For All crying about Dizzying Swing

usmguy1234

TequilaFire wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

So many people defend an overpowered, overused skill, might lose their mindless wins if it's nerfed like it should be. No counter to a team full of spamtards going against one person with dizzy.

Dizzy swing is literally only OP against people who are terrible. And if it’s being spammed on it’s because you’ve got no game and ur letting it happen. Everyone who uses this skill also has it used against them. If it’s so OP roll a stand build and slot it see how it works for you against a good player.

It works pretty good against all players. It even works on players out of range. It even works on players who broke free but still CCed.

Come on don't insult everyone's intelligence. If it was a garbage move that only worked on bad players. Why is being spammed successfully even in high MMR BG's?

Dizzying Swing needs huge adjustments and bug fixing so it only does what it's designed to do.

Aren't you the same guy claiming that magplar and dots are ok but complaining about dizzy? Don't you think that's insulting to the intelligence of the mass majority of people who think dots and the magplar spec are currently over powered?

Dots are ovepowered, not magplars and all classes use the 2 worst offending dots.
Plars just have a defense for the dot cheese.
As to DS I have no real problem with it.

I've ran in to very few stamina players running those "2 worst offending dots." 99% are magic specs and it's not because they're underpowered. Pre scalebreaker most magic specs were fairly competitive (not meaning all). The ones most gimped after were magblade and magsorc. Magdk and magplar retained most of their orginal strength. Magdk's are manageable but the bubble snare on magplar put them on another level entirely.

Fur_like_snow

Sounds like more of a platform performance issue than an OP skill issue.

FearlessOne_2014

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

Sounds like more of a platform performance issue than an OP skill issue.

It is. However since ZOS can't fix the servers to allow the skill to work properly. Than they owe it to us to do the next best thing. Fix and balance the skill on the current performance issues.

Fur_like_snow

So is DS OP in spite of the bad server performance? If not, than why ask to have it “balanced” when it’s the server performance that is the root of the problem. I don’t have these issues on PC NA. And yet any change to DS would effect all platforms. However, it’s worth mentioning that Zeni is addressing the server issues but we’ll have to wait till next year to see if anything meaningful changes.

Dreyloch

goldenarcher1 wrote: »

Still hard to land....

watching this kid fall like that on his knee, makes my "CL's" twinge....(ACL, MCL) o_0

itscompton

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

So many people defend an overpowered, overused skill, might lose their mindless wins if it's nerfed like it should be. No counter to a team full of spamtards going against one person with dizzy.

A weapon skill should never be better than a class‘s spammable yet..BiS for stamden/stamsorc/stamcro/stamplar/stamdk

Interesting 🤔

Good one. Now show us that very class spam on stamsorcs and stamdks. Shall I count the bird as stamden's spam? *** like that only works if you give every class the same toolkit, which in turn would lead to an even bigger loss of class identity. But sure thing, just nerf every weapon skill until my hurricane tickles you to death.

Wtf are you going on about? I was implying that class spam should be better, obv that means stamsorc needs 1 to begin with

But the fact that basically every stam class is running dswing shows that class spams are trash or that dswing is overperforming

I use dswing instead of bird on my stamden

Just one question: if every class skill is better than what weapons have to offer, who would use weapon skills then? Answer is: nobody. That's the reason why not every class has access everything. Arguably, some classes offer less then others but that's a topic worth of it's own.
But I can agree that those with own spams should be on par with generic spams. E.g. Birds are simply bad. But in the U24 preview they teased changes to them especially. But then again, if you make class skills so much better than everything else those classes without access to an equivalent would suffer.

Anyway, everybody and their mother runs soul trap in evey scenario ZOS can offer. Poison Injection, Wall of Elements, Endless Hail, Entropy are on every build, shall we nerf skills these skills too because people use them? That's why skills exist, for people to use them.

When any one of those skills hits hard enough to take a 1/3 of your health in on GCD and stuns you so you can be finished off then you can compare them to Dizzy, otherwise you're just lamely trying to defend an overtuned skill.
And to the white knights saying no on lands it on them, I'm guessing you're on a stam toon with multiple speed amps, try avoiding someone with all those same speed boosts while playing on a Magtemp or MagDK.
Fighting a D swing spammer on my Temp usually consists of me moving in to try to cancel their casts as they circle around trying to get it off. But when someone is moving a lot faster than I can eventually they get the angle and get one in which allows two more skills and an execute to land before I can even try to break free.
ZOS already nerfed the damage or took away the CC from other moves and stated they didn't want high damage and CC combined in one move but somehow decided to not only leave Dizzy but buffed it by reducing it's cast time.

usmguy1234

itscompton wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

So many people defend an overpowered, overused skill, might lose their mindless wins if it's nerfed like it should be. No counter to a team full of spamtards going against one person with dizzy.

A weapon skill should never be better than a class‘s spammable yet..BiS for stamden/stamsorc/stamcro/stamplar/stamdk

Interesting 🤔

Good one. Now show us that very class spam on stamsorcs and stamdks. Shall I count the bird as stamden's spam? *** like that only works if you give every class the same toolkit, which in turn would lead to an even bigger loss of class identity. But sure thing, just nerf every weapon skill until my hurricane tickles you to death.

Wtf are you going on about? I was implying that class spam should be better, obv that means stamsorc needs 1 to begin with

But the fact that basically every stam class is running dswing shows that class spams are trash or that dswing is overperforming

I use dswing instead of bird on my stamden

Just one question: if every class skill is better than what weapons have to offer, who would use weapon skills then? Answer is: nobody. That's the reason why not every class has access everything. Arguably, some classes offer less then others but that's a topic worth of it's own.
But I can agree that those with own spams should be on par with generic spams. E.g. Birds are simply bad. But in the U24 preview they teased changes to them especially. But then again, if you make class skills so much better than everything else those classes without access to an equivalent would suffer.

Anyway, everybody and their mother runs soul trap in evey scenario ZOS can offer. Poison Injection, Wall of Elements, Endless Hail, Entropy are on every build, shall we nerf skills these skills too because people use them? That's why skills exist, for people to use them.

When any one of those skills hits hard enough to take a 1/3 of your health in on GCD and stuns you so you can be finished off then you can compare them to Dizzy, otherwise you're just lamely trying to defend an overtuned skill.
And to the white knights saying no on lands it on them, I'm guessing you're on a stam toon with multiple speed amps, try avoiding someone with all those same speed boosts while playing on a Magtemp or MagDK.
Fighting a D swing spammer on my Temp usually consists of me moving in to try to cancel their casts as they circle around trying to get it off. But when someone is moving a lot faster than I can eventually they get the angle and get one in which allows two more skills and an execute to land before I can even try to break free.
ZOS already nerfed the damage or took away the CC from other moves and stated they didn't want high damage and CC combined in one move but somehow decided to not only leave Dizzy but buffed it by reducing it's cast time.

Cries about dizzy but has a grap closer that has offbalance and basically guarantees 10% extra damage against opponents.

Luede

problem with dizzy swing is the health bar desync and the clients. if u land dizzy swing, i am next to u on ur client, but on my client it happend very often that u are 10 meters away and i dont see ur animation. so it happend very often that u hit 2 dizzy + execute in 1 second (on my client) and there is no way to react.

sure, its a server and zenimax prob, but i have to life with this crap, because they are not able to fix this problem.

itscompton

usmguy1234 wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

So many people defend an overpowered, overused skill, might lose their mindless wins if it's nerfed like it should be. No counter to a team full of spamtards going against one person with dizzy.

A weapon skill should never be better than a class‘s spammable yet..BiS for stamden/stamsorc/stamcro/stamplar/stamdk

Interesting 🤔

Good one. Now show us that very class spam on stamsorcs and stamdks. Shall I count the bird as stamden's spam? *** like that only works if you give every class the same toolkit, which in turn would lead to an even bigger loss of class identity. But sure thing, just nerf every weapon skill until my hurricane tickles you to death.

Wtf are you going on about? I was implying that class spam should be better, obv that means stamsorc needs 1 to begin with

But the fact that basically every stam class is running dswing shows that class spams are trash or that dswing is overperforming

I use dswing instead of bird on my stamden

Just one question: if every class skill is better than what weapons have to offer, who would use weapon skills then? Answer is: nobody. That's the reason why not every class has access everything. Arguably, some classes offer less then others but that's a topic worth of it's own.
But I can agree that those with own spams should be on par with generic spams. E.g. Birds are simply bad. But in the U24 preview they teased changes to them especially. But then again, if you make class skills so much better than everything else those classes without access to an equivalent would suffer.

Anyway, everybody and their mother runs soul trap in evey scenario ZOS can offer. Poison Injection, Wall of Elements, Endless Hail, Entropy are on every build, shall we nerf skills these skills too because people use them? That's why skills exist, for people to use them.

When any one of those skills hits hard enough to take a 1/3 of your health in on GCD and stuns you so you can be finished off then you can compare them to Dizzy, otherwise you're just lamely trying to defend an overtuned skill.
And to the white knights saying no on lands it on them, I'm guessing you're on a stam toon with multiple speed amps, try avoiding someone with all those same speed boosts while playing on a Magtemp or MagDK.
Fighting a D swing spammer on my Temp usually consists of me moving in to try to cancel their casts as they circle around trying to get it off. But when someone is moving a lot faster than I can eventually they get the angle and get one in which allows two more skills and an execute to land before I can even try to break free.
ZOS already nerfed the damage or took away the CC from other moves and stated they didn't want high damage and CC combined in one move but somehow decided to not only leave Dizzy but buffed it by reducing it's cast time.

Cries about dizzy but has a grap closer that has offbalance and basically guarantees 10% extra damage against opponents.

Yeah and that gap closer hits for 3-4K against most players vs an 8-9K DS, not to mention the stun can be instantly broken vs DS's which can't. And there is currently a bug which consistently locks me out of casting another skill for a second or two after using Toppling, meaning the stun gets completely wasted.

TequilaFire

Not to mention Toppling has a good chance to launch you like a spaceman. lol

Slayer62

dizzy is fine maybe stun can be deleted (im magicka player)but results of poor performance, i cant keep an eye on dizzy because ping and fps drops.

ArenGesus

Dinokstrun wrote: »

Dizzy is very strong at the moment, it's basically a melee snipe with a powerful knock up which can be awkward...

Uh yeah, that is awkward. I was fine with it until I found out it can get you pregnant. Nerf dizzy knock ups.

usmguy1234

itscompton wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

So many people defend an overpowered, overused skill, might lose their mindless wins if it's nerfed like it should be. No counter to a team full of spamtards going against one person with dizzy.

A weapon skill should never be better than a class‘s spammable yet..BiS for stamden/stamsorc/stamcro/stamplar/stamdk

Interesting 🤔

Good one. Now show us that very class spam on stamsorcs and stamdks. Shall I count the bird as stamden's spam? *** like that only works if you give every class the same toolkit, which in turn would lead to an even bigger loss of class identity. But sure thing, just nerf every weapon skill until my hurricane tickles you to death.

Wtf are you going on about? I was implying that class spam should be better, obv that means stamsorc needs 1 to begin with

But the fact that basically every stam class is running dswing shows that class spams are trash or that dswing is overperforming

I use dswing instead of bird on my stamden

Just one question: if every class skill is better than what weapons have to offer, who would use weapon skills then? Answer is: nobody. That's the reason why not every class has access everything. Arguably, some classes offer less then others but that's a topic worth of it's own.
But I can agree that those with own spams should be on par with generic spams. E.g. Birds are simply bad. But in the U24 preview they teased changes to them especially. But then again, if you make class skills so much better than everything else those classes without access to an equivalent would suffer.

Anyway, everybody and their mother runs soul trap in evey scenario ZOS can offer. Poison Injection, Wall of Elements, Endless Hail, Entropy are on every build, shall we nerf skills these skills too because people use them? That's why skills exist, for people to use them.

When any one of those skills hits hard enough to take a 1/3 of your health in on GCD and stuns you so you can be finished off then you can compare them to Dizzy, otherwise you're just lamely trying to defend an overtuned skill.
And to the white knights saying no on lands it on them, I'm guessing you're on a stam toon with multiple speed amps, try avoiding someone with all those same speed boosts while playing on a Magtemp or MagDK.
Fighting a D swing spammer on my Temp usually consists of me moving in to try to cancel their casts as they circle around trying to get it off. But when someone is moving a lot faster than I can eventually they get the angle and get one in which allows two more skills and an execute to land before I can even try to break free.
ZOS already nerfed the damage or took away the CC from other moves and stated they didn't want high damage and CC combined in one move but somehow decided to not only leave Dizzy but buffed it by reducing it's cast time.

Cries about dizzy but has a grap closer that has offbalance and basically guarantees 10% extra damage against opponents.

Yeah and that gap closer hits for 3-4K against most players vs an 8-9K DS, not to mention the stun can be instantly broken vs DS's which can't. And there is currently a bug which consistently locks me out of casting another skill for a second or two after using Toppling, meaning the stun gets completely wasted.

Sounds like you are playing a really squishy build if you're getting hit by dizzy that hard. I have had no issues with toppling on my magplar. Toppling into sweep is stupid strong right now. Also good luck moving vs all the magplar snares/slows. You can literally run someone out of stam before they get out of your ritual.

evoniee

oopsie, infact uppercut get a buff in 5.1.5

surpirise attack ? nahhhhh, it is worthless, dk noxious have AOE fracture, dot and an initial damage of 75% of SA / same damage as crushing weapon. noxious and DIZZY FTW

Dual wield? naaaah, no prebuff major brutality, less utility and less damage anyway OMEGALUL . rally / FM and executioner are too good to skip, right? ez burst heal / snare immunity, minor endurance, major brutality.
and of course DIZZY SWING.

and why i even use killers blade when executioner start at 50%hp that can reach additional damage 400% , diversity? naaaahhh.
class skill have no use anyway.

Katahdin

Heimpai wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Dizzy swing is literally the only skill in the game that requires more than two functional brain cells to utilize.

Mhm... Have you ever tried to use Assassin's Will, Summon Shade or Undo? Actually mashing same button doesn't require any skill, setting up skill long before using it and then utilizing it in the right moment requires skill because you can't spam it till it works. Sorry to disappoint you but you are not extraordinary skilled.

Tbf this is DoT meta, it’s no longer NB meta..Dswing does take skill compared to spamming DoTs from 40+m

In general Dswing doesn’t really take skill anymore unless you’re lagging

LMAO DoT META they say. When Dizzy -> Onslaught -> Executioner combo, kills players 3 times faster then DoTs. People............ No hope for them at all!

And you have to be 7X closer lmao

If you are mag and get rekt by that combo then you either weren’t paying attention or need to adjust something

I’ve already stated multiple times onslaught is overperforming, dswing has dsync issues..

Outside of X v 1ing DoTs are weak compared to direct damage this patch. DoTs deals much less DPS than Direct Damage in PvP. Also if someone is hitting you from range use a gap closer and hit them with the wombo combo, EZ PZ.

Magicka is still weak compared to Stamina even with DoTs. Only 2 Magicka classes can successfully 1 v X. And you'd have a much easier time, doing it with most of the Stamina Direct Damage builds.

If you are Stam and getting rekt by DoTs from a single player. Then you need to adjust your build or learn to gap close.

Ha my issue is magplar but you won’t see me asking for a nerf, DoT‘s aren’t an issue either..But if you’re going to call out dswing then..lol l2p

Dizzying Swing is Objectively broken due to server performance allowing you to get hit by glitched Dizzying swing 3 times in a row before you break free with stamina.

The skill is objectively brokenly overpowered. No learning to play is going to help you in the situation. You are just going to die because Overpowered glitched skill. That needs to be re balanced and fix to work properly with CC breaking.

There have been times in BG where I kill another player using just my Dizzying swing until they die in like 5 secs. That is way more than any MagPlar skill or DoT can yield in a comparable time frame.

Which I’ve already pointed out multiple times so instead of asking for a nerf of the only viable stam spammable for most classes ask for the dsync to be fixed..

^Not claiming you’re asking for a nerf just a lot are, oh the range is all kinds of bugged 🤦‍♂️

Yea cause they totally fixed the desync on snipe....

LuxLunae

Some of you caught on what I was trying to say.

I am a stamplar.

I usually used jabs to help me kill in pvp.

However, when people got BRP sword and DW Cloak and/or Living Dark in BGs. (Some magplars use dual wield)

I noticed my jabs were worthless. They did no damage...because jabs is

1. an AOE (reduced damage by 25%)
2. Helps living dark heal the enemy faster when they get hit by the multiple jabs (heals like 1k health per .5 seconds of damage taken)
3. Takes time to do damage...DOT (living dark and it takes time to take a chunk of health out)
4. All while being reduced another 30% thanks to BRP sword.

So what did I do to my build?

I use jabs and flawless dawnbreaker away from the person I am about to attack to get crit and 300 Weapon Damge...

Then I toppling charge right into them and quicky start hitting the Dizzying swing.

At first I tried to use an execute real fast but they sometimes managed to heal making the execute damage super weak.

So I said FORGET EXECUTE!! and continued with the Dizzying Swing because it kept that constant 6k per hit damage on them. They are confused because they have that CC immunity from the toppling charge and when the 3rd or 4th Dizzy hits them, they are sent to their flying deaths.

the 300 WD from flawless helps because I put the rest in stam recov so I can just keep running at them if they try to get away and not have to worry about stam loss. Also the fact that I am a REDGUARD >:-D.

Why use jabs when I get 8% reduction in use of my Dizzy Swings...Infinite Swings ...yeah..thats what Ill call it...

1. Dizzying Swing cuts the BS with the Living Dark (6k+ damage vs their 1k heal from living..instead of 1.2k damage per 1k with each jab)
2. Does not do damage over time (up front damage no wait times.)
3. Does huge damage forcing them to use their resources on healing and blocking even with the 30% reduction with BRP sword
4. They lose that 30% buff as they ran out of resources and I still have a full GREEN bar of stam waiting...
5. If they run I pop dual wield speed buff and follow them. They will lose resources before I do...and that's when I start the infinite swings
5. Attrition FTW

ZoS backed themselves in a corner... a bad one... They forced me to change it up when they destroyed sets that made jabs still viable...

I was looking in my old junk sets and saw that I had a full set of briarhart from when it first came out...I was using it back in the day as a magplar (i didn't know any better lol) Having stamina jabs to proc briar will make me sustain so much better imo.

I am thinking about taking my build to the next state.. remove infinite stam build and add more damage to it...

Insco851

goldenarcher1 wrote: »

Still hard to land....

Probably the easiest it’s EVER been.

leepalmer95

usmguy1234 wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

So many people defend an overpowered, overused skill, might lose their mindless wins if it's nerfed like it should be. No counter to a team full of spamtards going against one person with dizzy.

A weapon skill should never be better than a class‘s spammable yet..BiS for stamden/stamsorc/stamcro/stamplar/stamdk

Interesting 🤔

Good one. Now show us that very class spam on stamsorcs and stamdks. Shall I count the bird as stamden's spam? *** like that only works if you give every class the same toolkit, which in turn would lead to an even bigger loss of class identity. But sure thing, just nerf every weapon skill until my hurricane tickles you to death.

Wtf are you going on about? I was implying that class spam should be better, obv that means stamsorc needs 1 to begin with

But the fact that basically every stam class is running dswing shows that class spams are trash or that dswing is overperforming

I use dswing instead of bird on my stamden

Just one question: if every class skill is better than what weapons have to offer, who would use weapon skills then? Answer is: nobody. That's the reason why not every class has access everything. Arguably, some classes offer less then others but that's a topic worth of it's own.
But I can agree that those with own spams should be on par with generic spams. E.g. Birds are simply bad. But in the U24 preview they teased changes to them especially. But then again, if you make class skills so much better than everything else those classes without access to an equivalent would suffer.

Anyway, everybody and their mother runs soul trap in evey scenario ZOS can offer. Poison Injection, Wall of Elements, Endless Hail, Entropy are on every build, shall we nerf skills these skills too because people use them? That's why skills exist, for people to use them.

When any one of those skills hits hard enough to take a 1/3 of your health in on GCD and stuns you so you can be finished off then you can compare them to Dizzy, otherwise you're just lamely trying to defend an overtuned skill.
And to the white knights saying no on lands it on them, I'm guessing you're on a stam toon with multiple speed amps, try avoiding someone with all those same speed boosts while playing on a Magtemp or MagDK.
Fighting a D swing spammer on my Temp usually consists of me moving in to try to cancel their casts as they circle around trying to get it off. But when someone is moving a lot faster than I can eventually they get the angle and get one in which allows two more skills and an execute to land before I can even try to break free.
ZOS already nerfed the damage or took away the CC from other moves and stated they didn't want high damage and CC combined in one move but somehow decided to not only leave Dizzy but buffed it by reducing it's cast time.

Cries about dizzy but has a grap closer that has offbalance and basically guarantees 10% extra damage against opponents.

And is so fast its basically a teleport.

Oh and it can proc burning light for extra 2-k dmg.

leepalmer95

LuxLunae wrote: »

Some of you caught on what I was trying to say.

I am a stamplar.

I usually used jabs to help me kill in pvp.

However, when people got BRP sword and DW Cloak and/or Living Dark in BGs. (Some magplars use dual wield)

I noticed my jabs were worthless. They did no damage...because jabs is

1. an AOE (reduced damage by 25%)
2. Helps living dark heal the enemy faster when they get hit by the multiple jabs (heals like 1k health per .5 seconds of damage taken)
3. Takes time to do damage...DOT (living dark and it takes time to take a chunk of health out)
4. All while being reduced another 30% thanks to BRP sword.

So what did I do to my build?

I use jabs and flawless dawnbreaker away from the person I am about to attack to get crit and 300 Weapon Damge...

Then I toppling charge right into them and quicky start hitting the Dizzying swing.

At first I tried to use an execute real fast but they sometimes managed to heal making the execute damage super weak.

So I said FORGET EXECUTE!! and continued with the Dizzying Swing because it kept that constant 6k per hit damage on them. They are confused because they have that CC immunity from the toppling charge and when the 3rd or 4th Dizzy hits them, they are sent to their flying deaths.

the 300 WD from flawless helps because I put the rest in stam recov so I can just keep running at them if they try to get away and not have to worry about stam loss. Also the fact that I am a REDGUARD >:-D.

Why use jabs when I get 8% reduction in use of my Dizzy Swings...Infinite Swings ...yeah..thats what Ill call it...

1. Dizzying Swing cuts the BS with the Living Dark (6k+ damage vs their 1k heal from living..instead of 1.2k damage per 1k with each jab)
2. Does not do damage over time (up front damage no wait times.)
3. Does huge damage forcing them to use their resources on healing and blocking even with the 30% reduction with BRP sword
4. They lose that 30% buff as they ran out of resources and I still have a full GREEN bar of stam waiting...
5. If they run I pop dual wield speed buff and follow them. They will lose resources before I do...and that's when I start the infinite swings
5. Attrition FTW

ZoS backed themselves in a corner... a bad one... They forced me to change it up when they destroyed sets that made jabs still viable...

I was looking in my old junk sets and saw that I had a full set of briarhart from when it first came out...I was using it back in the day as a magplar (i didn't know any better lol) Having stamina jabs to proc briar will make me sustain so much better imo.

I am thinking about taking my build to the next state.. remove infinite stam build and add more damage to it...

Just dizzying into onslaught is all you need. It carries so hard.

FearlessOne_2014

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LuxLunae wrote: »

Some of you caught on what I was trying to say.

I am a stamplar.

I usually used jabs to help me kill in pvp.

However, when people got BRP sword and DW Cloak and/or Living Dark in BGs. (Some magplars use dual wield)

I noticed my jabs were worthless. They did no damage...because jabs is

1. an AOE (reduced damage by 25%)
2. Helps living dark heal the enemy faster when they get hit by the multiple jabs (heals like 1k health per .5 seconds of damage taken)
3. Takes time to do damage...DOT (living dark and it takes time to take a chunk of health out)
4. All while being reduced another 30% thanks to BRP sword.

So what did I do to my build?

I use jabs and flawless dawnbreaker away from the person I am about to attack to get crit and 300 Weapon Damge...

Then I toppling charge right into them and quicky start hitting the Dizzying swing.

At first I tried to use an execute real fast but they sometimes managed to heal making the execute damage super weak.

So I said FORGET EXECUTE!! and continued with the Dizzying Swing because it kept that constant 6k per hit damage on them. They are confused because they have that CC immunity from the toppling charge and when the 3rd or 4th Dizzy hits them, they are sent to their flying deaths.

the 300 WD from flawless helps because I put the rest in stam recov so I can just keep running at them if they try to get away and not have to worry about stam loss. Also the fact that I am a REDGUARD >:-D.

Why use jabs when I get 8% reduction in use of my Dizzy Swings...Infinite Swings ...yeah..thats what Ill call it...

1. Dizzying Swing cuts the BS with the Living Dark (6k+ damage vs their 1k heal from living..instead of 1.2k damage per 1k with each jab)
2. Does not do damage over time (up front damage no wait times.)
3. Does huge damage forcing them to use their resources on healing and blocking even with the 30% reduction with BRP sword
4. They lose that 30% buff as they ran out of resources and I still have a full GREEN bar of stam waiting...
5. If they run I pop dual wield speed buff and follow them. They will lose resources before I do...and that's when I start the infinite swings
5. Attrition FTW

ZoS backed themselves in a corner... a bad one... They forced me to change it up when they destroyed sets that made jabs still viable...

I was looking in my old junk sets and saw that I had a full set of briarhart from when it first came out...I was using it back in the day as a magplar (i didn't know any better lol) Having stamina jabs to proc briar will make me sustain so much better imo.

I am thinking about taking my build to the next state.. remove infinite stam build and add more damage to it...

Just dizzying into onslaught is all you need. It carries so hard.

Yeah it does. It's pretty sad but hey. It is what it is.

Insco851

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LuxLunae wrote: »

Some of you caught on what I was trying to say.

I am a stamplar.

I usually used jabs to help me kill in pvp.

However, when people got BRP sword and DW Cloak and/or Living Dark in BGs. (Some magplars use dual wield)

I noticed my jabs were worthless. They did no damage...because jabs is

1. an AOE (reduced damage by 25%)
2. Helps living dark heal the enemy faster when they get hit by the multiple jabs (heals like 1k health per .5 seconds of damage taken)
3. Takes time to do damage...DOT (living dark and it takes time to take a chunk of health out)
4. All while being reduced another 30% thanks to BRP sword.

So what did I do to my build?

I use jabs and flawless dawnbreaker away from the person I am about to attack to get crit and 300 Weapon Damge...

Then I toppling charge right into them and quicky start hitting the Dizzying swing.

At first I tried to use an execute real fast but they sometimes managed to heal making the execute damage super weak.

So I said FORGET EXECUTE!! and continued with the Dizzying Swing because it kept that constant 6k per hit damage on them. They are confused because they have that CC immunity from the toppling charge and when the 3rd or 4th Dizzy hits them, they are sent to their flying deaths.

the 300 WD from flawless helps because I put the rest in stam recov so I can just keep running at them if they try to get away and not have to worry about stam loss. Also the fact that I am a REDGUARD >:-D.

Why use jabs when I get 8% reduction in use of my Dizzy Swings...Infinite Swings ...yeah..thats what Ill call it...

1. Dizzying Swing cuts the BS with the Living Dark (6k+ damage vs their 1k heal from living..instead of 1.2k damage per 1k with each jab)
2. Does not do damage over time (up front damage no wait times.)
3. Does huge damage forcing them to use their resources on healing and blocking even with the 30% reduction with BRP sword
4. They lose that 30% buff as they ran out of resources and I still have a full GREEN bar of stam waiting...
5. If they run I pop dual wield speed buff and follow them. They will lose resources before I do...and that's when I start the infinite swings
5. Attrition FTW

ZoS backed themselves in a corner... a bad one... They forced me to change it up when they destroyed sets that made jabs still viable...

I was looking in my old junk sets and saw that I had a full set of briarhart from when it first came out...I was using it back in the day as a magplar (i didn't know any better lol) Having stamina jabs to proc briar will make me sustain so much better imo.

I am thinking about taking my build to the next state.. remove infinite stam build and add more damage to it...

Just dizzying into onslaught is all you need. It carries so hard.

Lol yup... I basically have a bomb build for my stamcro. 1 bar all about group comp, colossus ult... the other bar? 2h with my buffs, my heals, my broken dizzy>onslaught single target gibber.

Emma_Overload

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I guess the solution is to have the devs nerf the top 10 most used skills and armor sets every quarter until we end up just light attacking all the time. Suddenly the bad PUG groups will be meta!

ZOS will figure out a way to make the Stamina light attacks 50% stronger and have a stun attached, too. Only tree-circling stam thug pugs will be meta. Mag pugs will be screwed, as usual.

FearlessOne_2014

Emma_Overload wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I guess the solution is to have the devs nerf the top 10 most used skills and armor sets every quarter until we end up just light attacking all the time. Suddenly the bad PUG groups will be meta!

ZOS will figure out a way to make the Stamina light attacks 50% stronger and have a stun attached, too. Only tree-circling stam thug pugs will be meta. Mag pugs will be screwed, as usual.

As is the course of ESO. You don't like being a gimped Caster. Than you better go find another MMO. Believe me I am currently searching. Tho outside of the MMO genre this one looks super fun and promising.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Hl310Bokk

Sad times when one has to look outside of the RPG genre for some decent Magical gameplay.

itscompton

usmguy1234 wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

So many people defend an overpowered, overused skill, might lose their mindless wins if it's nerfed like it should be. No counter to a team full of spamtards going against one person with dizzy.

A weapon skill should never be better than a class‘s spammable yet..BiS for stamden/stamsorc/stamcro/stamplar/stamdk

Interesting 🤔

Good one. Now show us that very class spam on stamsorcs and stamdks. Shall I count the bird as stamden's spam? *** like that only works if you give every class the same toolkit, which in turn would lead to an even bigger loss of class identity. But sure thing, just nerf every weapon skill until my hurricane tickles you to death.

Wtf are you going on about? I was implying that class spam should be better, obv that means stamsorc needs 1 to begin with

But the fact that basically every stam class is running dswing shows that class spams are trash or that dswing is overperforming

I use dswing instead of bird on my stamden

Just one question: if every class skill is better than what weapons have to offer, who would use weapon skills then? Answer is: nobody. That's the reason why not every class has access everything. Arguably, some classes offer less then others but that's a topic worth of it's own.
But I can agree that those with own spams should be on par with generic spams. E.g. Birds are simply bad. But in the U24 preview they teased changes to them especially. But then again, if you make class skills so much better than everything else those classes without access to an equivalent would suffer.

Anyway, everybody and their mother runs soul trap in evey scenario ZOS can offer. Poison Injection, Wall of Elements, Endless Hail, Entropy are on every build, shall we nerf skills these skills too because people use them? That's why skills exist, for people to use them.

When any one of those skills hits hard enough to take a 1/3 of your health in on GCD and stuns you so you can be finished off then you can compare them to Dizzy, otherwise you're just lamely trying to defend an overtuned skill.
And to the white knights saying no on lands it on them, I'm guessing you're on a stam toon with multiple speed amps, try avoiding someone with all those same speed boosts while playing on a Magtemp or MagDK.
Fighting a D swing spammer on my Temp usually consists of me moving in to try to cancel their casts as they circle around trying to get it off. But when someone is moving a lot faster than I can eventually they get the angle and get one in which allows two more skills and an execute to land before I can even try to break free.
ZOS already nerfed the damage or took away the CC from other moves and stated they didn't want high damage and CC combined in one move but somehow decided to not only leave Dizzy but buffed it by reducing it's cast time.

Cries about dizzy but has a grap closer that has offbalance and basically guarantees 10% extra damage against opponents.

Yeah and that gap closer hits for 3-4K against most players vs an 8-9K DS, not to mention the stun can be instantly broken vs DS's which can't. And there is currently a bug which consistently locks me out of casting another skill for a second or two after using Toppling, meaning the stun gets completely wasted.

Sounds like you are playing a really squishy build if you're getting hit by dizzy that hard. I have had no issues with toppling on my magplar. Toppling into sweep is stupid strong right now. Also good luck moving vs all the magplar snares/slows. You can literally run someone out of stam before they get out of your ritual.

Yeah, my build is squishy but the fact I can build full offensive in light armor (42 max mag 3000 SD 15k pen) and barely scratch the health bar of a good stam player in heavy before they can delete me with one DS combo just further serves to illustrate how broken it is. Ps I really wish you were on PS4 so we could duel. You seem to love to question my skill and it would be very satisfying to put you in your place.

LuxLunae

I play stamina templar like I said I can keep my stam topped for most of the time...The only reason why I can sometimes (not all the time) survive is because I can block and still have a good bit left to do other things.

When I played magica (which I don't at all) I lose my stam and any ability to break free, run, block, or roll. I can't stand that crud. No amount of magica strength will ever make me play magica just because I lose my movement.

I forgot about magplar.. so what was ZoS bright idea for magplar?

Give the STAMINA sweeps to Magica.... and vice versa....

Stamina then got 30% damage reduction...then zos nerfed it...to switch it to freking increasing light attack damage...really?

While the previous stamina sweeps AKA Magica Sweeps is this

Does a *** load of damage...then people in front of you take 66% more damage....

So essentially you get a free crit +16%...THEN IF IT CRITS YOU GET ANOTHER 50% MORE DAMAGE...

So its like 116% more damage!!!! and now you know why everybody is dying...Put that light pop.... lol...

That thing is the 2h Dizzy With Onslaught for magica templar...

I should know this because before they switched it I had abuild called MR. 52....

It was a redguard (before they did the race changes) with 52k stamina...

I'd just aimlessly act stupid sometimes dying so they wouldn't see me as a threat... Then when I get them alone, I'd just POTLight them, jab, jab... and just before the light ends SWEEP BOOM DEAD!!!

It killed even the heaviest of tanks... After that I just join a pug and put my light on everybody in the opposing zerg... then run into it like a man on fire and do sweeps jabbing like a madman... It was never as effective as Mag Bombs...

Rofl I might have to make another post about how I sweep 2 win... Sweeps are better than meteor... Sweeps are FAR better than ANY STAFF TECHNIQUE.... Hmm...dizzing with mag sweeps...brb im going to go try pelinals =D

leepalmer95

Emma_Overload wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I guess the solution is to have the devs nerf the top 10 most used skills and armor sets every quarter until we end up just light attacking all the time. Suddenly the bad PUG groups will be meta!

ZOS will figure out a way to make the Stamina light attacks 50% stronger and have a stun attached, too. Only tree-circling stam thug pugs will be meta. Mag pugs will be screwed, as usual.

I die to mag more than stam this patch for sure.

Kadoin

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I guess the solution is to have the devs nerf the top 10 most used skills and armor sets every quarter until we end up just light attacking all the time. Suddenly the bad PUG groups will be meta!

ZOS will figure out a way to make the Stamina light attacks 50% stronger and have a stun attached, too. Only tree-circling stam thug pugs will be meta. Mag pugs will be screwed, as usual.

I die to mag more than stam this patch for sure.

If there is an army of them vs you alone, it doesn't count.

leepalmer95

Kadoin wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I guess the solution is to have the devs nerf the top 10 most used skills and armor sets every quarter until we end up just light attacking all the time. Suddenly the bad PUG groups will be meta!

ZOS will figure out a way to make the Stamina light attacks 50% stronger and have a stun attached, too. Only tree-circling stam thug pugs will be meta. Mag pugs will be screwed, as usual.

I die to mag more than stam this patch for sure.

If there is an army of them vs you alone, it doesn't count.

There more magicka in groups than stamina. Magicka is stronger and easier to play.

usmguy1234

itscompton wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

SpiderKnight wrote: »

So many people defend an overpowered, overused skill, might lose their mindless wins if it's nerfed like it should be. No counter to a team full of spamtards going against one person with dizzy.

A weapon skill should never be better than a class‘s spammable yet..BiS for stamden/stamsorc/stamcro/stamplar/stamdk

Interesting 🤔

Good one. Now show us that very class spam on stamsorcs and stamdks. Shall I count the bird as stamden's spam? *** like that only works if you give every class the same toolkit, which in turn would lead to an even bigger loss of class identity. But sure thing, just nerf every weapon skill until my hurricane tickles you to death.

Wtf are you going on about? I was implying that class spam should be better, obv that means stamsorc needs 1 to begin with

But the fact that basically every stam class is running dswing shows that class spams are trash or that dswing is overperforming

I use dswing instead of bird on my stamden

Just one question: if every class skill is better than what weapons have to offer, who would use weapon skills then? Answer is: nobody. That's the reason why not every class has access everything. Arguably, some classes offer less then others but that's a topic worth of it's own.
But I can agree that those with own spams should be on par with generic spams. E.g. Birds are simply bad. But in the U24 preview they teased changes to them especially. But then again, if you make class skills so much better than everything else those classes without access to an equivalent would suffer.

Anyway, everybody and their mother runs soul trap in evey scenario ZOS can offer. Poison Injection, Wall of Elements, Endless Hail, Entropy are on every build, shall we nerf skills these skills too because people use them? That's why skills exist, for people to use them.

When any one of those skills hits hard enough to take a 1/3 of your health in on GCD and stuns you so you can be finished off then you can compare them to Dizzy, otherwise you're just lamely trying to defend an overtuned skill.
And to the white knights saying no on lands it on them, I'm guessing you're on a stam toon with multiple speed amps, try avoiding someone with all those same speed boosts while playing on a Magtemp or MagDK.
Fighting a D swing spammer on my Temp usually consists of me moving in to try to cancel their casts as they circle around trying to get it off. But when someone is moving a lot faster than I can eventually they get the angle and get one in which allows two more skills and an execute to land before I can even try to break free.
ZOS already nerfed the damage or took away the CC from other moves and stated they didn't want high damage and CC combined in one move but somehow decided to not only leave Dizzy but buffed it by reducing it's cast time.

Cries about dizzy but has a grap closer that has offbalance and basically guarantees 10% extra damage against opponents.

Yeah and that gap closer hits for 3-4K against most players vs an 8-9K DS, not to mention the stun can be instantly broken vs DS's which can't. And there is currently a bug which consistently locks me out of casting another skill for a second or two after using Toppling, meaning the stun gets completely wasted.

Sounds like you are playing a really squishy build if you're getting hit by dizzy that hard. I have had no issues with toppling on my magplar. Toppling into sweep is stupid strong right now. Also good luck moving vs all the magplar snares/slows. You can literally run someone out of stam before they get out of your ritual.

Yeah, my build is squishy but the fact I can build full offensive in light armor (42 max mag 3000 SD 15k pen) and barely scratch the health bar of a good stam player in heavy before they can delete me with one DS combo just further serves to illustrate how broken it is. Ps I really wish you were on PS4 so we could duel. You seem to love to question my skill and it would be very satisfying to put you in your place.

So, you just admitted that your build is the issue and somehow took that as a personal attack on your skill level? Interesting. I run a medium build full offensive 5k+ weapon damage 35k stam. I can barely dent heavy players either outside of well executed combos. That being said and I'm sure it's the same for you, I can absolutely delete other medium/light armor players with ease. So, instead of getting yourself in a dither how about focusing on the real crux of why pvp in this game is bad? Protip: if you nuke dizzy to oblivion, it's not going to keep good heavy armor stam players from nuking you... no that would take zos actually balancing the armor weights properly.

thankyourat

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I guess the solution is to have the devs nerf the top 10 most used skills and armor sets every quarter until we end up just light attacking all the time. Suddenly the bad PUG groups will be meta!

ZOS will figure out a way to make the Stamina light attacks 50% stronger and have a stun attached, too. Only tree-circling stam thug pugs will be meta. Mag pugs will be screwed, as usual.

I die to mag more than stam this patch for sure.

I can’t even see how that is possible mag sorc and magblade sustain is so bad that they can’t build enough damage into their build to kill anyone. Magcro and magden don’t have any CC, or execute and have low burst damage so they’ll never kill you either. This leaves 2 mag classes with any sort of killing capabilities. Mag dk is strong but they need to out sustain you to kill you. Magplar is op not much to say on this. Most of the mag classes are struggling hard right now.