Combat is the weakest link for me.

rager82b14_ESO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbvwpXlTvAA



So I see I'm not alone in thinking this. I just don't like how the skills work in this game. Switching weapons, short buffs, and just a endless rotation.



So my question is this, Can a Weapon Damage build work well in this game? One where you don't need to use many skills. I've never tried it, but it sounds more fun and when I play an elder scrolls game. I focus heavily on weapon damage not skills.

MartiniDaniels

That video is complete BS from first 10 seconds, i stopped looking after that.

Nyladreas

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

That video is complete BS from first 10 seconds, i stopped looking after that.

So you literally got nothing out of the video and decided to discard and disregard it anyway. I get it, you're one of those people.

As for the OP I kind of agree. I wish we just had less twitchy combat, less canceling, more smooth combos, more skills to fit on a bar, longer buffs and weapon switching was automated or made in a way that feels better than the current system.

I have no problems playing what we got, I've done all endgame content + high ranked PvP, but honestly it's never been fun for me once.

The only reason I haven't given it up yet is the quest and exploration content, RP, amazing community, endless possibilities and custom build access etc.

I wish the combat was more fluid, more satisfying with actual skill synergies and required smart timing and placement, instead of brain dead muscle memory combos, multitude of stupid debuffs and canceling that completely destroys all the fun and amazing visuals that not only are but could have been.

OwnerOfSuccuby

I use build before that was focused on heavy attacks - 47.5 k dps very easy rotation - now buged and do not work.

It is easy to make rotations like this.

Some kind of 1234, swap 1234 swap with out light attacks or just 3 skills and all other is light attacks.

It is not hard to make builds like that.

But gear is hard to combine - it needs special traits. And when you do it - 4-5 month play and stupid ZOS bug or change something.

It is not hard to make builds like this with 40+ k dps. And even more. The problem is: you have not got unlimited transmutation and time.

I changed my gear more than 10 times already - plague docror, warrior poet, ebon = trash now -> perfect youlnokrean.

Maelstrom bow->oblivion sets->eternal yokeda - mailstrom lightning stuff = buged or do not work with some skills = to trash in some builds.

And each time the same.

I already hate zos - i have not got time farm so much transmutations for all this garbage and make it gold.

Stop change the game or give me my transmutation and money back each time you change something !!!

I have not got unlimited time and all races of each class pn account !!!

BlackMadara

Pve is very rotation based, just like it is in any mmorpg. The only differences between ESO and other games are that there are no CDs on skills and the animations are less flashy.

I get the feeling that people criticize the combat in ESO because the animations aren't extremely flashy. The combat in the game is the best that I've played, other than BDO. WoW, GW2, and Neverwinter are fine, but too clunky and slow imo. ESO gives a better feel for real combat. ESO could do better with more synergistic combos, I agree. Something like the DK flame lash power lash combo when setting up a root or stun.

Pvp combat is where ESO really shines. You have combos, like any real combat system. Similar to a jab-jab-cross or head tie-elbow pass-single leg shot. Any combat system, real life or game, is going to have dedicated combos that yield better results than just using the equivalent of light attacking.

If you play this game expecting it to be like skyrim combat or like other mmos, you will probably have a bad time. Put some time and effort into understanding the depth of combat in this game, and you will most likely enjoy it more.

Sanctum74

Imo swapping bars, managing buffs/debuffs, and learning proper offensive/defensive rotations is what makes this game so much fun and more skillful.

As far as the video goes it's hard to take it serious when they are using a no damage hybrid build and just stand still. I would be bored too if I played like that.

buttaface

Great video, thanks for linking it. As an MMO player for decades now, agree with the good and bad in the video. Calling a broken, WAY TOO CLICKY combat system "high skill ceiling" or "fluid" is like calling a piano or typewriter that one has to press each key three times "high skill ceiling." Absurd on its face.

There are many things I like about this game, that it does well, but the combat clickiness makes me not want to bother with progression into the higher level "console/arcade" content.

Am coming to the conclusion that any PC game that is also console will eventually disappoint players such as myself in this way. When I watch kids playing console games with the immense clickiness, I wonder how they find that fun and immersive, but different strokes. THREE strokes (or hell many more) where one should suffice is not to my liking.

I think the video reviewer hit it dead on with his analysis of ESO combat.

Donny_Vito

Yeah, combat in this game is clunky but if start trying to challenge the idea that combat is not amazing you'll get lots of negative feedback from the community. Most of us enjoy the game regardless, but still it's pretty obvious to admit this combat system has a lot of flaws.

canceling that completely destroys all the fun and amazing visuals that not only are but could have been.

So true. We've been trained to animation cancel everything and ZoS has reluctantly claimed this to be a feature when it just negates all the hard work that went into the art and animation of combat. The only problem is that we're pot-committed, as a gambling reference. We've already invested so much time and effort into this game that overhauling combat and animations is not an option. We're stuck with it, so we just have to pucker up and make the best out of it.

Mashille

The Combat System (For PvP) might be literally the only thing that keeps me playing the game

MartiniDaniels

Nyladreas wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

That video is complete BS from first 10 seconds, i stopped looking after that.

So you literally got nothing out of the video and decided to discard and disregard it anyway. I get it, you're one of those people.

As for the OP I kind of agree. I wish we just had less twitchy combat, less canceling, more smooth combos, more skills to fit on a bar, longer buffs and weapon switching was automated or made in a way that feels better than the current system.

I have no problems playing what we got, I've done all endgame content + high ranked PvP, but honestly it's never been fun for me once.

The only reason I haven't given it up yet is the quest and exploration content, RP, amazing community, endless possibilities and custom build access etc.

I wish the combat was more fluid, more satisfying with actual skill synergies and required smart timing and placement, instead of brain dead muscle memory combos, multitude of stupid debuffs and canceling that completely destroys all the fun and amazing visuals that not only are but could have been.

First phrase from video is utter nonsense about ESO has "much better" world design and writing/quests then single player TES games. This is just hilarious. We may say that best hand picked parts of ESO are comparable to single player TES, true, but nowhere near "much better".

About combat I'll prefer typical Action-RPG combat and in that terms ESO is not ideal, but certainly better then re-newing 20 buffs once in hour and cooldown-based abilities.. such type of combat is good when you control several characters, but to do that just for one character.... this is simply too tedious and boring for me.
I like ESO animation cancelling, blocking, roll-dodge, dynamic speed acceleration, relatively working LOS (could be better, but at least it is not projectiles flying through walls). So far in ESO you can override a lot of statistical number difference by properly timed actions.

But that is just me, others may have other opinion, I won't deny fact that 100+ millions of players love WoW.

tonemd

When people say "clicky", do you mean you have to click a button for each action? Or do you mean you have to click a button several times for one action?

Also, it would have really helped that video to have gameplay of someone who actually knew how to play. Or at least represented what the person was saying.

Donny_Vito

Not 100% sure what they mean by "clicky" but seeing as if you want to do top DPS you basically have to do two clicks per every attack (1 light attack, then instantly 1 skill), and that needs to be done every second, so in about a minute you could've done 120 clicks.....it does seem clicky. To me, it feels more clunky as I'm trying to animation cancel anything and everything possible. Either way, I still do it because I want to try and get top DPS for my group, so I guess it's possible I'm being hypocritical.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Talking mainly for magicka setups here, combat this patch feels more like a WoW-esque tab target system where you endlessly click on your action bar over and over again and less like an action combat MMO.

It's sad, I really hope to get over this dot hell patch asap expecting Dragonhold fixes this mess up.

fred4

Watching the video guy do his Mage's Fury / Curse, then light and heavy greatsword attacks "rotation" is painful. He lacks the most rudimentary understanding of buildcraft, such as the distinction between stamina and magicka builds and weapons, and neither does he use his skills correctly. Don't use the sorc execute at the start of your rotation, if takes you more than 4 seconds to kill something.

The only reason he gets by is because ZOS made overland so ridiculously easy, you don't need to learn. Maybe if he decided to tackle something difficult, such vMA or, god forbid, PvP (not at prime time ), he'd begin to appreciate the combat.

Sarannah

Personally I also hate bar-swapping, light-attack weaving and backbar buffs to remain active while switching weapons. I only use frontbar(5 skills) and stay in normal dungeons. My hardcore gaming days are over.
I get that some players want TESO to be hard, but at the same time... it is a game. I'm not going to do all that crap as a casual. I did try it for a few days, but it just sucks to do. Besides, dodging boss mechanics is much more important in my opinion.

Being unable to succeed in/to be excluded from veteran dungeons and trials because of this weird combat style is not good for the game overall. Imagine all those players who would do that type of content when it would be more accessible.
A second skillbar should not be a ~50% increase in dps/abilities. It just seems stupid, to have this behind a mechanic which in basically every known game is simply a secondary weapon style to use. Not an extension of your first skillbar.

To answer your question, I have made a weapon damage build which could do normal dungeons just fine. You do need the right skills though!

PS: On a semi related note: I also dislike the dungeons helms being only available in veteran dungeons. Dungeons which in my opinion should only be done by those fully equipped and skilled for them. Veteran dungeons are not where you should gear up, it is where you should already be geared. Making it a much more pleasant experience for everyone in there.
PSS: I do not animation cancel either.

StormeReigns

That video gave my dead mother stage 4 lung cancer.

WillhelmBlack

You're playing the wrong game then. ESO has actually THE best combat system out of any game I've ever played, admittedly it's not as good as it was 2 or 3 years ago but it's still the only reason I and many others still play it.

I don't do many PvE dungeons unless I have to so can't comment much on that. Fighting against any boss that just stands there swinging something around is boring in any game.

TelvanniWizard

Animation cancelling and La weaving suck.

tonemd

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Not 100% sure what they mean by "clicky" but seeing as if you want to do top DPS you basically have to do two clicks per every attack (1 light attack, then instantly 1 skill), and that needs to be done every second, so in about a minute you could've done 120 clicks.....it does seem clicky. To me, it feels more clunky as I'm trying to animation cancel anything and everything possible. Either way, I still do it because I want to try and get top DPS for my group, so I guess it's possible I'm being hypocritical.

Ahh. So its pressure to rapidly hit one click per action multiple times over long periods of time. To me that is the main reason I prefer this game over other MMOs where you seem to queue up your attacks and have them just play out, or you continue a particular action forever until you choose something else. My only gripe is when the game seems unresponsive and you loose that 1 to 1 feel.

The combat style and the bar swapping mechanic was obviously designed with consoles in mind. Perhaps ZOS should have emphasized controller play early on so that dedicated keyboard warriors would have known what to expect.

Red_Feather

2:30 is when the video starts talking about the combat.

Conduit0

That video is pure nonsense, it is abundantly clear from the gameplay alone that he lacks even a basic understanding of combat mechanics in ESO and so his opinion on the matter is mute.

MLGProPlayer

Combat isn't ideal, but I'll take it over tab target combat any day.

Ratzkifal

My thoughts on the videos:

• Who even says "Gee-dou-ble-U-two"? when "Guild-Wars-two" has less syllables...
• Why is that guy not using Uppercut when he has it on his bar? I feel like people who play like that have less credibility when complaining about the combat system.
• He is right about the enemies' AI being very stupid, which is indeed a shame.
• Why does he insist on recording all of this in one take when his stutters get really bad in the middle to the point it's hard to follow what he's saying?

Rungar

defensively eso is a great system.
anytime block, bash and roll dodge are really responsive.

the offensive component leaves much to be desired.

rager82b14_ESO

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

You're playing the wrong game then. ESO has actually THE best combat system out of any game I've ever played, admittedly it's not as good as it was 2 or 3 years ago but it's still the only reason I and many others still play it.

I don't do many PvE dungeons unless I have to so can't comment much on that. Fighting against any boss that just stands there swinging something around is boring in any game.

I mean you could be right, The combat is just so bad in this game for me that it ruins the whole game for me.

I MIGHT try a NightBlade pure weapon damage build, sneak around with a bow to see if I can one shot stuff from stealth with just pure Attack damage no skill.

Iskiab

BlackMadara wrote: »

Pve is very rotation based, just like it is in any mmorpg. The only differences between ESO and other games are that there are no CDs on skills and the animations are less flashy.

I get the feeling that people criticize the combat in ESO because the animations aren't extremely flashy. The combat in the game is the best that I've played, other than BDO. WoW, GW2, and Neverwinter are fine, but too clunky and slow imo. ESO gives a better feel for real combat. ESO could do better with more synergistic combos, I agree. Something like the DK flame lash power lash combo when setting up a root or stun.

Pvp combat is where ESO really shines. You have combos, like any real combat system. Similar to a jab-jab-cross or head tie-elbow pass-single leg shot. Any combat system, real life or game, is going to have dedicated combos that yield better results than just using the equivalent of light attacking.

If you play this game expecting it to be like skyrim combat or like other mmos, you will probably have a bad time. Put some time and effort into understanding the depth of combat in this game, and you will most likely enjoy it more.

The combat system is easily the worst part of ESO. Light attack weaving, animation cancelling, bash in rotations, short term buffs.

It’s easily why the game isn’t more popular. People who play don’t mind it, people who’ve tried and don’t like it quit so you don’t hear from them.

Wifeaggro13

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Yeah, combat in this game is clunky but if start trying to challenge the idea that combat is not amazing you'll get lots of negative feedback from the community. Most of us enjoy the game regardless, but still it's pretty obvious to admit this combat system has a lot of flaws.

canceling that completely destroys all the fun and amazing visuals that not only are but could have been.

So true. We've been trained to animation cancel everything and ZoS has reluctantly claimed this to be a feature when it just negates all the hard work that went into the art and animation of combat. The only problem is that we're pot-committed, as a gambling reference. We've already invested so much time and effort into this game that overhauling combat and animations is not an option. We're stuck with it, so we just have to pucker up and make the best out of it.

No it was a bug that they knew about from alpha. They acknowledged it as a bug and left it in game then they called it a feature once they had made it part of the dps meta and a requirement. to do minimum dps checks for end game you have to be medicore at it . Now weaving is also part of it.

Dracoqueen

I may be a bit biased but I always felt that ESO combat was a bit stiff. I came to ESO after playing Guild Wars 2 for about 3 years and the combat was the first thing that irked me. Yes the mouse clicking closely resembles how combat is in the original elder scrolls series but otherwise aside from pro moves like skill cancel etc it seams a little stale and repetitive.

Pevey

I completely agree. The skill times have gotten shorter and shorter, to the point that nightblade cloak defaults to 1 second. 1 second! That is less than the cool down, so silly. Not a fan of the twitchiness at all.

Iskiab

They designed a game with mechanics that need great ping: light attack weaving, block canceling, etc.. and then fell behind on optimization and server capacity, it’s a recipe for a disaster.

MartiniDaniels

Dracoqueen wrote: »

I may be a bit biased but I always felt that ESO combat was a bit stiff. I came to ESO after playing Guild Wars 2 for about 3 years and the combat was the first thing that irked me. Yes the mouse clicking closely resembles how combat is in the original elder scrolls series but otherwise aside from pro moves like skill cancel etc it seams a little stale and repetitive.

True, without animation cancelling ESO combat will be unbearably boring. I remember first month of play it was pure disaster to repeat same 3-4 abilities on dumb mobs, constantly running out of resources and attacks lack any "weight", only my devotion to previous games kept me from deleting ESO. Then in one moment I naturally discovered LA weaving (it was DK "free" chains weaved with ice staff light attacks, lol) and then bar swap and eventually block and roll-dodge cancel. With those things combat is dynamic and fluid, removing them will completely ruin combat in ESO.

Even those people who claim that they don't like / don't use animation cancel, they do it anyway naturally.