When will ZoS update the game difficulty?

Katahdin

Vhozek wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Try the harder content

When I'm already level 50? When the journey is over? Why would I try it at low level if my character wasn't dropped there? Easy content is braindead in this game and harder content is for people using all their resources which only ruins the other easy content by making it even more braindead.

Level 50 is not the end of the journey.
It is a goal along the way.
CP 160 is another goal
Max CP is the end of the "leveling journey", currently 810.

What CP are you? Since you stated that you've deleted every character, are you even CP 160 yet?

Why are you considering 50 to be "the end"? That is a pretty narrow point of view.

There is all the veteran content and achievements along the way. Have you done all HM, no death, speed runs of every dungeon and trial in the game?

Also yes it's an MMO but that does not mean we should have to group for literally every little thing. Look at how popular the original Craglorn was, it was desolate aside from nirncrux farmers. If people has to group up for every damn starter quest, this game would have been dead within the first 6 months.

jainiadral

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

What I'm curious about is (based on the various MMOs I've played) - are there any modern MMOs that have overland content that would be "challenging" for players who know what they're doing?

Some of the fringe indie titles that cater to the hardcore demographic. Saga of Lucimia is one currently in development.

Araneae6537

I think base overland difficulty is fine. (I started the game in July and got my first character to level 50 within the past week.) IMHO, I think CP are the problem — not for me yet, but I see how crazy fast many players take out monsters and mobs and that seems to me it would be boring, especially when I get a character to 50 who doesn’t have half their skill points invested in crafting!

I like the idea behind CP, being able to further customize and specialize your character, but it seems there might be too many combat related perks in every tree (or constellation in this case). I would like to see fewer passives granted and have more CPs for horizontal improvement — like being able to put points directly to improved harvesting, deconstruction, movement speed, loot RNG, etc. I would also really like to further improve my stealth ability (detection rather than stamina use), even if it needed to be restricted to PvE. I think it might be better if one could only choose a limited number of combat improvement options rather than improve damage AND regen AND defense AND crit, etc., etc.

Ardaghion

ErinM31 wrote: »

I think base overland difficulty is fine. (I started the game in July and got my first character to level 50 within the past week.) IMHO, I think CP are the problem — not for me yet, but I see how crazy fast many players take out monsters and mobs and that seems to me it would be boring, especially when I get a character to 50 who doesn’t have half their skill points invested in crafting!

I like the idea behind CP, being able to further customize and specialize your character, but it seems there might be too many combat related perks in every tree (or constellation in this case). I would like to see fewer passives granted and have more CPs for horizontal improvement — like being able to put points directly to improved harvesting, deconstruction, movement speed, loot RNG, etc. I would also really like to further improve my stealth ability (detection rather than stamina use), even if it needed to be restricted to PvE. I think it might be better if one could only choose a limited number of combat improvement options rather than improve damage AND regen AND defense AND crit, etc., etc.

I agree entirely. I started on the NA server, overland content was not a walk in the park for my first character. With mismatched gear, under level skills and very little understanding of the game I avoided even river trolls. At level 35 I went with my partner to kill a world boss, Snap Jaw, we got whomped! Killed in under 30 seconds. We decided to wait. Eventually, closer to level 50, we took on the Wamasu, Trap Jaw and we’re elated that we defeated it, with help from a few others.

My main reached CP 807 recently, all my other characters benefit from this CP, making them seem more powerful than they really are, at least compared to my main when it was new.

I started a few characters on EU not long ago and I can remember what it’s like to start over again. It’s not quite as hard as I have some play experience I lacked originally. But I was in Bal Foyen a few weeks ago with my level 18 character with a level 14 frost staff. I took on a nix-hound with troll level HP, I had forgotten how difficult they can be to kill with the wrong gear and no CP.

Wifeaggro13

Vhozek wrote: »

ESO Classic when?

There was never a classic. There was just more skill and knowledge involved in leveling efficiently. Even in VR 10 @attorneyatlawl was soloing the hardest 4 man content in game. It just required knowledge player skill and thought.

buttaface

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

What I'm curious about is (based on the various MMOs I've played) - are there any modern MMOs that have overland content that would be "challenging" for players who know what they're doing?

There are, but they fail or remain small and fiscally unsustainable. Some you can still play if you want more overland difficulty. Going way back to games I've played over the years that had challenging base content:

Anarchy Online pre Shadowlands - 200 levels to max a character, you could solo up to about level 20 if desired, then would not be progressing in any meaningful way outside of a team. Shadowlands and later introduced mob camps with the standard exp cave grinding for casuals. The game was difficult in several other ways, especially with regard to the need of cooperative buffing to gear up a character and the need for a guild to own and protect stat buffing towers in PvP. The game remained small, and I think is still running. It is graphically primitive, but IMO better than any current mainstream MMO in its core game design. NOT for the average WoW/FF/ESO casual MMO gamer today, or maybe it has become more accommodating of casual play over the years. A smart gamer who values substance over style might enjoy this today.

Shadowbane - Difficulty comes not from mobs but from the fact that once you left the small starter areas, 99% of the world was FULL INVENTORY DROP PvP. Player asset control PvP was satisfying and brutal, because rival guilds could destroy your guild's hard work and you could destroy theirs. Had the misfortune of coming out just before WoW and console hybrids dumbed down PC games, and officially defunct. Still has a very devoted fanbase that runs an emulator of the game in seasons. NOT for the average casual MMO gamer of today.

Age Of Conan - IMO better than ESO in nearly every way than graphically (but came out 5 years pre ESO), but no Skyrim IP to crutch on and bit off too much too ambitiously in a launch full of bugs, horrific performance, cataclysmic game changing and rampant exploits. Overland nowhere near as tough as AO or Shadowbane, but tougher than ESO.

Global Agenda - Full parkour and aim, which put it above WoW/ESO games out of the gate. Best PvE content in any MMO like game IMO, but made lots of mistakes in design, had a weak studio that didn't/couldn't fix the game, no IP to crutch on, and so canned it relatively quickly. A PvP game with PvE available rather than the opposite mainstay model. Defunct, RIP, could have been one of the greats.

Fallen Earth - Full aim, instantly putting it above ESO in the "skill ceiling" category. Tougher overland mobs and quest mobs than ESO but still soloable. Weak indie studio made some crucial errors, could have been a huge hit, I think it's still running but a ghost town.

TLDR? Harder MMOs don't do well in the Walmart mass market/Console Hybrid competitive market. In the future, I expect a resurgence of harder games, but still a few years off.

There are others, but those are the ones I'm most familiar with.

GhostofDatthaw

I might actually quest if it was a little harder. Also, to that point, I hear people saying stuff like this "I am thinking some feel overland should play like their single player game." And although I do agree with the basic idea of this. I disagree about the difficulty portion. Just look at wow classic again. The quests are harder and many of them you actually need to group to complete them. Imo I feel a harder overland lead to more cooperation between players and leads to a better MMO experience. You have no reason to group up ever in the thousands of quests. Makes it play like a single player game and not a mmo.

Chicharron

The only problem I see is that in ZOS mind more difficulty is equal to more HP and more Damage, and that is stupid, the only thing that is achieved is that the fight lasts longer and it becomes boring.

Jhalin

buttaface wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

"iF yOu waNt cHalEnGE pLaY rPg"

Crazycaps text is apparently now a cliche'd catchall for any argument someone can't answer other than emotionally. Irony.

For new players starting out with mismatched gear and no sets, little knowledge and experience of the combat and base stats system, one bar of skills that are not leveled, the content is just like average difficulty in many games, no more no less. Working as intended. These games aren't supposed to be a "challenging task," but a rather mindless diversion from those, a notch or two up from watching television.

If you want more challenge in your life, seek it elsewhere than the bottom rung of content in video games that is designed for pretty much anyone who can boot up the game to complete.

Watch the video. That character had no skill points invested, no cp invested, no stat points invested, junk gear, and no food, and still took basically zero damage.

Someone calculated the dps output of an “epic” giant, and it came out to something like 200dps. That’s pathetic.

Malmai

Try VMA.

Vhozek

Why are people offering end game content for challenging content? Low level characters have no experience therefore everything should be challenging to them for some time. "B-but is too hard!" Well b-but is MMO, group up. You always tell us this is an MMO when we ask for challenging solo content. Also, don't act as if you're actually playing an MMO cause all you group for is one or two WB as a two person group.

Linaleah

Bryath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I tend to not look at overland trash for my challenge. Being every MMORPG I have played in the past decade the difficulty came in tiers based on content. Overland, Dungeons, raids. Often multiple difficulties in dungeons and raids. I am thinking some feel overland should play like their single player game. idk.

No single player game I've ever played is as easy as ESO overland. Well, maybe a CIV type game on easiest settings, but nothing action-oriented that I've played has provided so little resistance, even on easy mode.

I.. highly doubt it. unless you haven't played a lot of single player games and/or looking back with rose tinted sunglasses. cause i have played a LOT of single player games and ESO overland? is about on par with easy mode in most of them.. well.. once you get some CP etc. starting out in ESO on a new character without knowledge or understanding of the game, feels a LOT like playing original secret world. you know, the one where you also had immediate acess to every skill system in a game, which meant you could very easily mess up, invest points into wrong things and then get stuck in starting area, cause you couldn't progress your story quests. but if/when you understood the game - the near impossible encounters because pushovers.

single player games i have played on easy mode? felt easy all the way through, becasue unlike ESO - those games actualy bothered easing you into game systems, teaching you little by little how to play them. I mean... because it inevitable comes up - Skyrim. and, for that matter Morrowind, the original, or Oblivion. on easy mode? they were easier to get started with and to get through, then ESO. so please.

would it be nice if vet overland zones were added? yes. if only to stop these threads and to give people who genuinely want some questing challenge - the challenge they want. but please. stop saying that this game is too easy, compared to single player easy modes. no. no its not. once you understand it - its about on par, and before you understand it - its harder, becasue tutorial is tiny, barely teaches you anything, and then throws you into the deep end to sink or swim.

P.S. 1. games that are harder for everyone - historically do not do well. they are niche games. to bring up the dreaded world of warcraft, for all the raving about classic, - the reason, the MAIN reason WoW became big, was because it was the first, genuinely casual friendly EASY MMO.
2. easy modes existed in video games from their very inception.
3. speaking of dlc dungeons, they really could use some serious tuning on normal as their difficulty is not only all over the place, but every single once of those has at least one boss that feels significantly harder then the rest of the place, and it can be particularly annoying when that boss is further into the place, IMO. especially if they are going to try to keep selling them as part of overreaching yearly story. before flames come out of your heads. NORMAL. i'm talking about NORMAL. leave vet as is.

MehrunesFlagon

Linaleah wrote: »

Bryath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I tend to not look at overland trash for my challenge. Being every MMORPG I have played in the past decade the difficulty came in tiers based on content. Overland, Dungeons, raids. Often multiple difficulties in dungeons and raids. I am thinking some feel overland should play like their single player game. idk.

No single player game I've ever played is as easy as ESO overland. Well, maybe a CIV type game on easiest settings, but nothing action-oriented that I've played has provided so little resistance, even on easy mode.

I.. highly doubt it. unless you haven't played a lot of single player games and/or looking back with rose tinted sunglasses. cause i have played a LOT of single player games and ESO overland? is about on par with easy mode in most of them.. well.. once you get some CP etc. starting out in ESO on a new character without knowledge or understanding of the game, feels a LOT like playing original secret world. you know, the one where you also had immediate acess to every skill system in a game, which meant you could very easily mess up, invest points into wrong things and then get stuck in starting area, cause you couldn't progress your story quests. but if/when you understood the game - the near impossible encounters because pushovers.

single player games i have played on easy mode? felt easy all the way through, becasue unlike ESO - those games actualy bothered easing you into game systems, teaching you little by little how to play them. I mean... because it inevitable comes up - Skyrim. and, for that matter Morrowind, the original, or Oblivion. on easy mode? they were easier to get started with and to get through, then ESO. so please.

would it be nice if vet overland zones were added? yes. if only to stop these threads and to give people who genuinely want some questing challenge - the challenge they want. but please. stop saying that this game is too easy, compared to single player easy modes. no. no its not. once you understand it - its about on par, and before you understand it - its harder, becasue tutorial is tiny, barely teaches you anything, and then throws you into the deep end to sink or swim.

P.S. 1. games that are harder for everyone - historically do not do well. they are niche games. to bring up the dreaded world of warcraft, for all the raving about classic, - the reason, the MAIN reason WoW became big, was because it was the first, genuinely casual friendly EASY MMO.
2. easy modes existed in video games from their very inception.
3. speaking of dlc dungeons, they really could use some serious tuning on normal as their difficulty is not only all over the place, but every single once of those has at least one boss that feels significantly harder then the rest of the place, and it can be particularly annoying when that boss is further into the place, IMO. especially if they are going to try to keep selling them as part of overreaching yearly story. before flames come out of your heads. NORMAL. i'm talking about NORMAL. leave vet as is.

Being casual friendly doesn't mean that the difficulty should be in the sub-basement.I honestly don't believe anyone proposing difficulty increases desires to see the difficulty radically increase.

Linaleah

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bryath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I tend to not look at overland trash for my challenge. Being every MMORPG I have played in the past decade the difficulty came in tiers based on content. Overland, Dungeons, raids. Often multiple difficulties in dungeons and raids. I am thinking some feel overland should play like their single player game. idk.

No single player game I've ever played is as easy as ESO overland. Well, maybe a CIV type game on easiest settings, but nothing action-oriented that I've played has provided so little resistance, even on easy mode.

I.. highly doubt it. unless you haven't played a lot of single player games and/or looking back with rose tinted sunglasses. cause i have played a LOT of single player games and ESO overland? is about on par with easy mode in most of them.. well.. once you get some CP etc. starting out in ESO on a new character without knowledge or understanding of the game, feels a LOT like playing original secret world. you know, the one where you also had immediate acess to every skill system in a game, which meant you could very easily mess up, invest points into wrong things and then get stuck in starting area, cause you couldn't progress your story quests. but if/when you understood the game - the near impossible encounters because pushovers.

single player games i have played on easy mode? felt easy all the way through, becasue unlike ESO - those games actualy bothered easing you into game systems, teaching you little by little how to play them. I mean... because it inevitable comes up - Skyrim. and, for that matter Morrowind, the original, or Oblivion. on easy mode? they were easier to get started with and to get through, then ESO. so please.

would it be nice if vet overland zones were added? yes. if only to stop these threads and to give people who genuinely want some questing challenge - the challenge they want. but please. stop saying that this game is too easy, compared to single player easy modes. no. no its not. once you understand it - its about on par, and before you understand it - its harder, becasue tutorial is tiny, barely teaches you anything, and then throws you into the deep end to sink or swim.

P.S. 1. games that are harder for everyone - historically do not do well. they are niche games. to bring up the dreaded world of warcraft, for all the raving about classic, - the reason, the MAIN reason WoW became big, was because it was the first, genuinely casual friendly EASY MMO.
2. easy modes existed in video games from their very inception.
3. speaking of dlc dungeons, they really could use some serious tuning on normal as their difficulty is not only all over the place, but every single once of those has at least one boss that feels significantly harder then the rest of the place, and it can be particularly annoying when that boss is further into the place, IMO. especially if they are going to try to keep selling them as part of overreaching yearly story. before flames come out of your heads. NORMAL. i'm talking about NORMAL. leave vet as is.

Being casual friendly doesn't mean that the difficulty should be in the sub-basement.I honestly don't believe anyone proposing difficulty increases desires to see the difficulty radically increase.

new. players. still. struggle. a LOT.

many not new players, ENJOY THE EASY RELAXING MODE THAT OVERLAND IS IN RIGHT NOW.

the only, ONLY solution here that is a doable compromise - is vet zones. current overworld difficulty should NOT be touched, though tutorials really need to be look at again, because even with leveling adviser, they are an unholy mess. one of the major issues this game has is how absolutely, utterly AWFUL it is at explaining itself. you pretty much have to go to outside guides, unless you are a gaming savant of some sort.

and as i have said, current overworld difficulty is on par with easy mode difficulty in most single player games that have difficulty selection. in fact, its actualy harder then narrative difficulty some games have been adding recently.

MLGProPlayer

BlueRaven wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Overland content is fine. It is designed so that a new player with one or two spells and no CP can kill them.

If you load up a new character with CP the game becomes trivial, obviously.

If you need a challenge there is always vMA, enjoy it. But don't impose vMA type difficulty on new players unless you are looking to destroy your game.

vMA is one piece of content that you can complete in under an hour.

Overland is over 400 hours of content.

There is absolutely a lack of challenging content.

Then petition for more vMA style dungeons. Don't break the base game.

I help run a "are you new to ESO, here is how the game works" monthly workshop in one of my guilds. And there is a TON of people who join this game every month who don't understand the basic mechanics of the game. One level 16 was trying to a get a HoF group together with other level 20's and no healer or tank. I had to spend an hour going over what the different content means.

This person would never have made it to level 16 under the difficulty you are describing. If you want less players playing that's fine, but that is not in the games best interest. Don't "Wildstar" the game please.

I'm not asking for a change to the game's difficulty. I'm asking for an optional player debuff so that veteran players can enjoy game too, not just new ones. We are customers too. We also pay for new expansions.

idk

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

What I'm curious about is (based on the various MMOs I've played) - are there any modern MMOs that have overland content that would be "challenging" for players who know what they're doing?

I do not think there is any major title that does. Major titles are interested in masses which is why they have tiered difficulty with different types of activities.

MehrunesFlagon

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bryath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I tend to not look at overland trash for my challenge. Being every MMORPG I have played in the past decade the difficulty came in tiers based on content. Overland, Dungeons, raids. Often multiple difficulties in dungeons and raids. I am thinking some feel overland should play like their single player game. idk.

No single player game I've ever played is as easy as ESO overland. Well, maybe a CIV type game on easiest settings, but nothing action-oriented that I've played has provided so little resistance, even on easy mode.

I.. highly doubt it. unless you haven't played a lot of single player games and/or looking back with rose tinted sunglasses. cause i have played a LOT of single player games and ESO overland? is about on par with easy mode in most of them.. well.. once you get some CP etc. starting out in ESO on a new character without knowledge or understanding of the game, feels a LOT like playing original secret world. you know, the one where you also had immediate acess to every skill system in a game, which meant you could very easily mess up, invest points into wrong things and then get stuck in starting area, cause you couldn't progress your story quests. but if/when you understood the game - the near impossible encounters because pushovers.

single player games i have played on easy mode? felt easy all the way through, becasue unlike ESO - those games actualy bothered easing you into game systems, teaching you little by little how to play them. I mean... because it inevitable comes up - Skyrim. and, for that matter Morrowind, the original, or Oblivion. on easy mode? they were easier to get started with and to get through, then ESO. so please.

would it be nice if vet overland zones were added? yes. if only to stop these threads and to give people who genuinely want some questing challenge - the challenge they want. but please. stop saying that this game is too easy, compared to single player easy modes. no. no its not. once you understand it - its about on par, and before you understand it - its harder, becasue tutorial is tiny, barely teaches you anything, and then throws you into the deep end to sink or swim.

P.S. 1. games that are harder for everyone - historically do not do well. they are niche games. to bring up the dreaded world of warcraft, for all the raving about classic, - the reason, the MAIN reason WoW became big, was because it was the first, genuinely casual friendly EASY MMO.
2. easy modes existed in video games from their very inception.
3. speaking of dlc dungeons, they really could use some serious tuning on normal as their difficulty is not only all over the place, but every single once of those has at least one boss that feels significantly harder then the rest of the place, and it can be particularly annoying when that boss is further into the place, IMO. especially if they are going to try to keep selling them as part of overreaching yearly story. before flames come out of your heads. NORMAL. i'm talking about NORMAL. leave vet as is.

Being casual friendly doesn't mean that the difficulty should be in the sub-basement.I honestly don't believe anyone proposing difficulty increases desires to see the difficulty radically increase.

new. players. still. struggle. a LOT.

many not new players, ENJOY THE EASY RELAXING MODE THAT OVERLAND IS IN RIGHT NOW.

the only, ONLY solution here that is a doable compromise - is vet zones. current overworld difficulty should NOT be touched, though tutorials really need to be look at again, because even with leveling adviser, they are an unholy mess. one of the major issues this game has is how absolutely, utterly AWFUL it is at explaining itself. you pretty much have to go to outside guides, unless you are a gaming savant of some sort.

and as i have said, current overworld difficulty is on par with easy mode difficulty in most single player games that have difficulty selection. in fact, its actualy harder then narrative difficulty some games have been adding recently.

That still does not mean that the difficulty should be so easy a blind person could play it.OP's video illustrates that perfectly well.No cp mindlessly,light attacking, and no significant damage to him.What about this looks like it would even remotely challenge anyone?Seems like you would have to be asleep for that add to kill you too.

jainiadral

Just a reminder: NOT EVERYONE IS AS GUD AS YOU ARE

Lord-Otto

Just use lvl 1 armor and weapons. Should be challenging enough. If you're asking for endgame difficulty to be forced on every player in leveling/questing areas, well, that's a surefire way to make sure no new players come to this game.

MehrunesFlagon

jainiadral wrote: »

Just a reminder: NOT EVERYONE IS AS GUD AS YOU ARE

That is noted,however the video is hard to refute.

jainiadral

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Just a reminder: NOT EVERYONE IS AS GUD AS YOU ARE

That is noted,however the video is hard to refute.

A video of someone else playing. That speaks to absolutely zero of my personal experience or anyone else's besides the OP. You can't have empirical proof of someone else's play experience unless they record themselves too. You need several videos of several someones fighting the same beastie to even begin to detect a pattern and extrapolate it to the game as a whole. One video doesn't qualify as data.

Linaleah

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bryath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I tend to not look at overland trash for my challenge. Being every MMORPG I have played in the past decade the difficulty came in tiers based on content. Overland, Dungeons, raids. Often multiple difficulties in dungeons and raids. I am thinking some feel overland should play like their single player game. idk.

No single player game I've ever played is as easy as ESO overland. Well, maybe a CIV type game on easiest settings, but nothing action-oriented that I've played has provided so little resistance, even on easy mode.

I.. highly doubt it. unless you haven't played a lot of single player games and/or looking back with rose tinted sunglasses. cause i have played a LOT of single player games and ESO overland? is about on par with easy mode in most of them.. well.. once you get some CP etc. starting out in ESO on a new character without knowledge or understanding of the game, feels a LOT like playing original secret world. you know, the one where you also had immediate acess to every skill system in a game, which meant you could very easily mess up, invest points into wrong things and then get stuck in starting area, cause you couldn't progress your story quests. but if/when you understood the game - the near impossible encounters because pushovers.

single player games i have played on easy mode? felt easy all the way through, becasue unlike ESO - those games actualy bothered easing you into game systems, teaching you little by little how to play them. I mean... because it inevitable comes up - Skyrim. and, for that matter Morrowind, the original, or Oblivion. on easy mode? they were easier to get started with and to get through, then ESO. so please.

would it be nice if vet overland zones were added? yes. if only to stop these threads and to give people who genuinely want some questing challenge - the challenge they want. but please. stop saying that this game is too easy, compared to single player easy modes. no. no its not. once you understand it - its about on par, and before you understand it - its harder, becasue tutorial is tiny, barely teaches you anything, and then throws you into the deep end to sink or swim.

P.S. 1. games that are harder for everyone - historically do not do well. they are niche games. to bring up the dreaded world of warcraft, for all the raving about classic, - the reason, the MAIN reason WoW became big, was because it was the first, genuinely casual friendly EASY MMO.
2. easy modes existed in video games from their very inception.
3. speaking of dlc dungeons, they really could use some serious tuning on normal as their difficulty is not only all over the place, but every single once of those has at least one boss that feels significantly harder then the rest of the place, and it can be particularly annoying when that boss is further into the place, IMO. especially if they are going to try to keep selling them as part of overreaching yearly story. before flames come out of your heads. NORMAL. i'm talking about NORMAL. leave vet as is.

Being casual friendly doesn't mean that the difficulty should be in the sub-basement.I honestly don't believe anyone proposing difficulty increases desires to see the difficulty radically increase.

new. players. still. struggle. a LOT.

many not new players, ENJOY THE EASY RELAXING MODE THAT OVERLAND IS IN RIGHT NOW.

the only, ONLY solution here that is a doable compromise - is vet zones. current overworld difficulty should NOT be touched, though tutorials really need to be look at again, because even with leveling adviser, they are an unholy mess. one of the major issues this game has is how absolutely, utterly AWFUL it is at explaining itself. you pretty much have to go to outside guides, unless you are a gaming savant of some sort.

and as i have said, current overworld difficulty is on par with easy mode difficulty in most single player games that have difficulty selection. in fact, its actualy harder then narrative difficulty some games have been adding recently.

That still does not mean that the difficulty should be so easy a blind person could play it.OP's video illustrates that perfectly well.No cp mindlessly,light attacking, and no significant damage to him.What about this looks like it would even remotely challenge anyone?Seems like you would have to be asleep for that add to kill you too.

what it looks like is selective cheesing to make a point. OP picked a single mob out of the type of mobs that generally tend to attack in groups - if I'm not mistaken, that is alik's desert, aka one of the earlier zones in a story and as such, still easier then later story zones, becasue it tends to be populated by lower level character. and the mob in question is in the area just off the side of sentinel. and... its a TRASH mob. trash mobs are supposed to be trash.

moreover... isn't it interesting how I cannot actualy see what level OP's character is, what kind of armor they are wearing, whether they are using food, what enchant is on their daggers, whether they are gold, or purple or lower.... their healthbar doesn't have any numbers on it, and they very conveniently edited out all the rest of the UI.

fascinating. so illustrative of average experience of a player trying to deal with their story quest bosses or delve bosses or anything like that....

/eyeroll

Linaleah

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Just a reminder: NOT EVERYONE IS AS GUD AS YOU ARE

That is noted,however the video is hard to refute.

I just did

kargen27

I don't much care about the difficulty of the overland mobs. I liked it more when they were tougher but 18 characters in I don't expect them to cause much of a problem. When I do quests now it is for the story.

I would like to see a choice when getting to the final boss in a line though. Kind of silly that you have a big build up going through the entire story (main, guild or otherwise) and at the end the boss fight lasts a few seconds. It is a solo instance anyway so would be nice for the player to have a choice to go through as is now or have the boss slap them silly for a while and have to consider a mechanic or two during the fight.

I understand the reluctance to increase difficulty in overland stuff. Doing it in solo instances might be fun though.

I also think they should introduce food and potions that will severely limit our abilities so if we want overland to be tough we just eat some tainted pork and off we go.

MehrunesFlagon

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Just a reminder: NOT EVERYONE IS AS GUD AS YOU ARE

That is noted,however the video is hard to refute.

I just did

No you didn't.It clearly shows with the most basic attacks,no cp,etc.... that the overland content is far too easy.

Linaleah

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Just a reminder: NOT EVERYONE IS AS GUD AS YOU ARE

That is noted,however the video is hard to refute.

I just did

No you didn't.It clearly shows with the most basic attacks,no cp,etc.... that the overland content is far too easy.

you cannot tell ANYTHING in that video. did that goblin jump away or were they pushed. you can barely see what they are doing, because, again conveniently - they are playing in first person, hiding most animations, along with hiding UI. it also REALLY makes a difference what gear and weapons you are using and whether you have food buff on. which video conveniently hides. last but not least. its. a TRASH. mob. of the sort of trash that attacks in groups. why do you insist that trash is supposed to drag on?

this video proves nothing outside of OP willing to fudge their "demonstration"

Vhozek

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bryath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I tend to not look at overland trash for my challenge. Being every MMORPG I have played in the past decade the difficulty came in tiers based on content. Overland, Dungeons, raids. Often multiple difficulties in dungeons and raids. I am thinking some feel overland should play like their single player game. idk.

No single player game I've ever played is as easy as ESO overland. Well, maybe a CIV type game on easiest settings, but nothing action-oriented that I've played has provided so little resistance, even on easy mode.

I.. highly doubt it. unless you haven't played a lot of single player games and/or looking back with rose tinted sunglasses. cause i have played a LOT of single player games and ESO overland? is about on par with easy mode in most of them.. well.. once you get some CP etc. starting out in ESO on a new character without knowledge or understanding of the game, feels a LOT like playing original secret world. you know, the one where you also had immediate acess to every skill system in a game, which meant you could very easily mess up, invest points into wrong things and then get stuck in starting area, cause you couldn't progress your story quests. but if/when you understood the game - the near impossible encounters because pushovers.

single player games i have played on easy mode? felt easy all the way through, becasue unlike ESO - those games actualy bothered easing you into game systems, teaching you little by little how to play them. I mean... because it inevitable comes up - Skyrim. and, for that matter Morrowind, the original, or Oblivion. on easy mode? they were easier to get started with and to get through, then ESO. so please.

would it be nice if vet overland zones were added? yes. if only to stop these threads and to give people who genuinely want some questing challenge - the challenge they want. but please. stop saying that this game is too easy, compared to single player easy modes. no. no its not. once you understand it - its about on par, and before you understand it - its harder, becasue tutorial is tiny, barely teaches you anything, and then throws you into the deep end to sink or swim.

P.S. 1. games that are harder for everyone - historically do not do well. they are niche games. to bring up the dreaded world of warcraft, for all the raving about classic, - the reason, the MAIN reason WoW became big, was because it was the first, genuinely casual friendly EASY MMO.
2. easy modes existed in video games from their very inception.
3. speaking of dlc dungeons, they really could use some serious tuning on normal as their difficulty is not only all over the place, but every single once of those has at least one boss that feels significantly harder then the rest of the place, and it can be particularly annoying when that boss is further into the place, IMO. especially if they are going to try to keep selling them as part of overreaching yearly story. before flames come out of your heads. NORMAL. i'm talking about NORMAL. leave vet as is.

Being casual friendly doesn't mean that the difficulty should be in the sub-basement.I honestly don't believe anyone proposing difficulty increases desires to see the difficulty radically increase.

new. players. still. struggle. a LOT.

many not new players, ENJOY THE EASY RELAXING MODE THAT OVERLAND IS IN RIGHT NOW.

the only, ONLY solution here that is a doable compromise - is vet zones. current overworld difficulty should NOT be touched, though tutorials really need to be look at again, because even with leveling adviser, they are an unholy mess. one of the major issues this game has is how absolutely, utterly AWFUL it is at explaining itself. you pretty much have to go to outside guides, unless you are a gaming savant of some sort.

and as i have said, current overworld difficulty is on par with easy mode difficulty in most single player games that have difficulty selection. in fact, its actualy harder then narrative difficulty some games have been adding recently.

That still does not mean that the difficulty should be so easy a blind person could play it.OP's video illustrates that perfectly well.No cp mindlessly,light attacking, and no significant damage to him.What about this looks like it would even remotely challenge anyone?Seems like you would have to be asleep for that add to kill you too.

what it looks like is selective cheesing to make a point. OP picked a single mob out of the type of mobs that generally tend to attack in groups - if I'm not mistaken, that is alik's desert, aka one of the earlier zones in a story and as such, still easier then later story zones, becasue it tends to be populated by lower level character. and the mob in question is in the area just off the side of sentinel. and... its a TRASH mob. trash mobs are supposed to be trash.

moreover... isn't it interesting how I cannot actualy see what level OP's character is, what kind of armor they are wearing, whether they are using food, what enchant is on their daggers, whether they are gold, or purple or lower.... their healthbar doesn't have any numbers on it, and they very conveniently edited out all the rest of the UI.

fascinating. so illustrative of average experience of a player trying to deal with their story quest bosses or delve bosses or anything like that....

/eyeroll

Thats a level 4 character with no cp, random unenchanted non-set armor pieces I stole from racks that are level 2, not using food, no buffs, crafted level 1 imperial dagger, and I showed I put no stat points anywhere nor any skills

Vhozek

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

Just a reminder: NOT EVERYONE IS AS GUD AS YOU ARE

That is noted,however the video is hard to refute.

I just did

No you didn't.It clearly shows with the most basic attacks,no cp,etc.... that the overland content is far too easy.

you cannot tell ANYTHING in that video. did that goblin jump away or were they pushed. you can barely see what they are doing, because, again conveniently - they are playing in first person, hiding most animations, along with hiding UI. it also REALLY makes a difference what gear and weapons you are using and whether you have food buff on. which video conveniently hides. last but not least. its. a TRASH. mob. of the sort of trash that attacks in groups. why do you insist that trash is supposed to drag on?

this video proves nothing outside of OP willing to fudge their "demonstration"

Wow.

Linaleah

Vhozek wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bryath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I tend to not look at overland trash for my challenge. Being every MMORPG I have played in the past decade the difficulty came in tiers based on content. Overland, Dungeons, raids. Often multiple difficulties in dungeons and raids. I am thinking some feel overland should play like their single player game. idk.

No single player game I've ever played is as easy as ESO overland. Well, maybe a CIV type game on easiest settings, but nothing action-oriented that I've played has provided so little resistance, even on easy mode.

I.. highly doubt it. unless you haven't played a lot of single player games and/or looking back with rose tinted sunglasses. cause i have played a LOT of single player games and ESO overland? is about on par with easy mode in most of them.. well.. once you get some CP etc. starting out in ESO on a new character without knowledge or understanding of the game, feels a LOT like playing original secret world. you know, the one where you also had immediate acess to every skill system in a game, which meant you could very easily mess up, invest points into wrong things and then get stuck in starting area, cause you couldn't progress your story quests. but if/when you understood the game - the near impossible encounters because pushovers.

single player games i have played on easy mode? felt easy all the way through, becasue unlike ESO - those games actualy bothered easing you into game systems, teaching you little by little how to play them. I mean... because it inevitable comes up - Skyrim. and, for that matter Morrowind, the original, or Oblivion. on easy mode? they were easier to get started with and to get through, then ESO. so please.

would it be nice if vet overland zones were added? yes. if only to stop these threads and to give people who genuinely want some questing challenge - the challenge they want. but please. stop saying that this game is too easy, compared to single player easy modes. no. no its not. once you understand it - its about on par, and before you understand it - its harder, becasue tutorial is tiny, barely teaches you anything, and then throws you into the deep end to sink or swim.

P.S. 1. games that are harder for everyone - historically do not do well. they are niche games. to bring up the dreaded world of warcraft, for all the raving about classic, - the reason, the MAIN reason WoW became big, was because it was the first, genuinely casual friendly EASY MMO.
2. easy modes existed in video games from their very inception.
3. speaking of dlc dungeons, they really could use some serious tuning on normal as their difficulty is not only all over the place, but every single once of those has at least one boss that feels significantly harder then the rest of the place, and it can be particularly annoying when that boss is further into the place, IMO. especially if they are going to try to keep selling them as part of overreaching yearly story. before flames come out of your heads. NORMAL. i'm talking about NORMAL. leave vet as is.

Being casual friendly doesn't mean that the difficulty should be in the sub-basement.I honestly don't believe anyone proposing difficulty increases desires to see the difficulty radically increase.

new. players. still. struggle. a LOT.

many not new players, ENJOY THE EASY RELAXING MODE THAT OVERLAND IS IN RIGHT NOW.

the only, ONLY solution here that is a doable compromise - is vet zones. current overworld difficulty should NOT be touched, though tutorials really need to be look at again, because even with leveling adviser, they are an unholy mess. one of the major issues this game has is how absolutely, utterly AWFUL it is at explaining itself. you pretty much have to go to outside guides, unless you are a gaming savant of some sort.

and as i have said, current overworld difficulty is on par with easy mode difficulty in most single player games that have difficulty selection. in fact, its actualy harder then narrative difficulty some games have been adding recently.

That still does not mean that the difficulty should be so easy a blind person could play it.OP's video illustrates that perfectly well.No cp mindlessly,light attacking, and no significant damage to him.What about this looks like it would even remotely challenge anyone?Seems like you would have to be asleep for that add to kill you too.

what it looks like is selective cheesing to make a point. OP picked a single mob out of the type of mobs that generally tend to attack in groups - if I'm not mistaken, that is alik's desert, aka one of the earlier zones in a story and as such, still easier then later story zones, becasue it tends to be populated by lower level character. and the mob in question is in the area just off the side of sentinel. and... its a TRASH mob. trash mobs are supposed to be trash.

moreover... isn't it interesting how I cannot actualy see what level OP's character is, what kind of armor they are wearing, whether they are using food, what enchant is on their daggers, whether they are gold, or purple or lower.... their healthbar doesn't have any numbers on it, and they very conveniently edited out all the rest of the UI.

fascinating. so illustrative of average experience of a player trying to deal with their story quest bosses or delve bosses or anything like that....

/eyeroll

Thats a level 4 character with no cp, random unenchanted non-set armor pieces I stole from racks that are level 2, not using food, no buffs, crafted level 1 imperial dagger, and I showed I put no stat points anywhere nor any skills

and I'm supposed to just take your word for it?

ok then

and even assuming that you ARE telling the truth (why hide UI, btw), lvl 4 characters have extra buffs on them to compensate for the lack of ..well everything else, the moment you start leveling up, and the game scaling starts gradually dropping off... experience changes. around lvl 12 or so is where it starts getting rougher on a new player.

Vhozek

Linaleah wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bryath wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I tend to not look at overland trash for my challenge. Being every MMORPG I have played in the past decade the difficulty came in tiers based on content. Overland, Dungeons, raids. Often multiple difficulties in dungeons and raids. I am thinking some feel overland should play like their single player game. idk.

No single player game I've ever played is as easy as ESO overland. Well, maybe a CIV type game on easiest settings, but nothing action-oriented that I've played has provided so little resistance, even on easy mode.

I.. highly doubt it. unless you haven't played a lot of single player games and/or looking back with rose tinted sunglasses. cause i have played a LOT of single player games and ESO overland? is about on par with easy mode in most of them.. well.. once you get some CP etc. starting out in ESO on a new character without knowledge or understanding of the game, feels a LOT like playing original secret world. you know, the one where you also had immediate acess to every skill system in a game, which meant you could very easily mess up, invest points into wrong things and then get stuck in starting area, cause you couldn't progress your story quests. but if/when you understood the game - the near impossible encounters because pushovers.

single player games i have played on easy mode? felt easy all the way through, becasue unlike ESO - those games actualy bothered easing you into game systems, teaching you little by little how to play them. I mean... because it inevitable comes up - Skyrim. and, for that matter Morrowind, the original, or Oblivion. on easy mode? they were easier to get started with and to get through, then ESO. so please.

would it be nice if vet overland zones were added? yes. if only to stop these threads and to give people who genuinely want some questing challenge - the challenge they want. but please. stop saying that this game is too easy, compared to single player easy modes. no. no its not. once you understand it - its about on par, and before you understand it - its harder, becasue tutorial is tiny, barely teaches you anything, and then throws you into the deep end to sink or swim.

P.S. 1. games that are harder for everyone - historically do not do well. they are niche games. to bring up the dreaded world of warcraft, for all the raving about classic, - the reason, the MAIN reason WoW became big, was because it was the first, genuinely casual friendly EASY MMO.
2. easy modes existed in video games from their very inception.
3. speaking of dlc dungeons, they really could use some serious tuning on normal as their difficulty is not only all over the place, but every single once of those has at least one boss that feels significantly harder then the rest of the place, and it can be particularly annoying when that boss is further into the place, IMO. especially if they are going to try to keep selling them as part of overreaching yearly story. before flames come out of your heads. NORMAL. i'm talking about NORMAL. leave vet as is.

Being casual friendly doesn't mean that the difficulty should be in the sub-basement.I honestly don't believe anyone proposing difficulty increases desires to see the difficulty radically increase.

new. players. still. struggle. a LOT.

many not new players, ENJOY THE EASY RELAXING MODE THAT OVERLAND IS IN RIGHT NOW.

the only, ONLY solution here that is a doable compromise - is vet zones. current overworld difficulty should NOT be touched, though tutorials really need to be look at again, because even with leveling adviser, they are an unholy mess. one of the major issues this game has is how absolutely, utterly AWFUL it is at explaining itself. you pretty much have to go to outside guides, unless you are a gaming savant of some sort.

and as i have said, current overworld difficulty is on par with easy mode difficulty in most single player games that have difficulty selection. in fact, its actualy harder then narrative difficulty some games have been adding recently.

That still does not mean that the difficulty should be so easy a blind person could play it.OP's video illustrates that perfectly well.No cp mindlessly,light attacking, and no significant damage to him.What about this looks like it would even remotely challenge anyone?Seems like you would have to be asleep for that add to kill you too.

what it looks like is selective cheesing to make a point. OP picked a single mob out of the type of mobs that generally tend to attack in groups - if I'm not mistaken, that is alik's desert, aka one of the earlier zones in a story and as such, still easier then later story zones, becasue it tends to be populated by lower level character. and the mob in question is in the area just off the side of sentinel. and... its a TRASH mob. trash mobs are supposed to be trash.

moreover... isn't it interesting how I cannot actualy see what level OP's character is, what kind of armor they are wearing, whether they are using food, what enchant is on their daggers, whether they are gold, or purple or lower.... their healthbar doesn't have any numbers on it, and they very conveniently edited out all the rest of the UI.

fascinating. so illustrative of average experience of a player trying to deal with their story quest bosses or delve bosses or anything like that....

/eyeroll

Thats a level 4 character with no cp, random unenchanted non-set armor pieces I stole from racks that are level 2, not using food, no buffs, crafted level 1 imperial dagger, and I showed I put no stat points anywhere nor any skills

and I'm supposed to just take your word for it?

ok then

and even assuming that you ARE telling the truth (why hide UI, btw), lvl 4 characters have extra buffs on them to compensate for the lack of ..well everything else, the moment you start leveling up, and the game scaling starts gradually dropping off... experience changes. around lvl 12 or so is where it starts getting rougher on a new player.

You could watch the video. I hid the compass with a mod because I don't like the compass. The rest of the UI doesn't show up because I have no skills.