But WoW Devs are actually listening to the players and uhh their game works
MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I strongly disagree about "engaging" part. There are amazing engaging quests in WoW. Just give me an example from ESO quest line which beats BRAVO company quest line in WoW.
I've played WoW for years, have and played the latest expansion and I literally have no idea which quest like you are talking about. O_O
there WERE some pretty cool quest chains in wow, no doubt about that, I still remember Linken quests for example with equal frustration and fondness, Pamela's doll was heartbreaking and quest chains in wrath of the lichking that tied into Warcraft 3 were fantastic if you were a fan of the universe prior to WoW.
but at the same time, there are so many more quest chains in ESO that were just if not more memorable for me. so i don't know.... to each their own?
Bravo company is vanilla quest line for alliance, where you need to consequently save 5 prisoners who are sort of marines/rock-n-roll racing guys and then kick some orc's a**es together. Quest design is beyond beautiful, you actually need to think and use some tactics to have any chance to complete it and there is great writing and serious dramatic end.
"To each their own" - exactly. I simply can't comprehend how somebody can place ESO's quests above Skyrim's quests for example, but I met ton of people who actually can't stand TES single player but absolutely in love with ESO, so I guess this is matter of personal preferences. There are different genres of literature, movies, different kind of sports. ESO is some different kind of MMO and different kind of RPG in comparison to other mass-market games..
But what's most funny, we can see that many people dislike ESO combat system but love overland/questing, while many have exactly opposite opinion that combat is fun, but overland boring... maybe ESO problem is that they took so many different features and landed in out-of-genre territory and so game causes very mixed opinions. I think that aside from performance issues where all the negative is completely justified, in other things ESO is treated too harsh by players.
I see that people post how they can't enter WoW classic due to huge queues and they post this light-heartedly as some fun fact without negative, and if we remember what happened when ESO introduced login queues and amount of hate that followed..
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
WoW ORCS!
ESO Orcs!
WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.
WoW ORCS!
ESO Orcs!
WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.
haha
I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.
Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
WoW ORCS!
ESO Orcs!
WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.
haha
I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.
Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.
becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.
oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)
current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut
WoW ORCS!
ESO Orcs!
WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.
haha
I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.
Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.
becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.
oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)
current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut
That's exactly what I did?
Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?
I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
WoW ORCS!
ESO Orcs!
WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.
haha
I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.
Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.
becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.
oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)
current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut
That's exactly what I did?
Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?
I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.
pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.
as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.
WoW ORCS!
ESO Orcs!
WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.
haha
I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.
Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.
becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.
oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)
current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut
That's exactly what I did?
Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?
I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.
pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.
as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.
If you say so. I hear tons of complaints from people I know that play/played WoW and their complaints are on the same level as ours and the big difference I hear is that everything becomes outdated with each expansion, whereas here they TRY to keep old content playable.
jainiadral wrote: »I think that's mostly due to style. I get it if people aren't a fan of WoW's style; I used to be in love with a game called Kingdom of Amalur which had an extreeeemely wonky style that was super cartoonish, but I loved it anyway and replayed it on several characters.ESO models aren't perfect and could do with a couple more customisation options (horizontal width of mouth and nose tip angle, for example), but they are still considerably better than the "new" WoW ones.
Proportions-wise though... have you seen a male character in ESO? They have like no ass.Their legs just sprout from their spine. And their hips are tiny little boxes that are half the size of their shoulders... and no matter how far you set the leg sliders, they still remain tiny sticklegs that in no way shape or form could carry that torso. Most male characters are so top-heavy that they should just topple over when they try to walk
What ESO does well though is facial customization. It's great that we also have a lot of extra ways to personalize our characters like more tattoos than wow, and adornments and the like (obviously, since ZOS are selling customization options in the cash shop *cough cough*).
Have an awesome for the KoA mentionI loved that game! I wish I could still get into it for a nostalgia spin.
NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »WoW ORCS!
ESO Orcs!
WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.
haha
I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.
Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.
becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.
oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)
current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut
That's exactly what I did?
Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?
I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.
pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.
as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.
Unless a post has been deleted, no one has posted a picture of WoW's old orc model. Only the new ones.
I was one who did that, since earlier someone decided to compare WoW orcs with ESO ones in looks by using professional artwork for the former, while using a badly taken ingame screenshot for the latter.
So I switched it around to point out it was a ridiculous way to compare.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
There are pros and cons to both WoW and ESO but if I had to only pick one it would be Elder Scrolls Online
Pros of WoW...
I won't deny nostalgia I have for when I played it back in 2010 and despite the dated graphics WoW has great environments. The world feels large and they use color effectively that makes them pretty despite the dated graphics
That said 80% of WoW needs a visual update overhaul considering;
1. WoW is a top MMO in the market and makes Blizzard billions of dollars so they can clearly afford it
2. They have modeling technology as we have seen with the latest expansions
3. It has been over 8 years since Cataclysm updated the visuals
It's hard to appreciate the new models when old visuals of environments and armors cover it up
ESO beats WoW in quest design by a long shot.
Yes there is a lot of content but 80% of it is just outdated and poorly written.
I like reading quest text in games when it actually engages my mind and makes me think, but in Wow; The "get 5 rat tails" meme is no joke, there are lots and lots of stupid & unimaginative quests that will make your brain bleed even in recent content.
WoW has the some of the worst quests I have ever seen in AAA computer gaming. This is very important for a game that is supposed to be an MMO RPG. The Stories the player experiences along their journey is very important and if you can't regularly create a somewhat engaging story design then people are going to hate questing in your game.
Questing loses its novelty really fast in WoW, you're just clicking to get to the next one to level as quickly as possible.
I would equate Blizzard with a Bad Dungeon Master.
Their philosophy seems to be;
-have Great set pieces for the beginning so then players have good first impressions
-have Great set pieces for the end for a great & epic pay-off
BUT don't put any effort into the journey itself and fill it with meaningless tasks that are designed to extend played time instead of - consistently making engaging content and a fun experience.
It's no wonder Blizzard offers a level boost to new players because even they know that leveling is awful. Blizzard focuses on the end instead of the journey and it shows because, overall, questing feels like a chore instead of a fun experience. Leveling is a brain-dead ride while you have Netflix or a podcast on in the background and the fun doesn't start until endgame.
Maybe if the Developers focused on quality quest design instead of filler tasks they could actually have quests that are voice acted.
ESO, for the most part, has consistently engaging stories and side-quests. They made the right choice of making "Task" or "Chore" quest design relegated to daily activities, for the most part.
This four part video series explains in more detail what I am talking about and makes it easy to understand why WoW quest design is bad and what makes a quest "engaging".
NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »WoW ORCS!
ESO Orcs!
WoW ORC > ESO ORC, in terms of lore, culture and personality.
haha
I like how you show a movie image to illustrate orcs on WoW where as on ESO you show an actual in-game orc.
Why don't you show an actual in-game picture of the orcs and compare that to the ones on ESO? Because Orcs on WoW look like green globs with teeth. WoW has some of the dumbest looking character models ever put to a game.
becasue that is exactly what YOU did. you showed old orc in game model and compared it to the art work of ES orcs instead of actual in game models.
oh and WoW orcs are basically ripoffs of warhammer orcs anyways, that got different background developed for them through the years, but originally? wow orcs = warhammer orks. (original warcraft was supposed to be warhammer rts, but blizzard lost license very late into game development and had to scramble to preserve a ton of work they already did, so they slapped a few changes here and there, changed some names around, squished in a different story and called it original IP)
current in game orc model, one of the options, under the cut
That's exactly what I did?
Do you mind showing me where I supposedly did this?
I'll wait. Because I think you must have me confused with someone else.
pardon me, i didn't check who was original person that posted first comparison. if it weren't you, i apologize. but the reply you quoted was in response to comparing an art work to a VERY old in game model, which is an unfair comparison, so the replier turned around and did the same thing as original poster.
as in.. if you weren't original poster - you were missing context. you were calling out replier while missing context of their reply and THAT is still on you.
Unless a post has been deleted, no one has posted a picture of WoW's old orc model. Only the new ones.
I was one who did that, since earlier someone decided to compare WoW orcs with ESO ones in looks by using professional artwork for the former, while using a badly taken ingame screenshot for the latter.
So I switched it around to point out it was a ridiculous way to compare.
could have sworn it was the other way around, and the post where wow orc which WAS an old low rez model btw came first, was being compared to artwork of ESO orc - was posted first.
i cannot find that post now, but it doesn't matter, new orc models have been posted several times already with fair comparison to in game ESO orcs, so they look just fine. different art style but definitely not green blobs or anything like that.
its literally a matter of preference. cartoonish=/=bad. its just style.
A_Silverius wrote: »
I did actually read what he wrote, and responded to it. And maybe your memory of ESO is selective because its storylines aren't all that varied. You can easily see 'Oh another interact quest? I just did that'. ESO also has you kill the same number of mobs, it just doesn't give you a quest for them. So WoW might give you three quests like 1) Kill these enemies 2) Take three items 3) Slay a miniboss, ESO will just give you one quest where you need to 1) Slay a miniboss, but you need three items to open the door to him, and you need to kill a bunch of enemies to get there. So esentially the quest design is the same, the only difference is that ESO doesn't give you separate quests and xp for those objectives.Actually read what MLGProPlayer wrote.
It's not because the NPC is actually voiced (Which is nice and professional presentation)
But because the Quests structure and design is more varied that follow a story chain that is non-repetitive.
This is more prevalent in DLCs and Chapters - ESO really avoids repetitive quest chain story design in recent content unless it is for Dailies.
For WoW; I've actually pay attention to the story and in fact downloaded the "Storyline" add-on to better present the text for reading and immersing the player. Still run into the same issue of repetitive tasks design.
So the argument that we don't like questing in WoW because we don't read it is ridiculous.
Recently played WoW quests in 'Wrath of the Lich King' had me going back and forth to the same areas for "Do this X number of times" tasks for 3-4 trips of doing almost the exact same tasks.
WoW has great major story beats and set pieces but ESO better utilizes it's lore for overall consistent quality in overland questing. Not once in ESO am I going "Another One? Again?! I just did that!" when I pick up a quest - save for the psijiic skill quest.
I did actually read what he wrote, and responded to it. And maybe your memory of ESO is selective because its storylines aren't all that varied. You can easily see 'Oh another interact quest? I just did that'. ESO also has you kill the same number of mobs, it just doesn't give you a quest for them. So WoW might give you three quests like 1) Kill these enemies 2) Take three items 3) Slay a miniboss, ESO will just give you one quest where you need to 1) Slay a miniboss, but you need three items to open the door to him, and you need to kill a bunch of enemies to get there. So esentially the quest design is the same, the only difference is that ESO doesn't give you separate quests and xp for those objectives.Actually read what MLGProPlayer wrote.
It's not because the NPC is actually voiced (Which is nice and professional presentation)
But because the Quests structure and design is more varied that follow a story chain that is non-repetitive.
This is more prevalent in DLCs and Chapters - ESO really avoids repetitive quest chain story design in recent content unless it is for Dailies.
For WoW; I've actually pay attention to the story and in fact downloaded the "Storyline" add-on to better present the text for reading and immersing the player. Still run into the same issue of repetitive tasks design.
So the argument that we don't like questing in WoW because we don't read it is ridiculous.
Recently played WoW quests in 'Wrath of the Lich King' had me going back and forth to the same areas for "Do this X number of times" tasks for 3-4 trips of doing almost the exact same tasks.
WoW has great major story beats and set pieces but ESO better utilizes it's lore for overall consistent quality in overland questing. Not once in ESO am I going "Another One? Again?! I just did that!" when I pick up a quest - save for the psijiic skill quest.
Here's a comparison of the Rift's main storyline and Nazmir's main storyline (just the start, or it would be too long):1) Report to Vigrod Wraithbane in Shor's Stone. (Breadcrumb)
Talk to Ree-Zish. (Talk)
Destroy the imbued corpses. (Destroy)
Imbue the effigies at the mine entrance. (Interact)
Find Foreman Gandis. (Turnin)
2) Find the two relics. (Fetch)
Open the door to the tomb with the relics. (Interact)
Read Sinmur, Giant of Legend at the altar. (Interact)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane outside the mine (Turnin)
3) Rally the survivors. (Talk)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Talk)
Summon Sage Tirora at the westernmost brazier. (Interact)
Defeat Chieftain Frostfang inside the Fallowstone Undercroft. (Miniboss)
Speak to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Talk)
Examine the statue of Ysgramor. (Interact)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Turnin)
*****
1) Talk to Rokhan and scout ahead in Nazmir (Breadcrumb)
Talk to Princess Talanji (Talk)
2) Destroy blood trolls (Destroy)
3) Burn the dead around the swamp (Interact)
4) Kill Grand Ma'da Ateena (Miniboss)
5) Randezvous with Princess Talanji at the Overlook. (Talk)
Listen to Rokhan and Talanji discuss their plans (Turnin)
6) Investigate three Shrines (Interact)
7) Kill Blood Witch Najima (Miniboss)
8) Revitalize the guardian spirits of Zo'bal (Interact)
9) Complete Hanzabu's ritual (Interact)
Use your audience to talk to Bwonsamdi (Turnin)
10) Collect Bloodstones (Fetch)
11) Destroy the Vile Deserations at the temple (Destroy)
12) Kill the Warlord and the Hex Priestess (Miniboss)
13) Aid Bwonsamdi's Ritual (Interact)
Report your success to Hanzabu (Turnin)
So as you can see, you do just as many repetitive tasks in ESO as you do in WoW. That's why I keep saying that the quest design itself isn't more varied or more interesting. ESO simply dresses up the quests better with dialogue that includes several objectives in one quest. A lot of the times you also have to kill the same number of enemies (because they guard the items you need to take, or because you need to fight your way through a cave to get to your miniboss) but ESO doesn't acknowledge that objective at all. Instead, WoW gives you several quests for all those different objectives. Having to 'interact with three items while killing a bunch of enemies without reward' isn't a better quest design than having to 'interact with three items and kill a bunch of enemies for a reward', especially when they take the same time.
So the only impactful difference is the amount of dialogue and the quest choices, which WoW has a lot less of.
Yeah, that's quite good! And there's also the Dwemer puzzle quests where you need to figure out the correct pattern!MartiniDaniels wrote: »So far best quest in Rift is that festival where you need to perform different challenges like finding different items by clues and swimming around between check points and so on. Real fun. Too bad ESO rarely uses such variety and in majority of cases quest is just go kill 4 daedroth, pickup 3 crystals, kill 100k HP "boss". Even if writing and lore behind quest is good, but gameplay of quest itself, ugh, what a bore. Idk, why ESO devs decided to copy that repetitiveness from other MMORPGs.I did actually read what he wrote, and responded to it. And maybe your memory of ESO is selective because its storylines aren't all that varied. You can easily see 'Oh another interact quest? I just did that'. ESO also has you kill the same number of mobs, it just doesn't give you a quest for them. So WoW might give you three quests like 1) Kill these enemies 2) Take three items 3) Slay a miniboss, ESO will just give you one quest where you need to 1) Slay a miniboss, but you need three items to open the door to him, and you need to kill a bunch of enemies to get there. So esentially the quest design is the same, the only difference is that ESO doesn't give you separate quests and xp for those objectives.Actually read what MLGProPlayer wrote.
It's not because the NPC is actually voiced (Which is nice and professional presentation)
But because the Quests structure and design is more varied that follow a story chain that is non-repetitive.
This is more prevalent in DLCs and Chapters - ESO really avoids repetitive quest chain story design in recent content unless it is for Dailies.
For WoW; I've actually pay attention to the story and in fact downloaded the "Storyline" add-on to better present the text for reading and immersing the player. Still run into the same issue of repetitive tasks design.
So the argument that we don't like questing in WoW because we don't read it is ridiculous.
Recently played WoW quests in 'Wrath of the Lich King' had me going back and forth to the same areas for "Do this X number of times" tasks for 3-4 trips of doing almost the exact same tasks.
WoW has great major story beats and set pieces but ESO better utilizes it's lore for overall consistent quality in overland questing. Not once in ESO am I going "Another One? Again?! I just did that!" when I pick up a quest - save for the psijiic skill quest.
Here's a comparison of the Rift's main storyline and Nazmir's main storyline (just the start, or it would be too long):1) Report to Vigrod Wraithbane in Shor's Stone. (Breadcrumb)
Talk to Ree-Zish. (Talk)
Destroy the imbued corpses. (Destroy)
Imbue the effigies at the mine entrance. (Interact)
Find Foreman Gandis. (Turnin)
2) Find the two relics. (Fetch)
Open the door to the tomb with the relics. (Interact)
Read Sinmur, Giant of Legend at the altar. (Interact)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane outside the mine (Turnin)
3) Rally the survivors. (Talk)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Talk)
Summon Sage Tirora at the westernmost brazier. (Interact)
Defeat Chieftain Frostfang inside the Fallowstone Undercroft. (Miniboss)
Speak to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Talk)
Examine the statue of Ysgramor. (Interact)
Talk to Vigrod Wraithbane. (Turnin)
*****
1) Talk to Rokhan and scout ahead in Nazmir (Breadcrumb)
Talk to Princess Talanji (Talk)
2) Destroy blood trolls (Destroy)
3) Burn the dead around the swamp (Interact)
4) Kill Grand Ma'da Ateena (Miniboss)
5) Randezvous with Princess Talanji at the Overlook. (Talk)
Listen to Rokhan and Talanji discuss their plans (Turnin)
6) Investigate three Shrines (Interact)
7) Kill Blood Witch Najima (Miniboss)
8) Revitalize the guardian spirits of Zo'bal (Interact)
9) Complete Hanzabu's ritual (Interact)
Use your audience to talk to Bwonsamdi (Turnin)
10) Collect Bloodstones (Fetch)
11) Destroy the Vile Deserations at the temple (Destroy)
12) Kill the Warlord and the Hex Priestess (Miniboss)
13) Aid Bwonsamdi's Ritual (Interact)
Report your success to Hanzabu (Turnin)
So as you can see, you do just as many repetitive tasks in ESO as you do in WoW. That's why I keep saying that the quest design itself isn't more varied or more interesting. ESO simply dresses up the quests better with dialogue that includes several objectives in one quest. A lot of the times you also have to kill the same number of enemies (because they guard the items you need to take, or because you need to fight your way through a cave to get to your miniboss) but ESO doesn't acknowledge that objective at all. Instead, WoW gives you several quests for all those different objectives. Having to 'interact with three items while killing a bunch of enemies without reward' isn't a better quest design than having to 'interact with three items and kill a bunch of enemies for a reward', especially when they take the same time.
So the only impactful difference is the amount of dialogue and the quest choices, which WoW has a lot less of.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »I don't know how anyone can still play a game from 2004, especially one that hasn't aged well, at all.
MLGProPlayer wrote: »I don't know how anyone can still play a game from 2004, especially one that hasn't aged well, at all.
Way to miss the whole point of Classic servers!
Yes the game hasn't aged well, it's become increasingly trivialised and as a result mind-numbingly boring - and here's we're on topic for an ESO forum because of the lesson that ZOS can learn from that in respect of removing gameplay and dumping it in the Crown Store - which is the very reason so many ex-players are keen to play the Classic servers as they return the game to a previous time when it was actually fun to play because, for example, the classes hadn't become trivialised, fast travel was very limited so the world felt both large and realistically immersive, etc. Nowadays everything is handed to you on a plate, even if you have to pay extra for it, and as a result you don't get anything like the same sense of reward or satisfaction as when you actually achieved something you'd worked for or put in time on.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I strongly disagree about "engaging" part. There are amazing engaging quests in WoW. Just give me an example from ESO quest line which beats BRAVO company quest line in WoW.
I've played WoW for years, have and played the latest expansion and I literally have no idea which quest like you are talking about. O_O
there WERE some pretty cool quest chains in wow, no doubt about that, I still remember Linken quests for example with equal frustration and fondness, Pamela's doll was heartbreaking and quest chains in wrath of the lichking that tied into Warcraft 3 were fantastic if you were a fan of the universe prior to WoW.
but at the same time, there are so many more quest chains in ESO that were just if not more memorable for me. so i don't know.... to each their own?
Bravo company is vanilla quest line for alliance, where you need to consequently save 5 prisoners who are sort of marines/rock-n-roll racing guys and then kick some orc's a**es together. Quest design is beyond beautiful, you actually need to think and use some tactics to have any chance to complete it and there is great writing and serious dramatic end.
"To each their own" - exactly. I simply can't comprehend how somebody can place ESO's quests above Skyrim's quests for example, but I met ton of people who actually can't stand TES single player but absolutely in love with ESO, so I guess this is matter of personal preferences. There are different genres of literature, movies, different kind of sports. ESO is some different kind of MMO and different kind of RPG in comparison to other mass-market games..
But what's most funny, we can see that many people dislike ESO combat system but love overland/questing, while many have exactly opposite opinion that combat is fun, but overland boring... maybe ESO problem is that they took so many different features and landed in out-of-genre territory and so game causes very mixed opinions. I think that aside from performance issues where all the negative is completely justified, in other things ESO is treated too harsh by players.
I see that people post how they can't enter WoW classic due to huge queues and they post this light-heartedly as some fun fact without negative, and if we remember what happened when ESO introduced login queues and amount of hate that followed..
yeah, that's probably why i don't remember it. even though i have alliance characters, quests that are memorable to me, have some sort of interesting story to them rather then mechanics. edited oh.. its the redone original zones. even though they tried to make overall zone stories more coherent vs original vanila zones, something was just.. lost in translation. I never actualy played through westfall post Cataclysm. well.. I started to and it annoyed me so I moved on to other zones/running dungeons to get through the 1-60 experience on proceed to Outland (burning crusade version of it) which I actualy contrary to many people opinions - really really like (especially Nagrand stories, both alliance and hordeside)
I'm also one of those people who dislikes ESO combat, but loves the world and quests so much that it kinda balances out my dislike for combat. (it was pretty much the same experience for me when playing KOTOR games - the single player ones. hated the combat, but played anyways becasue story and characters sucked me in, hilariously though with something like Borderlands or Destiny, it was the combat that got me to keep playing and then I got sucked into the story as well - funny, cause normally I'm not the biggest fan of first person shooters, first person view just feels uncomfortable for me. but I digress)
I do agree that people are pretty hypocritical when it comes to problems in ESO, vs the same exact problems in other games. but that's just... people