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Blackheart Haven - can it be soloed (without WW)? YES IT CAN! Even on Vet!

Major_Lag
Major_Lag
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EDIT: I was able to figure out the trick to soloing this fight without resorting to WW form. CLICK HERE to jump to the relevant post.

EDIT 2: Some time after my successful soloing of BH on Normal, @StytchFingal has managed to solo it on Vet difficulty (albeit with a somewhat different gear setup). Click the link to see his attempt.


This is something that got me thinking. Can Cap'n Blackheart be soloed with a big serving of cheese? :D (but no werewolves, please!)

With any "normal" solo build, Blackheart Haven is non-soloable even on normal difficulty, because of mechanics on the final boss. :(
This makes the player unable to use any abilites, in fact it clears all abilities off the bars (thus desummoning Sorc pets). No selfheal means certain death... :#
...or does it?

To try this out, I went on the PTS and put together an HP regen stacked build that does NOT rely on any abilities in any way. So monster sets such as Troll King, Engine Guardian, etc. are out of the question.
I went with Alessian + Fortified Brass + Mighty Chudan. HP regen enchants on infused jewelry, HP regen buff drink, Steed mundus.

Just slightly under 5k HP recovery with potion buff active, resistances way over the hard cap of ~33k.
This is insane - in nBH the first midboss could not kill me even after I went AFK for over 10 minutes :D

So I skipped all other midbosses - they are optional and would take forever to kill like that - and went straight for good ol' Cap'n.
The fight... didn't even last 1 minute, I died to the ever-increasing number of adds. Retried a few times with some different approaches, still same result :#

Ironically, the Cap'n himself was doing barely any lasting damage, I could stand there and facetank him all day - BUT it seems that the adds keep spawning in without limit???

Next thing I want to try is to switch Fortified for Orgnum's - if this does not work then I can't think of anything else that possibly could.
In fact, I'd have gone with Orgnum's from the start - but I need to do the whole Fighers' Guild questline for that on PTS (PC EU - no character copy!) :#

Any other ideas, anyone? :)

Edit: forgot to mention, I also tried using Robes of the Hist set - but apparently the skeleton form debuff is NOT a "disabling effect" FFS :#
Edited by Major_Lag on September 20, 2019 3:51PM
  • Darkmage1337
    Darkmage1337
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    Does multi-boxing count as soloing? ;) B)
    GM of Absolute Virtue. Co-GM of Absolute Vice.
    6-time Former Emperor, out of 12 characters. CP: 1,100+
    3 Templars, 3 Sorcerers, 2 Nightblades, 2 Dragonknights, 1 Warden. 1 Necromancer.
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  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    Does multi-boxing count as soloing? ;) B)
    Actually the thought did cross my mind.
    But it's way too much hassle to set up just for this, and would also violate the TOS.
    Never mind that it would also violate both the letter and the spirit of the original challenge.

    Presumably it would be quite easy with that kind of setup, you could just plop down a rubberbanded macroed healer who just spams AoE heals on a single spot, and use Inner Fire (or ice staff taunt) on the DD you are controlling...

    ...except that at that point, might as well just PUG the damn thing, some really bad PUGs are no better than a rubberbanded multibox setup :D

    But back to the subject on hand:

    1. I've also thought about using the Reactive set - but since the skeleton form debuff doesn't proc Hist, then presumably it also won't proc Reactive :/

    2. One thing I did NOT yet try, is to use lingering health pots - need to test that together with Orgnum's, if I'm right then that should bring my HP recovery to around the 8k mark.
    With Troll King it would be >10k - but I'm pretty sure I have no way to actually proc TK here.

    3. Try a different race maybe? I used Argonian because my main is also an Argonian, but maybe using another race would result in better performance. Maybe Nord for the extra resists?

    4. Maybe try a completely different approach - use LESS health recovery but spec for more damage, so I can kill the adds faster?
    Does the skeleton debuff use highest offensive stat for scaling - does it even scale at all??? Needs more testing.

    (EDIT: 5. Dammit, I also forgot to put max CP into health regen! NEEDS TESTING)

    Currently the problem isn't out-recovering the initial damage input at the beginning of the skeleton debuff phase.
    The problem is that even with the AoE heavy attack, I can't keep up with how fast the adds are spawning in.
    It does not help that most of the adds are archers who tend to stay WAY out in the (sea)weeds, and sometimes even actively run away from the player to reposition and maintain distance.

    Those damn archers are the biggest problem currently - I can kite the boss and melee adds fairly effectively, but in CMX the bulk of the incoming DPS is from the archers :#
    Edited by Major_Lag on September 2, 2019 2:28AM
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    Last time I did this fight, light attacks were devastating to the boss when I was turned to a skeleton. Problem is the adds.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Major_Lag
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    But you had a "normal" DD build in your attempt?

    Yeah that would explain it, the skeleton form LA/HA is basically near-identical to Sorc Overload.

    In my initial testing yesterday, the HA was hitting for about 1k per tick - but of course that build hits like a wet noodle in general, due to the pitiful offensive stats.
  • Playah81
    Playah81
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    I made an attempt too. :)
    I use my DK solo tank.

    Valkyn Skoria
    Leeching Plate
    Bahraha's Curse

    Can survive the first skeleton transformation.
    but then he does it right after again and I die.

    So don't think it's possible.
    When he first makes you into skeleton he does it again and again right after and no opportunity to use skills in between.
    Unless you can burn him down before he do it.
    Edited by Playah81 on September 2, 2019 6:04AM
    PC // DC // EU

  • _Ahala_
    _Ahala_
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    Let me fix that complexion for you :s
  • Major_Lag
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    Playah81 wrote: »
    When he first makes you into skeleton he does it again and again right after and no opportunity to use skills in between.
    Unless you can burn him down before he do it.
    Burning the Cap'n down doesn't sound even remotely plausible, he has ~1.6 mil HP on normal and you only have what, 20 seconds till he skeletonizes you?
    Maybe it's possible with top tier DPS, but that's way out of my reach.

    In my attempts I was getting maybe 3-4 seconds when I was able to use abilities between transformations, looks like he has to finish performing his current attack first.
    Normally he would select a player at random - but with only 1 player there's only 1 possible choice, so you get chain transformed :D

    I'll try applying Crit Surge during that window of opportunity, this is crazy but it might just work, the duration is pretty long and the effect shouldn't be cancelled when the skill gets removed from the bar?

    EDIT:
    CRAZY IDEA: wear Robes of the Hist and drink a POTION OF HINDRANCE to proc the set's heal :D
    Maybe also add Reactive for the Major Protection as well :)
    Edited by Major_Lag on September 2, 2019 2:00PM
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Do you build ultimate while in skeleton form?
  • Calm_Fury
    Calm_Fury
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    I tried this a few times but could never do it to completion.

    I remember I used sets that healed my like Leching and Bahara's, maybe now Battalion Defender?

    Spec everything into healing received, healing done, use Lingering Health pots.

    Basically, the strategy is to get as much healing from passive sources as possible and DPS him with sets.

    There are a few new sets now that might allow you to do that. I remember I survided 2 skeleton phases but then got overwhelmed.
    The Pokes family:

    Pokes-With-Horns - DK Tank | Shadow Breaker, Blackrose Executioner, Guardian of the Green, Boethia's Scythe, Mageslayer
    Pokes-With-Ice - Warden Tank | Flawless Conqueror
    Pokes-With-Shiny-Sticks - Templar Tank | Flawless Conqueror
    Pokes-In-Darkness - NB Tank
    Pokes-By-Zapping - Sorc Tank
    S'sorcorc - StamSorc | Flawless Conqueror, Sunspire Saint, Mageslayer, Boethia's Scythe
    Pokes-With-Bones - Necro Tank
  • Major_Lag
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    Haven't checked if you can generate ulti in skeleton form.
    But it wouldn't do you much good, since you can't use any ulti while in skeleton form :/

    Besides, which ulti are you thinking of?
    Barrier would only last about 10-15 seconds at best with that kind of incoming damage.
    The healing morph of Negate lasts 12 seconds.

    Atro ulti would be great, but the atronach won't hold enemy aggro AFAIK.
  • SirLeeMinion
    SirLeeMinion
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    This is something that got me thinking. Can Cap'n Blackheart be soloed with a big serving of cheese? :D (but no werewolves, please!)
    Sorry, WW is the only way I've ever been able to solo him on vet. Due to the massive nerfs to WW, I'm not sure even that's possible anymore. Perhaps using the pirate skeleton set would also prevent the unwanted skele transform if you were already transformed due to the set effects. But, post update 23, soloing difficult content is double plus un-fun, so I'm not even going to bother to try it. Good luck!

  • xWarbrain
    xWarbrain
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    Not sure if it would help enough, but what about something to proc minor/major maim on the adds? Maybe a proc aoe monster set like grothdarrs or even ice heart for the added defense.
    XB1 NA
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    All along I knew about the WW form preventing skele transformation, but wasn't even considering it as an option - since it falls in the grey area of exploiting a bug in the game.

    At one point Sorc Overload also had the same effect as WW form, but it's been patched out many months ago (tested it a couple weeks before Elsweyr release).

    Pirate skeleton set is an interesting idea.
    Unfortunately, after the recent nerf it has pretty poor uptime, which makes it a lot less useful for this purpose (assuming that it would even work!).

    At this point, it looks like the best defense is a good offense. Outhealing the damage isn't a problem if the adds can be wiped out quickly enough.

    I'll test various ideas over the weekend.
    For the first line of fire, I'm considering RotH + potion of hindrance for healing, and 1 offensive 5pc set. We'll see about the monster set.

    The logic here is that RotH + potion of hindrance is equivalent to about >4k HP recovery, which is A LOT.

    Even better - use a potion of hindrance + lingering health. (Spider Egg + Luminous Russula + Butterfly Wing)
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    You used to be able to do this with the Daedroth pet and i've also seen people do this as WW but if i'm not mistaken both of those ways don't work well anymore.

    I haven't run this in forever though ...
    idea.gif


    Edited by SirAndy on September 4, 2019 5:46PM
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  • Cillion3117
    Cillion3117
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    I remember way back in the day, werewolf form was unaffected by the skeleton transformation. Not sure if they fixed that or not.
  • Integral1900
    Integral1900
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    Did it with two, not sure about one, don’t think you can

    We took a pair of necro dps/tank solo builds in there armed to the teeth with proc sets, just make sure you keep up the good old auto chains armour and the captains goon squad will be hoovered up a treat. It was hilariously fun, highly recomended.
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    You used to be able to do this with the Daedroth pet
    DOH! That's another obvious option I've missed! Thanks :)
    Does the Daedroth hold enemy aggro?
    good old auto chains armour
    Swarm Mother?
    Yeah, that would work too - the adds die easily enough to the AoE heavy attack in skele form, the main problem is that they are waytoo spread out. And since most of them are archers, they will NOT run towards you to engage in melee range to burn in your AoE :D

    Ok, between all of us here we have some pretty solid ideas, I'm definitely looking forward to testing this on the weekend :)
  • kylewwefan
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    Ok, this is very important. Did you go far to the back to the corner by the rocks as you can go?

    like where you take low DPS groups so the archers cant hit them. I have done that in plenty of pugs.

    Leeching/ Baharas sound good. Maybe you could try Resilient Yokeda. Maybe Grothdar Monster Set or some Damage one?

    Lingering health pots.

    A class with pets maybe?
    PlayStation NA
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    PlayStation EU
    258 CP
    DC Orc Warden Stormproof
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    kylewwefan wrote: »
    Ok, this is very important. Did you go far to the back to the corner by the rocks as you can go?

    like where you take low DPS groups so the archers cant hit them. I have done that in plenty of pugs.
    Hmm, need to reinvestigate this then.
    I've tried going far to the left, but that didn't accomplish anything really.
    Also tried going back towards the entrance, but all the adds followed me - and then the Cap'n became reset because of the excessive distance from his spawn point.

    Haven't tried with pets, but I'm pretty sure that getting transformed will cause Sorc pets to despawn (because the skills are removed from skill bars).
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    Haven't tried with pets, but I'm pretty sure that getting transformed will cause Sorc pets to despawn (because the skills are removed from skill bars).
    That is correct, Sorc pets don't work, they'll despawn ...
    dry.gif


    The Sidekick Order:
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    The Psijic Order - 0.016% | Elder Moot | Lone Wolf Help | Great House Hlaalu
  • SirLeeMinion
    SirLeeMinion
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    Yep -WW still works. Please don't laugh too hard at my DPS! In my defense, my long-abandoned Stamblade in PvP gear was the only WW I hadn't cured, so I just blew through normal to see if it would work...Blackheart.jpg
  • Gatdangmayne
    Gatdangmayne
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    Might i suggest using all proc sets, and letting those do basically all damage, being vamp for the undeath passive and just healing up before getting retansformed?

    Something like thunderbug, overwhelming, grothdarr/skoria...maybe swap in pariah to stack with undeath?
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    Yep -WW still works. Please don't laugh too hard at my DPS! In my defense, my long-abandoned Stamblade in PvP gear was the only WW I hadn't cured, so I just blew through normal to see if it would work.

    Normal is easy, you can burn down the boss before he ever transforms you.

    I'm tempted to try this on vet tonight ...
    idea.gif

    The Sidekick Order:
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  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    Ok, so we have confirmation that WW still works for this.
    In fact, after recent WW nerfs, that's probably the only good use for a WW :D
    SirAndy wrote: »
    Normal is easy, you can burn down the boss before he ever transforms you.
    Solo?
    By my rough estimate, you'd need to deal at least 60-80k self buffed DPS to burn the Cap'n down before he transforms you.
    This kind of DPS would put you in the range of top few % of players, if not top 1%.
  • SirLeeMinion
    SirLeeMinion
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    Ok, so we have confirmation that WW still works for this.
    In fact, after recent WW nerfs, that's probably the only good use for a WW :D
    SirAndy wrote: »
    Normal is easy, you can burn down the boss before he ever transforms you.
    Solo?
    By my rough estimate, you'd need to deal at least 60-80k self buffed DPS to burn the Cap'n down before he transforms you.
    This kind of DPS would put you in the range of top few % of players, if not top 1%.

    I've never been able to pull off a pre-transform burn. At best, solo on most normal non-DLC end bosses, I'll get a bit north of 30K DPS on the boss, less when they have a bunch of CC. A solo vet non-DLC end boss is more often in the low 20s due to avoiding mechanics, blocking, healing, etc... With update 23 and the emphasis on single target damage, I've found the larger mob packs more likely to kill me (running sorc, that is) than the bosses, at least in the easier vets (e.g. Direfrost). With Blackheart in particular, I imagine the mobs that spawn in addition to the boss will have made this particular vet boss more challenging than before update 23 dropped, even if you do find a way to avoid the transform. One other difficulty, that I don't think is just my imagination, is that solo instances seem to be less stable and more subject to lag-like effects and higher ping than prior to Elsewyr.
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    Ok, so we have confirmation that WW still works for this.
    In fact, after recent WW nerfs, that's probably the only good use for a WW :D
    SirAndy wrote: »
    Normal is easy, you can burn down the boss before he ever transforms you.
    Solo?
    By my rough estimate, you'd need to deal at least 60-80k self buffed DPS to burn the Cap'n down before he transforms you.
    This kind of DPS would put you in the range of top few % of players, if not top 1%.

    Maybe i've just gotten lucky but i soloed normal several times without being transformed. That was a while back though and i was running my pet Sorc, could be the Clannfear soft taunt preventing him from focusing on me.
    idea.gif

    The Sidekick Order:
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  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    (...) even if you do find a way to avoid the transform.
    The whole idea here is to not avoid the transformation, but build around it.
    The only way to avoid it would be to use WW form, which effectively amounts to exploiting a bug (or a design oversight) in the game's programming.
    SirAndy wrote: »
    Normal is easy, you can burn down the boss before he ever transforms you.
    I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and assume that this was intended to mean burning the Cap'n down with a group of 4, which is how the dungeon is intended to be played.

    And this would be an entirely accurate statement in that case - a group with 2 good DDs, or a 4DD group with 4 halfway decent DDs, will easily reach the group DPS required to accomplish such a task, if they ignore the adds and focus on the Cap'n.
    SirAndy wrote: »
    Maybe i've just gotten lucky but i soloed normal several times without being transformed. That was a while back though and i was running my pet Sorc, could be the Clannfear soft taunt preventing him from focusing on me.
    Interesting. This points to another possible bug / design flaw in the boss' programming.

    Could it be that he's trying to skeletonize the clannfear, but it fails since the clannfear is immune, and nothing happens? :o
  • Darkmage1337
    Darkmage1337
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    Well done! :)
    I still prefer the manual-spider multibox method. B)
    GM of Absolute Virtue. Co-GM of Absolute Vice.
    6-time Former Emperor, out of 12 characters. CP: 1,100+
    3 Templars, 3 Sorcerers, 2 Nightblades, 2 Dragonknights, 1 Warden. 1 Necromancer.
    The Ebonheart Pact: The Dark-Mage (Former Emperor), The Undying Nightshade, The Moonlit-Knight, The Killionaire (Former Emperor), Swims-Among-Slaughterfish (Former Emperor), The Undead Mage
    The Aldmeri Dominion: The Dawn-Bringer (Former Empress), The Ironwood Kid (Former Emperor), The Storm-Sword
    The Daggerfall Covenant: The Storm-Shield (Former Empress), The Savage-Beast, The Burning-Crusader
    ESO subscriber since launch. ESO Platform/Server: PC/NA.
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    Well done! :)
    Thanks, I had quite a blast with this.

    I don't have the Leeching Plate set on live server, so I can't currently recreate this feat on Live without some serious farming - but in any case I've established that a working method exists, which is good enough for me :)

    BTW, I've also tried Bahraha's Curse and it did not work.
    It requires you to do damage to the adds, which just isn't feasible in this case, and the AoE is tiny.
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