Blackheart Haven - can it be soloed (without WW)? YES IT CAN! Even on Vet!

Major_Lag

EDIT: I was able to figure out the trick to soloing this fight without resorting to WW form. CLICK HERE to jump to the relevant post.

EDIT 2: Some time after my successful soloing of BH on Normal, @StytchFingal has managed to solo it on Vet difficulty (albeit with a somewhat different gear setup). Click the link to see his attempt.

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This is something that got me thinking. Can Cap'n Blackheart be soloed with a big serving of cheese? (but no werewolves, please!)

With any "normal" solo build, Blackheart Haven is non-soloable even on normal difficulty, because of mechanics on the final boss.
This makes the player unable to use any abilites, in fact it clears all abilities off the bars (thus desummoning Sorc pets). No selfheal means certain death...
...or does it?

To try this out, I went on the PTS and put together an HP regen stacked build that does NOT rely on any abilities in any way. So monster sets such as Troll King, Engine Guardian, etc. are out of the question.
I went with Alessian + Fortified Brass + Mighty Chudan. HP regen enchants on infused jewelry, HP regen buff drink, Steed mundus.

Just slightly under 5k HP recovery with potion buff active, resistances way over the hard cap of ~33k.
This is insane - in nBH the first midboss could not kill me even after I went AFK for over 10 minutes

So I skipped all other midbosses - they are optional and would take forever to kill like that - and went straight for good ol' Cap'n.
The fight... didn't even last 1 minute, I died to the ever-increasing number of adds. Retried a few times with some different approaches, still same result

Ironically, the Cap'n himself was doing barely any lasting damage, I could stand there and facetank him all day - BUT it seems that the adds keep spawning in without limit???

Next thing I want to try is to switch Fortified for Orgnum's - if this does not work then I can't think of anything else that possibly could.
In fact, I'd have gone with Orgnum's from the start - but I need to do the whole Fighers' Guild questline for that on PTS (PC EU - no character copy!)

Any other ideas, anyone?

Edit: forgot to mention, I also tried using Robes of the Hist set - but apparently the skeleton form debuff is NOT a "disabling effect" FFS

Darkmage1337

Does multi-boxing count as soloing?

Major_Lag

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Does multi-boxing count as soloing?

Actually the thought did cross my mind.
But it's way too much hassle to set up just for this, and would also violate the TOS.
Never mind that it would also violate both the letter and the spirit of the original challenge.

Presumably it would be quite easy with that kind of setup, you could just plop down a rubberbanded macroed healer who just spams AoE heals on a single spot, and use Inner Fire (or ice staff taunt) on the DD you are controlling...

...except that at that point, might as well just PUG the damn thing, some really bad PUGs are no better than a rubberbanded multibox setup

But back to the subject on hand:

1. I've also thought about using the Reactive set - but since the skeleton form debuff doesn't proc Hist, then presumably it also won't proc Reactive

2. One thing I did NOT yet try, is to use lingering health pots - need to test that together with Orgnum's, if I'm right then that should bring my HP recovery to around the 8k mark.
With Troll King it would be >10k - but I'm pretty sure I have no way to actually proc TK here.

3. Try a different race maybe? I used Argonian because my main is also an Argonian, but maybe using another race would result in better performance. Maybe Nord for the extra resists?

4. Maybe try a completely different approach - use LESS health recovery but spec for more damage, so I can kill the adds faster?
Does the skeleton debuff use highest offensive stat for scaling - does it even scale at all??? Needs more testing.

(EDIT: 5. Dammit, I also forgot to put max CP into health regen! NEEDS TESTING)

Currently the problem isn't out-recovering the initial damage input at the beginning of the skeleton debuff phase.
The problem is that even with the AoE heavy attack, I can't keep up with how fast the adds are spawning in.
It does not help that most of the adds are archers who tend to stay WAY out in the (sea)weeds, and sometimes even actively run away from the player to reposition and maintain distance.

Those damn archers are the biggest problem currently - I can kite the boss and melee adds fairly effectively, but in CMX the bulk of the incoming DPS is from the archers

Nestor

Last time I did this fight, light attacks were devastating to the boss when I was turned to a skeleton. Problem is the adds.

Major_Lag

But you had a "normal" DD build in your attempt?

Yeah that would explain it, the skeleton form LA/HA is basically near-identical to Sorc Overload.

In my initial testing yesterday, the HA was hitting for about 1k per tick - but of course that build hits like a wet noodle in general, due to the pitiful offensive stats.

Playah81

I made an attempt too.
I use my DK solo tank.

Valkyn Skoria
Leeching Plate
Bahraha's Curse

Can survive the first skeleton transformation.
but then he does it right after again and I die.

So don't think it's possible.
When he first makes you into skeleton he does it again and again right after and no opportunity to use skills in between.
Unless you can burn him down before he do it.

_Ahala_

Let me fix that complexion for you

Major_Lag

Playah81 wrote: »

When he first makes you into skeleton he does it again and again right after and no opportunity to use skills in between.
Unless you can burn him down before he do it.

Burning the Cap'n down doesn't sound even remotely plausible, he has ~1.6 mil HP on normal and you only have what, 20 seconds till he skeletonizes you?
Maybe it's possible with top tier DPS, but that's way out of my reach.

In my attempts I was getting maybe 3-4 seconds when I was able to use abilities between transformations, looks like he has to finish performing his current attack first.
Normally he would select a player at random - but with only 1 player there's only 1 possible choice, so you get chain transformed

I'll try applying Crit Surge during that window of opportunity, this is crazy but it might just work, the duration is pretty long and the effect shouldn't be cancelled when the skill gets removed from the bar?

EDIT:
CRAZY IDEA: wear Robes of the Hist and drink a POTION OF HINDRANCE to proc the set's heal
Maybe also add Reactive for the Major Protection as well

FrancisCrawford

Do you build ultimate while in skeleton form?

Calm_Fury

I tried this a few times but could never do it to completion.

I remember I used sets that healed my like Leching and Bahara's, maybe now Battalion Defender?

Spec everything into healing received, healing done, use Lingering Health pots.

Basically, the strategy is to get as much healing from passive sources as possible and DPS him with sets.

There are a few new sets now that might allow you to do that. I remember I survided 2 skeleton phases but then got overwhelmed.

Major_Lag

Haven't checked if you can generate ulti in skeleton form.
But it wouldn't do you much good, since you can't use any ulti while in skeleton form

Besides, which ulti are you thinking of?
Barrier would only last about 10-15 seconds at best with that kind of incoming damage.
The healing morph of Negate lasts 12 seconds.

Atro ulti would be great, but the atronach won't hold enemy aggro AFAIK.

SirLeeMinion

Major_Lag wrote: »

This is something that got me thinking. Can Cap'n Blackheart be soloed with a big serving of cheese? (but no werewolves, please!)

Sorry, WW is the only way I've ever been able to solo him on vet. Due to the massive nerfs to WW, I'm not sure even that's possible anymore. Perhaps using the pirate skeleton set would also prevent the unwanted skele transform if you were already transformed due to the set effects. But, post update 23, soloing difficult content is double plus un-fun, so I'm not even going to bother to try it. Good luck!

xWarbrain

Not sure if it would help enough, but what about something to proc minor/major maim on the adds? Maybe a proc aoe monster set like grothdarrs or even ice heart for the added defense.

Major_Lag

All along I knew about the WW form preventing skele transformation, but wasn't even considering it as an option - since it falls in the grey area of exploiting a bug in the game.

At one point Sorc Overload also had the same effect as WW form, but it's been patched out many months ago (tested it a couple weeks before Elsweyr release).

Pirate skeleton set is an interesting idea.
Unfortunately, after the recent nerf it has pretty poor uptime, which makes it a lot less useful for this purpose (assuming that it would even work!).

At this point, it looks like the best defense is a good offense. Outhealing the damage isn't a problem if the adds can be wiped out quickly enough.

I'll test various ideas over the weekend.
For the first line of fire, I'm considering RotH + potion of hindrance for healing, and 1 offensive 5pc set. We'll see about the monster set.

The logic here is that RotH + potion of hindrance is equivalent to about >4k HP recovery, which is A LOT.

Even better - use a potion of hindrance + lingering health. (Spider Egg + Luminous Russula + Butterfly Wing)

SirAndy

You used to be able to do this with the Daedroth pet and i've also seen people do this as WW but if i'm not mistaken both of those ways don't work well anymore.

I haven't run this in forever though ...

Cillion3117

I remember way back in the day, werewolf form was unaffected by the skeleton transformation. Not sure if they fixed that or not.

Integral1900

Did it with two, not sure about one, don’t think you can

We took a pair of necro dps/tank solo builds in there armed to the teeth with proc sets, just make sure you keep up the good old auto chains armour and the captains goon squad will be hoovered up a treat. It was hilariously fun, highly recomended.

Major_Lag

SirAndy wrote: »

You used to be able to do this with the Daedroth pet

DOH! That's another obvious option I've missed! Thanks
Does the Daedroth hold enemy aggro?

Integral1900 wrote: »

good old auto chains armour

Swarm Mother?
Yeah, that would work too - the adds die easily enough to the AoE heavy attack in skele form, the main problem is that they are waytoo spread out. And since most of them are archers, they will NOT run towards you to engage in melee range to burn in your AoE

Ok, between all of us here we have some pretty solid ideas, I'm definitely looking forward to testing this on the weekend

kylewwefan

Ok, this is very important. Did you go far to the back to the corner by the rocks as you can go?

like where you take low DPS groups so the archers cant hit them. I have done that in plenty of pugs.

Leeching/ Baharas sound good. Maybe you could try Resilient Yokeda. Maybe Grothdar Monster Set or some Damage one?

Lingering health pots.

A class with pets maybe?

Major_Lag

kylewwefan wrote: »

Ok, this is very important. Did you go far to the back to the corner by the rocks as you can go?

like where you take low DPS groups so the archers cant hit them. I have done that in plenty of pugs.

Hmm, need to reinvestigate this then.
I've tried going far to the left, but that didn't accomplish anything really.
Also tried going back towards the entrance, but all the adds followed me - and then the Cap'n became reset because of the excessive distance from his spawn point.

Haven't tried with pets, but I'm pretty sure that getting transformed will cause Sorc pets to despawn (because the skills are removed from skill bars).

SirAndy

Major_Lag wrote: »

Haven't tried with pets, but I'm pretty sure that getting transformed will cause Sorc pets to despawn (because the skills are removed from skill bars).

That is correct, Sorc pets don't work, they'll despawn ...

SirLeeMinion

Yep -WW still works. Please don't laugh too hard at my DPS! In my defense, my long-abandoned Stamblade in PvP gear was the only WW I hadn't cured, so I just blew through normal to see if it would work...

Gatdangmayne

Might i suggest using all proc sets, and letting those do basically all damage, being vamp for the undeath passive and just healing up before getting retansformed?

Something like thunderbug, overwhelming, grothdarr/skoria...maybe swap in pariah to stack with undeath?

SirAndy

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Yep -WW still works. Please don't laugh too hard at my DPS! In my defense, my long-abandoned Stamblade in PvP gear was the only WW I hadn't cured, so I just blew through normal to see if it would work.

Normal is easy, you can burn down the boss before he ever transforms you.

I'm tempted to try this on vet tonight ...

Major_Lag

Ok, so we have confirmation that WW still works for this.
In fact, after recent WW nerfs, that's probably the only good use for a WW

SirAndy wrote: »

Normal is easy, you can burn down the boss before he ever transforms you.

Solo?
By my rough estimate, you'd need to deal at least 60-80k self buffed DPS to burn the Cap'n down before he transforms you.
This kind of DPS would put you in the range of top few % of players, if not top 1%.

SirLeeMinion

Major_Lag wrote: »

Ok, so we have confirmation that WW still works for this.
In fact, after recent WW nerfs, that's probably the only good use for a WW

SirAndy wrote: »

Normal is easy, you can burn down the boss before he ever transforms you.

Solo?
By my rough estimate, you'd need to deal at least 60-80k self buffed DPS to burn the Cap'n down before he transforms you.
This kind of DPS would put you in the range of top few % of players, if not top 1%.

I've never been able to pull off a pre-transform burn. At best, solo on most normal non-DLC end bosses, I'll get a bit north of 30K DPS on the boss, less when they have a bunch of CC. A solo vet non-DLC end boss is more often in the low 20s due to avoiding mechanics, blocking, healing, etc... With update 23 and the emphasis on single target damage, I've found the larger mob packs more likely to kill me (running sorc, that is) than the bosses, at least in the easier vets (e.g. Direfrost). With Blackheart in particular, I imagine the mobs that spawn in addition to the boss will have made this particular vet boss more challenging than before update 23 dropped, even if you do find a way to avoid the transform. One other difficulty, that I don't think is just my imagination, is that solo instances seem to be less stable and more subject to lag-like effects and higher ping than prior to Elsewyr.

SirAndy

Major_Lag wrote: »

Ok, so we have confirmation that WW still works for this.
In fact, after recent WW nerfs, that's probably the only good use for a WW

SirAndy wrote: »

Normal is easy, you can burn down the boss before he ever transforms you.

Solo?
By my rough estimate, you'd need to deal at least 60-80k self buffed DPS to burn the Cap'n down before he transforms you.
This kind of DPS would put you in the range of top few % of players, if not top 1%.

Maybe i've just gotten lucky but i soloed normal several times without being transformed. That was a while back though and i was running my pet Sorc, could be the Clannfear soft taunt preventing him from focusing on me.

Major_Lag

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

(...) even if you do find a way to avoid the transform.

The whole idea here is to not avoid the transformation, but build around it.
The only way to avoid it would be to use WW form, which effectively amounts to exploiting a bug (or a design oversight) in the game's programming.

SirAndy wrote: »

Normal is easy, you can burn down the boss before he ever transforms you.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and assume that this was intended to mean burning the Cap'n down with a group of 4, which is how the dungeon is intended to be played.

And this would be an entirely accurate statement in that case - a group with 2 good DDs, or a 4DD group with 4 halfway decent DDs, will easily reach the group DPS required to accomplish such a task, if they ignore the adds and focus on the Cap'n.

SirAndy wrote: »

Maybe i've just gotten lucky but i soloed normal several times without being transformed. That was a while back though and i was running my pet Sorc, could be the Clannfear soft taunt preventing him from focusing on me.

Interesting. This points to another possible bug / design flaw in the boss' programming.

Could it be that he's trying to skeletonize the clannfear, but it fails since the clannfear is immune, and nothing happens?

Major_Lag

Sorry for double post, but here's a bunch more insight to chew on, based on the results of further testing.

Ladies and gentlemen, WE HAVE A WINNER!

And the winner is... LEECHING PLATE!

More specifically: Leeching Plate (5x body), RotH (jewelry + lightning staff).
I used Shadowrend for monster set, but it doesn't matter too much.
Pop potions of HINDRANCE + lingering health on cooldown. Crit Surge on cooldown.

Stand in the leftmost corner, where the shoreline meets the rocks. This forces the adds to all stand in one place... right in your Leeching Plate AoE

Now, because of the low DPS in skele form, this fight will take a VERY LONG TIME. I was doing about 2-3k DPS on the boss... yikes!

So you will have to excuse me for not having actually completed the fight on the PTS.
I did, however, slog through it long enough that the situation has stabilized and it was 100% obvious that I would not be dying anytime before Hell freezes over.

Here's my proof:

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Some useful information:

• The skeleton form debuff lasts 30 seconds.
• While in skele form, you continue to gain Ultimate, subject to the usual rules about light/heavy attacks.
• Adds appear to spawn in without limit, if you can't burn them down fast enough then you are dead.
• Using Crit Surge immediately after the skele form debuff expires is CRUCIAL. If you do this correctly, you will have >90% uptime on it.
• You will only have enough time to use 1 or 2 skills after returning from skele form, before you are pinned and transformed again.
• Sometimes you will have a few seconds of time between getting skele'd again. It happens quite infrequently though, so don't count on it.
• Can't drink potions while being skeletonized (during the pin) - if your potion runs out at that time, you are hosed. Other than that, potions function 100% normally while in skele form.
• Using the Sorc Clannfear does NOT work - the Cap'n won't aggro on it, even if you never hit him with any attack of your own. And of course it despawns when you get skele'd.

I tried RotH set with a potion of hindrance + lingering health. And guess what, IT WORKS. That's a free ~3.5k heal per second... well, "free" if you don't mind wading through molasses

I was able to get (relatively) very good survivability by spamming Crit Surge whenever possible, and popping the potion of hindrance on cooldown.

Incidentally, that makes for a very interesting build.
RotH + Undaunted Infiltrator, lightning staff, Crit Surge, potion of hindrance and lingering health, and you're nearly invincible with your >7k healing per second.
Or you can throw in a resto staff on backbar and easily reach >10k HPS, maybe even up to ~15k if you stand in your Illustrious AoE. Crazy

Monster sets:

Maw of the Infernal does NOT work. At all!
Apparently the heavy attacks in skele form aren't actually considered a heavy attack.
Haven't tried light attacks, because that makes no sense anyway.

Swarm Mother - I tried using it, but it never did anything useful in this fight. Maybe because the archer adds were outside of the 22m pull range?

Iceheart works (as in, it does proc), and it helps a lot - prolonged the fight quite a bit, but I eventually still got overwhelmed by over a dozen adds (!), before I went with Leeching Plate.

Shadowrend also works, I was able to last as long as 2:50 with it (on at least 3 attempts), which is the longest I've been able to manage thus far (edit: that means, longest without Leeching Plate).

Sellistrix is rather meh. The stun helps manage the adds... or rather it would, if they weren't so badly spread out.
After seeing how Sellistrix works, I didn't even bother trying Stormfist, it would be an exercise in futility.

Thurvokun = meh. Minor Maim helps a bit, but the delay between procs is too long for such a relatively mobile fight, so most of the effect ends up being wasted.

Valkyn Skoria - garbage, it would proc very infrequently, and the small AoE means that it would only rarely hit more than 2 enemies - usually the Cap'n and one of the melee adds.

Darkmage1337

Well done!

I still prefer the manual-spider multibox method.

Major_Lag

Darkmage1337 wrote: »

Well done!

Thanks, I had quite a blast with this.

I don't have the Leeching Plate set on live server, so I can't currently recreate this feat on Live without some serious farming - but in any case I've established that a working method exists, which is good enough for me

BTW, I've also tried Bahraha's Curse and it did not work.
It requires you to do damage to the adds, which just isn't feasible in this case, and the AoE is tiny.