Played World of Warcraft recently...

Iccotak

Post has been edited to show the videos that were in the "Spoiler" tag because I think alot of people in this thread didn't see them.

bluebird

Iccotak wrote: »

Post has been edited to show the videos that were in the "Spoiler" tag because I think alot of people in this thread didn't see them.

Not a lot of people will sit through 25 minutes of video by a random Youtube content creator, just so they can see whether that supports the opinion of a random Forum thread creator.

That said, I did watch the two videos on quest design and if you think that somehow proves that ESO's quests are superior, you're wrong. The video's creator criticizes MMOs for basically using the same couple of quest types (Fetch something, Kill something, Deliver something, etc.) and praises exploratory quests that require high player engagement and research. In one of my comments, I also pointed out that The Secret World had actually engaging quests (just as the video creator praised that quest design).

But when it comes to ESO, it is demonstrably on the 'wrong' side of quest design as far as the video's criteria are concerned, because it's literally the same boring MMO quests but with extra dialogue. See my direct comparison between ESO's Rift main story and WoW's Nazmir main story. Both questlines tell you where to go and funnel you towards an area where you're expected to kill mobs and do objectives. They all have map pins showing you what you need to interact with so there is no research involved. They all involve the same repetitive objectives (fetch this, kill this mob, destroy whatevers, interact with that thing, etc). And that's the majority of gameplay, we don't have to look at side quests (if we did, it still wouldn't look particularly good for ESO since many of its side quests are just 'I found an item in a delve, I should deliver it to an NPC').

ESO's quests don't require more engagement than WoW's quests, and in ESO quest givers will often just run up to you to give you quests so you can't even miss them. You can say that you like ESO's quests more, or that you were more interested in a bunch of Nords asking you for help with their mine being taken over, than you were interested in recruiting the aid of the Loa to help Talanji secure Nazmir from the blood trolls. But that's a personal opinion. And when it comes to facts, ESO's quest designs are just as uninspired as WoWs - with the only difference being the dialogue and more frequent choices.

Linaleah

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

haha

I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.

Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.

becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.

oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)

current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut

That's exactly what I did?

Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?

I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.

pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.

as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.

Unless a post has been deleted, no one has posted a picture of WoW's old orc model. Only the new ones.

I was one who did that, since earlier someone decided to compare WoW orcs with ESO ones in looks by using professional artwork for the former, while using a badly taken ingame screenshot for the latter.
So I switched it around to point out it was a ridiculous way to compare.

could have sworn it was the other way around, and the post where wow orc which WAS an old low rez model btw came first, was being compared to artwork of ESO orc - was posted first.

i cannot find that post now, but it doesn't matter, new orc models have been posted several times already with fair comparison to in game ESO orcs, so they look just fine. different art style but definitely not green blobs or anything like that.

its literally a matter of preference. cartoonish=/=bad. its just style.

They look like green globs with teeth to me. The armor on that game is also incredibly dumb looking. But as you say - I suppose it's a matter of opinion. I liked the environmental graphics on WoW classic. But the character graphics were atrocious.

In any case: the post I responded to was not responding to any comparison that was previously made. Just go observe Vanos's post for yourself and you will see no quote in his post. He started this with his inaccurate comparison of movie graphic WoW Orcs compared to in-game ESO orcs and I was simply pointing out the obvious flaws in his comparison (as did several others before me by adopting his own tactics to show how flawed they were).

So first you accused me of making a post I never did. Then you accused me of not understanding the context of a discussion I actually understood just fine.

we must be looking at very different images cause i'm not sure how this


... looks like green glob with teeth, but no matter.

if i had mixed up which image comparison came first? sorry.

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I strongly disagree about "engaging" part. There are amazing engaging quests in WoW. Just give me an example from ESO quest line which beats BRAVO company quest line in WoW.

I've played WoW for years, have and played the latest expansion and I literally have no idea which quest like you are talking about. O_O

there WERE some pretty cool quest chains in wow, no doubt about that, I still remember Linken quests for example with equal frustration and fondness, Pamela's doll was heartbreaking and quest chains in wrath of the lichking that tied into Warcraft 3 were fantastic if you were a fan of the universe prior to WoW.

but at the same time, there are so many more quest chains in ESO that were just if not more memorable for me. so i don't know.... to each their own?

Bravo company is vanilla quest line for alliance, where you need to consequently save 5 prisoners who are sort of marines/rock-n-roll racing guys and then kick some orc's a**es together. Quest design is beyond beautiful, you actually need to think and use some tactics to have any chance to complete it and there is great writing and serious dramatic end.

"To each their own" - exactly. I simply can't comprehend how somebody can place ESO's quests above Skyrim's quests for example, but I met ton of people who actually can't stand TES single player but absolutely in love with ESO, so I guess this is matter of personal preferences. There are different genres of literature, movies, different kind of sports. ESO is some different kind of MMO and different kind of RPG in comparison to other mass-market games..

But what's most funny, we can see that many people dislike ESO combat system but love overland/questing, while many have exactly opposite opinion that combat is fun, but overland boring... maybe ESO problem is that they took so many different features and landed in out-of-genre territory and so game causes very mixed opinions. I think that aside from performance issues where all the negative is completely justified, in other things ESO is treated too harsh by players.

I see that people post how they can't enter WoW classic due to huge queues and they post this light-heartedly as some fun fact without negative, and if we remember what happened when ESO introduced login queues and amount of hate that followed..

yeah, that's probably why i don't remember it. even though i have alliance characters, quests that are memorable to me, have some sort of interesting story to them rather then mechanics. edited oh.. its the redone original zones. even though they tried to make overall zone stories more coherent vs original vanila zones, something was just.. lost in translation. I never actualy played through westfall post Cataclysm. well.. I started to and it annoyed me so I moved on to other zones/running dungeons to get through the 1-60 experience on proceed to Outland (burning crusade version of it) which I actualy contrary to many people opinions - really really like (especially Nagrand stories, both alliance and hordeside)
I'm also one of those people who dislikes ESO combat, but loves the world and quests so much that it kinda balances out my dislike for combat. (it was pretty much the same experience for me when playing KOTOR games - the single player ones. hated the combat, but played anyways becasue story and characters sucked me in, hilariously though with something like Borderlands or Destiny, it was the combat that got me to keep playing and then I got sucked into the story as well - funny, cause normally I'm not the biggest fan of first person shooters, first person view just feels uncomfortable for me. but I digress)

I do agree that people are pretty hypocritical when it comes to problems in ESO, vs the same exact problems in other games. but that's just... people

There are definitely interesting quest chains both in vanilla WoW and the after-Cataclysm world, if we are talking about the lvl1-60 experience. I played mainly Alliance, so I have more memories about those: waking Stitches in Duskwood, The Legend of Stalvan also in Duskwood, helping escape Marshall Windsor from Blackrock Depths and seeing Lady Prestor to turn into Onyxia in the throne room... Untangling little Pamela Redpath's past in EPL or finishing The Missing Diplomat. After Cataclysm - I found the CSI: Westfall hilarious, I enjoyed the Bravo Company in Redridge Mountains, and I almost cried thanks to Rhea in Badlands. There is also in Badlands the most hilarious quest in every MMO called The Day Deathwing Came

Both ESO and WoW uses the "one story per one zone, and an overarching bigger story" method, so I think the two games are not that different regarding that (at least now). I also enjoy the cinematics at the end of the WoW zones made with the in-game engine, which are featuring our characters too. I think the first one was the Wrathgate - and that was beyond epic. That's something which is simply not present in ESO, and I miss that dearly.

removing wrathgate pieces somewhat recently was a gosh darn crime (I'm pretty certain they removed undercity portion of it, because i don't remember being able to do this when I was going through Dragonblight again more recently) . that quest chain WAS pretty epic.

that said... one of the main things that i prefer ESO to WoW post cataclysm is that I can do story bits in any order in ESO, even within the same zone. in WoW, they made it so damn linear, you really cannot do that anymore. you used to be able to just move on to a different hub and quest there, but now, you have to do a whole bunch of prerequisites before you can even unlock that hub. in their quest for zone cohesion, they essentially removed discovery and exploration in WoW and it just feels... far too railroaded.

I do enjoy in game cinematics, but the thing is... technically ESO has those too. it just doesn't take away control of the character or camera from you. with a lot of the quests, npc's will have dialogue interactions little dramas unfolding as you progress the story for them, which you can watch.. or walk away from. and in the end, I think its a matter of preference whether you want to watch someone else's camerawork and angles, or chose your own.

Pamela's story still breaks my heart though.

redridge mountains, huh.. pretty sure I quested through entire redridge mountains post cataclysm and i STILL cannot remember that Bravo company story. guess i just didn't find it as memorable? i remember the zone, but quests in it? nope. I think there was something about infiltration and poison in there somewhere?

Oberick

Eso is designed to hunt whales, while WoW is designed to take some money from everyone.

I have spent less money subbing for WoW for its entire lifetime and buying the occasional store mount then I have in a single year or two for ESO when I "needed" certain items from a couple khajiit scam crates and wanted to build several houses that the majority never end up being finished because they never increased the item cap or have invisible walls that shouldn't exist like the wall of earthtear cavern. And that was when they actually had good crown sales.

I will say at least ESO isn't as Scammy as mobile games like Raid Shadow Legends. Everything about that game is designed to try and make you spend cash, even most events now require you to spend quite a bit of money. They have been on a kick recently of sponsoring a ton of youtuber's video. Do not fall for it. It's a game for only super whales. Free2Play players will likely never compete unless they save up for years then waste all their stuff on a single event and normal whales will have to pick what events they end up spending money on.

Ydrisselle

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

haha

I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.

Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.

becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.

oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)

current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut

That's exactly what I did?

Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?

I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.

pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.

as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.

Unless a post has been deleted, no one has posted a picture of WoW's old orc model. Only the new ones.

I was one who did that, since earlier someone decided to compare WoW orcs with ESO ones in looks by using professional artwork for the former, while using a badly taken ingame screenshot for the latter.
So I switched it around to point out it was a ridiculous way to compare.

could have sworn it was the other way around, and the post where wow orc which WAS an old low rez model btw came first, was being compared to artwork of ESO orc - was posted first.

i cannot find that post now, but it doesn't matter, new orc models have been posted several times already with fair comparison to in game ESO orcs, so they look just fine. different art style but definitely not green blobs or anything like that.

its literally a matter of preference. cartoonish=/=bad. its just style.

They look like green globs with teeth to me. The armor on that game is also incredibly dumb looking. But as you say - I suppose it's a matter of opinion. I liked the environmental graphics on WoW classic. But the character graphics were atrocious.

In any case: the post I responded to was not responding to any comparison that was previously made. Just go observe Vanos's post for yourself and you will see no quote in his post. He started this with his inaccurate comparison of movie graphic WoW Orcs compared to in-game ESO orcs and I was simply pointing out the obvious flaws in his comparison (as did several others before me by adopting his own tactics to show how flawed they were).

So first you accused me of making a post I never did. Then you accused me of not understanding the context of a discussion I actually understood just fine.

we must be looking at very different images cause i'm not sure how this


... looks like green glob with teeth, but no matter.

if i had mixed up which image comparison came first? sorry.

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I strongly disagree about "engaging" part. There are amazing engaging quests in WoW. Just give me an example from ESO quest line which beats BRAVO company quest line in WoW.

I've played WoW for years, have and played the latest expansion and I literally have no idea which quest like you are talking about. O_O

there WERE some pretty cool quest chains in wow, no doubt about that, I still remember Linken quests for example with equal frustration and fondness, Pamela's doll was heartbreaking and quest chains in wrath of the lichking that tied into Warcraft 3 were fantastic if you were a fan of the universe prior to WoW.

but at the same time, there are so many more quest chains in ESO that were just if not more memorable for me. so i don't know.... to each their own?

Bravo company is vanilla quest line for alliance, where you need to consequently save 5 prisoners who are sort of marines/rock-n-roll racing guys and then kick some orc's a**es together. Quest design is beyond beautiful, you actually need to think and use some tactics to have any chance to complete it and there is great writing and serious dramatic end.

"To each their own" - exactly. I simply can't comprehend how somebody can place ESO's quests above Skyrim's quests for example, but I met ton of people who actually can't stand TES single player but absolutely in love with ESO, so I guess this is matter of personal preferences. There are different genres of literature, movies, different kind of sports. ESO is some different kind of MMO and different kind of RPG in comparison to other mass-market games..

But what's most funny, we can see that many people dislike ESO combat system but love overland/questing, while many have exactly opposite opinion that combat is fun, but overland boring... maybe ESO problem is that they took so many different features and landed in out-of-genre territory and so game causes very mixed opinions. I think that aside from performance issues where all the negative is completely justified, in other things ESO is treated too harsh by players.

I see that people post how they can't enter WoW classic due to huge queues and they post this light-heartedly as some fun fact without negative, and if we remember what happened when ESO introduced login queues and amount of hate that followed..

yeah, that's probably why i don't remember it. even though i have alliance characters, quests that are memorable to me, have some sort of interesting story to them rather then mechanics. edited oh.. its the redone original zones. even though they tried to make overall zone stories more coherent vs original vanila zones, something was just.. lost in translation. I never actualy played through westfall post Cataclysm. well.. I started to and it annoyed me so I moved on to other zones/running dungeons to get through the 1-60 experience on proceed to Outland (burning crusade version of it) which I actualy contrary to many people opinions - really really like (especially Nagrand stories, both alliance and hordeside)
I'm also one of those people who dislikes ESO combat, but loves the world and quests so much that it kinda balances out my dislike for combat. (it was pretty much the same experience for me when playing KOTOR games - the single player ones. hated the combat, but played anyways becasue story and characters sucked me in, hilariously though with something like Borderlands or Destiny, it was the combat that got me to keep playing and then I got sucked into the story as well - funny, cause normally I'm not the biggest fan of first person shooters, first person view just feels uncomfortable for me. but I digress)

I do agree that people are pretty hypocritical when it comes to problems in ESO, vs the same exact problems in other games. but that's just... people

There are definitely interesting quest chains both in vanilla WoW and the after-Cataclysm world, if we are talking about the lvl1-60 experience. I played mainly Alliance, so I have more memories about those: waking Stitches in Duskwood, The Legend of Stalvan also in Duskwood, helping escape Marshall Windsor from Blackrock Depths and seeing Lady Prestor to turn into Onyxia in the throne room... Untangling little Pamela Redpath's past in EPL or finishing The Missing Diplomat. After Cataclysm - I found the CSI: Westfall hilarious, I enjoyed the Bravo Company in Redridge Mountains, and I almost cried thanks to Rhea in Badlands. There is also in Badlands the most hilarious quest in every MMO called The Day Deathwing Came

Both ESO and WoW uses the "one story per one zone, and an overarching bigger story" method, so I think the two games are not that different regarding that (at least now). I also enjoy the cinematics at the end of the WoW zones made with the in-game engine, which are featuring our characters too. I think the first one was the Wrathgate - and that was beyond epic. That's something which is simply not present in ESO, and I miss that dearly.

removing wrathgate pieces somewhat recently was a gosh darn crime (I'm pretty certain they removed undercity portion of it, because i don't remember being able to do this when I was going through Dragonblight again more recently) . that quest chain WAS pretty epic.

that said... one of the main things that i prefer ESO to WoW post cataclysm is that I can do story bits in any order in ESO, even within the same zone. in WoW, they made it so damn linear, you really cannot do that anymore. you used to be able to just move on to a different hub and quest there, but now, you have to do a whole bunch of prerequisites before you can even unlock that hub. in their quest for zone cohesion, they essentially removed discovery and exploration in WoW and it just feels... far too railroaded.

I do enjoy in game cinematics, but the thing is... technically ESO has those too. it just doesn't take away control of the character or camera from you. with a lot of the quests, npc's will have dialogue interactions little dramas unfolding as you progress the story for them, which you can watch.. or walk away from. and in the end, I think its a matter of preference whether you want to watch someone else's camerawork and angles, or chose your own.

Pamela's story still breaks my heart though.

redridge mountains, huh.. pretty sure I quested through entire redridge mountains post cataclysm and i STILL cannot remember that Bravo company story. guess i just didn't find it as memorable? i remember the zone, but quests in it? nope. I think there was something about infiltration and poison in there somewhere?

Post-Cata Redridge starts essentially in Lakeshire, where you have to find John J. Keeshan, a veteran of the Second War (or the First? I'm not sure any more...). He is in the cellar of the inn doing illegal fighting. You have to pull him out by collecting his old gear and weapons, and rescue his old comrades, the Bravo Company. After you did it, the team will take you in and you have to stop the orcs invading Redridge - yes, you have to infiltrate their camp, poison them and at the end blow up the entire orc warcamp. So it's pretty much Rambo II or Rambo III, I'm not even sure which one.

The "scene through in-game dialog" was already done in vanilla WoW, Rift and pretty much every single MMO with a little coherent story. Just they didn't use voice acting for most of the part - however it also happened as soon as Wrath of the Lich King, I'm sure everybody remembers Rhonin declaring us winners after somebody killed Algalon and finished the quest for it...
Parts of Wrathgate were removed after Cataclysm, since the associated maps - that means mostly the original Undercity - weren't available any more.

Back to ESO, I found the quests here on par with WoW: there are many interesting ones, some are world-threatening and some are very definitely not - but still unforgettable (like the dying bosmer pair in Greenshade or the "who to save" decision in Bal Foyen).

Linaleah

Ydrisselle wrote: »

Post-Cata Redridge starts essentially in Lakeshire, where you have to find John J. Keeshan, a veteran of the Second War (or the First? I'm not sure any more...). He is in the cellar of the inn doing illegal fighting. You have to pull him out by collecting his old gear and weapons, and rescue his old comrades, the Bravo Company. After you did it, the team will take you in and you have to stop the orcs invading Redridge - yes, you have to infiltrate their camp, poison them and at the end blow up the entire orc warcamp. So it's pretty much Rambo II or Rambo III, I'm not even sure which one.

The "scene through in-game dialog" was already done in vanilla WoW, Rift and pretty much every single MMO with a little coherent story. Just they didn't use voice acting for most of the part - however it also happened as soon as Wrath of the Lich King, I'm sure everybody remembers Rhonin declaring us winners after somebody killed Algalon and finished the quest for it...
Parts of Wrathgate were removed after Cataclysm, since the associated maps - that means mostly the original Undercity - weren't available any more.

Back to ESO, I found the quests here on par with WoW: there are many interesting ones, some are world-threatening and some are very definitely not - but still unforgettable (like the dying bosmer pair in Greenshade or the "who to save" decision in Bal Foyen).

yeah, i think I just didn't find it any more memorable than Rambo sequels themselves. i didn't even realize it was Rambo redux, though I'm 100% not surprised - Blizzard looooves their pop culture references :P (i mean one of my fave stories from original WoW is basically legend of Zelda reference)

the Algalon thing was actualy going all the way back to Vanilla and Netharian (I don't remember if Onyxia got her own announcement - she might have, but Netharian certainly did and his head would hang in public square in Ogrimmar at least, haven't spent enouigh time in Stormwind to know if alliance got their own version. probably did, i just HATE Stormwind, so whenever i played alliance, my base was usually Darnassus

but that's not the kind of in game cutscenes I'm talking about. I think those kinds existed in other games as well without voice acting, but I'm taking actual scenes - with people interacting, moving around, playing out a... scene. like when Naryu flirts with a dude you are trying to distract and leads him away and than you see her torturing him, on a smaller scale - or a lot of the post quest interactions all over the place, or heck... something that most people miss, but entire flashbacks playing out in Crypt of hearts, telling you a backstory of what happened in that place.

they can get pretty involved.

I love a lot of the stories in ESO, from the little one shot quests (like one of the first stories that stuck with me was in a delve, where cultists were trying to resurrect some famous warlord for their nefarious goals, but it turns out to be the museum that this delve is - didn't have a budget for actual warlord bones, so they end up resurrecting a dead student whose spirit you rescue (he died in an accident). that story was simultaneously hilarious and just so incredibly morbid, it stuck in my head) to full on ongoing storylines (I know its not the most original story, but it just resonated with me - Malabar Tor story of Green Lady and her former best friend of a "nice guy" tm, and speaking of Malabar Tor - wood orc quest chain literally inspired one of my characters, orc DK)

there were some really good stories in WoW as well, but the last one I remember myself genuinely enjoying was a sort of lengthy story that starts on the edge of Kun Lai summit - helping shadow pan and continues into Townlong steps. after that, the stories IMO started to downgrade in quality. or they are more cinematic and continuous, but just.. not as enjoyable. ZoS has been IMO actualy improving their stories with each expansion. Blizzard let their stories and characters run away from them, so even though stories technically are continuous, they are incoherent, becasue characters and timelines are incredibly inconsistent. kinda almost reminds me of Game of Thrones, the TV show. visuals keep getting better, but the character consistency and story logic - goes out the window.

majulook

I played WOW about a year ago, I played it for a month it was fun but I just could not get past that the graphics. The game looked like a 1970 cartoon.

Jurand80

I tried wow when it came out. Don't know if i even got to lvl 10 coz questing and lvling was so mind numbing. I gave eso a try... Stayed for 3 years till nerfmire. No other mmo has gotten me so hooked for so long.

P.s. i cannot wait to dive into warcraft 3 remastered!

Ydrisselle

majulook wrote: »

I played WOW about a year ago, I played it for a month it was fun but I just could not get past that the graphics. The game looked like a 1970 cartoon.

Its look come from Warcraft III. I think it completely fits the world.

Elsonso

Ydrisselle wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

I played WOW about a year ago, I played it for a month it was fun but I just could not get past that the graphics. The game looked like a 1970 cartoon.

Its look come from Warcraft III. I think it completely fits the world.

Which is, apparently, based on a 1970s cartoon.

The goofy graphics are one of the reasons I was never comfortable playing the game. Coming from an Elder Scrolls background, it was not endearing.

Facefister

The only counter arguments here are "the old graphics!" or "no voiced kill 7 rabbits quests".

Nemesis7884

id immediately jump onto the wow train...id be really in the mood for it but i just dont have the time to no life it

Bouldercleave

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

Did you really just compare actual game graphics to concept art?!? That is a whole new level of *** stupid.

CaptainBones

I don't think i could ever go back to it tbh. Questing and combat are two major things for me in an MMO and eso just does them better. I actually enjoy questing in eso and often just love listening to the dialogue and following the story. In WoW it feels more like a chore than a journey or experience. Something to get through. The combat is severely outdated now aswell but i don't know if they can even change it at this point, probably would require the entire game to be built again. I've never liked tab targeting in games, even before eso came out so it just makes it look even worse imo.

WoW's strength is it's instanced pve content and the art/design of zones. It's still the best for raiding and the art team always knock it out the park with designing the zones but the content side of things is lacking to say the least. It's just rep grind and time gated grinding for flying and i heard 8.2 only added about 2 hours worth of actual quests. Even when it does get quests, they still aren't at the same level as ESO.

So outside of raiding and the zone designs I'm struggling to think of much that wow does better to be honest. There's tons of specs but in eso you aren't limited by class and can actually wear what you want, build what you want and use what you want. Vampire bloodmage? Go ahead. Spellsword? Knock yourself out. Plate wearing battlemage? Go for it. The ability to customise your character and make what you want just adds to the experience and the build options only ever grow as more classes and skill lines are added. One skill line and one class can add so many different options. The necromancer alone can be built as you see fit. Cloth wearing lich frost necro, frost and blood death knight, unholy dk... the combinations are there. That's what i love about ESO's class system. It may not have 13 classes off the bat but when you start combining them with other skill lines, armour pieces, weapons ect it starts to offer more build variety. I've seen people not even use weapons at all and just tank everything with fists and a wedding dress.

Then there's all the nice features on the side. Player housing, the motif transmog system which is a lot more customizable than WoW with the ability to recolour and wear/use what you want regardless of armour type ect. Hell, they even took away tier sets. Reduced the amount of sets from 12 to what, 4? I get that the bonuses weren't the easiest for balancing but they could have found another way. Each class set felt unique to them but they just cut them down and replaced it with raid themed armour azerite (another gimmick that will become left behindnext year like garrisons and artifact weapons). The lore/writing seems to be better than current wow as well when you compare the latest chapters to bfa. There seems to be more to do in the world and 90 percent of the zones don't feel obsolete since 1T because of scaling. Go to any zone, do any storyline regardless of level or faction. Play with your friends who are in a different faction ect and I'm sure I'm missing other things too.

I can't comment on pvp. I have played pvp in wow but not ESO. For PvE though, eso wins in almost every category bar end game instanced content like raiding. I feel like they should just take the "world" out of "world of warcraft" because the zones aren't treated with the love they deserve. The art team put their heart and soul into them but the content and writing team just kinda throw them aside.

I've been doing dragon fights with groups of about 20 people recently and it's been so much fun. Even if i don't get a good drop i still think it was worth my time for the experience alone and the social part of it. Me and my brother even met a couple of people who stayed after we killed the dragon and one of them started talking to us because our characters had similar names to her alts. She invited us to her guild and showed us her mansion that had every single crafting table for every single set. It was amazing. We then spent a couple of hours doing dolmens with her and helping her collect stuff she needed for potions. It was a great time. I even grouped up with people doing dolmens in davon's watch and was playing through public dungeons with randoms in older zones. I can't even remember the last time i even saw anybody in pre legion zone outside of capitals, never mind talking to them. The community is great on ESO too. When i first started there was a guy who actually crafted me over 300 rubedite daggers so i could get my blacksmithing to 50. Absolute legend. There's been about 5 people who messaged my brother the other day when he started levelling a necro asking him if he wanted any gear because they thought he was new. People go above and beyond and that's what i love about this community.

The sub system is better in ESO too in my opinion. I'd rather play without a sub if it ever ran out and have an optional sub that gives great benefits than HAVE to pay for a sub with real money or gold and only get the ability to play with no other benefits at all. I just went on a spending spree recently with all the crowns i had saved up and i still have a bunch left over.

WoW just lacks a lot of things that make other MMO's great. It feels like a chore and a waste of a sub every time i have gone back there for a new expansion. The social aspect that classic supposed to have had is definitely not there any more and the community in general is not as welcoming as ESO's either and there tends to be a lot more toxicity in my experience which makes it a lot more daunting for newer players. The cynic in me also believes that they didn't do wow classic because of years of requests but because they are losing subs. I even got free game time given to me which i never even used. A company that cares about what it's players want doesn't have pc diablo fans paying $200 for a blizzcon ticket so they can give them the finger and announce diablo immortal for mobile. That's just my personal opinion.

In the end, wow still does amazing looking zones and the best raiding in any MMO but outside of that i can't think of much else it does the best. Other MMO's have caught up and surpassed it in many areas and that's because blizz spent so much time on the throne that they got lazy and gave other companies time to catch up. They were miles ahead for so many years but now they are falling behind and are no longer the kings of the MMO genre.

Just my 2 cents, sorry for long post.