Played World of Warcraft recently...

Inaya

Urusovite wrote: »

But WoW Devs are actually listening to the players and uhh their game works

Not true in the least. Wow devs and Blizzard in general has shown a total lack of respect for their players in the last year. I played since Vanilla and never unsubbed once in all that time.

When they started taking away achievement points, changing how something you grinded rep to get worked (taking water walking away from a mount whose sole purpose was water walking) and a plethora of other things, I said I'm done.

I do, ever now and again, think about my character and everything I accomplished on her, but I've never felt more unimportant in a game before, so I'm gone for good.

Linaleah

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I strongly disagree about "engaging" part. There are amazing engaging quests in WoW. Just give me an example from ESO quest line which beats BRAVO company quest line in WoW.

I've played WoW for years, have and played the latest expansion and I literally have no idea which quest like you are talking about. O_O

there WERE some pretty cool quest chains in wow, no doubt about that, I still remember Linken quests for example with equal frustration and fondness, Pamela's doll was heartbreaking and quest chains in wrath of the lichking that tied into Warcraft 3 were fantastic if you were a fan of the universe prior to WoW.

but at the same time, there are so many more quest chains in ESO that were just if not more memorable for me. so i don't know.... to each their own?

Bravo company is vanilla quest line for alliance, where you need to consequently save 5 prisoners who are sort of marines/rock-n-roll racing guys and then kick some orc's a**es together. Quest design is beyond beautiful, you actually need to think and use some tactics to have any chance to complete it and there is great writing and serious dramatic end.

"To each their own" - exactly. I simply can't comprehend how somebody can place ESO's quests above Skyrim's quests for example, but I met ton of people who actually can't stand TES single player but absolutely in love with ESO, so I guess this is matter of personal preferences. There are different genres of literature, movies, different kind of sports. ESO is some different kind of MMO and different kind of RPG in comparison to other mass-market games..

But what's most funny, we can see that many people dislike ESO combat system but love overland/questing, while many have exactly opposite opinion that combat is fun, but overland boring... maybe ESO problem is that they took so many different features and landed in out-of-genre territory and so game causes very mixed opinions. I think that aside from performance issues where all the negative is completely justified, in other things ESO is treated too harsh by players.

I see that people post how they can't enter WoW classic due to huge queues and they post this light-heartedly as some fun fact without negative, and if we remember what happened when ESO introduced login queues and amount of hate that followed..

yeah, that's probably why i don't remember it. even though i have alliance characters, quests that are memorable to me, have some sort of interesting story to them rather then mechanics. edited oh.. its the redone original zones. even though they tried to make overall zone stories more coherent vs original vanila zones, something was just.. lost in translation. I never actualy played through westfall post Cataclysm. well.. I started to and it annoyed me so I moved on to other zones/running dungeons to get through the 1-60 experience on proceed to Outland (burning crusade version of it) which I actualy contrary to many people opinions - really really like (especially Nagrand stories, both alliance and hordeside)
I'm also one of those people who dislikes ESO combat, but loves the world and quests so much that it kinda balances out my dislike for combat. (it was pretty much the same experience for me when playing KOTOR games - the single player ones. hated the combat, but played anyways becasue story and characters sucked me in, hilariously though with something like Borderlands or Destiny, it was the combat that got me to keep playing and then I got sucked into the story as well - funny, cause normally I'm not the biggest fan of first person shooters, first person view just feels uncomfortable for me. but I digress)

I do agree that people are pretty hypocritical when it comes to problems in ESO, vs the same exact problems in other games. but that's just... people

Jeremy

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

haha

I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.

Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.

Iccotak

Fixed Orcs

WoW


ESO

Luede

wow is a nice game if u have a lot of time. In classic i cleared every existing content, but that means raiding 4-5 days in a week and every raid lasts 5+ hours. beside the raiding u have to farm a lot of hours to get all buffs and equip u need for ur raids.

if u think about playing wow classic, u need a lot of time. this game is 80% gear and 20% skill, eso is 80% skill and 20% gear.

Linaleah

Jeremy wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

haha

I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.

Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.

becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.

oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)

current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut

Odovacar

The graphics was a big turn off to me. It's way too cartoonish and for that reason I never played WoW. No disrespect to those who love/loved the game for all it was worth though... just my opinion.

Jeremy

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

haha

I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.

Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.

becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.

oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)

current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut

That's exactly what I did?

Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?

I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.

Linaleah

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

haha

I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.

Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.

becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.

oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)

current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut

That's exactly what I did?

Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?

I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.

pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.

as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.

Grandma

This post didn't go the way i expected. pleasantly surprised.


I've personally been playing classic a bit the past few days to see what the hype is about. figured i'd hate it. Actually really enjoying it for some reason? There are some things vanilla wow from 2004 does better than ANY mmo [including eso] on the current market, and I'd like to point out one of these is also in the works for ESO and could be just as good or better.

1) class identity.
Every class is super distinct, has specific niche uses, and is easily identifiable, and all have unique gameplay elements and things that complement each other. Priests and mages running around buffing each other, warlock with their giant cool pets, etc. It's very nice and I love that each class plays super differently and it's super enjoyable. ESO is on the cusp of reworking classes and class passives. I sincerely hope they give us something outside of the same reskinned skill trees of heal/tank/dps ie. the dps trees all have a spammable, an aoe, a single target, another aoe, a summon. Why have classes if they're all just particle effect differences, y'know? it's a very fine line that I hope ZOS manages to balance.

2) this one's weird. I hated retail wow's questing because it felt horrible and bad. It was like the whole "collect 5 rat tails" and then it puts a big glowing circle on the map, points you where to go, shows you how to do, then you go back. What's the point of that? it's like being a cog in a machine, or completing a task that isn't fun for no reason except to complete it. It recently struck me that ESO is the same way. The only thing holding ESO floating above all that junk is that it has great storytelling and voice acting and writing. I never realized before how much I dislike being told where to go and how to do it by arrows and pointers and circles on the map, it makes questing a chore.
in classic, you have to read the dialogue, check your journal, know the world you're in [i remember seeing this tower before, and the cave is somewhere north of it], and it just feels way more rewarding. Even though the gameplay is effectively the same, you can get lost, meet new friends, feel personally rewarded for finding secrets etc.
However, it's a very fine balance between that, and quests just being stupid to find out and not worth the effort, as it is later in the game as i'm informed. So what I would enjoy is an option or add-on to remove quest markers entirely, or in the new expansions have quests that are actually hard to complete. That kinda ties into

3) I miss level scaling. Even if it's just a little bit. I miss when the world felt dangerous, and you had to work to go where you wanted to go, and you had places to look forward to visiting. One Tamriel was the smartest move ESO made and it saved it for sure, and I love being able to go anywhere at any time and do anything. But I still do miss that old mmo feel, and I kinda wish there was an option or something. I tried doing self imposed rules like that [ie can't leave bleackrock until you finish all the quests, havet o be x level to keep going etc] but it just doesn't feel permanent enough because I have the option to go anywhere at any time. Again, I have mixed feelings on this, because I do love the current system, but I also miss having a challenge in the open world.

Jeremy

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

haha

I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.

Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.

becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.

oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)

current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut

That's exactly what I did?

Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?

I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.

pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.

as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.

The reply I quoted wasn't in response to anything. So I don't know what context you are claiming I supposedly missed. It was a stand alone post describing the orcs of WoW as superior to the ones of ESO by comparing a blizzard movie image to in-game footage of ESO. Which was a ridiculous comparison, because the actual orcs on WoW the game look nothing like their movie images. So you're actually the one missing the context here, and THAT is still on you.

Huyen

Skyrim ftw!

red_emu

I played WoW for a bit on a Paladin (?) Until about level 27 (and that took nearly a month). Eventually I gave up, bought a lvl 50 boost and as it turns out, the game wasn't much more fun. It's just constant mob grinding. I loved the fact that WoW had actual cut scenes in main quests (as opposed to ESOs "stuff is happening too far away anyway to see anything, so I'll go check my inventory"). One more thing that annoyed me was the designs. I've made a blood elf (?) And tried to make her look as natural as possible but when I got into the game, she had those huge, bouncy, flapping.... Ears. That was the end of WoW for me.

(On a positive note, WoW has one of the best soundtracks of any game)

MCBIZZLE300

FFXIV is pretty good, been playing it while ESO performance is so bad. No PVP tho really which sucks.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

haha

I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.

Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.

becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.

oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)

current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut

That's exactly what I did?

Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?

I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.

pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.

as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.

Unless a post has been deleted, no one has posted a picture of WoW's old orc model. Only the new ones.

I was one who did that, since earlier someone decided to compare WoW orcs with ESO ones in looks by using professional artwork for the former, while using a badly taken ingame screenshot for the latter.
So I switched it around to point out it was a ridiculous way to compare.

Elsonso

linlilia wrote: »

If you say so. I hear tons of complaints from people I know that play/played WoW and their complaints are on the same level as ours and the big difference I hear is that everything becomes outdated with each expansion, whereas here they TRY to keep old content playable.

This was a big problem with WoW. Deserted zones only used by the few people who were leveling. Expansion zones that became ghost zones as soon as a new expansion came out. It was pretty sad, really.

A_Silverius

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!

ESO Orcs!

WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

Such great comparsion. Let's switch that around shall we?

WoW orcs:


Elder Scrolls orcs:
[

/quote]

Both can be good:



Both can be bad:

DurzoBlint13

jainiadral wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

ESO models aren't perfect and could do with a couple more customisation options (horizontal width of mouth and nose tip angle, for example), but they are still considerably better than the "new" WoW ones.

I think that's mostly due to style. I get it if people aren't a fan of WoW's style; I used to be in love with a game called Kingdom of Amalur which had an extreeeemely wonky style that was super cartoonish, but I loved it anyway and replayed it on several characters.

Proportions-wise though... have you seen a male character in ESO? They have like no ass. Their legs just sprout from their spine. And their hips are tiny little boxes that are half the size of their shoulders... and no matter how far you set the leg sliders, they still remain tiny sticklegs that in no way shape or form could carry that torso. Most male characters are so top-heavy that they should just topple over when they try to walk

What ESO does well though is facial customization. It's great that we also have a lot of extra ways to personalize our characters like more tattoos than wow, and adornments and the like (obviously, since ZOS are selling customization options in the cash shop *cough cough*).

Have an awesome for the KoA mention I loved that game! I wish I could still get into it for a nostalgia spin.

KoA was awesome. I loved it too. Also, I wish they would bring Dragon's Dogma Online to the western hemisphere.

Linaleah

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

haha

I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.

Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.

becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.

oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)

current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut

That's exactly what I did?

Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?

I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.

pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.

as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.

Unless a post has been deleted, no one has posted a picture of WoW's old orc model. Only the new ones.

I was one who did that, since earlier someone decided to compare WoW orcs with ESO ones in looks by using professional artwork for the former, while using a badly taken ingame screenshot for the latter.
So I switched it around to point out it was a ridiculous way to compare.

could have sworn it was the other way around, and the post where wow orc which WAS an old low rez model btw came first, was being compared to artwork of ESO orc - was posted first.

i cannot find that post now, but it doesn't matter, new orc models have been posted several times already with fair comparison to in game ESO orcs, so they look just fine. different art style but definitely not green blobs or anything like that.

its literally a matter of preference. cartoonish=/=bad. its just style.

Wolfpaw

I had some great years playing WOW 2004 til WOTLK, nostalgic & all will be taking a pass. I'm glad others are enjoying it.

Hopefully the new LOTRO has some of that magic.

Chicharron

Iccotak wrote: »

There are pros and cons to both WoW and ESO but if I had to only pick one it would be Elder Scrolls Online

Pros of WoW...
I won't deny nostalgia I have for when I played it back in 2010 and despite the dated graphics WoW has great environments. The world feels large and they use color effectively that makes them pretty despite the dated graphics

That said 80% of WoW needs a visual update overhaul considering;
1. WoW is a top MMO in the market and makes Blizzard billions of dollars so they can clearly afford it
2. They have modeling technology as we have seen with the latest expansions
3. It has been over 8 years since Cataclysm updated the visuals

It's hard to appreciate the new models when old visuals of environments and armors cover it up

ESO beats WoW in quest design by a long shot.
Yes there is a lot of content but 80% of it is just outdated and poorly written.
I like reading quest text in games when it actually engages my mind and makes me think, but in Wow; The "get 5 rat tails" meme is no joke, there are lots and lots of stupid & unimaginative quests that will make your brain bleed even in recent content.

WoW has the some of the worst quests I have ever seen in AAA computer gaming. This is very important for a game that is supposed to be an MMO RPG. The Stories the player experiences along their journey is very important and if you can't regularly create a somewhat engaging story design then people are going to hate questing in your game.

Questing loses its novelty really fast in WoW, you're just clicking to get to the next one to level as quickly as possible.

I would equate Blizzard with a Bad Dungeon Master.
Their philosophy seems to be;
-have Great set pieces for the beginning so then players have good first impressions
-have Great set pieces for the end for a great & epic pay-off
BUT don't put any effort into the journey itself and fill it with meaningless tasks that are designed to extend played time instead of - consistently making engaging content and a fun experience.

It's no wonder Blizzard offers a level boost to new players because even they know that leveling is awful. Blizzard focuses on the end instead of the journey and it shows because, overall, questing feels like a chore instead of a fun experience. Leveling is a brain-dead ride while you have Netflix or a podcast on in the background and the fun doesn't start until endgame.

Maybe if the Developers focused on quality quest design instead of filler tasks they could actually have quests that are voice acted.

ESO, for the most part, has consistently engaging stories and side-quests. They made the right choice of making "Task" or "Chore" quest design relegated to daily activities, for the most part.
This four part video series explains in more detail what I am talking about and makes it easy to understand why WoW quest design is bad and what makes a quest "engaging".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtvrPTbQ_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5camMoNw-o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otAkP5VjIv8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur6GQp5mCYs

Just out of curiosity, did you post this on the WOW forum too?

Jeremy

Linaleah wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!



ESO Orcs!


WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

haha

I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.

Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.

becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.

oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)

current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut

That's exactly what I did?

Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?

I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.

pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.

as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.

Unless a post has been deleted, no one has posted a picture of WoW's old orc model. Only the new ones.

I was one who did that, since earlier someone decided to compare WoW orcs with ESO ones in looks by using professional artwork for the former, while using a badly taken ingame screenshot for the latter.
So I switched it around to point out it was a ridiculous way to compare.

could have sworn it was the other way around, and the post where wow orc which WAS an old low rez model btw came first, was being compared to artwork of ESO orc - was posted first.

i cannot find that post now, but it doesn't matter, new orc models have been posted several times already with fair comparison to in game ESO orcs, so they look just fine. different art style but definitely not green blobs or anything like that.

its literally a matter of preference. cartoonish=/=bad. its just style.

They look like green globs with teeth to me. The armor on that game is also incredibly dumb looking. But as you say - I suppose it's a matter of opinion. I liked the environmental graphics on WoW classic. But the character graphics were atrocious.

In any case: the post I responded to was not responding to any comparison that was previously made. Just go observe Vanos's post for yourself and you will see no quote in his post. He started this with his inaccurate comparison of movie graphic WoW Orcs compared to in-game ESO orcs and I was simply pointing out the obvious flaws in his comparison (as did several others before me by adopting his own tactics to show how flawed they were).

So first you accused me of making a post I never did. Then you accused me of not understanding the context of a discussion I actually understood just fine.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

A_Silverius wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Vanos444 wrote: »

WoW ORCS!

ESO Orcs!

WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.

Such great comparsion. Let's switch that around shall we?

WoW orcs:


Elder Scrolls orcs:
[

/quote]

Both can be good:

Both can be bad:

@A_Silverius
I'm aware.
But my post had nothing to do with which one is good and which one is bad. It was about pointing out in a exaggerated way the error in comparing the looks by using professional artwork for one side, then unflattering ingame screenshot for the other. Which Jeremy above me also comments. It was about the flaws in the comparison.
Although, I also prefer ESO's appearance.

bluebird

Iccotak wrote: »

Actually read what MLGProPlayer wrote.
It's not because the NPC is actually voiced (Which is nice and professional presentation)
But because the Quests structure and design is more varied that follow a story chain that is non-repetitive.
This is more prevalent in DLCs and Chapters - ESO really avoids repetitive quest chain story design in recent content unless it is for Dailies.

For WoW; I've actually pay attention to the story and in fact downloaded the "Storyline" add-on to better present the text for reading and immersing the player. Still run into the same issue of repetitive tasks design.
So the argument that we don't like questing in WoW because we don't read it is ridiculous.
Recently played WoW quests in 'Wrath of the Lich King' had me going back and forth to the same areas for "Do this X number of times" tasks for 3-4 trips of doing almost the exact same tasks.

WoW has great major story beats and set pieces but ESO better utilizes it's lore for overall consistent quality in overland questing. Not once in ESO am I going "Another One? Again?! I just did that!" when I pick up a quest - save for the psijiic skill quest.

I did actually read what he wrote, and responded to it. And maybe your memory of ESO is selective because its storylines aren't all that varied. You can easily see 'Oh another interact quest? I just did that'. ESO also has you kill the same number of mobs, it just doesn't give you a quest for them. So WoW might give you three quests like 1) Kill these enemies 2) Take three items 3) Slay a miniboss, ESO will just give you one quest where you need to 1) Slay a miniboss, but you need three items to open the door to him, and you need to kill a bunch of enemies to get there. So esentially the quest design is the same, the only difference is that ESO doesn't give you separate quests and xp for those objectives.

Here's a comparison of the Rift's main storyline and Nazmir's main storyline (just the start, or it would be too long):

1) Report to Vigrod Wraithbane in Shor's Stone. (Breadcrumb)
Talk to Ree-Zish. (Talk)
Destroy the imbued corpses. (Destroy)
Imbue the effigies at the mine entrance. (Interact)
Find Foreman Gandis. (Turnin)

2) Find the two relics. (Fetch)
Open the door to the tomb with the relics. (Interact)
Read Sinmur, Giant of Legend at the altar. (Interact)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane outside the mine (Turnin)

3) Rally the survivors. (Talk)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Talk)
Summon Sage Tirora at the westernmost brazier. (Interact)
Defeat Chieftain Frostfang inside the Fallowstone Undercroft. (Miniboss)
Speak to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Talk)
Examine the statue of Ysgramor. (Interact)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Turnin)

*****

1) Talk to Rokhan and scout ahead in Nazmir (Breadcrumb)
Talk to Princess Talanji (Talk)
2) Destroy blood trolls (Destroy)
3) Burn the dead around the swamp (Interact)
4) Kill Grand Ma'da Ateena (Miniboss)
5) Randezvous with Princess Talanji at the Overlook. (Talk)
Listen to Rokhan and Talanji discuss their plans (Turnin)

6) Investigate three Shrines (Interact)
7) Kill Blood Witch Najima (Miniboss)
8) Revitalize the guardian spirits of Zo'bal (Interact)
9) Complete Hanzabu's ritual (Interact)
Use your audience to talk to Bwonsamdi (Turnin)

10) Collect Bloodstones (Fetch)
11) Destroy the Vile Deserations at the temple (Destroy)
12) Kill the Warlord and the Hex Priestess (Miniboss)
13) Aid Bwonsamdi's Ritual (Interact)
Report your success to Hanzabu (Turnin)

So as you can see, you do just as many repetitive tasks in ESO as you do in WoW. That's why I keep saying that the quest design itself isn't more varied or more interesting. ESO simply dresses up the quests better with dialogue that includes several objectives in one quest. A lot of the times you also have to kill the same number of enemies (because they guard the items you need to take, or because you need to fight your way through a cave to get to your miniboss) but ESO doesn't acknowledge that objective at all. Instead, WoW gives you several quests for all those different objectives. Having to 'interact with three items while killing a bunch of enemies without reward' isn't a better quest design than having to 'interact with three items and kill a bunch of enemies for a reward', especially when they take the same time.

So the only impactful difference is the amount of dialogue and the quest choices, which WoW has a lot less of.

MartiniDaniels

bluebird wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Actually read what MLGProPlayer wrote.
It's not because the NPC is actually voiced (Which is nice and professional presentation)
But because the Quests structure and design is more varied that follow a story chain that is non-repetitive.
This is more prevalent in DLCs and Chapters - ESO really avoids repetitive quest chain story design in recent content unless it is for Dailies.

For WoW; I've actually pay attention to the story and in fact downloaded the "Storyline" add-on to better present the text for reading and immersing the player. Still run into the same issue of repetitive tasks design.
So the argument that we don't like questing in WoW because we don't read it is ridiculous.
Recently played WoW quests in 'Wrath of the Lich King' had me going back and forth to the same areas for "Do this X number of times" tasks for 3-4 trips of doing almost the exact same tasks.

WoW has great major story beats and set pieces but ESO better utilizes it's lore for overall consistent quality in overland questing. Not once in ESO am I going "Another One? Again?! I just did that!" when I pick up a quest - save for the psijiic skill quest.

I did actually read what he wrote, and responded to it. And maybe your memory of ESO is selective because its storylines aren't all that varied. You can easily see 'Oh another interact quest? I just did that'. ESO also has you kill the same number of mobs, it just doesn't give you a quest for them. So WoW might give you three quests like 1) Kill these enemies 2) Take three items 3) Slay a miniboss, ESO will just give you one quest where you need to 1) Slay a miniboss, but you need three items to open the door to him, and you need to kill a bunch of enemies to get there. So esentially the quest design is the same, the only difference is that ESO doesn't give you separate quests and xp for those objectives.

Here's a comparison of the Rift's main storyline and Nazmir's main storyline (just the start, or it would be too long):

1) Report to Vigrod Wraithbane in Shor's Stone. (Breadcrumb)
Talk to Ree-Zish. (Talk)
Destroy the imbued corpses. (Destroy)
Imbue the effigies at the mine entrance. (Interact)
Find Foreman Gandis. (Turnin)

2) Find the two relics. (Fetch)
Open the door to the tomb with the relics. (Interact)
Read Sinmur, Giant of Legend at the altar. (Interact)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane outside the mine (Turnin)

3) Rally the survivors. (Talk)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Talk)
Summon Sage Tirora at the westernmost brazier. (Interact)
Defeat Chieftain Frostfang inside the Fallowstone Undercroft. (Miniboss)
Speak to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Talk)
Examine the statue of Ysgramor. (Interact)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Turnin)

*****

1) Talk to Rokhan and scout ahead in Nazmir (Breadcrumb)
Talk to Princess Talanji (Talk)
2) Destroy blood trolls (Destroy)
3) Burn the dead around the swamp (Interact)
4) Kill Grand Ma'da Ateena (Miniboss)
5) Randezvous with Princess Talanji at the Overlook. (Talk)
Listen to Rokhan and Talanji discuss their plans (Turnin)

6) Investigate three Shrines (Interact)
7) Kill Blood Witch Najima (Miniboss)
8) Revitalize the guardian spirits of Zo'bal (Interact)
9) Complete Hanzabu's ritual (Interact)
Use your audience to talk to Bwonsamdi (Turnin)

10) Collect Bloodstones (Fetch)
11) Destroy the Vile Deserations at the temple (Destroy)
12) Kill the Warlord and the Hex Priestess (Miniboss)
13) Aid Bwonsamdi's Ritual (Interact)
Report your success to Hanzabu (Turnin)

So as you can see, you do just as many repetitive tasks in ESO as you do in WoW. That's why I keep saying that the quest design itself isn't more varied or more interesting. ESO simply dresses up the quests better with dialogue that includes several objectives in one quest. A lot of the times you also have to kill the same number of enemies (because they guard the items you need to take, or because you need to fight your way through a cave to get to your miniboss) but ESO doesn't acknowledge that objective at all. Instead, WoW gives you several quests for all those different objectives. Having to 'interact with three items while killing a bunch of enemies without reward' isn't a better quest design than having to 'interact with three items and kill a bunch of enemies for a reward', especially when they take the same time.

So the only impactful difference is the amount of dialogue and the quest choices, which WoW has a lot less of.

So far best quest in Rift is that festival where you need to perform different challenges like finding different items by clues and swimming around between check points and so on. Real fun. Too bad ESO rarely uses such variety and in majority of cases quest is just go kill 4 daedroth, pickup 3 crystals, kill 100k HP "boss". Even if writing and lore behind quest is good, but gameplay of quest itself, ugh, what a bore. Idk, why ESO devs decided to copy that repetitiveness from other MMORPGs.

bluebird

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Actually read what MLGProPlayer wrote.
It's not because the NPC is actually voiced (Which is nice and professional presentation)
But because the Quests structure and design is more varied that follow a story chain that is non-repetitive.
This is more prevalent in DLCs and Chapters - ESO really avoids repetitive quest chain story design in recent content unless it is for Dailies.

For WoW; I've actually pay attention to the story and in fact downloaded the "Storyline" add-on to better present the text for reading and immersing the player. Still run into the same issue of repetitive tasks design.
So the argument that we don't like questing in WoW because we don't read it is ridiculous.
Recently played WoW quests in 'Wrath of the Lich King' had me going back and forth to the same areas for "Do this X number of times" tasks for 3-4 trips of doing almost the exact same tasks.

WoW has great major story beats and set pieces but ESO better utilizes it's lore for overall consistent quality in overland questing. Not once in ESO am I going "Another One? Again?! I just did that!" when I pick up a quest - save for the psijiic skill quest.

I did actually read what he wrote, and responded to it. And maybe your memory of ESO is selective because its storylines aren't all that varied. You can easily see 'Oh another interact quest? I just did that'. ESO also has you kill the same number of mobs, it just doesn't give you a quest for them. So WoW might give you three quests like 1) Kill these enemies 2) Take three items 3) Slay a miniboss, ESO will just give you one quest where you need to 1) Slay a miniboss, but you need three items to open the door to him, and you need to kill a bunch of enemies to get there. So esentially the quest design is the same, the only difference is that ESO doesn't give you separate quests and xp for those objectives.

Here's a comparison of the Rift's main storyline and Nazmir's main storyline (just the start, or it would be too long):

1) Report to Vigrod Wraithbane in Shor's Stone. (Breadcrumb)
Talk to Ree-Zish. (Talk)
Destroy the imbued corpses. (Destroy)
Imbue the effigies at the mine entrance. (Interact)
Find Foreman Gandis. (Turnin)

2) Find the two relics. (Fetch)
Open the door to the tomb with the relics. (Interact)
Read Sinmur, Giant of Legend at the altar. (Interact)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane outside the mine (Turnin)

3) Rally the survivors. (Talk)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Talk)
Summon Sage Tirora at the westernmost brazier. (Interact)
Defeat Chieftain Frostfang inside the Fallowstone Undercroft. (Miniboss)
Speak to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Talk)
Examine the statue of Ysgramor. (Interact)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Turnin)

*****

1) Talk to Rokhan and scout ahead in Nazmir (Breadcrumb)
Talk to Princess Talanji (Talk)
2) Destroy blood trolls (Destroy)
3) Burn the dead around the swamp (Interact)
4) Kill Grand Ma'da Ateena (Miniboss)
5) Randezvous with Princess Talanji at the Overlook. (Talk)
Listen to Rokhan and Talanji discuss their plans (Turnin)

6) Investigate three Shrines (Interact)
7) Kill Blood Witch Najima (Miniboss)
8) Revitalize the guardian spirits of Zo'bal (Interact)
9) Complete Hanzabu's ritual (Interact)
Use your audience to talk to Bwonsamdi (Turnin)

10) Collect Bloodstones (Fetch)
11) Destroy the Vile Deserations at the temple (Destroy)
12) Kill the Warlord and the Hex Priestess (Miniboss)
13) Aid Bwonsamdi's Ritual (Interact)
Report your success to Hanzabu (Turnin)

So as you can see, you do just as many repetitive tasks in ESO as you do in WoW. That's why I keep saying that the quest design itself isn't more varied or more interesting. ESO simply dresses up the quests better with dialogue that includes several objectives in one quest. A lot of the times you also have to kill the same number of enemies (because they guard the items you need to take, or because you need to fight your way through a cave to get to your miniboss) but ESO doesn't acknowledge that objective at all. Instead, WoW gives you several quests for all those different objectives. Having to 'interact with three items while killing a bunch of enemies without reward' isn't a better quest design than having to 'interact with three items and kill a bunch of enemies for a reward', especially when they take the same time.

So the only impactful difference is the amount of dialogue and the quest choices, which WoW has a lot less of.

So far best quest in Rift is that festival where you need to perform different challenges like finding different items by clues and swimming around between check points and so on. Real fun. Too bad ESO rarely uses such variety and in majority of cases quest is just go kill 4 daedroth, pickup 3 crystals, kill 100k HP "boss". Even if writing and lore behind quest is good, but gameplay of quest itself, ugh, what a bore. Idk, why ESO devs decided to copy that repetitiveness from other MMORPGs.

Yeah, that's quite good! And there's also the Dwemer puzzle quests where you need to figure out the correct pattern!

Tandor

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I don't know how anyone can still play a game from 2004, especially one that hasn't aged well, at all.

Way to miss the whole point of Classic servers!

Yes the game hasn't aged well, it's become increasingly trivialised and as a result mind-numbingly boring - and here's we're on topic for an ESO forum because of the lesson that ZOS can learn from that in respect of removing gameplay and dumping it in the Crown Store - which is the very reason so many ex-players are keen to play the Classic servers as they return the game to a previous time when it was actually fun to play because, for example, the classes hadn't become trivialised, fast travel was very limited so the world felt both large and realistically immersive, etc. Nowadays everything is handed to you on a plate, even if you have to pay extra for it, and as a result you don't get anything like the same sense of reward or satisfaction as when you actually achieved something you'd worked for or put in time on.

maxjapank

Tandor wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I don't know how anyone can still play a game from 2004, especially one that hasn't aged well, at all.

Way to miss the whole point of Classic servers!

Yes the game hasn't aged well, it's become increasingly trivialised and as a result mind-numbingly boring - and here's we're on topic for an ESO forum because of the lesson that ZOS can learn from that in respect of removing gameplay and dumping it in the Crown Store - which is the very reason so many ex-players are keen to play the Classic servers as they return the game to a previous time when it was actually fun to play because, for example, the classes hadn't become trivialised, fast travel was very limited so the world felt both large and realistically immersive, etc. Nowadays everything is handed to you on a plate, even if you have to pay extra for it, and as a result you don't get anything like the same sense of reward or satisfaction as when you actually achieved something you'd worked for or put in time on.

Are you talking about paying for skillines that players have to “work for and put the time in” first? First unlock them with one toon before you can purchase them? Sorry, but after you’ve unlocked Undaunted on your 3rd toon, it’s pretty nice that I can buy it.

Nemesis7884

dayum im so itchy to try wow again after never really having played it

Ydrisselle

Linaleah wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I strongly disagree about "engaging" part. There are amazing engaging quests in WoW. Just give me an example from ESO quest line which beats BRAVO company quest line in WoW.

I've played WoW for years, have and played the latest expansion and I literally have no idea which quest like you are talking about. O_O

there WERE some pretty cool quest chains in wow, no doubt about that, I still remember Linken quests for example with equal frustration and fondness, Pamela's doll was heartbreaking and quest chains in wrath of the lichking that tied into Warcraft 3 were fantastic if you were a fan of the universe prior to WoW.

but at the same time, there are so many more quest chains in ESO that were just if not more memorable for me. so i don't know.... to each their own?

Bravo company is vanilla quest line for alliance, where you need to consequently save 5 prisoners who are sort of marines/rock-n-roll racing guys and then kick some orc's a**es together. Quest design is beyond beautiful, you actually need to think and use some tactics to have any chance to complete it and there is great writing and serious dramatic end.

"To each their own" - exactly. I simply can't comprehend how somebody can place ESO's quests above Skyrim's quests for example, but I met ton of people who actually can't stand TES single player but absolutely in love with ESO, so I guess this is matter of personal preferences. There are different genres of literature, movies, different kind of sports. ESO is some different kind of MMO and different kind of RPG in comparison to other mass-market games..

But what's most funny, we can see that many people dislike ESO combat system but love overland/questing, while many have exactly opposite opinion that combat is fun, but overland boring... maybe ESO problem is that they took so many different features and landed in out-of-genre territory and so game causes very mixed opinions. I think that aside from performance issues where all the negative is completely justified, in other things ESO is treated too harsh by players.

I see that people post how they can't enter WoW classic due to huge queues and they post this light-heartedly as some fun fact without negative, and if we remember what happened when ESO introduced login queues and amount of hate that followed..

yeah, that's probably why i don't remember it. even though i have alliance characters, quests that are memorable to me, have some sort of interesting story to them rather then mechanics. edited oh.. its the redone original zones. even though they tried to make overall zone stories more coherent vs original vanila zones, something was just.. lost in translation. I never actualy played through westfall post Cataclysm. well.. I started to and it annoyed me so I moved on to other zones/running dungeons to get through the 1-60 experience on proceed to Outland (burning crusade version of it) which I actualy contrary to many people opinions - really really like (especially Nagrand stories, both alliance and hordeside)
I'm also one of those people who dislikes ESO combat, but loves the world and quests so much that it kinda balances out my dislike for combat. (it was pretty much the same experience for me when playing KOTOR games - the single player ones. hated the combat, but played anyways becasue story and characters sucked me in, hilariously though with something like Borderlands or Destiny, it was the combat that got me to keep playing and then I got sucked into the story as well - funny, cause normally I'm not the biggest fan of first person shooters, first person view just feels uncomfortable for me. but I digress)

I do agree that people are pretty hypocritical when it comes to problems in ESO, vs the same exact problems in other games. but that's just... people

There are definitely interesting quest chains both in vanilla WoW and the after-Cataclysm world, if we are talking about the lvl1-60 experience. I played mainly Alliance, so I have more memories about those: waking Stitches in Duskwood, The Legend of Stalvan also in Duskwood, helping escape Marshall Windsor from Blackrock Depths and seeing Lady Prestor to turn into Onyxia in the throne room... Untangling little Pamela Redpath's past in EPL or finishing The Missing Diplomat. After Cataclysm - I found the CSI: Westfall hilarious, I enjoyed the Bravo Company in Redridge Mountains, and I almost cried thanks to Rhea in Badlands. There is also in Badlands the most hilarious quest in every MMO called The Day Deathwing Came

Both ESO and WoW uses the "one story per one zone, and an overarching bigger story" method, so I think the two games are not that different regarding that (at least now). I also enjoy the cinematics at the end of the WoW zones made with the in-game engine, which are featuring our characters too. I think the first one was the Wrathgate - and that was beyond epic. That's something which is simply not present in ESO, and I miss that dearly.