Anyone Else Miss "Old School" MMO Gameplay?

tizodd

I suppose it's not horrible that everyone can do everything, but I do miss actually needing roles for things. Now-a-days, even many vet dungeons can be completed with 4 dps (minus the newer stuff).

I do miss the days when groups needed a tank, healer, and dps. Tanks and healers didn't do enough damage to effectively complete things alone; and dps would be killed by hard-hitting enemies if they went at it alone. So everyone had a use. It seems like so many mmo's now are making it so everyone is essentially a jack-of-all-trades.

Now, I'm not suggesting we return to the days of Everquest, when camping bosses and organizing raids took over people's lives. But I do wish classes had a more unique feel again.

Anyone else miss the days when we couldn't just run through a dungeon willy-nilly with dps giving no [snip]?

[Edit to remove profanity]

Vietfox

Nah

Neoauspex

I miss really old school, MUD style, where if you died you character was #$@-&+? gone.

Glurin

Do I miss being stuck in a class that can only ever do one thing and can only ever do it one way leaving me unable to adapt to any changing situation without switching to an entirely different character?

Nope.

Do I miss tactics consisting of more than squeezing an extra 300 dps onto the damage meter? Yeah, I kinda do. Trouble is, for the most part that's not really a design problem. That's a problem with the community.

Iskiab

In a sense yes. I like needing a tank, healer and dps (so the trinity). What I’ve come to understand is requiring certain classes (like a puller or slower) is dumb (EQ bard Requiem here so I was one who benefited from it).

The sweet spot is like ESO. Play any class but if your class isn’t meant to be optional at things it won’t be.

Like all the cries for ‘balance’ are sorta dumb. With how the game’s designed score guilds will always load up on the top dps classes, most of the crying boils down to ‘make my class the loaded up class’. As long as any class can complete vet content I think things are fine. All the cries for balance because ‘my toon is 98k and they want 100k classes’ are silly.

fastolfv_ESO

What i miss about old mmos was developers trying new unique ways to play instead of what we got in eso with gather a few dps and a healer go to town mode. Hell even daoc a pvp game had unique ways to pve with the highest dps drawing the aggro and the tanks role to guard the dps and intercept incoming hits not actually holding the threat and heals potentially drawing aggro if overused making pve small and large scale unique

craybest

not at all. i wish we had much more liberty at the moment of choosing roles, or even wouldn0t even need them at all.

Grymmoire

I think requiring a variety of classes to complete content is fine, given each class can adapt to fill several roles. This would go a long way toward groups not waiting indefinite periods to fill a particular needed role, especially in odd hour play.

Definitely as of late, MMORPG's have become perhaps too action oriented and fast paced. This tends to engender less tactics and strategy. Yes we have mechanics in trials that are for the most part memorized and thus overcome by routine exposure, Remember how Enchanters were required to mezz and keep track of adds in EQ1? Or even how Polymorph used judiciously in (dare I mention?) WoW was part of creating victory in PvP?

Not especially popular I know, but cool downs on skills and abilities allows for more tactical and strategic play imho. Usually games of this genre are also slower paced, less hyperactive, and tend to take longer to finish group content thus not everyone's cup of tea. Thinking of EQ1; Vanguard; DAoC as some examples, sans some of the time wasting some of those games built-in (looking at you EQ1 while sitting on my butt regenerating mana)

Two games that may release by 2020 are Camelot Unchained and Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen which will be slower paced and more group oriented, yet will probably not allow class switching which will hinder group formation in all but prime hours, once again, imho. However, these two upcoming games may address the what the OP notes.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

tizodd wrote: »

I suppose it's not horrible that everyone can do everything, but I do miss actually needing roles for things. Now-a-days, even many vet dungeons can be completed with 4 dps (minus the newer stuff).

I do miss the days when groups needed a tank, healer, and dps. Tanks and healers didn't do enough damage to effectively complete things alone; and dps would be killed by hard-hitting enemies if they went at it alone. So everyone had a use. It seems like so many mmo's now are making it so everyone is essentially a jack-of-all-trades.

Now, I'm not suggesting we return to the days of Everquest, when camping bosses and organizing raids took over people's lives. But I do wish classes had a more unique feel again.

Anyone else miss the days when we couldn't just run through a dungeon willy-nilly with dps giving no [Snip]?

Define "old school". You mean UO? DAOC? Some MUD before that? EQ?

Wifeaggro13

tizodd wrote: »

I suppose it's not horrible that everyone can do everything, but I do miss actually needing roles for things. Now-a-days, even many vet dungeons can be completed with 4 dps (minus the newer stuff).

I do miss the days when groups needed a tank, healer, and dps. Tanks and healers didn't do enough damage to effectively complete things alone; and dps would be killed by hard-hitting enemies if they went at it alone. So everyone had a use. It seems like so many mmo's now are making it so everyone is essentially a jack-of-all-trades.

Now, I'm not suggesting we return to the days of Everquest, when camping bosses and organizing raids took over people's lives. But I do wish classes had a more unique feel again.

Anyone else miss the days when we couldn't just run through a dungeon willy-nilly with dps giving no [snip]?

Yes I do .

AcadianPaladin

Not a bit. Happy soloist here.

Jeremy

tizodd wrote: »

I suppose it's not horrible that everyone can do everything, but I do miss actually needing roles for things. Now-a-days, even many vet dungeons can be completed with 4 dps (minus the newer stuff).

I do miss the days when groups needed a tank, healer, and dps. Tanks and healers didn't do enough damage to effectively complete things alone; and dps would be killed by hard-hitting enemies if they went at it alone. So everyone had a use. It seems like so many mmo's now are making it so everyone is essentially a jack-of-all-trades.

Now, I'm not suggesting we return to the days of Everquest, when camping bosses and organizing raids took over people's lives. But I do wish classes had a more unique feel again.

Anyone else miss the days when we couldn't just run through a dungeon willy-nilly with dps giving no [Snip]?

I miss it. Group content should require defensive, healing, and offensive components. Also support (if you ask me) such as crowd control, buffs, enfeebles, and resource restoration. Old School MMORPGs had far more interesting strategies when it came to group composition and combat - and these games were better for it. This modern approach to MMOs - where it's all about the DEEPS BABY is incredibly lame and I hate it. But sadly that's what this newer generation demands.

Kiralyn2000

If you're looking for "old school but not to an EQ level", Classic WoW just launched.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

If you're looking for "old school but not to an EQ level", Classic WoW just launched.

I wouldn't call WoW old school, as it came out many years after a dozen much better MMORPGs

Kiralyn2000

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

If you're looking for "old school but not to an EQ level", Classic WoW just launched.

I wouldn't call WoW old school, as it came out many years after a dozen much better MMORPGs

Given that the OP's desire was:

I do miss the days when groups needed a tank, healer, and dps. Tanks and healers didn't do enough damage to effectively complete things alone; and dps would be killed by hard-hitting enemies if they went at it alone. So everyone had a use. It seems like so many mmo's now are making it so everyone is essentially a jack-of-all-trades.

...I definitely remember in vanilla WoW, going into Blackrock Spire and running into Dragonkin spawns where you needed to lock down two with CC while the tank held the attention of the others and the DPS burned them down one at a time while the healer kept the tank alive. /shrug

(having the Rogue sneak up and Sap one, the Hunter kiting one around the spots you cleared, the Mage sheeping things.... classes with unique feel? Oh, yeah - and 'classic' was when the Horde had Shamans & Alliance had Paladins. At least for awhile.)


edit: and no, I'm not trying to shill for WoW. Haven't played that game in years & years.

Aznarb

Yes I miss the logical role lock. Now class didn't make sens in many MMORPG.
Look at pvp, heavy hard-healing DPS everywhere or 90% of content can be pass with 4DPS or 1 Tank + 3 DPS.. so stupid..

That the only thing I miss, the rest got a good evolution (gameplay, raid creativity, graph, physic, etc..)

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

If you're looking for "old school but not to an EQ level", Classic WoW just launched.

I wouldn't call WoW old school, as it came out many years after a dozen much better MMORPGs

Agree.

eso_lytw8

tizodd wrote: »

I suppose it's not horrible that everyone can do everything, but I do miss actually needing roles for things. Now-a-days, even many vet dungeons can be completed with 4 dps (minus the newer stuff).

I do miss the days when groups needed a tank, healer, and dps. Tanks and healers didn't do enough damage to effectively complete things alone; and dps would be killed by hard-hitting enemies if they went at it alone. So everyone had a use. It seems like so many mmo's now are making it so everyone is essentially a jack-of-all-trades.

Now, I'm not suggesting we return to the days of Everquest, when camping bosses and organizing raids took over people's lives. But I do wish classes had a more unique feel again.

Anyone else miss the days when we couldn't just run through a dungeon willy-nilly with dps giving no [snip]?

Yes I do miss this immensely. I was a day 1 everquester. The game was brutal and the brutal elements I do not miss. But I do miss that you needed a tank, a healer, a messer, and damage dealers. Without a group that had roles a group of regular mobs could waste a full team.

ZOS has killed the healer, noone even wants one. In everquest it was incredibly fun to go crazy dealing damage and knew you life depended on others...the tank to take agro, you needed pullers, the healer to bring you back from the brink of death, an enchanter or bard to control the crowd. You had to assist or you would die and death was bad, like really bad. There were lots of unique roles and they were all needed.

Now we basically have one role, its called dps and to add to this, now all dps basically use the same skills. The game has become so "un"-unique, its a true shame.

Starlock

Neoauspex wrote: »

I miss really old school, MUD style, where if you died you character was #$@-&+? gone.

Also, actual RP centered communities with active GMs who facilitated the in-game stories directly.

I never played early MMOs, but I did play MUDs. The only thing I miss about them is the stronger RP. And maybe the rich text-based descriptions of everything. And the lack of power gamers and the existence of the term “meta” in the ones I used. And the utter absence of microtransactions. Or any need to pay any money for any of it.

Okay, come to think of it, there are lots of things MUDs did better....

tizodd

eso_lytw8 wrote: »

tizodd wrote: »

I suppose it's not horrible that everyone can do everything, but I do miss actually needing roles for things. Now-a-days, even many vet dungeons can be completed with 4 dps (minus the newer stuff).

I do miss the days when groups needed a tank, healer, and dps. Tanks and healers didn't do enough damage to effectively complete things alone; and dps would be killed by hard-hitting enemies if they went at it alone. So everyone had a use. It seems like so many mmo's now are making it so everyone is essentially a jack-of-all-trades.

Now, I'm not suggesting we return to the days of Everquest, when camping bosses and organizing raids took over people's lives. But I do wish classes had a more unique feel again.

Anyone else miss the days when we couldn't just run through a dungeon willy-nilly with dps giving no fvcks?

Yes I do miss this immensely. I was a day 1 everquester. The game was brutal and the brutal elements I do not miss. But I do miss that you needed a tank, a healer, a messer, and damage dealers. Without a group that had roles a group of regular mobs could waste a full team.

ZOS has killed the healer, noone even wants one. In everquest it was incredibly fun to go crazy dealing damage and knew you life depended on others...the tank to take agro, you needed pullers, the healer to bring you back from the brink of death, an enchanter or bard to control the crowd. You had to assist or you would die and death was bad, like really bad. There were lots of unique roles and they were all needed.

Now we basically have one role, its called dps and to add to this, now all dps basically use the same skills. The game has become so "un"-unique, its a true shame.

You get exactly where I'm coming from. It was fun when there were actual "glass cannons" that could demolish enemies, but would also get demolished by enemies if they didn't have a meat-shield and healer to absorb the brunt of the damage. And as you mentioned, enchanters, bards, etc to cc or charm tougher enemies and buff teammates so things don't get out of hand.

There was strategy then. A good group make-up, with people who knew how to play their class, was the difference between success and defeat. Current mmo's are so geared toward solo play that grouping is essentially only for gear. Many players can solo most dungeons now. And everyone can run around as a hybrid dps/tank/healer. The uniqueness of roles is all but gone.

Agobi

Simplifying and dumbing down has reached epic proportions I think

No wonder everyone is releasing "classic" *insert MMO here* .....nostalgia for the good old days is big business


personally I miss SWG.....soo much

Sylosi

Yes, because every game that I've played that tries some sort of very open flexible build system where each class can perform multiple roles suffers from the same problems - bad balance, homogenization of classes / skills and a lot of powercreep.

Kiyakotari

There's a great screen going around of WoW Classic, and the current WoW Classic experience (and no, I'm not talking about the myriad server problem ones). On one hand, it illustrates the strength of community cooperation, organization, and consideration that must be born out of a system that has rigorous demands on people, with respawn timers and roles and such being what they are. On the other hand, it's a screencap of upwards of 100 players standing in a long line to kill a single mob as it respawns so that they can complete an objective, with one player (presumably the person who took the screen) in the middle of the line saying "respect the line."

FML, no, I'll go to a free-for-all before I'll go to that. Personally, I'm happy with ESO's middle ground.

Kiyakotari

Agobi wrote: »

No wonder everyone is releasing "classic" *insert MMO here* .....nostalgia for the good old days is big business

What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that a lot of the "nostalgia" aspects" of gaming come from the place we were (intellectually, developmentally, culturally) at the time we were playing those games. Going back to them now, even the exact same original experiences, will not feel the same, and will in some cases "ruin" the memories of the original experience.

My most fond memories of gaming as a child are LOOM and Zack McCracken and the Alien Mindbenders and The Secret of Monkey Island, and then later on, Captain Keen. I will not touch the Captain Keen spinoff, I do not want anything to do with the re-release of Monkey Island. Not because they're bad, but because I'm a different person, and I want to keep those old memories, not try to recreate old experiences that are long past.

RexyCat

Neoauspex wrote: »

I miss really old school, MUD style, where if you died you character was #$@-&+? gone.

Didn't people already in MUD use methods to avoid getting a reset as that what is was when you did die, you could just start a new character?

//RexyCat

Aurie

Yes and no.

On the one hand the Holy Trinity is old skool and great for class identity and grouping, and I'm all for that.

On the other hand being a Jack of All Trades is very important for solo players. And being a solo player, I'm all for that.

Knootewoot

tizodd wrote: »

I suppose it's not horrible that everyone can do everything, but I do miss actually needing roles for things. Now-a-days, even many vet dungeons can be completed with 4 dps (minus the newer stuff).

I do miss the days when groups needed a tank, healer, and dps. Tanks and healers didn't do enough damage to effectively complete things alone; and dps would be killed by hard-hitting enemies if they went at it alone. So everyone had a use. It seems like so many mmo's now are making it so everyone is essentially a jack-of-all-trades.

Now, I'm not suggesting we return to the days of Everquest, when camping bosses and organizing raids took over people's lives. But I do wish classes had a more unique feel again.

Anyone else miss the days when we couldn't just run through a dungeon willy-nilly with dps giving no [snip]?

The reason I am waiting and pledged 300 euro to Pantheon.

Yes, the game might fail once it comes out. But I do miss the old style mom's and its worth a shot.

Grandma

playing a bit of wow classic has made me miss the distinction of roles and class identity, and i do miss challenge/levels scaling a bit. But ESO still is lightyears past most mmos i've tried out.

Darkenarlol

nope. like not at all

same with real school

it is one of the best things in the world -

to grow up

GhostofDatthaw

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Not a bit. Happy soloist here.

If you want to solo go play an RPG


Yes I want more class and role identity. Everyone being able to do everything is why this game sucks now. If you don't want to team up with other people to play a game maybe a MMO is not for you.

Neoauspex

RexyCat wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

I miss really old school, MUD style, where if you died you character was #$@-&+? gone.

Didn't people already in MUD use methods to avoid getting a reset as that what is was when you did die, you could just start a new character?

//RexyCat

I didn't, I just played carefully cause there were stakes

Wayshuba

eso_lytw8 wrote: »

Now we basically have one role, its called dps and to add to this, now all dps basically use the same skills. The game has become so "un"-unique, its a true shame.

Thank the latest patch for this. They have now homogenized things so much that you wonder why we even have classes anymore. Regardless of class, on front bar take two hand with dizzy swing, execute, critical rush/stampede, barbed trap and a buff plus Onslaught. On backback with bow you have Arrow Barrage, Poison Injection, Soul Trap, Entropy and Vigor.

Hmmm, wonder why everyone is looking the exact same when there is basically one slot (the buff) to add a class skill.

They really messed up the game with this latest patch. Every class now plays the same and it is so BORING.