit at this point seems somewhat counterproductive.
This is the constructive feedback. Going for flat nerfs overall is so monumentally bad that the only constructive response to it is to point out its sheer stupidity and advise the immediate withdrawal of these changes.
Lol balancing a game never ends and if you cannot adapt then maybe this isn't the game for you.
None of the supposed nerfs has ever affected my gameplay in the last 4 years of playing this game.
Been adapting for 3+ years now. Never seen a proposed change this monumentally stupid. Usually, when they nerf one thing, they buff something else. With these patch notes, it's just flat-out major nerfs with nothing to compensate for them. No way to adapt to that, because it's so incredibly stupid that even beginning game designers know that's not an okay approach to take. The fault is 100% on ZOS here, they broke a cardinal rule of game design, and showed their complete disdain for their own playerbase in doing so.Edited by MojaveHeld on September 16, 2019 10:28PM -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don’t mind meta shifts, and changing skills/gear/class every few months, but I agree that this patch looks disappointing. There’s nothing to shift to if everything is getting weaker (exceptions being maybe Purifying Light crit and the new Bound Armaments). -
norrisnick✭✭✭MojaveHeld wrote: »ShellaSunshine wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »given its PTS v1, why not give constructive feedback, which might have some effect.
Going rage quit at this point seems somewhat counterproductive.
This is the constructive feedback. Going for flat nerfs overall is so monumentally bad that the only constructive response to it is to point out its sheer stupidity and advise the immediate withdrawal of these changes.
Lol balancing a game never ends and if you cannot adapt then maybe this isn't the game for you.
None of the supposed nerfs has ever affected my gameplay in the last 4 years of playing this game.
Been adapting for 3+ years now. Never seen a proposed change this monumentally stupid. Usually, when they nerf one thing, they buff something else. With these patch notes, it's just flat-out nerfs with nothing to compensate for them. No way to adapt to that, because it's so incredibly stupid that even beginning game designers know that's not an okay approach to take. The fault is 100% on ZOS here, they broke a cardinal, rule of game design and showed their complete disdain for their own playerbase in doing so.
When the problem they are trying to fix is dmg that has gotten completely out of hand what do you suggest? Buff something not currently used (a la soultrap and entropy) to shift the problem but not fix it? -
MojaveHeld✭✭✭✭✭norrisnick wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »ShellaSunshine wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »given its PTS v1, why not give constructive feedback, which might have some effect.
Going rage quit at this point seems somewhat counterproductive.
This is the constructive feedback. Going for flat nerfs overall is so monumentally bad that the only constructive response to it is to point out its sheer stupidity and advise the immediate withdrawal of these changes.
Lol balancing a game never ends and if you cannot adapt then maybe this isn't the game for you.
None of the supposed nerfs has ever affected my gameplay in the last 4 years of playing this game.
Been adapting for 3+ years now. Never seen a proposed change this monumentally stupid. Usually, when they nerf one thing, they buff something else. With these patch notes, it's just flat-out nerfs with nothing to compensate for them. No way to adapt to that, because it's so incredibly stupid that even beginning game designers know that's not an okay approach to take. The fault is 100% on ZOS here, they broke a cardinal, rule of game design and showed their complete disdain for their own playerbase in doing so.
When the problem they are trying to fix is dmg that has gotten completely out of hand what do you suggest? Buff something not currently used (a la soultrap and entropy) to shift the problem but not fix it?
I advise them to realize that the problem doesn't actually exist. They're not getting scrubs completely breezing through vCR +3. The dps is still very much in a reasonable window for the content they have currently put out. If they were experienced vet trials players, they would know this. But they evidently have no clue. -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why couldn't they have reduced damage by 25% without the cost increase and see how it went, no they have to slash and hack by 50 to 60% and make abilities cost more on top of that.Lupis Mortis EP Magplar Healer
Duke of Blood EP Stamplar DPS
Tequilafire EP StamDK Tank
Nick Dagger DC Stamsorc DPS
Aphotic Delirium DC Magplar Healer
Roll Your Bones DC Stamcro DPS
Blueblade DC Stamblade DPS
Omari DC Stamden DPS
PSN: Tequilafire
PC: @Tequilafire -
norrisnick✭✭✭Did you see the 14min vMOL that was posted recently? When you see 141k parses on a trial boss you have eclipsed the reasonable window...
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MojaveHeld✭✭✭✭✭norrisnick wrote: »Did you see the 14min vMOL that was posted recently? When you see 141k parses on a trial boss you have eclipsed the reasonable window...
no, one of the best guilds in the world pulling that off is in no way outside the reasonable window. If such runs were the norm for vMoL it would be, but this extreme exception in no way indicates that dps is too high currently. -
Nirntrotter✭✭✭✭They should have balanced sets instead of putting all classes through the meat grinder.Edited by Nirntrotter on September 16, 2019 10:43PMAugust Palatine Arodel the Explorer, Altmer Whipster | *2014, PC-EU
@nirntrotter, hunting achievements all over Nirn and beyond. | 37k+ -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭norrisnick wrote: »[snippity snip]
When the problem they are trying to fix is dmg that has gotten completely out of hand what do you suggest? Buff something not currently used (a la soultrap and entropy) to shift the problem but not fix it?
I would say the problem isn't fixing damage that's gotten completely out of control.. The problem is that they consistently, consistently, consistently attempt to fix out-of-control damage among top-tier players in ways that barely affect these top-tier players but hit mid-and-lower-tier players, casuals, and newbies the hardest.
I'm not up on the PTS changes and haven't seen the data on what the results will be yet. But I do know that the last two years have been a string of attempts to address the excesses of the few by punishing the many who are not guilty of those excesses. This is a thing that you do when you're bad.
(Of course, I'll admit to some bias, as the Scalebreaker changes negatively affected my enjoyment of the gameplay so severely that I've lost any ability I ever had to give ZOS the benefit of the doubt.)Edited by MasterSpatula on September 16, 2019 10:49PM"A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle -
CipherNine✭✭✭✭✭norrisnick wrote: »Did you see the 14min vMOL that was posted recently? When you see 141k parses on a trial boss you have eclipsed the reasonable window...
Oh look another person that thinks cause the .01% of the player base can do something. That should cause drastic changes. It shouldn't and never should be a reason to change anything.PC-NA
Khajiit Templar - Healer
Argonian Necromancer - Healer
Breton Warden - Healer
Nord Necromancer - Tank
Argonian Templar - Tank
Nord Warden - Tank -
p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭norrisnick wrote: »Did you see the 14min vMOL that was posted recently? When you see 141k parses on a trial boss you have eclipsed the reasonable window...
Who is hitting 141k?
Also, keep in mind that a lot of content has been dumbed down so the less skilled players could have a stab at them (pun very much intended), so it's not too wild to assume skilled groups with a lot of reps in the content (and admittedly much higher dps than before) would start to become more proficient at them.PC/Xbox NA
Healer Main, but roleplays as a DPS when needed -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Why couldn't they have reduced damage by 25% without the cost increase and see how it went, no they have to slash and hack by 50 to 60% and make abilities cost more on top of that.
I agree with this, this right here^^^^, I don't think anyone has a clue at ZoS. The only thing I can even begin to imagine is they're trying to drastically scale back sustain across the board. Less damage, Higher costs, means having to use more skills over time to achieve the same current effect, which means needing more sustain?!? My other thought is absolutely NEEDING the new sets to retain some of the damage we have now?? /shakes head...maybe some number cruncher will youtube some answers, cause I for one am totally lost =/
"The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself" -
Mathius_Mordred✭✭✭✭✭norrisnick wrote: »Did you see the 14min vMOL that was posted recently? When you see 141k parses on a trial boss you have eclipsed the reasonable window...
That is the exception that proves the rule. It is possible in most games, given enough experience and enough testing to find a build that the vast majority of the player base would never work out and wouldn't understand if you gave it to them. Most of our guild is nowhere near that and are still struggling on any vet trial, we are learning and adapting to the last changes, this is just going to make it more difficult and remove some of the fun.
Remember that this is our leisure time, we do it to have fun not become frustrated that it's just too difficult. Frustrated players are easy to split into two camps, those who will persevere and adapt, but even they will never be able to return to levels they previously had, and those, the vast majority, who will say screw this and go play something else.
I'm ok at this game, but not an expert, I was an expert in my previous game, Star Trek Online, and where most would struggle to hit 20-30K DPS and good players would get 100K, my build was achieving over a million DPS burst and over 200K sustained. Should they then nerf the entire game because someone with 9 years experience and every legendary item in the game found a way to push DPS to its limits? Even after I shared the build only a couple of guys could get close, most couldn't afford the gear to even try it.
So because one group of extremely talented and well-geared players can manage to pull off a fast dungeon or trial is no basis for nerfing the fun for everyone else.
I would posit that these changes will be dialled back after testing on PTS, if not then I see trouble ahead.Skyrim Red Shirts. Join us at https://skyrimredshirts.com/
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