Anyone Else Miss "Old School" MMO Gameplay?

LucyferLightbringer

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Not a bit. Happy soloist here.

If you want to solo go play an RPG


Yes I want more class and role identity. Everyone being able to do everything is why this game sucks now. If you don't want to team up with other people to play a game maybe a MMO is not for you.

If you want old style mmo go play WoW classic.
If you think the game sucks, and are unhappy with it, maybe ESO is not for you.

tizodd

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Not a bit. Happy soloist here.

If you want to solo go play an RPG


Yes I want more class and role identity. Everyone being able to do everything is why this game sucks now. If you don't want to team up with other people to play a game maybe a MMO is not for you.

If you want old style mmo go play WoW classic.
If you think the game sucks, and are unhappy with it, maybe ESO is not for you.

Consumers should always have the right to voice their opinion on products they pay for. When you start taking that away and saying "deal with it", is when businesses and corporations start taking advantage.

Not ESO related, but still related to the "deal with it" mindset: Loot boxes and "pay-to-win" are still alive and thriving because consumers let it go on too long without objecting with their wallets. That let companies know that we were ripe for the picking.

EirgarthEldjarns

I have been playing online games for a LONG time, from various MUDS, M59 and on... I am torn actually, I did enjoy the fact that a certain group composite was needed for various content, but I do solo for the most part... It is pretty much just evolution in the genre in general. I can't see an old school DAoC dragon raid working these days. Trying to get a 100 folks together for something that will probably fail is unseen these days.

EQ for example, was NOT really casual friendly, where is most of today's games are... which is fine, a lot of the old school MMO gamers I know are now parents, grand parents, have responsibilities, etc.

What I miss more then anything is the 'better' sense of community I used to feel in the older games... I am still friends with players from M59, EQ, DaOC... but as for the 'newer' games, I haven't been able to build those type of bonds... maybe its me, maybe its the genre... who knows.

I am more than curious to see what ESO plans to do with the Class Identity changes they are planning.

Eir

billp_ESO

What I miss is the ability to play as a jack of all trades. You had a lot of skills to choose from, and a big part of the fun was picking the right skill for the right moment. You weren't the best at anything, but could stopgap and fill the roles that might be missing.

With ESO's ridiculous limit of 5 skills at a time, you can't play that way. And some of ESO's skills are really buffs that have to be on the bar, or pets that have to be on the bar. This limits you to just 3-4 real skills at any one time, and almost everybody has the same ones slotted.

The other thing I miss is the complexity. Old school MMO's had much more complicated and varied characters to build. They had many classes that really were different from each other. And even in one class alone, like say the Cabalist in DAOC, there were three different paths to play, each one quite different than the others.

In DAOC, each of the 3 sides has totally different classes, and each side has more than one of each type. For example, there were two different CC classes just on one side (Alb), and they had different skills and played differently. And these two each had their own trees to specialize in.

ESO has nothing like this. It is closer to Mortal Kombat than to an old-style MMO.

HowlKimchi

What I miss the most is a hard leveling experience where you have to group up with people just to be able to kill mobs.

But ESO isn't that game and i'm fine with it.

Wifeaggro13

tizodd wrote: »

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Not a bit. Happy soloist here.

If you want to solo go play an RPG


Yes I want more class and role identity. Everyone being able to do everything is why this game sucks now. If you don't want to team up with other people to play a game maybe a MMO is not for you.

If you want old style mmo go play WoW classic.
If you think the game sucks, and are unhappy with it, maybe ESO is not for you.

Consumers should always have the right to voice their opinion on products they pay for. When you start taking that away and saying "deal with it", is when businesses and corporations start taking advantage.

Not ESO related, but still related to the "deal with it" mindset: Loot boxes and "pay-to-win" are still alive and thriving because consumers let it go on too long without objecting with their wallets. That let companies know that we were ripe for the picking.

Dont worry Lucifer wont even be playing the game in 90 days but will likely be in the forums complaining about a nerf to his superman build.

Delparis

I'm not really in favor of this mechanic, but tab targeting and casting time help reduce the load on server and improve greatly the gameplay.

I hate this weaving animation canceling mechanic in ESO as it increase the load on server and generate frame rate drops and lags.

ZoS should fix this exploit (animation cancelling and weaving) and increase the GCD to 1 sec on all skills. LA shouldn't share the same GCD of Skills though.

The combat will much more slower that true, but at least you'll be playing at 60 fps and with no lag. Because when you play at 20 fps with 600 ms a fast combat system won't help you at all.

Path

I miss my sandbox.

Jaraal

tizodd wrote: »

Now, I'm not suggesting we return to the days of Everquest, when camping bosses and organizing raids took over people's lives. But I do wish classes had a more unique feel again.

Anyone else miss the days when we couldn't just run through a dungeon willy-nilly with dps giving no fvcks?

Ahhh, those were the glory days. Four hour Plane of Fear corpse runs, night-blind Barbarians making hair raising naked runs from Halas to Unrest, Crazy trains in LGuk, having to get a group to help you get your Epics, etc.

Unfortunately, we're stuck with the "everybody can do everything" boring mentality here. It's all about the look, now. How cool/pretty can I be while doing the same ol same ol?

barney2525

Iskiab wrote: »

In a sense yes. I like needing a tank, healer and dps (so the trinity). What I’ve come to understand is requiring certain classes (like a puller or slower) is dumb (EQ bard Requiem here so I was one who benefited from it).

The sweet spot is like ESO. Play any class but if your class isn’t meant to be optional at things it won’t be.

Like all the cries for ‘balance’ are sorta dumb. With how the game’s designed score guilds will always load up on the top dps classes, most of the crying boils down to ‘make my class the loaded up class’. As long as any class can complete vet content I think things are fine. All the cries for balance because ‘my toon is 98k and they want 100k classes’ are silly.

not criticizing here, but I think you meant 'Optimal'

Aesthier

tizodd wrote: »

Anyone Else Miss "Old School" MMO Gameplay?

.....NOPE!

Casterial

Have you tried some DLC vet dungeons with 4 dps 0 heals?

spekdah

I do miss that old hardcore MMO, guess hanging out and hoping Pantheon: The fallen will be good.

If you go back to early EQ1 before AA points

1. Death meant XP loss, re-spawned naked (sometimes very far away) and had to go get your gear. Death was scary. After 24 hours you lost your gear.
2. Resources didn't come back fast, so sometimes starting fights with 50% or less mana or HP.
3. Can't solo any mob, well technically possible but could take a while. Needed a group to tackle any real content.
4. A group of trash mobs is like a vet trial, mistakes and group wipes
5. Need crowd control to fight groups
6. Rare spawns with rare drops. No instanced content or dungeons. Can't say i'm fond of these aspects. Don't miss this at all.

That is skirting the edges.

DaveMoeDee

While I mostly tank, when I am running a vet dungeon for the 30th time for a pledge, I just want it over fast.

Knootewoot

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Not a bit. Happy soloist here.

If you want to solo go play an RPG


Yes I want more class and role identity. Everyone being able to do everything is why this game sucks now. If you don't want to team up with other people to play a game maybe a MMO is not for you.

If you want old style mmo go play WoW classic.
If you think the game sucks, and are unhappy with it, maybe ESO is not for you.

Agree. I do love old style mmo. I can wait forever for Pantheon. I tried wow classic this weekend (which I never played. I did try new wow once but not for long)
So far I like it. One of the aspects I love is socializing. Lack of a group finder encourages people to interact with each other. Also I only have 12 ms ping and there are tons of people.
I will see how it goes. I also persuaded my wife to drop ESO and try WoW for a few months.

Jaraal

spekdah wrote: »

5. Need crowd control to fight groups

That's probably what I miss most about EQ gameplay: Enchanters and Bards being able to Mesmerize and Charm. Watching a skilled 'chanter balancing adds and trying to manage mana was a thing of beauty.

Nemesis7884

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Not a bit. Happy soloist here.

If you want to solo go play an RPG


Yes I want more class and role identity. Everyone being able to do everything is why this game sucks now. If you don't want to team up with other people to play a game maybe a MMO is not for you.

If you want old style mmo go play WoW classic.
If you think the game sucks, and are unhappy with it, maybe ESO is not for you.

"if you dont like it leave" - no, if you dont like it, speak up, discuss it, share your ideas, maybe other people agree and we can improve the game....

This if you dont like it leave attitude can only shorten a games lifespan and that can not be in anyones interest


I do think - and this might be the reason why there are hardly any around anymore or being made - that convenience and streamlining and micro-trx have taken over oldschool mmo's sense of community, wonder, exploration, adventure and danger

Knootewoot

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Not a bit. Happy soloist here.

If you want to solo go play an RPG


Yes I want more class and role identity. Everyone being able to do everything is why this game sucks now. If you don't want to team up with other people to play a game maybe a MMO is not for you.

If you want old style mmo go play WoW classic.
If you think the game sucks, and are unhappy with it, maybe ESO is not for you.

"if you dont like it leave" - no, if you dont like it, speak up, discuss it, share your ideas, maybe other people agree and we can improve the game....

He has a point though. ESO is not your typical classic mmo if you look to classic wow, vanguard, eq or up.

That means, no dungeon finder, no fast travel, tab targeting combat, skills with cooldowns, no animation cancelling, no fast paced twitchy combat, existence of the holy trinity, no clown store, no lag.

I really doubt, even when voicing ideas, they can or will turn ESO in a classic style mmo. People like ESO for a reason. If one does not like the ESO mmo (some claim it's not a mmo) and prefers classic style mmo's... yes ESO is not for you and it's time to look elsewyr.

Hence I look forward to Pantheon. I do like ESO, but only for its pvp which sucks these days.

Daedric_NB_187

I miss the sandbox nature of older MMOs. I also miss that the best stuff came from accomplishing stuff ingame instead of from loot boxes and crown type stores.

Morgul667

i miss old school mmo

mague

tizodd wrote: »

Anyone else miss the days when we couldn't just run through a dungeon willy-nilly with dps giving no fvcks?

I miss the days where people did their role when grouping. But forced trinity works only in a game that has no solo gameplay at all. In those days there was no class balance required because you needed a group for anything outside of the city.

asuzab16_ESO

I needed a small break from the current WoW and ESO because I was tired of having gameplays too action oriented. I gave WoW Classic a try and I've been having so much fun during the past week. I don't know if it qualifies as old school gameplay but it sure feels good not feeling like you must absolutely press a key every half second. It is of course slower but the upside is that each spell feels way more impactful. Having open world content where anything can kill you also helps giving more meaning and depth to the gameplay.

Mayrael

Nope, I like creative gameplay. I don't miss grindfests, boring quests and artificial locks. PvP is also more skill based than in "old MMOs", I played many of them and can say that out there determining factors was usualy your gear and class. While in ESO you can literally copy/paste build and still suck or be deadly as [snip] when using simple sets. Nope, I don't miss old MMOs, if I did I would play them.

[Edit for Profanity]

ccfeeling

EQ1 was fun but too hardcored .

30-40 players share 5-6 loots from the final boss , boss respawn timer about 1 week
All guilds contend the bosses over the world 7 / 24 .

I remember that we used 16 groups , 96 players to challenge The Avatar of War in Kael Drakkel , it's crazy .

I miss the day in EQ but I won't play like that anymore .

ESO has much more choices , I could play the game casual or try something hardcore in progression guild , I could even solo most of the bosses in the world or arena , I don't have to yell LFG , ESO provide group finder .

I don't know how's Everquest nowday , but I had no fun when I couldn't find a group , solo was almost impossible in EQ1 , I just put my LFG on and wait , EVERWAIT .

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

No I like the fast paced DPS driven gameplay. Old school MMO had cool downs and casting timers with very rigid class roles.

UO didn't have classes though. And that's the first MMORPG with the full meaning of the word.
Assuming The Realm and The Shadow of Yserbius & The Fates of Twinion do not count as they were MUDs

Berserkerkitten

I never liked the way oldschool MMOs made everyone a specialist in exactly one field and completely worthless at everything else. You're a warrior, go soak up damage, it's the only thing you're good at. With the pitiful amounts of damage you deal, all you can do is hope for your enemies to die of old age. Or play a damage dealer who can't take a hit or a healer who can't do anything besides keep people alive. Constant need to team up, can't do anything on your own.

Yes, I get it, MMOs are meant to be social, multiplayer is in the title, but I like being able to do stuff on my own every now and then. On ESO I can be reasonably tanky whilst dishing out and still have decent self-healing. Granted, that's certainly not the kind of setup you'd use in a veteran trial, but for the most part you can specialize in a single field as much or as little as you want to, be a jack of all trades if you feel like it. More freedom, more ways to play, I'm all for it.

Runkorko

tizodd wrote: »

I suppose it's not horrible that everyone can do everything, but I do miss actually needing roles for things. Now-a-days, even many vet dungeons can be completed with 4 dps (minus the newer stuff).

I do miss the days when groups needed a tank, healer, and dps. Tanks and healers didn't do enough damage to effectively complete things alone; and dps would be killed by hard-hitting enemies if they went at it alone. So everyone had a use. It seems like so many mmo's now are making it so everyone is essentially a jack-of-all-trades.

Now, I'm not suggesting we return to the days of Everquest, when camping bosses and organizing raids took over people's lives. But I do wish classes had a more unique feel again.

Anyone else miss the days when we couldn't just run through a dungeon willy-nilly with dps giving no fvcks?

4 dps cant compleat most of the vet dungeons. 4 balanced players can. This mean they will be dps/ heal/tank mixed, or atleastdps/selfheal. This characters you cant cal DPS?

I dont miss such old days, where grp needed a pure tank. First before we never had such days, second because they never gone. Even back in a past we did all speed runs with 4 mixed characters.

What i miss is how "hard" was game before"
For example take battle with the Dosha. You literaly needed to understand how to counter her to be able to wint this battle.
Today game skill level is lowered. Its not playe rfriendly as sm1 love to call it. Its noob friendly. Make to suit key mashers.
So it lower the quality of dps tanks and healers you got in dungeon. Because gap between open world. non/vet dungeon and DLC dungeons is too big. Thats wy ppl prefer to do even noraml daily dungeon run with low lvl players / even if they are 810/ to no hop acidently in vet normal and strygle wuth ppl who have no idea where they ar/ what do do/ and how even play their toons.
Thast why we have situations like this :

https://imgur.com/iE9U2k3

doing 3k dps on boss as a tank and stil doing 60% of grp dps ...

its from normal but i can take a screens from vet too / think we all see this before so no proof needed.

What i miss from the old days is the comunity. We had diferent ppl back then. Sadly most of them left. There are stil some, but very few and very scatered. And very antisocial too (for which I cannot blame them )

Artemiisia

I dont know why, I thought with that title it would be more like real old school mmos, like age of empires

x4livin

Not really. I still keep my old school runescape. I tried to play old school WOW...but my pc won't hold both. I had to choose, and ESO won.

jainiadral

Good lord, no. After reading all the laudatory stuff about WoW the last couple of days-- and I never got to any of those parts of the game-- I fired it up again. I lasted about an hour, and about 1.5 levels, thanks to banking months of resting XP.

There are things I don't mind about the retro experience-- especially the graphics if they're done well. If they're used nicely, they can have their own immersive feel. WoW definitely does a lot with what technology it has available, and some of the environments are still beautiful. I love the mouse-interactable menus, and I'm ok with text-box questing.

But the UI and the mechanics don't age well at all. Overall, there's so much that wastes your time. Running back and forth across questing areas on foot with no decent sprint. Slow mob and boss respawns. Not enough enemies to account for all the questing players. No auto-targeting if something attacks you. Digging through primitive inventory interfaces. Dying-- because maps honestly suck-- takes you to a graveyard 9000 miles away from your quest destination. You can also choose to take a massive penalty or to go back to the corpse some uber-elite enemy is wailing on and pray you can revive and run before dying again.*

* Optional storytime: I was off in some blood elf area trying to kill some beasties or other. I needed ten. I ran across a dying questgiver who tried to sell me on an elite quest. After finding out I'd have to group, I noped on out and went on to do my chores. Except, somehow, I was in the elite area which I had no clue about until the megaboss spawned on me and started whacking. I was doing pretty well. My little imp minion was dishing out the pain, and weirdly, so was I. We'd gotten her down halfway when all of a sudden I was insta-dead from some invisible attack.

Then I was in a graveyard after being told I had a six minute respawn penalty. Hunh? I clicked the prompt and ended up in the graveyard with a bad choice. I opted for the penalty which included some kind of two-minute "resurrection sickness" and a 25% reduction in armor and not enough gold to repair it. I checked my map and realized it would take me close to ten minutes to get back. Where I'd probably blunder into the boss again... That ended my WoW career for the second time